lol This is patently false. Bleepey's as welcome here as anyone but we constantly call him out when he's being too much.
Now if you had said Lord Zimmer or BadAss you might have had a case. We just let them run amok.
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DC Extended Universe |OT2| A League of xX-=DaMaGeD=-Xx Gentlemen
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lol This is patently false. Bleepey's as welcome here as anyone but we constantly call him out when he's being too much.
Now if you had said Lord Zimmer or BadAss you might have had a case. We just let them run amok.
Fucking Icon called him out on it just a few posts up lol.
But yea, why were his points on Superman so shit?
I've only noticed two people call him out and you one of em.
None of it actually gives reason why people don't like Superman. It gives an opinion about what the movie is doing, but no reason why Superman is bland, boring, stale piece of wonder bread
You won't find a lot of them here. Not everyone who helps keep a leash on Bleepey is an active member of this thread and most active users in this thread tend to stay out of DCEU related threads in OT.
Leo_Sagittarius
Member
Well your crusade against this faceless message board member is admirable, I have to admit. I wouldn't have bothered with it to be honest. Hats off to you.
But at this point might aswell just ignore it, because in spite of his marvel remarks that doesn't invalidate the fact that Bleepey brought up some damn good points in his post.
In my mindset, it does invalidate you when you can't say yout piece without bringing up something that ain't got anything to do with what ya saying.
Like if you're talking about LeBron's greatness and then just have to say "Kobe ain't shit" you are invalidated
Smokey_Run
Member
Are you talking about why people don't like Superman in the cinematic universe?
No, audience wise. And even if we talkin in universe, it seems like he's just helping people before Africa and the framing. Like he's trying to get goodwill from the Zod fight, makes sense why people are still iffy about him.
Because that wasn't the point of his post. He was giving reasons as to why this Superman IS Superman. Like he says in the last line, you are ignoring all of that because he doesn't smile and have a specific attitude that you deem necessary.
I think what it boils down to for me is that Snyder's Superman is too much of a blank slate. I'm not sure if this is a fault of Snyder's direction, Cavill's performances, or the writing (or likely, a combination of all three) but this depiction of Superman rings hollow to me, insofar as he feels like a hollow character. I feel like there were a lot of missed opportunities in the movie -- like the scene where the Dia de los Muertos crowd swarms around him, or when he arrives at the Capitol to give his side of the story (ah but fuck that shit, let's blow up the scene instead!) -- where Snyder, Cavill, et al. could have their Superman actually speak up and stand up for himself, fill in who he is, what he believes in, why he does what he does, etc. All of Clark's motivations and beliefs are told to him -- by Jor-El, by Jonathan, by Martha, by Lois, and, on the antagonist side, by Bruce and Lex -- so this Superman, to me, feels more like a collection of exposition delivered by supporting characters.
The Capitol hearing scene would have been a great opportunity for Clark, in his own words, to really define his character and put forth an ideology that clashes with the grim cyncism of Bruce and Lex and the others. Instead, the scene is cut short by an explosion without, iirc, Clark uttering a single word. It's my main problem with this movie's (and Snyder's) depiction and treatment of Superman in a nutshell.
Certain things are the character. You can take liberities in a lot of places, but not in a lot of other places. Superman's character regressed for me with BvS. There was no development, only regression. And like, Cavill is a charmimg funny guy! He's just boring as hell when he's Superman. He's a great Clark tho.
Lol
I agree with this. There were many moments where I felt Superman could have spoken up or done something that would have fit both the movie and the typical Superman character. For whatever reason they decided to forgo all of that and make him this mysterious dude. However..
The main problem is that they dragged this arc on for way too long. He is still inexperienced and lost in this movie, and that is your issue with it. He's doing Superman things, but he's just not quite at that Superman point yet. But to say he regressed is pushing it imo. Especially by the last act of the movie.
Smokey_Run
Member
I've said before that in this thread I have a lot less knowledge about some of this stuff because I've never cracked open a comic. What I've learned is what has seeped through to the mainstream via films, games, and some of the animated series I watched from time to time when I was a kid after school.
When I mention to Superman to people on my level of understanding, and those under me, I'm met with "Superman is boring because he is a god and nothing can hurt him. What's the point?" The power creep over the decades hasn't helped.
Good post. I definitely agree. What makes it even more baffling is the release of photos showing Superman standing behind a bunch of mics at the Capitol, but it's never in the movie.
We can agree on some things. By the end of the movie he is definitely doing more Superman things, but none of it seemed earned. Like the whole Death arc is happening way too quickly. Really Batman v Superman happened too quickly, should have been after a JL movie.
As much as I hate that term, "earned", I will agree that it came a bit too soon. It works for me, but it could have worked better if they had progressed his redemption arc a little earlier in the movie
And theres no way to put the BvS that we got after JL, unless you change everything and turn it into TDKR or something.
I'd be perfectly fine with that. Like, give me time to care more about Superman. BvS is a Batman movie more than anything. I wanted a Man of Steel sequel with Brainiac or Metallo with a lead in to Wonder Woman, finish with Batman, then JL with an intro to Flash, Aquaman, GL, and Manhunter there. Then do whatever from there.
Except for the Injustice storyline because no
Thank you. It's been said before but good to see it said again. It's one of the big issues I have when people like to praise the Donner films, especially Superman II and then go onto crap on Snyder's version. I guess for some people as long as Superman has that stupid grin on his face as the default form and only rarely ever show another emotion they're fine with him. I say that because he does some very questionable stuff in those Donner films but no one ever complains because because of that stupid smile.
Same when he showed up the CW Supergirl. People praise when he shows up but to a point. I notice how they rarely ever talk about the rest of the episode and scenes where he's not doing that Reeves impression but acting like his own character. No overwhelming praise they can use to hit at MoS/BvS. The scenes where he's actually interesting as a character (as Clark when he's with Kara, manipulating Cat Grant, meeting Lena Luthor, interacting with the DEO, or when he puts his fist right through one of the Metallos chest seemingly killing him when him and Manhunter team up, or how he blows right through drones without any care about where they fall in the middle of the city) and the reasons why he should perhaps show back up again.
This is why I've always been under the impression that most people today (especially if they didn't read comics or watched the cartoons) like the idea of Superman not him as an actual character with the ups and downs. The symbol and smile. Saving the cat in the tree. None of the other stuff that has actually made him exist for so long because he wouldn't have if all there was to him was the smile and him being super strong. He could do all the things we expect Superman to do but unless he has that 24/7 smile it doesn't matter to some people. He can't have a range of emotions that are determined by the situations he's in. I'll keep saying that until I see differences in what people are saying.
Hold up what range did he have in the movie?
Leo_Sagittarius
Member
To be honest It doesn't really mattered if Superman died on the second movie or 5th movie of a ongoing cinematic universe with yet another 6 movies still to come, specially If one one them was a hypothetical "MoS2".
The only way to maximize the effect of his death was If Clark died on the last DCEU movie.
The only way to maximize the effect of his death was If Clark died on the last DCEU movie.
My biggest gripe with Snyder's Superman is the complete absence of Clark as a character or persona. Snyder just isn't interested in any of that boy from Kansas stuff being a part of his personality.
That doesn't make him an invalid or fake superman or any of that hyperbole but I quite like the inherent optimism that stuff usually brings to the character. I don't find Snyder's Superman very relatable as a result. But hey, that's just me.
That doesn't make him an invalid or fake superman or any of that hyperbole but I quite like the inherent optimism that stuff usually brings to the character. I don't find Snyder's Superman very relatable as a result. But hey, that's just me.
The few moments where is Clark and not Kal-El are great. I love it. Except for when he's with Lois because she is actually worse than Superman
Unrelated question, but is it normal in comics for the hero to talk a villain down instead of fighting? Or is it mostly a TV thing? For example in the CW shows, they are constantly talking the villain into submission. "You are better than this, you can do it! You are the strongest person I have ever known" blah blah blah. I find this lame as fuck.
Leo_Sagittarius
Member
That sounds like some pep talk out of Rocky Balboa ahah. I think it tends to happen only when a hero is fighting another one. Or if the villain in question was a former ally I'd say
Smokey_Run
Member
Sounds like a budget constriction to me.
All of that is in BvS. It's just all of that is being crushed by the responsibilities that comes from being Superman. Lois and Clark pretty much talk about this in the bathtub scene and in the hotel scene after the bombing.
Nah. At least not what I'm thinking of. BvS can't do everything, dude.
Yea this is what I figured. Pretty lame. There's way too much bullshit pep talks in these shows.
I think guek means having that farmboy mentality while actually in Superman mode. But I'm not sure and I can't really explain it
Well, that's what I find makes Snyder's Superman relatable. He's an optimistic person with integrity but the stark realities are pushing him to question all those values. In today's political climate, who hasn't felt some of that?
But I'm guessing you want to see more of Reeve's Superman? That aw shucks underdog type of attitude? I don't know how you could fit it into BvS tbh.
I don't. I try to read what I can of the essential books, but I'm slow. I'm trying to see what I read next. The last comic I read. Wonder Woman Earth One by Morrison.
Accurate ass statement
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Smokey_Run
Member
IMDB claims he's currently filming Roma - looks like a small, independent film.. I clicked through, but it was an empty page for the most part.
No not specifically Reeves, I just wanted more Clark as an actual character. The vast majority of Superman depictions have two distinct personas for the character - Clark Kent and Superman. Both usually have hints of the other bleeding over to connect them as the same character. This is common in the comics as well. It's clear though that Snyder doesn't give a shit about secret identities so he makes no attempt to really differentiate the Clark Kent personality from Superman. I've seen some in here show disdain for secret identities and that's fine, it's just a preference but one I tend to have as a long time comic reader. The only other prominent rendition of Superman that comes to mind that didn't bother with the dual personality is the DCAU Justice League version and I didn't care for that version either (aside from the episode where he gets sent to the distant future). The DCAU Adventures of Superman was great however.
Saying that people who don't read comics and only want surface level Superman is lame. I currently read every Superman book, and feel that Clark was short changed in BvS in favor of Batman. Man of Steel was the perfect origin story of a modern day Superman, and BvS fails him on so many levels. It's almost a two year gap and the character development is barely there in two years.
The parts of Clark Kent that show through in BvS are quite good, but it's sadly not enough. Also I wish Clark was alive inspiring the world, and not being a maryter.
The parts of Clark Kent that show through in BvS are quite good, but it's sadly not enough. Also I wish Clark was alive inspiring the world, and not being a maryter.
Clark was fucking short changed as hell.
thehypocrite
Member
MoS-too the dawn of Clark Kent.
Wasn't it three years? At least this can be handwaved as saying his Superman life was so shit he couldn't help but be affected as Kent.
What we needed is a damn MoS 2 where we see how Clark and Superman go from the end o MoS to where he is in BvS. Clark was happy at the end of that and he probably had a few good times
GringoSuave89
Banned
God, I cannot wait. Please be good...
18 months I believe
EDIT: yup, just watched the intro to BvS again. 18 months
GringoSuave89
Banned
Flash oversized toy from Jakks:
There's a good design lost in there somewhere
GringoSuave89
Banned
Its grown on me a lot, but a forensic scientist wearing fingerless gloves is just so stupid.
Assuming he is still one in this continuity.
GringoSuave89
Banned
The concept from the DC event that CW aired had him all CSI'd out.
That was before the changes.
broncobuster
Banned
Sort of a "duh" comment, if it were uniform instead of segments with wires, the design would be great. And it's what I'm hoping for with the final suit. I get they went with this to evoke a samurai armor aesthetic to fit the seven samurai influence, but I hope we see the othersuit in action by the end. As is, it's a surprise the mask/cowl works as well as it does. I attribute it to the wings and Ezra Miller's crazy jawline.
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