Article also mentioned that the Suicide Squad reshoots are to smooth out the third act and that Geoff Johns is involved.
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DC Cinematic Universe |OT| Superfriends with Benefits
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Smokey_Run
Member
Is this a stealth demotion of Zack and his production company in the DCEU? Cause it sure seems that way.
GringoSuave89
Banned
I'm sure he's still in the car, just not behind the wheel.
Smokey_Run
Member
He's being systematically eliminated at this point. I'm sure him and his production company will continue to be around, but it seems like they just took a serious hit with these two running DC films now. It doesn't help Affleck flexed his muscles for JL with the executive producer title, too.
Nah. It was never his ship to steer. He was just the the de facto figurehead of an existing trust where the default was "Do what the filmmaker wants."
This news means more studio involvement which means more push back against what filmmakers want... but hopefully with some street cred that the filmmakers will gladly listen to. It's one thing if an executive is telling you to do something, it's another if a storyteller is.
I'm a little worried this means too many cooks in the kitchen, but people forget that the MCU wasn't all rainbows and sunshine their first few films... there was a ton of internal strife, even until recently, to get to their well-oiled machine. Growing pains are to be expected.
I personally don't have a lot of confidence in Johns, but I'd rather see him take the brunt of being a figurehead than Snyder who isn't cut out for it.
No, you're just mischaracterizing his role to begin with. He was never a Feige. He was never dictating everyone else's story or what projects DC Films should greenlight. He was never behind the scenes cultivating talent and connections. He was never that person to begin with, so it's ridiculous to call it a demotion now. He was the guy in charge of 3 movies and he's still the guy in charge of three movies. That's basically the deal.
As long as Johns's major function is to shoot down completely batshit insane ideas, and I mean truly batshit insane stuff like some of the absolutely batshit insane decisions made in Batman v Superman, I'll be fine with Johns in an overseer role. But if he starts to get his fingers in the storytelling, then I'll start to be worried. His comic writing isn't the greatest stuff in the world and has all the subtleties of a sledgehammer.
Smokey_Run
Member
He shaped the universe and how it's connected. It's on HIS whiteboard in HIS office on the Warner Bros lot. He is the one who went to Affleck about Batman and sold him on it. His production company has their hands on all of the DC movies. Stop trying to undersell his importance on how this thing has gone to this point.
Again. De facto. He has nothing to say about the films that aren't his. They've made that clear from the beginning, since they've called it a sandbox and since they revealed the trust. He literally has not dictated a single thing to another director, they have always called him collaborator and always been allowed whatever toys they've wanted to play with.
Why have people said forever that DC "needs a Feige" even after the trust was revealed? Because no one but you thinks that was ever Zack's role.
Stop inventing the fall of a mastermind that never was.
I'm confused as to what this all means. Hopefully it turns out well, but the next three movies are pretty much set in stone, so I'm
not sure what I'm supposed to be expecting with these new appointments. I mean, SS is probably done already. WW is in post-production. JL is currently shooting and I don't see a guy like Johns walking on set and telling Snyder and Affleck what to do with their movie.
I'm..strongly leaning on this news being relatively meaningless in the short term. It's not going to change anything.
not sure what I'm supposed to be expecting with these new appointments. I mean, SS is probably done already. WW is in post-production. JL is currently shooting and I don't see a guy like Johns walking on set and telling Snyder and Affleck what to do with their movie.
I'm..strongly leaning on this news being relatively meaningless in the short term. It's not going to change anything.
johnnydrama
Banned
Are you guys telling me Jack Snider might not completely destroy DCEU after all?
This should be interesting going forward. While Snyder was helping shape things (his films are telling the first phase of DC's universe as far as the Trinity are concerned. Also wasn't it said that universe outline was done by him, Johns, and others. It wasn't him by himself.) he was never the person in charge. People need to understand that. This is why it was always wrong to compare him to Fiege at Marvel. He was never calling shots on Suicide Squad or Wonder Woman. It was clear he was not involved with the solo Batman film. Making sure things synced up yeah. WB never had anyone really equivalent for their DC films. Hell they never had an actual division controlling and overseeing the DC films. It looks like they do now and that's good thing. There was always the chance JL1 was Snyder's last film anyway. He was never said to be directing the second Justice League film when they announced it. Go back and look at that slate announcement. I would expect him to stay involved though. Man is amazing at action and visuals and you want all your films to benefit form that.
WB really should have had something like DC Films in place from the start. If BvS' reaction is what helped finally get this made then that's a good thing. Also Snyder's further involvement clearly depends on JL, especially under this additional involvement. If JL1 is received better and breaks 1 billion then he's likely going no where assuming he wants to keep doing this.
WB really should have had something like DC Films in place from the start. If BvS' reaction is what helped finally get this made then that's a good thing. Also Snyder's further involvement clearly depends on JL, especially under this additional involvement. If JL1 is received better and breaks 1 billion then he's likely going no where assuming he wants to keep doing this.
God yes, Geoff Johns is the guy who's best groomed to do all this. He is the one that has the knowledge and story telling background to pull this off. I hope, because he has a creative storyteller he doesn't just decide to do new things but also pulls from the vast legacy of DC Comics.
He hired someone for his movie... that's not underselling him, that's only confirming he's in charge of his movies. He's not the Fiege and there wasn't really one to begin with. He's shaped the universe (solely based on him having the only two movies on the DCEU) but he's not even close to being in charge of SS or WW or AM.
He hired someone for his movie... that's not underselling him, that's only confirming he's in charge of his movies. He's not the Fiege and there wasn't really one to begin with. He's shaped the universe (solely based on him having the only two movies on the DCEU) but he's not even close to being in charge of SS or WW or AM.
So I was under the assumption that Snyder was guiding the universe but now I know that he really wasn't in charge of everything. He is just a collaborator and probably took on a larger role when Nolan left, but he's only ever had a say in his movies.
It sucks that Snyder's name got worked over in this whole thing.
It sucks that Snyder's name got worked over in this whole thing.
Exactly. People were always trying to correct that but Snyder was an easy target so people kept ignoring or choosing to not learn what the actual setup was. Snyder was in charge of MoS, BvS, and JL1. He had and has nothing to do with Suicide Squad, Wonder Woman, Aquaman, or the solo Batman. His reach seems larger because the characters he cast will be in other films but it's really WB and the producers from them that work on these films with the ultimate say on those actors for the long term. They're the ones cutting the checks. Snyder is just the front man because his films were first.
Discotheque
Banned
i don't think snyder had any input in suicide squad. and it kind of shows. look at the disparity in designs for his trinity and the stuff ayer did to the likes of joker/harley/croc etc.
What did he mean by this?
Member
The idea that DC should be Marvel impacts even subconsciously by requiring us to approximate a 'Feige' for the sake of understanding the scope of WB's process. Snyder is not Feige. Feige doesnt exist
By nature of the movies he is making, Zack is the one shaping a vast swath of this DCU. He, with Justice League, is giving each character a background then pointing them in specific directions that align with the themes and story of that film. The gap in centralized universe knowledge necessitates that Zack be involved a bit in Wonder Woman or Aquaman since those films deal with the character he shaped (and its not like Patty Jenkins can watch Justice League to see what she should be aligning with - she needs Zack involved) rather than one a sole executive is guiding through a universe, like a Feige does. When WB fatcats call it a filmmaker-driven universe, that is really what they mean.
At the moment, Zack is driving with the most weight since Zack is Justice League. These new executive moves just corral him a bit to make sure whose next doesn't crash.
By nature of the movies he is making, Zack is the one shaping a vast swath of this DCU. He, with Justice League, is giving each character a background then pointing them in specific directions that align with the themes and story of that film. The gap in centralized universe knowledge necessitates that Zack be involved a bit in Wonder Woman or Aquaman since those films deal with the character he shaped (and its not like Patty Jenkins can watch Justice League to see what she should be aligning with - she needs Zack involved) rather than one a sole executive is guiding through a universe, like a Feige does. When WB fatcats call it a filmmaker-driven universe, that is really what they mean.
At the moment, Zack is driving with the most weight since Zack is Justice League. These new executive moves just corral him a bit to make sure whose next doesn't crash.
I believe that's not correct. In one of the recent interviews they confirmed it's the other way around. Wan tells Snyder what he wants in JL for Aquaman (because he's writing his movie after).
So Warner is consolidating around getting rid of Snyder which is a good thing, but does it matter of he already broke the toys for the other kids to play with.
Batman has killed which means it's a story that can't be told again.
Clark Kent is dead handicapping another Man of Steel film and keeping that Personal tie away from Superman.
And this dude ran through three story points and sorta wasted them.
Batman has killed which means it's a story that can't be told again.
Clark Kent is dead handicapping another Man of Steel film and keeping that Personal tie away from Superman.
And this dude ran through three story points and sorta wasted them.
Corpsepyre
Banned
They should have approached Morrison to oversee DCEU. Imagine if that had happened.
L
Lord Virgin
Unconfirmed Member
Sucks to be in the minority, love what Zack is doing with these movies.
beyond_death
Member
Yea I'm with you. But if these changes can help bring more financial/critical success then I'm all for it.
Something interesting was buried in the Hollywood Reporter's article about summer movie hits and flops....,
Being a trade I'm assuming that this could be something that a source at the studio told them rather than a line pulled from the ether. Interesting if true.
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/li...tem/biggest-grossers-summer-box-office-895239
IIRC Morrison was actually hired as a 'consultant' very early in the DCU days (before Green Lantern even?) and had an office on the Warner Bros lot.
Being a trade I'm assuming that this could be something that a source at the studio told them rather than a line pulled from the ether. Interesting if true.
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/li...tem/biggest-grossers-summer-box-office-895239
IIRC Morrison was actually hired as a 'consultant' very early in the DCU days (before Green Lantern even?) and had an office on the Warner Bros lot.
Johns has a producer credit on Green Lantern and Batman v Superman. I personally have a hard time believing he's anything but a yes man when it comes to the movie stuff but hey, keep the hope alive I guess.
BadAss2961
Member
Should happen unless critics maul it.
Corpsepyre
Banned
People are going to love Jared Leto, Margot Robbie and Will Smith in the same film. I'm sure SS will make good money.
Future Foundation
Member
This sounds like he's got more power on these than the other movies. (Certainly more than BvS at least, if the stuff about his Suicide Squad/WW involvement was true.)
Even then, it's still a tall order. Deadpool did crazy numbers.
BadAss2961
Member
Deadpool did crazy numbers for Deadpool. Those numbers would be above par for a Suicide Squad film that markets Joker and Batman along with Will Smith and some young stars. If the movie is received well, it'll go beyond that and maybe top BvS too.
I think a Deadpool equivalent for Suicide Squad would have it crossing a billion.
Yeah but we are like twelve of us only.
Do you follow box office numbers at all? Crossing a billion is not easy nor is it expected for a movie like Suicide Squad, even with great reception. For reference, Deadpool domestically beat every Batman movie except TDK and TDKR, beat GotG, Spider-man 3, Iron man, Iron man 2, BvS, and every single X-men movie ever.
Suicide Squad will not break $800M baring it being a freakish breakout hit. It's foolish to apply a law of summation to these movies just because it has Joker, Batman, and Will Smith. Batman's star power failed BvS and Will Smith hasn't been a draw for years.
Boombloxer
Member
Or it sucks.
Margot and Will already have good chemistry; so long as it hits the same lines that Deadshot and Harley did in Assault on Arkham, that should be a high point.
No, Deadpool did crazy numbers for a superhero film period. No one thought it would make anywhere near that much.
SS to me is more Guardians with a darker tone, which is fine.
But the trailer doesn't scream this is a Batman v Joker film; it screams something else, which is good, because I'd like something different. It's basically Will Smith, Margot with some Joker thrown in.
DecoReturns
Member
You can't really make claims about box office results until a month before movie releases. Thats when people start talking, interviews, reviews, hype building up. Deadpool was a surprise hit, but it started to show a couple weeks before. Right now it looks like a 800milish picture to you, but that could change.
I mean, Deadpool was a freakish breakout hit. Your also applying a law of assumption. Personally I feel it will do MoS numbers, but thats now. When the marketing it kicked to full gear I could change my opinion.
BadAss2961
Member
No, at least billion+ is crazy numbers for a superhero film these days. The idea that Batman v Superman is well ahead of Deadpool and considered a disappointment should tell you this.
And Suicide Squad is no GotG. It's a lazy, surface-level at best comparison.
That's what I'm saying!
Discotheque
Banned
Yeah only 5 out of the 20+ comic book movies this century have made it past a billion
Not everything is gonna reach that. Even the big brands.
DecoReturns
Member
It confuses me, because you don't think Suicide Squad will do over 800 even with word of mouth.
In this day and age, that matters the most. Great reviews, people love it will make it money. thats how Deadpool succeeded, GoTG as well.
People love to jump on the Bandwagon.
Edit: Still hold on my MoS numbers
Man of Steel did $668M WW. GoTG did $773M.
Over $800M would be ridiculously good for a new IP even with Batman making an appearance.
Yeah, Pikachu with the machine gun is right!
It has to have broad appeal as well. Deadpool was a running internet meme, amazing reviews and fantastic word of mouth pushed Mad Max to "only" $380M
BadAss2961
Member
That's the fucking point, guek. No one expected Deadpool to do anywhere near as well as it did, but it happened.
Suicide Squad grossing those same numbers would be nice, but nothing extraordinary like it was for Deadpool. A freakish breakout hit for Squad considering the players involved puts it near the billion mark.
Boombloxer
Member
Not really. Guek already mentioned this, but you're really quite wrong:
To elaborate, BvS' expectations weren't "Deadpool" numbers. They were at least "last Batman", which made a billion. There really aren't that many Superhero films that make a billion. Iron Man 3, both Avengers, TDK, TDKR, CW will join it this weekend, and that's about it. None of the Spider-man films did, nor any of the earlier Batmans.
Combining Batman and Superman is a logical assumption/hope of a film that can make a billion dollars. 2 icons go at it/team-up? after years of never being seen together?
Much different from some 4th wall assassin asshole who isn't really an X-man. I loved Deadpool, and it overperformed.
You're talking nonsense. SS' best outcome is guardians. It's not hitting a billion--especially now.
To be clear, 770M is perfectly fine and a great success.
Uh, not really, it's the same set-up. Guardians is lighter, but a group of anti-heros/villains on an adventure? Pretty straightforward.
You're letting your bias color the basic set-up of the film.
Yeezus H. Christ
Banned
SS reaching a billion wouldn't happen even if all the stars aligned for the film. That benchmark really is being underestimated nowadays.
Future Foundation
Member
Boombloxer
Member
No shit. Where did I say its exclusive to Guardians?
My point is that the 2 films have the same set-up.
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