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[J10]

We have an example in this very thread of a cop speaking out from his point of view (which everyone conveniently ignored), but keep seeing what you want to see.

Keep thinking one cop on NeoGAF is enough to prove something. I'm sure there are nice guys in the mafia, too.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Case closed. Might as well say that every teacher wants to sleep with their students too while we're at it and, just to be safe, you probably should avoid the dentist. Every profession has people who are bad at their job.

I find it a bit odd that GAF is always advocating treating people as individuals and not promote stereotypes, yet everyone seems more than okay with stereotyping cops and acting like a few bad apples represent every single one of them.

The problem is there isn't a blue wall of silence that prevents investigations of teachers. Same thing for dentists. Until we're willing to confront the culture that keeps shit like this happening and the union that protects it then we'll keep getting what we've always have.

 

[Laieon]

Keep thinking one cop on NeoGAF is enough to prove something. I'm sure there are nice guys in the mafia, too.

Nice job putting words in my mouth, I never said one cop proves something. Again, you're seeing what you want to see. You said cops never speak out against other officers (In you're exact words):

Because the good cops never seem to speak out against the bad ones,

I said there was one example in this very thread (or, at least giving us his point of view. Chances are, most of us aren't cops. Alternative view points are always nice, at least for discussions sake) Now you're moving goal posts and saying "Well, that's not enough!".

The problem is there isn't a blue wall of silence that prevents investigations of teachers. Same thing for dentists. Until we're willing to confront the culture that keeps shit like this happening and the union that protects it then we'll keep getting what we've always have.

I'm never said we shouldn't work towards fixing the problems, obviously there's issues that need to be addressed. I'm just saying that as far as individuals go, I think most cops are pretty good guys who just want to do their jobs and get home safe to their families.


Again, as far as this particular case goes, I don't think the cops were entirely unjustified in what they did. Obviously they could've done something differently, but "should've, would've, could've" goes out the window when the suspect is reaching/grabs your gun.

 

[Hex]

FUCK THE FUCKING POLICE


I can't wait for the "he was going for my gun" BS.

This shit gets so tiring.
I used to think that GAF was better than this.

Murdered that poor man

Watched on mute or maybe fast forwarded?

It is amazing how with any cop thread on gaf it immediately brings out the worst in people.
People immediately ignore facts just to throw in their hate and venom, even in threads where acts are justified.

 

[esms]

This shit gets so tiring.
I used to think that GAF was better than this.

You know what else is tiring? Zero accountability for police use of lethal force and stonewalling any discussion about reform.

 

[Hex]

You know what else is tiring? Zero accountability for police use of lethal force and stonewalling any discussion about reform.

If the person was going for the gun, it was justified.
Like it, don't like it.
If he was not going for the gun, so be it but so far it seems as if they were.
People completely ignore whether things are even clean now and just immediately go into fuck the cops mode now.

 

[J10]

Nice job putting words in my mouth, I never said one cop proves something. Again, you're seeing what you want to see. You said cops never speak out against other officers (In you're exact words):

I said there was one example in this very thread (or, at least giving us his point of view. Chances are, most of us aren't cops. Alternative view points are always nice, at least for discussions sake) Now you're moving goal posts and saying "Well, that's not enough!".

You think never literally means never? You think one cop is a good start?

 

[zeemumu]

During the struggle, one officer drops his nightstick, which is picked up by a woman on the street. Two officers handcuff the woman.

Was she about to hit that guy with it?

And why does it take that many cops for one guy and you STILL can't do it without shooting him?

 

[GrizzleBoy]

This shit gets so tiring.
I used to think that GAF was better than this.





Watched on mute or maybe fast forwarded?

It is amazing how with any cop thread on gaf it immediately brings out the worst in people.
People immediately ignore facts just to throw in their hate and venom, even in threads where acts are justified.

Yeah, people who die because they're homeless and mentally ill is just how the world works.

If four officers can't subdue a man who barely had the balance to throw the one roundhouse that couldn't hit the side of a barn, then death is warranted.

That man gave up his god given right to live the moment he CHOSE to be homeless and mentally damaged.

Sure the cops could've been better trained so the man never got to touch anybodyys weapon, but fuck him.

He doesn't even have money.

I agree with you. Fuck all the people who are sick of police killing people who didn't need to die, but actually did have to die because the police didn't do their jobs.

If you're crazy and I don't restrain you properly, if I fear for my life then you need to die. You just hVe to die. You may not have had any weapons and sure the only reason there was a deadly weapon within a thousand feet was because I brought one over, but everything is your fault and now you're dead.

Sorry.

It was just meant to be and we all need to accept that.

Move on people. Stop being so disgusted at police killings.

 

[Bluekaveli]

FUCK THE FUCKING POLICE

I don't know why this is funny

 

[Crosseyes]

too late, to many citizens in America have guns legally and illegally. The police would literally not be able to approach anyone without facing the higher risk of being shot or assaulted.

Any measure to make police more hesitant in using force would have to involve putting themselves at higher risk. It's a step that really needs to happen. Ideally you'd disarm both police and the populace at once so armed encounters and resolutions are much rarer but good luck getting one side to disarm first...

 

[esms]

If the person was going for the gun, it was justified.
Like it, don't like it.
If he was not going for the gun, so be it but so far it seems as if they were.
People completely ignore whether things are even clean now and just immediately go into fuck the cops mode now.

Because these "people" know that the "He was going for my gun, honest!" excuse has been made before to justify police homicides that would otherwise be unjustified.

Forgive them of being skeptical of authority.

 

[Dicer]

If the person was going for the gun, it was justified.
Like it, don't like it.
If he was not going for the gun, so be it but so far it seems as if they were.
People completely ignore whether things are even clean now and just immediately go into fuck the cops mode now.

Operative word there...

He was being tazed, which you can clearly hear, which means he was probably flailing a bit, guess his hand grazed the officers belt and that became "omg he has my gun" and then they did what the police in this country seem to do best as of late...

There was no need for that many shots...

 

[Alligatorjandro]

I'm sure there was a good reason for this and there was no other alternative.

 

[Hex]

Operative word there...

He was being tazed, which you can clearly hear, which means he was probably flailing a bit, guess his hand grazed the officers belt and that became "omg he has my gun" and then they did what the police in this country seem to do best as of late...

There was no need for that many shots...

This is something that people fail to accept.
You do not shoot to wound, or shoot to disarm.
That is for movies.
You shoot center mass until dead.
Is it right? *shrug*
But it is what you learn.
Same in the military.

Because these "people" know that the "He was going for my gun, honest!" excuse has been made before to justify police homicides that would otherwise be unjustified.

Forgive them of being skeptical of authority.

You can have clear as day HD video and it would make no difference.
Definitely not saying that this is clear and cut and dried.

 

[gamechanger87]

Operative word there...

He was being tazed, which you can clearly hear, which means he was probably flailing a bit, guess his hand grazed the officers belt and that became "omg he has my gun" and then they did what the police in this country seem to do best as of late...

There was no need for that many shots...

The tazer was ineffective as they are more often than people like to believe. A taser only works under ideal circumstances. If the barbs are fired, they must both enter the skin and complete a circuit. If barbs aren't fired and they use the close range barbs it again requires perfect usage.

I think you are really jumping to conclusions when you think the taser worked and this guy happened to flail and get near his gun. That's not how they work.

There were 5 shots in total fired from three officers. Thats actually pretty good trigger discipline in the heat of the moment. When your adrenaline is pumping you usually don't stop firing. Also, you fire until the threat is neutralized not just a wounding shot.

 

[gamechanger87]

This is something that people fail to accept.
You do not shoot to wound, or shoot to disarm.
That is for movies.
You shoot center mass until dead.
Is it right? *shrug*
But it is what you learn.
Same in the military.



You can have clear as day HD video and it would make no difference.
Definitely not saying that this is clear and cut and dried.

Hex, I am in complete agreement. See my post below.

You never pull your weapon unless you mean to use lethal force. You shoot until the target goes down or stops being a threat.

All of you shoot to incapacitate people need to stop watching movies and playing video games because shooting to incapacitate doesn't really happen in the real world. Try the below to see why.

Go to your local gun range, do 25 push ups, then immediately grab a hand gun and aim for a 6 inch moving target from 30 feet away. This is what it would be like after getting in a fight, pulling your weapon out and aiming for an arm or a leg. It doesn't happen. You aim center mass.
.

 

[Kinyou]

Four grown ass cops can't control one man?

That's what I take from the video. Even if the guy was reaching for the cops gun, the cops should have never let that happen in the first place. They did a piss poor job and someone ended up getting killed.

 

[Dicer]

That's what I take from the video. Even if the guy was reaching for the cops gun, the cops should have never let that happen in the first place. They did a piss poor job and someone ended up getting killed.

It really seems from every video we wend up seeing that Officers need better and/or refresher training...It shouldn't take 4+ officers to handle one offender yet we see it constantly.

 

[jmood88]

I can understand them restraining him since he was fighting them but I don't understand why, when they had 4 officers on top of him, that they felt the need to shoot him 5 times. Even if he somehow had a gun (which I don't believe), there's no way that he could have done anything with it in the position he was in.

 

[GK86]

Cops in this country are a complete joke. RIP.

 

[King Cobra]

FUCK THE FUCKING POLICE


I can't wait for the "he was going for my gun" BS.

Again...FUCK THE POLICE. You have a problem deal with that shit. Too many people have been murdered a the drop of a hat. I don't care what the officer said, too many incidents of them yelling BS out loud to give them probable cause to kill people.

You can clearly tell who comes here already with a notion to make a total clown of themselves with their persecutory delusions without even watching the video.


You can clearly tell this guy was reaching for the officer’s gun to do harm, this is a very clear cut case of justifiable force and commend the officers for even waiting that long after seeing the suspects intentions were clearly not right.

 

[MWS Natural]

This shit gets so tiring.
I used to think that GAF was better than this.

Watched on mute or maybe fast forwarded?

It is amazing how with any cop thread on gaf it immediately brings out the worst in people.
People immediately ignore facts just to throw in their hate and venom, even in threads where acts are justified.

I never thought the police was better than this, the continue to deliver with incompetence and cowardice. 9 Police officers to subdue two people and it still results in a death? Just how poorly trained and shitty do you have to be at your job?

Cops in this country are a complete joke. RIP.

Exactly. The reason things are still the way they are because of the police apologizers like some in this thread.

 

[Dicer]

You can clearly tell who comes here already with a notion to make a total clown of themselves with their persecutory delusions without even watching the video.


You can clearly tell this guy was reaching for the officer’s gun to do harm, this is a very clear cut case of justifiable force and commend the officers for even waiting that long after seeing the suspects intentions were clearly not right.

Not the word I would use to describe this at all...If it was clear there wouldn't be need for debate...

 

[esms]

You can have clear as day HD video and it would make no difference.
Definitely not saying that this is clear and cut and dried.

Which says something about our police force on the whole, doesn't it?

 

[GK86]

Lol clearly. Please link the HD video you watched, King Cobra.

 

[PirateKing]

You can clearly tell who comes here already with a notion to make a total clown of themselves with their persecutory delusions without even watching the video.


You can clearly tell this guy was reaching for the officer’s gun to do harm, this is a very clear cut case of justifiable force and commend the officers for even waiting that long after seeing the suspects intentions were clearly not right.

Then tell me how four cops on top of a faced down homeless man on the ground can "reach" to the officer's gun and a pose a threat especially when tasered before?

 

[King Cobra]

Not the word I would use to describe this at all...If it was clear there wouldn't be need for debate...

As others have said we could have HD video and we would still have members running to this thread and tripping over themselves to be the first to say..

FUCK THE FUCKING POLICE

You know what else is tiring? Zero accountability for police use of lethal force and stonewalling any discussion about reform.

To have proper discourse you need to have 2 level headed opinions, not "FUCK THE FUCKING POLICE" That is the equal to playing chess with a pigeon.

 

[Valhelm]

If he obtained a gun, I don't see how the officers reacted incorrectly. The video shows what looks like him reaching for their weapon. So let's not go on assuming things before we know what happened because we really don't.

Even if he did have a gun, this needs to be investigated. Police should not have the right to kill somebody just because they feel threatened. I'm pretty tired of police lives being considered more sacred than others', especially because they're supposed to be the ones defending the public.

 

[TTUVAPOR]

people rush to conclusions so fast because of some dude filming cops shoot a person. the video clearly shows the guy punching the cops.. first mistake.
then if you even try to touch a cops gun, you're making a second mistake.

double standard going on here. oh they tased him, they didnt need to shoot the guy, he was harmless.

lunching a cop, going for his gun...resisting arrest yeah, harmless.

like always, the videos never show what was happening prior to the scuffle.


edit, i forgot, the guy calling the black cop a sell out... wow. what drives people to think so illogically?

do blacks tbink black cops are suddenly gonna turn off their cop status and protest?

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Sad..just sad.

 

[TTUVAPOR]

Even if he did have a gun, this needs to be investigated. Police should not have the right to kill somebody just because they feel threatened. I'm pretty tired of police lives being considered more sacred than others', especially because they're supposed to be the ones defending the public.

if your life is threatened and you have a gun pointed at you... you think talking them down will work? man, let cops do their f'ing job.

 

[M0nochromatic]

There's a huge problem when supposedly trained police officers who outnumber a homeless man can't physically subdue him. If the cops were halfway competent at their jobs he shouldn't have been able to go for their belts, not that he ever actually aimed a gun at any of them.

I understand those that side with the police don't won't to hear "fuck the cops" , but what about "fuck the system that allows mass incompetency on behalf of officers and also prevents any repercussions for acting unethically and abusing authority"?

 

[Maxim726X]

Because these "people" know that the "He was going for my gun, honest!" excuse has been made before to justify police homicides that would otherwise be unjustified.

Forgive them of being skeptical of authority.

I know that there is a lot of ill will towards the police right now, and justifiably so. Most of the time, I'm right there with you. I was actively furious watching the Garner video, and even more so when the fucking 'blue line' protected a murderer. But let's try to keep things in perspective. The suspect was violent and unpredictable. He may have very well been reaching for a weapon.

Would you rather the guy get a hold of his weapon and start spraying bullets into the crowd and the police?

You struggle with the police, violently, things might not go your way. Maybe he was reaching for the gun, we may never know.

 

[Mesousa]

Dude went full Haggar with that spin move in the beginning.

Sad, but he committed suicide by cop there.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

It really seems from every video we wend up seeing that Officers need better and/or refresher training...It shouldn't take 4+ officers to handle one offender yet we see it constantly.

How many should it take? Have you ever tried to physically restrain a combative person that is vigorously resisting your attempts at restraining them?

I have and even with training I can tell you it isn't always easy. Not defending the quick use of lethal force but sometimes yea, it can take more than one person to subdue someone.

 

[Trojita]

Does the LAPD mostly use retention equipped handgun holsters? I assumed most police forces were using them by now.

 

[MemoryHumanity]

Pretty sure the officer shouts "drop the gun" or something similar. Dude was almost definitely reaching for his gun. Fucked up situation that wouldn't have happened in most countries.

 

[esms]

To have proper discourse you need to have 2 level headed opinions, not "FUCK THE FUCKING POLICE" That is the equal to playing chess with a pigeon.

This is the problem, though. When people peacefully protest or petition their local department for changes or pressure politicians with reform, they are called "thugs" by the police and their unions. If they even criticize the police just a little bit, then damn near the entire force will literally turn their back on that individual.

So, you see, FUCK THE FUCKING POLICE is said out of desperation. I've said this before. When you try and engage in a reasonable manner in an appropriate forum, you are shut down. Thus, because there are those that desire reform, but have come to terms with the fact that they are simply never going to get it, or at least get it in a timely fashion, this is all they can say.

And I don't blame them.

I know that there is a lot of ill will towards the police right now, and justifiably so. Most of the time, I'm right there with you. I was actively furious watching the Garner video, and even more so when the fucking 'blue line' protected a murderer. But let's try to keep things in perspective. The suspect was violent and unpredictable. He may have very well been reaching for a weapon.

Would you rather the guy get a hold of his weapon and start spraying bullets into the crowd and the police?

You struggle with the police, violently, things might not go your way. Maybe he was reaching for the gun, we may never know.

I am in no way absolving the homeless person or the cops. Maybe they were justified. Even video evidence can't help us on this front anymore, it seems.

But what I do want is some accountability. Independent investigatory boards, citizen advisory panels, other countless simple things that would go a long way in weeding out the shittier cops.

 

[Cavalier]

The perp fired the first shot even before cops had their guns drawn.

I see no problem here. Moving on. Internet will bitch and moan as always. Eh.

 

[M.Bluth]

This is something that people fail to accept.
You do not shoot to wound, or shoot to disarm.
That is for movies.
You shoot center mass until dead.
Is it right? *shrug*
But it is what you learn.
Same in the military.

That's probably part of the problem. Police isn't the fucking military.

There were 5 shots in total fired from three officers. Thats actually pretty good trigger discipline in the heat of the moment. When your adrenaline is pumping you usually don't stop firing. Also, you fire until the threat is neutralized not just a wounding shot.

There are no words...

man, let cops do their f'ing job.

Considering their job description seems to have become escalating and killing people left and right, they have been doing their job brilliantly.

 

[TTUVAPOR]

Considering their job description seems to have become escalating and killing people left and right, they have been doing their job brilliantly.

I get it you're anti-cop.

People jump to conclusions so quickly.

Would a slap in the face be more suffice for this situation?

I think all our police should just slap people, slap them till they fall down, and then slap them some more into submission.

 

[M.Bluth]

I get it you're anti-cop.

People jump to conclusions so quickly.

Would a slap in the face be more suffice for this situation?

I think all our police should just slap people, slap them till they fall down, and then slap them some more into submission.

I'm not "anti-cop." Wanting better police that isn't a threat to the community they're supposed to be "protecting and serving" isn't too much to ask for.

IF anything, pretending as if the glaring and relentless problems with police in the US does more disservice to police than someone who has said "fuck the police"

 

[TTUVAPOR]

I'm not "anti-cop." Wanting better police that isn't a threat to the community they're supposed to be "protecting and serving" isn't too much to ask for.

IF anything, pretending as if the glaring and relentless problems with police in the US does more disservice to police than someone who has said "fuck the police"

I don't deny we have crooked cops in our country, but people are so quick to watch a video (even the citizens in the video are doing this) and see cops and a black guy getting slammed to the ground, shot or not shot...they are quick to judgment.

We live in a day and age now where if a black dude is breaking the law, the includes punching a cop, not obeying a cop, etc...that person shouldn't be dealt with deadly force...instead...we want to slap his wrist or talk him down...meanwhile, that black dude can rage as hard as he wants.

Next time you get pulled over for traffic violation, try going for the cop's gun, or better yet, step out of the car, approach the cop and try to punch him. See what happens.

Like I said in an earlier post, it's a double standard. People want to punch cops but not get harmed in doing it.

 

[M.Bluth]

We live in a day and age now where if a black dude is breaking the law, the includes punching a cop, not obeying a cop, etc...that person shouldn't be dealt with deadly force...instead...we want to slap his wrist or talk him down...meanwhile, that black dude can rage as hard as he wants.

Deadly force should be the last resort. A police officer's job does not include being judge and executioner.

Next time you get pulled over for traffic violation, try going for the cop's gun, or better yet, step out of the car, approach the cop and try to punch him. See what happens.

Well, unlike so many recent examples of police misconduct, I, and any reasonable citizen, would know not to escalate a situation.

Also, we should expect a little more out of a trained professional police officer. They're not supposed to act like a deranged person, like the example you're posing, nor should they immediately shoot a deranged person, either.

 

[Foxy Fox 39]

You can clearly tell who comes here already with a notion to make a total clown of themselves with their persecutory delusions without even watching the video.


You can clearly tell this guy was reaching for the officer’s gun to do harm, this is a very clear cut case of justifiable force and commend the officers for even waiting that long after seeing the suspects intentions were clearly not right.

Persecutory complex? Oh geez I can ignore the rest of this post.

 

[Forerunner]

Are cops not trained to be able to deescalate a situation and thus avoid resistance? Are cops not trained well enough to be able to shoot to incapacitate instead of shooting to kill every fucking time...?

Sounds to me like these skills are very basic and necessary for any half-decent policing. But obviously, we have too many incompetent cops.

You're trained to use the most reasonable amount of force, depending on the situation. This ranges from the lowest tier which consist of verbal commands and verbal manipulation all the way up to the highest, which is deadly force. A situation can escalate or deescalate very rapidly, so you have to know when to use the approximate amount of force. When it comes to shooting, the way I was taught, you shoot until the target is incapable of what they were doing.

 

[TheJLC]

You're trained to use the most reasonable amount of force, depending on the situation. This ranges from the lowest tier which consist of verbal commands and verbal manipulation all the way up to the highest, which is deadly force. A situation can escalate or deescalate very rapidly, so you have to know when to use the approximate amount of force. When it comes to shooting, the way I was taught, you shot until the target in incapable of what they were doing.

Yup. Shoot to stop the threat by shootin toward the safest and biggest area of the body which is center mass.

 

[LaserBuddha]

I'd like to point out this is an example of how having all cops wear a gun on their belts at all times makes things more dangerous for everyone involved.


EDIT: Are we ever not going to have to have the center-of-mass discussion?

 

[Christopher]

Thiis "blue wall of silence" shit is so stupid - cops get pressed all the time if they even have an allegation of wrong doing from your superiors, internal affairs, civilian complaints review boards, anonymous phone calls on each other all the time- please stop watching the movies, and presenting information that you think is true, it's not at all.