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[evil solrac v3.0]

nah. that's 50/50 on him meeting them in the present. though bruce wayne was spotted on set too and i don't really see any room for him in flashbacks, just batman.

either way though joker is all but guaranteed in batman, maybe they'll throw a suicide squad villain in there too for him to squash for a minute.

Animated movie had quite a lot of batman, but trailers for the movie don`t give that impression at all.

ok, thanks for the clarification. I can see this developing into a problem as lots of fans will expect the movie to feature Batman heavily and will have formed a set of expectations that the movie won't meet. I hope I'm wrong though...

 

[guek]

Superman's character in Returns was definitely a problem for me. Holy shit I hated that Superman, lol.

Superman Returns' Superman was a creepy stalker, dude was pretty messed up in the head.

It's not Snyder's interpretation, if it was we wouldn't have weekly MoS threads. The fanbase itself is the problem.


Boring isn't Return's problem. The problem with Returns Superman, and by extension Donner Superman, is that he's a creepy Sociopath, that will mind rape and kill people at his leisure, but is forgiven because he smiles and quips, and his enemies will take the time to not terrorize the populace while Superman saves people.

I should have been more clear. There are definitely problems with Returns Superman's character but that's generally not the reason why people didn't like it. Blaming the fanbase seems like an easy out when in truth, we haven't had a "good" Superman movie with broad appeal since Superman II. Make a great movie and the "not muh superman" type of complaints will whither away.

 

[broncobuster]

I think people don't like the Snyder version because it hits too close to home. People want escapism and he's not giving it to you with Superman. People know deep down inside, that's exactly what the world would look like if someone like Superman showed up tomorrow, if not worse.

I'm reminded of the line in Winter Soldier. We take the world for what it is; not how we want it to be. Now, the execution is lacking imo. But the intent of the films is very intriguing.

I suppose there's an argument of whether you do it with Superman. Unbreakable is a great film not tied down by all the baggage. For me, most of my favorite comic stories are elseworld, so I'm all for taking these films to those places.

 

[a916]

studios only get 50% of the box office take (less in countries like China), production budget would be atleast $300m and add $100m of marketing and your already at $400m

$800m gross for JL would be a disaster

You're not taking into account any sort of sponsorship, product placement, and tax breaks. Also Roven was asked and he said JL won't cost as much as BVS and will cost less because of stuff and work that needed to be done for BVS. Also a movie like this moves merchandise as well so not all of it banks on ticket sales.

Also, I feel like that marketing budget is pretty low (but I have no idea what they are on these projects)

 

[Discotheque]

I think people don't like the Snyder version because it hits too close to home. People want escapism and he's not giving it to you with Superman. People know deep down inside, that's exactly what the world would look like if someone like Superman showed up tomorrow, if not worse.

there's multiple approaches to do the god on earth thing for superman without neutering his presence like MCU does with thor.

snyder went with the awe inspiring and kind of unsettling god on earth while donner/singer went the more majestic and graceful approach. they both look like higher powers at the end of the day but compare this:
https://youtu.be/HIMbqMmkZCI?t=3m35s

to the montage in Batman v Superman where Superman is rescuing the shuttle and everything else. They're going for the same thing but being executed differently. The music also makes a huge difference too.

 

[Ahasverus]

I don't find Donner's superman "Majestic" at all. It's a bit goofy and everything. Now, Singer did try his hardest to paint it in the most regal way possible, but then, the whole movie looked like the idealized town of Fallout 3.

 

[Discotheque]

all zimmer needs to do is drop like 3 notes from the williams theme into his track in Justice League and you got a god tier resurrection. seriously there are so many moments ripe for being boosted by it and we get boring drums instead.

i don't even recall them using his Man of Steel theme (with the strings) in BvS. big disappointment. imagine hearing just a small sample of the old Williams theme as superman is regenerating from the nuclear attack. shit would have been epic.

they better do something amazing for his score when he is resurrected and comes in to help save the day in Justice League.

edit: really ahasversus?! old superman lifted shit like it was nothing to him, no physical strain on his face. he was very graceful, look at how the routh one puts down that daily planet globe for instance. you don't see that kind of presence in the snyder ones, cavill would be screaming as soon as he caught it lmao

 

[IconGrist]

all zimmer needs to do is drop like 3 notes from the williams theme into his track in Justice League and you got a god tier resurrection. seriously there are so many moments ripe for being boosted by it and we get boring drums instead.

i don't even recall them using his Man of Steel theme (with the strings) in BvS. big disappointment. imagine hearing just a small sample of the old Williams theme as superman is regenerating from the nuclear attack. shit would have been epic.

they better do something amazing for his score when he is resurrected and comes in to help save the day in Justice League.

Well I'd settle for just his theme to play while he's doing some heroic shit. The only time it played in MoS was in the credits and it wasn't in BvS at all. Why compose the fuckin' thing and not even use it?

 

[a916]

Well I'd settle for just his theme to play while he's doing some heroic shit. The only time it played in MoS was in the credits and it wasn't in BvS at all. Why compose the fuckin' thing and not even use it?

Am I remembering wrong but is it not in the moment where

Spoiler

he's telling Lois she's her world and his death and then his funeral at the Kent farm?

 

[Smokey_Run]

there's multiple approaches to do the god on earth thing for superman without neutering his presence like MCU does with thor.

snyder went with the awe inspiring and kind of unsettling god on earth while donner/singer went the more majestic and graceful approach. they both look like higher powers at the end of the day but compare this:
https://youtu.be/HIMbqMmkZCI?t=3m35s

to the montage in Batman v Superman where Superman is rescuing the shuttle and everything else. They're going for the same thing but being executed differently. The music also makes a huge difference too.

I'm talking about how the people of Earth react to something like Superman. Snyder's version is probably what would happen, if not worse, if Superman showed up tomorrow in our world. People don't like that, because it doesn't allow for escapism, a big reason people go to the movies in the first place. Snyder shined the spotlight on our ugly society and some people can't handle it.

 

[shingi70]

Can we just not potryal Superman as a god then. Captain Atom, or Vision I can see, but Superman being so detached is a mistake.

 

[unholyrevenger72]

studios only get 50% of the box office take (less in countries like China), production budget would be atleast $300m and add $100m of marketing and your already at $400m

$800m gross for JL would be a disaster

studios get way more than 50% on the US box office take in the first couple of weeks of showing, it does gradually taper off week after week, which is why there are theaters that specialize in showing 2 month old movies at a discount price.

 

[IconGrist]

Am I remembering wrong but is it not in the moment where

Spoiler

he's telling Lois she's her world and his death and then his funeral at the Kent farm?

The somber portion plays. I mean the bombastic end.

 

[guek]

studios get way more than 50% on the US box office take in the first couple of weeks of showing, it does gradually taper off week after week, which is why there are theaters that specialize in showing 2 month old movies at a discount price.

I believe that's no longer standard practice because of how front loaded BO performance has become.

 

[unholyrevenger72]

I should have been more clear. There are definitely problems with Returns Superman's character but that's generally not the reason why people didn't like it. Blaming the fanbase seems like an easy out when in truth, we haven't had a "good" Superman movie with broad appeal since Superman II. Make a great movie and the "not muh superman" type of complaints will whither away.

You can't make a Superman Movie with broad appeal because the fan base is so fractured. "Not muh superman" won't go away because "muh Superman" is a determining factor in the quality of the movie to people. Superman is so Iconic that everyone has an opinion on him and has an Idea of what he should be.

 

[guek]

You can't make a Superman Movie with broad appeal because the fan base is so fractured. "Not muh superman" won't go away because "muh Superman" is a determining factor in the quality of the movie to people. Superman is so Iconic that everyone has an opinion on him and has an Idea of what he should be.

Nah. Just make a good movie. If what you were saying were true, there'd be no Superman stories with universal praise. That's simply not the case.

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

Nah. Just make a good movie. If what you were saying were true, there'd be no Superman stories with universal praise. That's simply not the case.

there's a faction that hates all-Star Superman. you can't please everybody.

 

[Ninjimbo]

I think people don't like the Snyder version because it hits too close to home. People want escapism and he's not giving it to you with Superman. People know deep down inside, that's exactly what the world would look like if someone like Superman showed up tomorrow, if not worse.

This is what I generally believe. Snyder's Superman is too real for some people. Superman has been the perfect little Boy Scout for such a long time that any deviation from that is going to be a hard sell. Fortunately, I think a lot of people like Snyder's Superman. At least, that's been my experience in just talking about BvS and MoS with other people.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

all zimmer needs to do is drop like 3 notes from the williams theme into his track in Justice League and you got a god tier resurrection. seriously there are so many moments ripe for being boosted by it and we get boring drums instead.

i don't even recall them using his Man of Steel theme (with the strings) in BvS. big disappointment. imagine hearing just a small sample of the old Williams theme as superman is regenerating from the nuclear attack. shit would have been epic.

they better do something amazing for his score when he is resurrected and comes in to help save the day in Justice League.

edit: really ahasversus?! old superman lifted shit like it was nothing to him, no physical strain on his face. he was very graceful, look at how the routh one puts down that daily planet globe for instance. you don't see that kind of presence in the snyder ones, cavill would be screaming as soon as he caught it lmao

The MoS superman theme was pretty fucking awesome, but I thought Zimmer retired from superhero stuff?

 

[Error]

JL is shooting and we haven't seen a single set pic yet? Weird.

 

[IconGrist]

JL is shooting and we haven't seen a single set pic yet? Weird.

Snyder said most of JL would be filmed inside a studio. He really only releases official photos if there's a chance you'll get some awful cam pic of something unrevealed. Aquaman was an exception.

 

[Effect]

JL is shooting and we haven't seen a single set pic yet? Weird.

They're suppose to be doing a lot of shooting within WB's Leavesden studio in England. They're also suppose to be filming outside of the studio as well in London and Iceland but the studio stuff is being done first I believe which is why there have been no leaks. Collider had a report on it back in February.

http://collider.com/justice-league-movie-filming-dates-locations-zack-snyder/

I think once they start doing outside filming that's when we'll see see something official to get ahead of unauthorized shots or at Comic Con. Which ever comes first. I'd be very surprised if we don't get a teaser of some kind at Comic Con. Even if it's just made for Comic Con and not true film footage like the stare down between Batman and Superman they originally showed.

 

[unholyrevenger72]

All dat green screen.

 

[Effect]

If they're going to be using a lot of green screen I wonder what that's like on the budget? WB's CGI work for MoS and BvS was great. I don't have any concern with the quality. They need to make sure things don't look flat of course. Does that make a film more or less expensive though?

I know physical sets aren't cheap. Especially if they're one time use and large. Which is why if you're doing outside filming you want to use locations that already exist and add to it. That's what Wonder Woman was doing but depending on the story that might not be doable at all with Justice League considering the powers that will be on display and how far some of these characters can move in the middle of a fight.

I would like to know what pushed the budget for BvS so high as well.

 

[Smokey_Run]

All dat green screen.

It's going to bug the shit out of me so much, especially with city streets and such.

But yeah, as others have said, most of it is being shot on sound stages outside London. Zack doesn't want to deal with the logistics of shutting down city streets, etc.

 

[IconGrist]

If they're going to be using a lot of green screen I wonder what that's like on the budget? WB's CGI work for MoS and BvS was great. I don't have any concern with the quality. They need to make sure things don't look flat of course. Does that make a film more or less expensive though?

I know physical sets aren't cheap. Especially if they're one time use and large. Which is why if you're doing outside filming you want to use locations that already exist and add to it. That's what Wonder Woman was doing but depending on the story that might not be doable at all with Justice League considering the powers that will be on display and how far some of these characters can move in the middle of a fight.

I would like to know what pushed the budget for BvS so high as well.

A lot of work for JL is done because it was done during BvS which likely inflated its budget. I doubt JL's budget will meet BvS's budget.

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

too bad about filming in sound stages. the opening Scene of the Supes and Zod fight From Bruce's perspective was great.

 

[Effect]

A lot of work for JL is done because it was done during BvS which likely inflated its budget. I doubt JL's budget will meet BvS's budget.

I was wondering about that. If Snyder and crew did some production work for JL while they were filming? Was this ever said by someone or just connecting dots?

 

[Smokey_Run]

I was wondering about that. If Snyder and crew did some production work for JL while they were filming? Was this ever said by someone or just connecting dots?

I wanna say there was an article stating Zack was already deep into preproduction on JL late last year. It might have been one of those countless EW articles on BvS where the info was just a one-off sentence. I could see WB just trying to bundle some of that into the BvS budget.

 

[IconGrist]

I was wondering about that. If Snyder and crew did some production work for JL while they were filming? Was this ever said by someone or just connecting dots?

It's basically how Marvel keeps their budgets down this far into it. A lot of reused assets created early on. Do a lot of the early work during BvS and you reduce costs per movie later on down the line.

 

[Firemind]

All dat green screen.

Could be worse.

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

Could be worse.

I don't get it, what am I missing?

 

[Tabby]

All dat green screen.

That's what's having me worried honestly. It didn't even look that good in BvS.

 

[guek]

there's a faction that hates all-Star Superman. you can't please everybody.

Of course you can't but that doesn't mean you can't please most people. Returns, MoS, and BvS all failed to do that despite each of those having its own group of fans.

Blaming the fandom is just an excuse to validate your own tastes, because that means fans are the ones that are failing, not the movies. Superman movies have failed to achieve good receptions because they've been divisive, flawed movies. Blaming the fandom means blaming the source material but that's a bunch of BS.

It's possible to make a movie with a likable Superman. It's possible to make a Superman movie that's exciting to watch. Snyder and Singer didn't accomplish these basic tasks very well and it shows in how their movies are discussed and remembered. Superman, as a character, is not inherently unlikable or unrelatable or unexciting but his last 3 movies have been.

 

[Dead]

Metropolis and Gotham skylines:

Very coo. Perfectly captures each city. Wish they could have had a few shots of the skylines in the film.

 

[SENPAIatLARGE]

This is what I generally believe. Snyder's Superman is too real for some people. Superman has been the perfect little Boy Scout for such a long time that any deviation from that is going to be a hard sell. Fortunately, I think a lot of people like Snyder's Superman. At least, that's been my experience in just talking about BvS and MoS with other people.

Y'all talking like Captain America movies don't exist. They explicitly show that you can have an honestly good hero who's determined to do the right thing without making him look like a cartoon character. Cap feels real in and out of costume, but can still the all American hero he's known for.

Just imagine for a minute that Superman acted like Cap in both movies a while going through the same struggles.

 

[Ninjimbo]

Y'all talking like Captain America movies don't exist. They explicitly show that you can have an honestly good hero who's determined to do the right thing without making him look like a cartoon character. Cap feels real in and out of costume, but can still the all American hero he's known for.

Just imagine for a minute that Superman acted like Cap in both movies a while going through the same struggles.

I don't know...I really hate The First Avenger. It's one of those movies that I wish just wouldn't exist because it was such an awful idea. The fact that Winter Soldier had to call back to that movie to explain away a plot point nearly ruined Winter Soldier for me.

To be frank, I don't know anything about Steve Rogers. My only exposure to Captain America prior to the MCU was in an episode of X-Men Evolution. Whenever the MCU movies take time to focus on Cap, I start zoning out because I feel that his conflicts are too bland and too contrived to take seriously. One of the reasons why I haven't watched Civil War yet is because I know it's a Cap movie and I don't really care for his particular baggage.

While with Superman, at least in Snyder's movies, I feel his struggle. I see the responsibility he has to carry and how it conflicts with what he personally wants.

I guess I just find the struggle with godhood more interesting than supersoldier from WW2.

 

[BadAss2961]

The point Smokey was making about Snyder's Superman is that they put him (the most iconic superhero there is) in a cynical world like ours. What he's going through at this point in his story is exactly what he'd be going through in real life. Some just don't like the execution, which is fair. But there's also some that want a fully realized Superman right out the gate without the journey. Then there's some that nitpick the mayhem he deals with.

Cap's in Marvel land where everything's hunky-dory by the end of each movie. Consequences are almost nil, but when they do happen, they don't stick. No one cares to get anal about collateral damage or how many dudes he wrecked. Marvel can pretty much do anything they want with their characters because they're just now making them mainstream for the first time.

 

[Ashhong]

The point Smokey was making about Snyder's Superman is that they put him (the most iconic superhero there is) in a cynical world like ours. What he's going through at this point in his story is exactly what he'd be going through in real life. Some just don't like the execution, which is fair. But there's also some that want a fully realized Superman right out the gate without the journey. Then there's some that nitpick the mayhem he deals with.

Cap's in Marvel land where everything's hunky-dory by the end of each movie. Consequences are almost nil, but when they do happen, they don't stick. No one cares to get anal about collateral damage or how many dudes he wrecked. Marvel can pretty much do anything they want with their characters because they're just now making them mainstream for the first time.

This is a good point.

I wonder in say, 30 years when they do reboots and whatnot, if people will complain saying "Not muh CAP!"

Although I imagine Marvel will have such a tight grip over their franchise that this may never happen. Will they continue the MCU for decades to come? Phasing out characters, putting in new people to take over existing roles like Tony?

 

[clay_ghost]

This is a good point.

I wonder in say, 30 years when they do reboots and whatnot, if people will complain saying "Not muh CAP!"

Although I imagine Marvel will have such a tight grip over their franchise that this may never happen. Will they continue the MCU for decades to come? Phasing out characters, putting in new people to take over existing roles like Tony?

They have so many possible new characters that they can wait for decades before they go back to Ironman and thor etc if they maintain the standard of each movie. Antman and GotG are good examples of unknown. Marvel properties that audiences enjoyed Marvel can throw out anything new and not recast and reboot for a long time as long as the ongoing movies are good.

 

[unholyrevenger72]

This is a good point.

I wonder in say, 30 years when they do reboots and whatnot, if people will complain saying "Not muh CAP!"

Although I imagine Marvel will have such a tight grip over their franchise that this may never happen. Will they continue the MCU for decades to come? Phasing out characters, putting in new people to take over existing roles like Tony?

"Not muh Tony Stank" will be more than likely be the complaint. Let's face it should've been called Iron Man 4: Civil War, based on performance and screen time.

 

[hamchan]

This is a good point.

I wonder in say, 30 years when they do reboots and whatnot, if people will complain saying "Not muh CAP!"

Although I imagine Marvel will have such a tight grip over their franchise that this may never happen. Will they continue the MCU for decades to come? Phasing out characters, putting in new people to take over existing roles like Tony?

I'll be honest, I would probably complain if the Cap after Chris Evans is an asshole like the Ultimate universe Cap.

 

[SJRB]

The point Smokey was making about Snyder's Superman is that they put him (the most iconic superhero there is) in a cynical world like ours. What he's going through at this point in his story is exactly what he'd be going through in real life. Some just don't like the execution, which is fair. But there's also some that want a fully realized Superman right out the gate without the journey. Then there's some that nitpick the mayhem he deals with.

Cap's in Marvel land where everything's hunky-dory by the end of each movie. Consequences are almost nil, but when they do happen, they don't stick. No one cares to get anal about collateral damage or how many dudes he wrecked. Marvel can pretty much do anything they want with their characters because they're just now making them mainstream for the first time.

I wish I could thumb up posts.

 

[Discotheque]

The point Smokey was making about Snyder's Superman is that they put him (the most iconic superhero there is) in a cynical world like ours. What he's going through at this point in his story is exactly what he'd be going through in real life. Some just don't like the execution, which is fair. But there's also some that want a fully realized Superman right out the gate without the journey. Then there's some that nitpick the mayhem he deals with.

Cap's in Marvel land where everything's hunky-dory by the end of each movie. Consequences are almost nil, but when they do happen, they don't stick. No one cares to get anal about collateral damage or how many dudes he wrecked. Marvel can pretty much do anything they want with their characters because they're just now making them mainstream for the first time.

it was an interesting approach for sure, but i've had enough of nancy grace shitting on everybody. keep her out of the next dc movie.

 

[unholyrevenger72]

Of course you can't but that doesn't mean you can't please most people. Returns, MoS, and BvS all failed to do that despite each of those having its own group of fans.

Blaming the fandom is just an excuse to validate your own tastes, because that means fans are the ones that are failing, not the movies. Superman movies have failed to achieve good receptions because they've been divisive, flawed movies. Blaming the fandom means blaming the source material but that's a bunch of BS.

It's possible to make a movie with a likable Superman. It's possible to make a Superman movie that's exciting to watch. Snyder and Singer didn't accomplish these basic tasks very well and it shows in how their movies are discussed and remembered. Superman, as a character, is not inherently unlikable or unrelatable or unexciting but his last 3 movies have been.

Again you miss the point, there is no Objective way to create some thing that people like or think is good. Each director puts on screen what he/she thinks is good or what people will like. It is then up to the viewer to decide whether or not the movie is good or bad. Because whether or not a movie is good or bad is determined by that persons taste, it is not a failure of the movie, and at the same time it is not failure of the viewer if he/she thinks it's bad. For example has a piece of Broccoli failed, simply because the person eating it doesn't like Broccoli?

 

[IconGrist]

I'd argue that MoS wasn't a flawed movie. I don't think it was. I think the depiction of the characters was divisive but the movie itself was put together as competently as any movie. That's a distinction I think gets missed a lot of the time. The characters were written and portrayed consistently throughout. The plot was straight forward without any major plot holes, the editing and pacing was typical, the imagery and tone were constant, and it followed your typical 3 act structure.

If you think back most of the complaints about MoS dealt with the portrayal of the characters. These are a matter of expectations based on an individual's familiarity with them. A lot of that continued in BvS which is compounded on top of the movie being chopped up so the plot and pacing suffered. BvS because of these last two major factors is a pretty flawed movie and then you throw in the not so popular character portrayals and and ta da, 29% RT.

TL;DR - MoS wasn't divisive because of the quality of the movie but the depictions of the characters. If you liked them the movie works, if you didn't it doesn't.

EDIT: Also, this is awesome...

https://www.instagram.com/p/BFaB3tbFVHv/

 

[gamz]

too bad about filming in sound stages. the opening Scene of the Supes and Zod fight From Bruce's perspective was great.

If done right you aren't going to know the difference. The entire airport scene in Civil War is all CGI.

http://www.theverge.com/2016/5/12/1...l-war-cgi-visual-effects-spider-man-interview

Look at Jungle Book. filmed entirely in a warehouse. It's stunning.

 

[thehypocrite]

It's there such a thing as a flawless movie? There's approximations, but even a masterpiece has flaws. So I don't particularly understand that criticism.

 

[Yeezus H. Christ]

Metropolis and Gotham skylines:

Very coo. Perfectly captures each city. Wish they could have had a few shots of the skylines in the film.

Nice. Subtle, but you can see the difference.

 

[antovolk]

This shot actually was in a promo featurette but not the film. Maybe in the UC?

Also idk if this was mentioned yet but an interesting deleted extension of the Mexico rescue scene:

“There’s a fun conversation — we filmed it, it’s not in the cut — but there’s a conversation when [Superman] saves the girl from the garment factory, we had a line where a guy goes, but now all the garment factory owners, they’re not concerned with safety because they just figure Superman will show up to save them if the building catches on fire,” the director says. “It’s sort of a catch-22 to being the ex machina, being the hand of God: the hand of God can’t be everywhere the same time. You’re headed for a fall.”

http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2016/03/21/zack-snyder-on-how-batman-v-superman-is-like-watchmen/