-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Dead Space 2 |OT| The Marker Is Not A Sharpie
- Thread starter NotTheGuyYouKill
- Start date
Why is it that people complain about backtracking in the first Dead Space?
From what I remember, there's only backtracking through the
Also, am I the only one who actually enjoyed the backtracking? Felt like by the end of the game you knew the Ishimura inside and out, compared to not knowing shit about how the ship was structured when you first crash landed onto it. Loved that feeling.
From what I remember, there's only backtracking through the
Medical Deck, the Bridge, and the Flight Deck. That still gives you like nine chapters in the game with distinctive levels.
Also, am I the only one who actually enjoyed the backtracking? Felt like by the end of the game you knew the Ishimura inside and out, compared to not knowing shit about how the ship was structured when you first crash landed onto it. Loved that feeling.
Die Squirrel Die
Member
Jedeye Sniv said:
Speak for yourself, I did Hardcore before Zealot. It's been Handcannon ago-go for me.
MarshMellow96
Member
SamuraiX- said:
Definitely creates a consistent environment, IMO (as I've said before).
I always find it deeply amusing that people say they bored of backtracking, yet loved the
Ishimura segments
SamuraiX- said:
No, I loved the backtracking too. Makes the game feel much less like a tunnel and more like an actual place in space and time. Missed it in DS2 (and in Bioshock 2 for that matter). That's one of the reasons I'm looking forward to the DS2 DLC - we most probably will be going through these areas again. Now if they'll go ahead and announce a release date already.....
EDIT: There actually is a small backtracking section in DS2, though
the bit with the open complex mall area (where you enter the Unitology recruitment center on your way to the Unitology church and then on your return, where you meet Ellie for the first time). Speaks well to how it feels like a totally new area given the physical changes it's undergone by the time you go through a second time and meet Ellie.
ok, so I picked a flamethrower schematic. Is it really useful in close combat? Do enemies die instantly? What is alternative fire mode? I have Ripper for close combat currently. Also I'm tempted by Javelin, but I think there's going to be another upgraded costume down the line (chapter 6). Currently I'm rocking Line Gun, Ripper, machine gun and the plasma gun setup but I'm a bit dissapointed in machine gun because it runs out of ammo quickly . Still very useful.
subversus said:
When flamethrower is upgraded it actually works pretty well. I made it through the
second hub mob attack when there's no oxygen
subversus said:
Flamethrower is pretty good. I never really committed to it outside of getting the 50 kills achievement with it, but I did find it was even relatively useful against the stronger enemies. Especially if you stasis them first. I never quite figured out if I was supposed to pulse the trigger on the flamethrower or just hold it down but, my instinct is always to conserve ammo so I pulsed it.
I really enjoy using the Ripper though. Once that is upgraded it just chews through enemies. Even kills the Stalkers before they can get to you and that is on Zealot.
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
I loved it in DS1 because areas were worth backtracking through.SamuraiX- said:
DS2 areas... not so much.
Rez said:
I think people just have a case of nostalgia of DS1. Let me tell you what I remember on each level of DS1:
1. The same waiting room front area (the one where the train is) on each level. You normally get attacked here during the last stage of a chapter before boarding the train to another section.
2. The same level corridor leading up to the main area. Some surprise normally awaits you here.
3. Some variation of the main area but ultimately, it's always a large room with a save point, a shop, and somewhere nearby, a node upgrade machine.
4. The same laboratory kind of stage where more Necros await you.
5. The same Zero-G area where you have to jump from one platform to another.
I think the difference is that, the Ishimura does make you feel that you're in a space. Whereas the space station sometimes feel like you're in a mall and later a church. Needs more outdoor shot, I think.
bigdaddygamebot
Member
luxarific said:
In terms of "setting" for each game. I much preferred the Ishimura over The Sprawl.
Replicant said:
Yes...but then sometimes, you don't.
I liked that familiarity. It gave me a sense of consistency and "Yep, I'm definitely at the tram station."
Replicant said:
I'm not a space vessel engineer but all of this felt like how it might actually be designed. Nothing sexy. Function over fashion. Stick with what works. It never felt to me like the developer was being "lazy". It felt to me like logical space ship design.
Replicant said:
Well...the same can certainly be said for Dead Space 2. I'm not saying your opinion is invalid. I'm just saying that I feel like I got so much more out of the level design in the first one despite the spectacular set pieces in the second. After having played both...a lot. My top three Dead Space moments still come from the first game.
iii) Backtracking through the med-lab with the "unkillable" necro chasing you while the places you passed through before are now in a vacuum and you need to haul ass before you run out of air.
ii) I don't recall the exact function of the room but it's in the second half of the game (and there's a node room to the side) There's a walkway around the perimeter of the room and you activate something and necros start spawning on either side of you on the circular walkway making you the meat in a necro sandwich.
i) Asteroid room - Where the large rotating "thing" is moving around the asteroid that is tethered to the ship. You have to land on the asteroid, avoid the rotating beam and go outside the ship. You can see Aegis VII below/above you and the view is spectacular, your air is running out, you need to run over and flick a switch and oh yeah, there's lurkers and leapers trying to kill you.
Those three moments are forever burned into my memory and although I really like what the devs did with the combat in DS 2, as well as the set pieces...for some reason, even though they tried to make The Sprawl feel "connected" it didn't feel connected to me.
4. The same laboratory kind of stage where more Necros await you.
5. The same Zero-G area where you have to jump from one platform to another.
Replicant said:
Agreed.
I still don't understand the physics and the need for the "rocket booster chair" in the "solar array control room". I don't get why Isaac needs to rocketeer/fall with style from atop the solar array all while dodging debris and floating buildings. Like...I get it...there's no gravity and then there IS gravity closer to the station but...yeah...DS1 settings just seemed to make more sense to me...and most likely only me.
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
the giant Ishimura sign in the docking bay is freaking godly.
"yep, here I fucking am"
"yep, here I fucking am"
bigdaddygamebot
Member
luxarific said:
On my hardcore run...I took it down in four shots, five at the most from the Contact Beam. It was easy-peasy.
Rez said:
The anxiety I felt when I saw that sign...man.
bigdaddygamebot said:
Wasn't something is about to leave and Isaac needs to catch up? Or something about to explode and therefore Isaac needs to get out of there pronto? Eileen mentioned something about "There's no way you can make it in time" but Isaac tells her that he'd take care of that. At any rate, it looks cool and awesome and since I'm no space engineer, I'd have no clue if it's feasible or not.
bigdaddygamebot
Member
Replicant said:
I get that part. What I don't get is why is it even there to begin with?
PIMPBYBLUD
Member
StevePharma said:
look at that MOFO go to work! I'm gonna have to try that Javelin run...
I haven't booted up Dead Space 2 just yet, but quick question to those who've played through it:
How's the quality of the objectives laid out for you in each chapter?
Another thing I love about the first Dead Space is that every new objective given to you in the current chapter that sets the stage for the next chapter always felt important and purposeful in a way. Nothing felt like filler bull shit. This is all my opinion, of course, and regardless whether you agree with me or not, what did you think of the goals/objectives in Dead Space 2?
How's the quality of the objectives laid out for you in each chapter?
Another thing I love about the first Dead Space is that every new objective given to you in the current chapter that sets the stage for the next chapter always felt important and purposeful in a way. Nothing felt like filler bull shit. This is all my opinion, of course, and regardless whether you agree with me or not, what did you think of the goals/objectives in Dead Space 2?
SamuraiX- said:
Really ironic you should say that, because I feel almost exactly the opposite about the original Dead Space.
I felt that the domino effect of technical malfunctions aboard the Ishimura were all a bit uninspiring and unbelievable. I know Isaac is an engineer, but by golly did he feel like a beleaguered electrician getting ordered around by ambiguous older man and shrill young woman.
One of the things I liked about Dead Space 2 was that there was a little bit more context to the game's objectives. Not much more, but hey, it involved me in the story a bit more.
SamuraiX- said:
Definitely no filler. Objectives are clearly noted and they all seem essential and to flow rationally from what you're trying to do at the moment and your overall goal. The chapter-to-chapter transition is seamless, much more so than in DS1. In fact, it's almost too seamless. If you blink, you can easily miss the fact that you're in a new chapter. Pace is definitely quicker than DS1, which I didn't really like, but this was intentional on the part of Visceral, from what I understand. Think Aliens as opposed to Alien and that basically sums up the pace.
Lion Heart
Banned
If anyone has a Chapter 11 or maybe 12 save file (PC) I would really appreciate it. Thanks.
Baloonatic
Member
Sidzed2 said:
Well, most of the time it was because it was more convenient to have Isaac do what was required either because he was closer to the objective or because Hammond and Kendra were already in established positions from where they could help him get it done or tackle something else.
And I don't remember anything being unbelievable considering the condition of the ship and the situation presented. Whether the objectives were uninspired is obviously subjective (personally I felt they perfectly suited the whole idea having to salvage a broken ship), but I think most people will agree that the game thankfully doesn't suffer from the "hey, do this just because we need you to spend time doing stuff so the game doesn't feel too short" syndrome that many games have suffered from this generation.
luxarific said:
Sounds awesome. Glad to hear the positive opinions about Dead Space 2. Looking even more forward to booting it up now.
RedAssedApe
Banned
I haven't finished DS2 yet but was the ending of DS1 not considered canon?
You know the part where his dead GF jumps out? Or was it canon and just assumed that Issac dismembered her?
henhowc said:I haven't finished DS2 yet but was the ending of DS1 not considered canon?You know the part where his dead GF jumps out? Or was it canon and just assumed that Issac dismembered her?
That's definitely canon, but it's
never explained
My assumption is that this is the first instance of the Nicole-that-is-not-Nicole (by which I mean, Issac is aware that this is not really his girlfriend, which he wasn't for the earlier instances of Nicole's appearance in DS1). Nicole-that-is-not-Nicole is a significant part of DS2 and Issac's growing realization of who she is plays an important part in the ending, so I'll shut up now so I don't ruin it for you. I will say that scene in DS1 is not ignored in DS2, however.
It sounds kinda dumb to ask this now that I've finished the game. But regarding the final boss:
Did Isaac ends up destroying the marker on the Titan station or not? I thought the whole killing ghostly Nicole and the marker only happens inside his head. I really don't understand that part. If it all only happened inside his mind then how did he destroy the real thing? Or is his mind able to destroy it just by having that internal battle?
Beat the game on normal. Very good game; a couple of frustrating parts near the end but nothing too bad.
I'm slightly annoyed by the "hero is mentally tormented by a ghostly apparition and the game slows down while the screen gets all warped" mechanic as seen in other action games (Halo, Resistance, etc).
And what's the deal with all these aliens? Do they really sit inside the wall all fucking day waiting for someone to walk by? I'm the last guy alive on the planet; it could be hours or days before anyone steps foot near them. I'm sure they're having the time of their lives twiddling their thumbs inside the wall; "today's gonna be the day, I can feel it!"
I'm slightly annoyed by the "hero is mentally tormented by a ghostly apparition and the game slows down while the screen gets all warped" mechanic as seen in other action games (Halo, Resistance, etc).
And what's the deal with all these aliens? Do they really sit inside the wall all fucking day waiting for someone to walk by? I'm the last guy alive on the planet; it could be hours or days before anyone steps foot near them. I'm sure they're having the time of their lives twiddling their thumbs inside the wall; "today's gonna be the day, I can feel it!"
Replicant said:
It's the latter, I think. The physical destruction of the Marker you see at the very end after the boss battle, is essentially a side effect of something more important - Issac's prevention of the culmination of the Convergence Event. The Marker (or whatever entity is controlling it or embodied by it) was trying to trick him into completion/convergence. (I'm not 100% sure that completion = convergence, but it's what I'm going with right now.) Marker!Nicole says that it needs the Maker to die to become complete (in this case, referring to Issac, as Stross, its other Maker, is already dead by Issac's hand - presumably under influence by the Marker, or at least this is what Issac yells at Marker!Nicole, just before she asks him what she is in Chapter 11).
Presumably the whole final battle is an attempt by the part of Issac's brain that is controlled/influenced by the Marker to get him to suicide, as there's no one left to kill him (since he's killed Tiedmann and outrun the necromorphs). If Marker!Nicole touches you during the battle, you see a cut scene of Issac killing himself, so I assume this is a necessary requirement for completion/convergence. So by winning that final test of wills between himself and the part of his brain that was influenced by the Marker and stopping completion/convergence, Issac basically destroys the Marker's physical representation in the real world.
But, hell I could be wrong. There's so much about the story that we haven't really been told yet and god knows how it fits in to what we learned about the original marker in Dead Space Martyr (which you should definitely read if you're interested in the backstory of this universe). But I can live the ambiguity; as long as the games and associated media continue to be as entertaining as they have been, I wouldn't mind if this story takes a decade to unwind.
Presumably the whole final battle is an attempt by the part of Issac's brain that is controlled/influenced by the Marker to get him to suicide, as there's no one left to kill him (since he's killed Tiedmann and outrun the necromorphs). If Marker!Nicole touches you during the battle, you see a cut scene of Issac killing himself, so I assume this is a necessary requirement for completion/convergence. So by winning that final test of wills between himself and the part of his brain that was influenced by the Marker and stopping completion/convergence, Issac basically destroys the Marker's physical representation in the real world.
But, hell I could be wrong. There's so much about the story that we haven't really been told yet and god knows how it fits in to what we learned about the original marker in Dead Space Martyr (which you should definitely read if you're interested in the backstory of this universe). But I can live the ambiguity; as long as the games and associated media continue to be as entertaining as they have been, I wouldn't mind if this story takes a decade to unwind.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
I think Lux hit it dead-on, it's the most reasonable way to look at it.
Apoc29 said:
luxarific said:
I don't think
convergence = completion. I think convergence happened when Isaac finally injects his eyes with the needle, thus allowing him access to the Marker's mind and vice versa. My guess is that the marker intended the process to control him so they can reach completion but instead Isaac fought back and defeated it.
I agree with the rest though. I did think that
Nicole touching him in the mind world means that his mind is completely controlled by the marker. Whereas him destroying the marker in his mind means he turns the table on the marker. I wonder if this makes Isaac a somewhat different being in the 3rd one now that he has some residual link to a marker.
Replicant said:
That definitely could be the case.
One of the last things that Marker!Nicole says to you in the final battle is "yours is the last body we need to be reborn". Which implies that Marker!Nicole thinks it already has control of Issac's mind via the machine and now just needs to kill his body for completion/rebirth. I wonder if the DLC will shed any light on this. I have this fantasy that we'll get to play through the entire sprawl as either Lexine or Gabe Weller, but I know it'll probably be much shorter.
Also new vid: Your Mom's Really Bad at Multiplayer.
I admit I laughed. Seriously though, are these real people or actors? I can't tell.
luxarific said:
Looks real at times and fake sometimes. Wasn't there an earlier video of mom complaining of the violence in the game? That video reminds me how much I hate friendly fire in DS2 multiplayer though. In the heat of a battle, sometimes you're in the middle of shooting the other group (the Necros) when all of a sudden a team mate walk into the line of fire and got injured.
Haeleos
Member
Just finished it on Survivalist. I was totally scoffing at people saying this game takes a nosedive in the last 2-3 chapters, but you guys weren't kidding. What a way to put a sour note at the end of an A+ game. I did it in 3-4 tries, but I can tell why a lot of people were frustrated. It's not even difficult, it's just really bad design. It's certainly discouraged me from attempting hardcore.
plagiarize
Banned
finally finished last night. well kinda. had to drop down to normal for
mainly due to a lack of health resources. wanted to make sure i wasn't doing something wrong either. first try at it on normal (after about ten attempts on survivalist) was a cake walk.
the last two chapters then... actually i loved them, but here is where i think the game stumbles.
if you play through those last few chapters with that focus, they're actually fun. i'd heard enough on here to know that once that thing showed up that you were in hot zones. i mean story wise it makes sense that those areas should have endless enemies, but i think the only real mistake was not telling the player that they need to change up their tactics.
i really enjoyed those last couple of levels because i played them correctly, but its absolutely the fault of the designers for not giving people enough indicators as to how they were supposed to approach those sections. the number of people complaining about them, doesn't say that they aren't fun, or that they're badly designed in terms of gameplay, it says to me that the game drops the ball in feedback.
my other issue is what led me to drop down. i'd been keeping one save slot per level. not having a store at the last save point just seems overly cruel. i could do with a health pack or two for the final section, and i have more than 10,000 credits, and a circuit board i can sell, but to get to the previous store i have to back track through a hot zone, and then fight my way back through a hot zone.
some feedback on the final store being the final store would have been fine too. i purposefully left my self with a buffer of at least 10,000 credits at every store, so that based on what was up ahead i could come back and buy what i needed... but now that i can't clear out the levels, back tracking to the store is a pretty nightmarish scenario.
i think i can beat the last part with the resources i have on survivalist:
but it's going to take a near perfect run i think. i've got a maxed out cutter with about twenty rounds
, enough pulse rifle rounds to
, four force gun rounds and four line racks.
i'm using these tactics (which worked brilliantly on Normal):
any idea how many plasma cutter shots i need to put into that thing?
the very last boss battle
the last two chapters then... actually i loved them, but here is where i think the game stumbles.
when you're getting out of that terminal area, and Ellie is waiting for you and you're being swarmed the game very specifically tells you 'get the hell out of there, there's too many of them'. at the beginning of the game, the game very specifically tells you that all you can do is run. after the abomination (as i like to call it) shows up, the game DOESN'T tell you to focus on getting to the marker.
if you play through those last few chapters with that focus, they're actually fun. i'd heard enough on here to know that once that thing showed up that you were in hot zones. i mean story wise it makes sense that those areas should have endless enemies, but i think the only real mistake was not telling the player that they need to change up their tactics.
i really enjoyed those last couple of levels because i played them correctly, but its absolutely the fault of the designers for not giving people enough indicators as to how they were supposed to approach those sections. the number of people complaining about them, doesn't say that they aren't fun, or that they're badly designed in terms of gameplay, it says to me that the game drops the ball in feedback.
my other issue is what led me to drop down. i'd been keeping one save slot per level. not having a store at the last save point just seems overly cruel. i could do with a health pack or two for the final section, and i have more than 10,000 credits, and a circuit board i can sell, but to get to the previous store i have to back track through a hot zone, and then fight my way back through a hot zone.
some feedback on the final store being the final store would have been fine too. i purposefully left my self with a buffer of at least 10,000 credits at every store, so that based on what was up ahead i could come back and buy what i needed... but now that i can't clear out the levels, back tracking to the store is a pretty nightmarish scenario.
i think i can beat the last part with the resources i have on survivalist:
i can knock out as many as twenty shadow children things with a single force gun blast to farm them for ammo, and i have more than enough ammo to get to the point where they start showing up
which i'm using on the weakspot
kill Nicole the first time
i'm using these tactics (which worked brilliantly on Normal):
herd the little kids into a big pack, wipe them out with a single force gun blast, pick up all the stuff they drop, reload all my guns, heal if i can, pulse rifle nicole and then plasma cutter the core.
any idea how many plasma cutter shots i need to put into that thing?
My tactic for the final battle made it painfully easy, finished the fight in less than a minute or so all I did was
Stasis Nicole and throw a Line Gun grenade. I had it upgraded so it exploded quickly one shotting here. Then I shot the Marker with the plasma cutter. Rinse and repeat 2 or 3 more times and the battle ended. The little shadow things never even got a chance to spawn
plagiarize
Banned
so three or four times should be enough on survivalist? i'm sure i can manage that with what i have.Pancho said:
Baraka in the White House
2-Terms of Kombat
Haeleos said:
Developers have to tread incredibly carefully when it comes to planning out enemy gangbangs, because there's a razor thin line between a refreshing, "Holy hell I can't believe I just beat all that" and "Well I'm glad I got through all that bullshit."
I said the first for Dead Space 1, the latter for this one.
Idesofmarch
Neo Member
I hated the end of the game
Unfortunate last impression of I game otherwise I had been enjoying.
It reminded me of the end of Fear 2, but without the rape
Unfortunate last impression of I game otherwise I had been enjoying.
Finished this morning.
While not quiiiite as good as DS1, I loved it. Hoo boy, it really picks up steam later on and I was like "Hells yeah! Now this is Dead Space".
Now about the plot...am I just a dummy or
While not quiiiite as good as DS1, I loved it. Hoo boy, it really picks up steam later on and I was like "Hells yeah! Now this is Dead Space".
Now about the plot...am I just a dummy or
has this series still not explained the significance of "Convergence" and/or the purpose of the marker? So far the only thing clear to me is that it replicates itself through contact with lifeforms and needs DNA/blood/flesh.etc. to achieve Convergence (whatever that accomplishes). Hopefully EA resolves this with something cool and doesn't just rip off Clarke's Monolith concept. Well...I guess maybe it's too late for that.
plagiarize
Banned
i still feel that the issue is that they don't properly introduce theDOO13ER said:
regenerator
i honestly think with a bit more dialogue, you could leave the gameplay and level design as is. just make the player understand that what they need to do now
is get to the marker ASAP and forget about killing necromorphs
the difficulty isn't that bad at all when you know to push forwards. like i said, i really enjoyed the way that much hated section played, but i'd have hated it if i hadn't already seen the advice around these parts of what to do when you get there.
Monkey Pants
Outpost Games Creative Director
Hi Everybody!
Just wanted to say that we appreciate the thoughtful feedback and analysis here. I can't go into line by line explanations or dialogues about everything, but we read every word and it will help make future games better.
- The DS team.
PS. So far, my main takeaways are that you want lots more infinite respawn Necromorph gang fights and asteroid shooting sequences. Right?
Just wanted to say that we appreciate the thoughtful feedback and analysis here. I can't go into line by line explanations or dialogues about everything, but we read every word and it will help make future games better.
- The DS team.
PS. So far, my main takeaways are that you want lots more infinite respawn Necromorph gang fights and asteroid shooting sequences. Right?
hey_it's_that_dog
benevolent sexism
Monkey Pants said:Hi Everybody!
Just wanted to say that we appreciate the thoughtful feedback and analysis here. I can't go into line by line explanations or dialogues about everything, but we read every word and it will help make future games better.
- The DS team.
PS. So far, my main takeaways are that you want lots more infinite respawn Necromorph gang fights and asteroid shooting sequences. Right?
Maybe a room where asteroids infinitely respawn?
Really loving the game by the way. Just got to Ch 14 last night and shit is indeed hitting the fan, combat-wise. I think one problem I have is that the Necromorphs make a lot of noise when they spawn, but I can't pinpoint where they are based on the sound. I don't have a surround setup, so maybe that's the problem, but it seems like the game could have better directional audio.
To be quite honest, I was a tad disappointed there wasn't one in DS2. The lack of decent boss fights disturbed me more though!Monkey Pants said:Hi Everybody!
Just wanted to say that we appreciate the thoughtful feedback and analysis here. I can't go into line by line explanations or dialogues about everything, but we read every word and it will help make future games better.
- The DS team.
PS. So far, my main takeaways are that you want lots more infinite respawn Necromorph gang fights and asteroid shooting sequences. Right?
And don't forget, ideas for future Dead Space games:
- Sidescrolling exploration action/adventure game like Super Metroid or Shadow Complex.
- A real survival-horror game with a new protagonist, less weapons and less, but stronger enemies (how about a spin-off with Ellie?).
It falls short of the first, and while I think the voice acting is good, I'm still not all that convinced that Issac needed to talk. I'm really enjoying my New Game + achievement whoring Survivalist run.
I'm a little disappointed there weren't any space basketball or shooting minigame spin-offs.
I'm a little disappointed there weren't any space basketball or shooting minigame spin-offs.
RedAssedApe
Banned
luxarific said:
Its like the evolution of a yo momma joke. If these are actors, the black lady deserves an oscar. LOL
MrTroubleMaker
Member
lolStruct09 said: