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[Ashhong]

I wish I was as good as you guys at seeing themes in movies. I see some stuff, but all this fascist and subversion nonsense goes over my head. I see cool shit and I enjoy it, end of story. I do appreciate technique and directorial style though, which is why I have a hardon for both Snyder and Nolan.

 

[shingi70]

In regards to the ending change, wouldn't it happen even if Snyder was still directing?

 

[ReiGun]

In regards to the ending change, wouldn't it happen even if Snyder was still directing?

The report I read stated the change was happening because of the switch from being a two-parter to a standalone. So yeah, it stands to reason it would have changed regardless.

 

[Raptor]

I wish I was as good as you guys at seeing themes in movies. I see some stuff, but all this fascist and subversion nonsense goes over my head. I see cool shit and I enjoy it, end of story. I do appreciate technique and directorial style though, which is why I have a hardon for both Snyder and Nolan.

I never notice anything, I notice some metaphors here and there but some deep stuff nope.

 

[thehypocrite]

I never notice anything, I notice some metaphors here and there but some deep stuff nope.

In 300 the narrator is even missing 1 eye.

 

[Ashhong]

In 300 the narrator is even missing 1 eye.

What does that mean?

 

[Ninjimbo]

Sucker Punch is a weird one. I really don't like the movie for various reasons, but yeah, even on the surface level the intent was clear. It was odd to see so much criticism kinda misplaced.

And Watchmen, I think the issue there is Snyder making things look too cool. Like, on the making of features he talks about how the ultra violence is suppose to be uncomfortable and you shouldn't enjoy it. Then it clashes with fights that are too well choreographed and stylish. A History of Violence does something similar but the action in that movie is all messy and sloppy. One scene in Watchmen that captured it well is Doctor Manhattan exploding some goons in a nightclub, with the viscera and all the mess on the ceiling and the people sitting around them. At the same time, I believe Snyder wanted to draw from then modern action movies for Watchmen, so you had Matrix style fighting. I don't know if that was the best decision.

In regards to Watchmen, I'm always left scratching my head when people criticize Snyder for not getting the source material and then pointing to the violence in the movie. Scenes like the one you pointed out give a clear indication that it is meant to be disturbing, but you have whole swaths of people saying that Snyder is glorifying it. I can see how maybe the slow-mo might get you to think that way, but I've always considered Snyder's use of slow mo to be a call back to the aesthetic he grew up admiring. He frames those shots like a comic panel. In Watchmen, those slow mo shots only emphasize how brutal it all is.

Theres an ironic subversion to nearly every film Snyder makes. He's talked at lengths many times about how he approaches every film he makes as a way to subvert what people want or expect. Sucker Punch is literally about this.

A lot of the misreading of his films as pseudo fascist wank are literally people missing the forest for the trees. As a filmmaker he is closer to 80s Verhoeven than anyone else really, and none of his films should be seen from a surface level. That's how you get dumb fuck articles calling BvS the "trump of movies" by people who shouldn't be allowed near a mouse and keyboard, when the film itself is literally subverting Miller's TDKR rather than just straight adapting it.

Too true. I hadn't even thought about a comparison to Verhoeven but now I realize that it makes all the sense in the world. 300 is probably closer to Starship Troopers than it is to Birth of a Nation. Snyder even said he considers 300 to be a sci-fi movie.

 

[broncobuster]

Snyder shared a new photo of Knightmare Batman for Affleck's birthday, taken exactly three years ago.

 

[J_Viper]

That perfect mask face

 

[thehypocrite]

What does that mean?

To me? Half truths.

 

[broncobuster]

Another one,

It's weird to see Knightmare Batman smiling, even a little bit.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

In regards to Watchmen, I'm always left scratching my head when people criticize Snyder for not getting the source material and then pointing to the violence in the movie. Scenes like the one you pointed out give a clear indication that it is meant to be disturbing, but you have whole swaths of people saying that Snyder is glorifying it. I can see how maybe the slow-mo might get you to think that way, but I've always considered Snyder's use of slow mo to be a call back to the aesthetic he grew up admiring. He frames those shots like a comic panel. In Watchmen, those slow mo shots only emphasize how brutal it all is.

Snyder didn't get it. The violence in the GN was brutal, but it was also mundane (until the prison, anyway). Also, got a lot of specific tonal stuff wrong. Didn't understand how pathetic the lives of the characters in the GN were. Didn't get the desperation across. Didn't get that the GN used very, very recognizable songs so that the reader would know them, and thus they come across cliched in the movie, Didn't get the Antarctica showdown right at all.

I do like the change to the scheme. And he got enough right that I still liked it. But he really missed a lot of the point.

What he absolutely nailed was the thing he created himself, the opening montage. That was fantastic.

 

[Ninjimbo]

The only thing I'll agree with you on is the ending. It stuffed some hope in a story that was ultimately hopeless. The other stuff like the characters being pathetic...I think the movie nailed all those aspects. They're all broken people in the movie.

 

[J_Viper]

Was catching up on GoT, and I realized that the Kingslayer would make a great Bruce

Edit: uhhhhh...

 

[Ashhong]

🤔

 

[broncobuster]

I recall someone suggesting Jaime Lannister for an older Oliver Queen and I could totally see it.

 

[Ross61]

Was catching up on GoT, and I realized that the Kingslayer would make a great Bruce

Edit: uhhhhh...

I need reciepts.

 

[Leo_Sagittarius]

snip

Nikolaj has that typical comicbook character face, he would fit as a classic looking Aquaman for sure.


Never heard of the Dork Podcast before, is it a legit source?

 

[broncobuster]

Supposedly the podcast is a guy doing a Boston sports radio show, which would explain how he had Casey on. But who knows. He could've simply said Ben wasn't doing The Batman, as in not directing it, and it got taken as not acting in it either. Or maybe he said he's done playing Batman, and it turns out to be the case, then it is what it is.

This whole discussion of Ben leaving happened not too long ago. Haven't changed my thoughts on it. If he doesn't want to do it anymore, let it be. If he continues, that's cool too.

What's interesting is the idea tossed around about Reeves' Batman trilogy being standalone. If so, who knows. Affleck sticks around as DCEU Batman, appearing in team ups and such. Another actor is in the solo trilogy. It's what WB wanted to do nearly a decade ago.

edit: Casey's exact quote is,

"He's not gonna do that movie, I don't think."

then he jokes about playing Swamp Thing

I misheard but he supposedly also says "I was just kind of making that up" after.

 

[Discotheque]

Was catching up on GoT, and I realized that the Kingslayer would make a great Bruce

Edit: uhhhhh...

https://image.ibb.co/dKSEzv/1502836373534.png/img]
[img]https://image.ibb.co/kcm7Kv/1502837076772.png[img][/QUOTE]

Hell no

And a standalone Batman trilogy apart from the dceu would be the dream. But I would hope it retains the fight choreography and costumers that Snyder brought on tho if it were to happen (I doubt they go standalone tho)

 

[Sweeney Tom]

Yo, if Ben legitimately lied about both directing and being in The Batman, swearing reports of either aren't true, and drops out of both roles (confirming each set of reports) in the same year

#PrayForRoss

 

[Smokey_Run]

Alright, time to shit or get off the pot Warner Bros/Ben, and announce what's really happening. This is almost becoming as annoying as Craig flip flopping on Bond every other month.

 

[Ross61]

Yo, if Ben legitimately lied about both directing and being in The Batman, swearing reports of either aren't true, and drops out of both roles (confirming each set of reports) in the same year

#PrayForRoss

Keep your prayers.

 

[Dierce]

Alright, time to shit or get off the pot Warner Bros/Ben, and announce what's really happening. This is almost becoming as annoying as Craig flip flopping on Bond every other month.

I don't think they will announce anything until after Justice League. Hopefully Matt Reeves stays on.

 

[Smokey_Run]

I don't think they will announce anything until after Justice League. Hopefully Matt Reeves stays on.

I feel the same, but when the press tour is nothing but interviewers asking Ben if he's coming back for the Batman, they have a potential PR disaster on their hands if they send him in there saying he's coming back and then announcing he's done a month or two later.

Reeves more or less got what he wanted when he "backed" out of the talks. I doubt he's going anywhere and likely has the freedom to do whatever he wants, within reason, with the Batman solo films.

 

[kmfdmpig]

I feel the same, but when the press tour is nothing but interviewers asking Ben if he's coming back for the Batman, they have a potential PR disaster on their hands if they send him in there saying he's coming back and then announcing he's done a month or two later.

Reeves more or less got what he wanted when he "backed" out of the talks. I doubt he's going anywhere and likely has the freedom to do whatever he wants, within reason, with the Batman solo films.

As long as Reeves is still there then I have confidence that the movie will ultimately be good, with or without Ben.

 

[Ashhong]

After watching War last weekend, I agree. Holy shit what a good movie. Perfect blend of action, exposition and emotion. So much emotion

And a standalone Batman in addition to the DCEU sounds stupid as fuck. Please no.

 

[b&jy77VjiKn$#F]

Casey Affleck just told me that he's not a creep. Can't trust the guy.

 

[Ninjimbo]

From the transcript posted on Reddit, it sounds like Casey is joking. But that's not going to stop some people from panicking.

What's the opposite of a hype train? Because I'm pretty sure that what we're on going into JL. Let's call it the trepidation bus.

 

[ryan299]

After all the rumors I really don't expect him to be in The Batman. Will be happy if he is though.

 

[Ross61]

Ben will be the Batman in The Batman. Quote me on this.

 

[MHWilliams]

What does that mean?

That he's not seeing the whole truth.

The issue with metaphor is its easy to draw themes out that that the author did not intend.

Supposedly the podcast is a guy doing a Boston sports radio show, which would explain how he had Casey on. But who knows. He could've simply said Ben wasn't doing The Batman, as in not directing it, and it got taken as not acting in it either. Or maybe he said he's done playing Batman, and it turns out to be the case, then it is what it is.

This whole discussion of Ben leaving happened not too long ago. Haven't changed my thoughts on it. If he doesn't want to do it anymore, let it be. If he continues, that's cool too.

What's interesting is the idea tossed around about Reeves' Batman trilogy being standalone. If so, who knows. Affleck sticks around as DCEU Batman, appearing in team ups and such. Another actor is in the solo trilogy. It's what WB wanted to do nearly a decade ago.

edit: Casey's exact quote is,

"He's not gonna do that movie, I don't think."

then he jokes about playing Swamp Thing

I misheard but he supposedly also says "I was just kind of making that up" after.

Eh. I'm not seeing them doing The Batman without Affleck in any capacity. I could see a handoff film, but no Affleck at all? Doesn't track for me.

 

[Ashhong]

That he's not seeing the whole truth.

The issue with metaphor is its easy to draw themes out that that the author did not intend.



Eh. I'm not seeing them doing The Batman without Affleck in any capacity. I could see a handoff film, but no Affleck at all? Doesn't track for me.

Oh snap. Snyder is a genius!

Unless that's in the GN...in that case, Snyder is still a genius for putting it into the movie

 

[broncobuster]

It's questionable for sure, but who knows. It's not unheard of in other media. It's unclear if movie audiences are ready for it. Some unfortunate events kept WB from doing it with MIller's JL Mortal and Nolan's trilogy almost a decade ago. Who knows how things would've been had it happened. Like, there'd be a solution to that whole confusion with Spider-Man right now.

 

[Ross61]

Doubt about him being in Batman but signed up quick for that Accountant sequel... something weird is going on. I feel by the end of JL we'll have a better feel of things and a confirmation. Ben seems hopeful in JL and DCEU going forward. Hell, he himself is trying to fix things up behind the scene like personally courting Matt Reeves after he stepped down. I just don't think he would dropout at this point. I feel like for a period of time, especially after basically all of 2016, that a toll has been taken on him and had him doubting a himself.

 

[Wingfan19]

New interview with Ben

http://ew.com/movies/2017/08/15/ben-affleck-batman-traditional-justice-league/

“He’s put in this position of having to reach out, find other people, convincing them to do something,” Affleck explains. “Part of the drama of the movie is the question of whether or not the team is going to come together. It’s very different from the tenor of the last movie.”

And the character is very different, too. “BvS departed a little bit from the traditional Batman,” says Affleck. “He started out with all this rage directed at Superman, because of his coworkers who had died in the fight Superman had with Zod.” For Affleck, most of the hero’s ensuing actions were defined by barely-repressed fury – in contrast to the Batman we meet in Justice League. “He was holding on to a lot of anger, in a little bit of an irrational way,” Affleck says. “Whereas this is a much more traditional Batman. He’s heroic. He does things in his own way, but he wants to save people, help people.”

“This is more in keeping with the canon of how Batman’s usually been portrayed, and how he’s portrayed vis a vis the Justice League in the comics,” he explains. “This is more the Batman you would find if you opened up your average Batman comic book.”

 

[broncobuster]

I like that he's just stating his arc from BvS.

 

[Ashhong]

I like that he's just stating his arc from BvS.

It's what we all know and expect, minus the OT

 

[Sygma]

The very short version: The movie creates a parallel between the soldiers' bodies and the political body of the state

The defining characteristic of fascism is that it says that a specific social group is politically beautiful (blonde Germans, etc.) and therefore superior to other social groups

The movie equates the aesthetically beautiful actors' bodies with their being politically beautiful

The traitor is aesthetically ugly/deformed and so excluded from membership in the political body

Also, the movie glorifies a bunch of slaveowners who thought war was awesome (but so do a lot of American movies)

Yeah its not like original spartans weren't devoting their entire existence, body and societal status to a perfect image of strength which prevailed above all else. Spartans were also known to humiliate their enemies in order to elevate themselves.

Besides I don't know where the hell that image of beauty / whatever is out from. Leonidas is telling the ugly dude straight up that he simply can't raise his shield because of his handicap, and that is a no go. You have to look at strength for what it is at its purest form, everything else is over interpretation


Edit :

300 is probably closer to Starship Troopers

Nailed it perfectly. 300 is the spirit of the sergent in Starship Troopers. Its the spirit of Hartman in Full Metal Jacket. It's just the food chain at its most primitive form. Eat or you ll be chewed by something nastier than yourself

 

[The Kree]

Hell no

And a standalone Batman trilogy apart from the dceu would be the dream. But I would hope it retains the fight choreography and costumers that Snyder brought on tho if it were to happen (I doubt they go standalone tho)

You already have a couple of those. How is it still a dream?

 

[Ninjimbo]

Disco is a Bats fanboy. He'll take all the Batman he can get.

 

[Leo_Sagittarius]

Hell no

And a standalone Batman trilogy apart from the dceu would be the dream. But I would hope it retains the fight choreography and costumers that Snyder brought on tho if it were to happen (I doubt they go standalone tho)

Nothing would bum me more than going back to the early 90's-early 2000's era with a lot of Batman standalone/trilogies/duologies with different actors an directors and the occasional random shitty Superman movie inbetween.

This is the golden age of the superhero genre and Marvel is knocking it out of the park with their cinematic universe, they got their shit together when it comes to emulate on the big screen the comicbooks publishing dynamic. And no doubt this is helped by the fact they got their actors locked down for the long run, which in turn it creates a sense of familiarity with the audiences that get to grow alongside the characters.

There's no reason why WB couldn't accomplish the same specially considering they own all of their characters, the possibilities are endless.

 

[ReiGun]

Am I recalling correctly that Whedon was brought on to work on JL before Synder stepped down and the two were collaborating heavily up till that point? Or do I have the timeline of events messed up.

 

[GringoSuave89]

Am I recalling correctly that Whedon was brought on to work on JL before Synder stepped down and the two were collaborating heavily up till that point? Or do I have the timeline of events messed up.

I believe Snyder went to Whedon to help write more connective scenes, and when Snyder bowed out Whedon was the logical choice. At least that's what I read when news first broke.

 

[Ninjimbo]

I believe Snyder went to Whedon to help write more connective scenes, and when Snyder bowed out Whedon was the logical choice. At least that's what I read when news first broke.

This is the official story. However we don't know what the hell is going on with this production. It seems like every single bit of rumor is being treated like if it was hard news. Anything to satisfy the narratives built up in people's heads.

 

[ReiGun]

I believe Snyder went to Whedon to help write more connective scenes, and when Snyder bowed out Whedon was the logical choice. At least that's what I read when news first broke.

Ah okay. I just remember hearing Whedon was already working on the film before Synder left.

This is the official story. However we don't know what the hell is going on with this production. It seems like every single bit of rumor is being treated like if it was hard news. Anything to satisfy the narratives built up in people's heads.

Basically. There's so many rumors floating around - especially now that news of the reshoots broke - that I don't know what's what.

 

[Firemind]

You already have a couple of those. How is it still a dream?

He said fight choreography and costume.

 

[Ninjimbo]

Basically. There's so many rumors floating around - especially now that news of the reshoots broke - that I don't know what's what.

Same here. Idk what to believe anymore. All I can do is wait until the movie comes out.

 

[a916]

Was catching up on GoT, and I realized that the Kingslayer would make a great Bruce

Edit: uhhhhh...

GOT is perfectly cast... I really don't see it.

 

[b&jy77VjiKn$#F]

https://vimeo.com/229858767