People think that staying silent actually works when general orders and laws not only prohibit it but ensure that officers are investigated and held accountable if they do it.
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Deadly LAPD shooting of homeless man on skidrow is caught on video
- Thread starter JackLongRod
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Should we go the UK way and just wear batons?
Maybe here in M'erica, all our cops should carry Louisville Sluggers...no guns. Then we'll have bat fights.
Foxy Fox 39
Banned
So this American life not only aired one episode that was untrue but THREE separate episodes that were just all lies.
Oh and every other article on it is just aping the movies.
Edit: your post is so silly it's painful. Should I believe a cop who has consistently shown no empathy or police accountability or should I believe the myriad or reporters, journalists, and whistle blowing cops?
Foxy Fox 39
Banned
You must've watched a different video.
Dreams-Visions
Member
I mean, it didn't appear for lack of effort. I don't think they even believed this guy to be the type that would try to snatch an officer's gun. IDK man. Sounds like he was a known fellow around those parts, and though they probably should have been more careful and better trained in whatever wrestling holds that would have brought this man under control...they didn't or couldn't. Perhaps because he was known, they were a bit careless (thinking him less of a threat to others than to himself). Apparently they even attempted to taser him at some point with no success (clearly). Seems like in the scuffle he caught them off guard by actually going for one of their guns. And really...in what bizarro world would anyone expect a fairly well-known (infamous) homeless guy to actually reach. for. your. sidearm. Around a group of cops? Talk about suicide by cop.
Sane or not, you can't let someone get a firearm in this situation. It's really sad that he was able to get a hand on one of their guns at all, but he did so they did what they needed to do.
How many firings and/or prosecutions are there?
GeekyDad
Member
Despite all the police-are-automatically-in-the-wrong sentiment in this thread, judging solely from the audio on the video (the only thing that is clear enough to discern), sounded like the guy grabbed one of the officers' guns. I heard what sounded like one of the officers demanding his gun back. Bad situation all around, but seems like it's a bit too soon for all this anti-police sentiment.
soundahfekz
Member
LaserBuddha
Member
You know if you are going to have a bunch of cops wrestle a homeless guy, maybe wearing guns for that isnt the best thing?
Are you for freaking real dude?
You want the cops to remove their guns, place them In their cars, lock their cars...then approach the guy?
Are we gonna have UFC break out on the sidewalk?
Get out of dreamworld and come back to reality.
LaserBuddha
Member
If you can stop being a braying jackass for a moment, consider the fact that there are millions of police and security personnel in the U.S. and around the world who deal with these situations without a firearm.
AtomicShroom
Member
Yes, because no other more dangerous threats could possibly manifest themselves while cops wrestle a homeless guy... Like, you know, bystanders using this moment of weakness to overtake the weaponless cops? Jeez you people.
LOL...what...mall cops?
Which you could tell was the only thing holding the mob back from going to war on the cops, including the "sell-out" cop.
Foxy Fox 39
Banned
Americans are so silly
TumblingHippo
Member
All it seems to take nowadays is for an officer to just shout "stop resisting!" even if you're doing nothing and any force against you can be justified.
This is what it's come to with cops, when they can say things like "well he was trying to take my gun" and it's at a point where you're not sure if that was actually true.
Foxy Fox 39
Banned
He's going for my gun is code for I want to kill someone
LaserBuddha
Member
So imagine the most extreme scenario in this incident where the cops might want a gun, and thats how we evaluate things? What if we imagine the most extreme scenario in which it is safer that they don't have guns, like what actually ended up happening? What then?
Okay, let me explain something so you can understand what we are talking about here.
Mall cops dont make physical contact with people.
Security and bouncers at just about every bar, club, or event you can think of, and police officers in countries where police dont carry guns, deal with these situations without a gun.
It is a bit different in instances where gun possession isnt like the U.S., but there is a choice in situations that develop slowly enough to assess the risk.
This actually happened on camera during a stop. I wouldnt be able to find it but a cop was yelling "Let go of my gun" or something to set himself up for a clean kill. I think it was the same one where a cop came in diagonally to slam his car into the suspect's car after it was already stopped.
King Cobra
Banned
I understand the people protesting and rioting on the street in real life and their actions to an extent. But no one is arguing against their actions right now, we are talking about the people who consistently go to these threads just to say things like that without anything to contribute to the discussion. I do not buy the ridiculous "cry of desperation" for a single second, not a single GAF member is being pepper sprayed or fired rubber bullets at while posting so feeling like your rights are being stripped away from your very hands because you read about something online while you were on your computer doesn't really convince many others here that you are in right to just spew the same poison over and over again. That’s why many people on here are showing their discontent for this more and more. It prevents ACTUAL debate from happening by making a caricature of their own side.
It's really for your own interest to refrain from saying things like that because you start to get more and more people siding with the oppsoing force when you make sure broad statements like that. Not to mention that generalizing all police like that shows that they have the exact same trait that they hate so much from police officers.
Even if, this has got to be one of the most identifiable way to pick out who is sheltered and still expecting our officers to be absolute saints despite being in real life or death danger. You will find those in every single thread, even if the other person had a gun, even if they were aiming it at them, "even if" tells a lot about how little you know about what an officer goes through.
Look for that phrase everyone, EVEN IF, it's really comical once you start seeing how many people don't have the slightest clue what they are talking about.
How did you crack this code, take your findings to the justice department because you just made a breakthrough. I am sure with your iron clad logic they will finally be able to imprison every single officer.
Shamrock7r
Member
Exactly, and even if he did get the gun, the cops could have judo chopped him, put him in a sleeper hold, or dodged the bullets.
I can't lie - I read your post, then looked at your profile and saw you were from Florida, and laughed. And we'll all keep an eye out for anything that begins with "even if" and ignore appropriately. Thank you for the tip.
If they can kill a black guy without accountability, they can kill a white guy without accountability. It's happened before and it will happen again. It's a cry of desperation because these are human rights we are talking about here. The right to due process is a basic human right, one that is usurped by police if they resort to deadly force without doing their due diligence.
Listen, brotha. I've been subject to police intimidation before and I'm fucking white. The rights of the individual do affect the rights of the whole.
No offense, but your last paragraph makes you sound like a cop. I'll stop generalizing and saying that there are no good cops, when those supposed good cops publicly speak out against the fuckery that occurs within their ranks. Citizens own the cops, plain and simple. When they're not accountable to us, who are they accountable to?
There have been multiple instances of police yelling "gun" or "he's reaching for my gun/his gun" even when the person has no weapon and hasn't reached for anything.
I read they tazed him or tried to and it didnt have an effect (possibly missed).
What about pepper spray? Don't cops carry that with them too? Could have sprayed the shit out of his face, and rendered him unable to do anything.
Sucks he got shot but, if he was (hard to tell) actually reaching for the gun, that is a big no no. It shows intent to harm/kill a cop and that will get you killed.
Unfortunate situation for everyone here, man loses his life, and it puts in more fuel for the fire of the bad cop stereotype.
There were multiple cops there, id take it they ALL have their own tazer? why not try to all use their tazers first, and then if that still doesnt work, spray.
What about pepper spray? Don't cops carry that with them too? Could have sprayed the shit out of his face, and rendered him unable to do anything.
Sucks he got shot but, if he was (hard to tell) actually reaching for the gun, that is a big no no. It shows intent to harm/kill a cop and that will get you killed.
Unfortunate situation for everyone here, man loses his life, and it puts in more fuel for the fire of the bad cop stereotype.
There were multiple cops there, id take it they ALL have their own tazer? why not try to all use their tazers first, and then if that still doesnt work, spray.
Mohonky
Member
I've never seen a police officer in Australia that didnt have a gun.
Miss.Selfdestruct
Member
The depressing thing is that there's been studies done on residents of skidrow concluding that a majority suffer a form of mental illness. Add to that the possibility of people also being under the influence of X substance to cope. You're not going to get individuals behaving rationally especially when you're bombarded by a bunch of armed guys in uniforms.
This is not the first time it's happened. Bet if cops were tried for murder, even if they got off free, on every single account, this wouldn't happen as often as it does.
JackLongRod
Banned
So you're saying it doesn't exist ?
GrizzleBoy
Banned
Exactly.
Poor?
Homeless?
Mentally ill?
Your life is worth nothing. Fuck you. If police fail to take consideration of your situation and somehow end up with a disorientated mentally ill person managing to grab at your weapons? Like I said. Fuck you. You are meat.
Die.
Maybe try not being mentally ill next time and get a job, bitch.
Most of the time they can. Imagine all the takedowns we never hear about because they are performed without incident and weren't recorded and posted online. This is obviously disturbing because of the loss of life but it is still anecdotal. That said, I don't have any expertise in police takedown procedures so maybe they did fuck up.
Dreams-Visions
Member
What exactly do you believe law enforcement officers should do if a suspect draws a gun on them, much less fires a round off?
This thread has made me realise why some people are always so quick to defend police officers. Somebody has to when the majority see fit to condemn the police before all the facts arise simply by virtue of them being police. It doesn't matter if there is video evidence or witness testimony in their favour, if they're wearing a badge, they're guilty. Someone dies on their watch, they're murderers at worst, grossly incompetent at best, and 100% at fault either way.
Few seem interested in separating bias from the facts and adopting an inquistorial approach to fact-finding, and that's disheartening.
No one is denying mistakes weren't made or that police corruption isn't a serious problem, but assuming guilt of law enforcement in every officer-involved shooting and calling murder prematurely doesn't do anything to help that cause.
This case is not as clear as the summary execution of Milton Hall (video NSFW). The officers in this case did try to de-escalate the situation and subdue the man, and from what we can see and hear in the video, only used lethal force when they believed their lives were in danger. It's an unfortunate situation but stuff like this does happen, especially with mentally ill suspects.
The fact these officers were unable to successfully taser the man does not make this murder, and neither does their inability to restrain the man.
Few seem interested in separating bias from the facts and adopting an inquistorial approach to fact-finding, and that's disheartening.
No one is denying mistakes weren't made or that police corruption isn't a serious problem, but assuming guilt of law enforcement in every officer-involved shooting and calling murder prematurely doesn't do anything to help that cause.
This case is not as clear as the summary execution of Milton Hall (video NSFW). The officers in this case did try to de-escalate the situation and subdue the man, and from what we can see and hear in the video, only used lethal force when they believed their lives were in danger. It's an unfortunate situation but stuff like this does happen, especially with mentally ill suspects.
The fact these officers were unable to successfully taser the man does not make this murder, and neither does their inability to restrain the man.
I was refering to his overall tone of the poor, homeless and mentally ill lives are worthless and should simply get a job.
GrizzleBoy
Banned
Precisely.
The polices failures leading to this mans death have nothing to do with his death.
Exactly my point.
Focusing on all the things they failed to do that wouldve meant he didnt die is the REAL pointless death in this situation.
The only way to solve this is to stop talking about the ways changes to police behaviour can stop people being killed for no reason and just to simply accept that he touched the gun and needed to die.
Stop watching movies/tv shows/anime., and there are no QTEs here with slowdown. You are trained to shoot center mass, the easiest (still tough due to movement and adrenaline) place to hit due to the size and amount of points where you can stop the action if hit. You have to remember heat of the moment and everything that's happening at once.
LEOs are not superhumans, as much as we would like to think they should be. They're not all ex-spec ops military either. You think they shoot hundreds of rounds every day like the SEALs/Delta? They don't have the time, nor budgets to allow that because of shrinking budgets due to the economy and "tax payers" voting down increases to match scaling economics.
So please, enough is enough with these "shoot to incapacitate" comments.
It's hard to see all in the video, but it seems like the subject grabbed an officers gun, and fired it, which lead to retaliatory fire.
Keep in mind there are civilians around and even a round fired from the gun even if holstered can unfortunately hit the officers or innocents in the area. That guy is not looking at the backdrop casualty risks like the officers "should" before firing (I know I was trained in that).
If it indeed played out like that, the shooting was justified. It is what it is. You're supposed to keep your weapon side away from a subject, but unfortunately you can't do this at all times. They tried tasing him early on supposedly and it failed to stop the action. This would lead officers to believe that this subject is either under the influence or part of the population (there is a % of people like this) that do not react to this as severely, and thus that is out the window.
BTW, batons are lethal force to others mentioning they should have just used this. The outcome from using them to stop the action could have produced the same result, or left the individual with serious lifelong injury/disability, which honestly can be reasonably quantified as equal to loss of life, period.
Honestly, this needs to stop here already. This isn't a statement about "these cops" like some defend here, this is a lump sum, saying ALL LEOs. It's insulting to those who are in law enforcement, who are honest, who risks their own lives for your own. Oh, but that's right, like that other guy in here said, the honest cops just cover up the bad cops...
AtomicShroom
Member
I used this one example, but there are countless other examples of situations that can quickly escalate from a peaceful routine intervention to a deadly situation in a matter of seconds. You just never know. There's a reason cops carry guns at all time: they have to be prepared for any possible shitstorm that might place their lives in danger. There is not any situation where it is safer that a cop doesn't carry a gun, not for the cop at least, considering they are the constant target of irrational hatred. What do you suggest the gunless cops do when someone points a gun on them? What then?
boiled goose
good with gravy
Regular police carrying guns is a hazard. reaching for my gun is becoming a license to kill.
Take away their guns.
If someone already has a gun on them, then it is too late to do anything. Guns should onLy be allowed on cops when they actually need them.
Take away their guns.
If someone already has a gun on them, then it is too late to do anything. Guns should onLy be allowed on cops when they actually need them.
shadowsdarknes
Member
In the US with such high levels of gun related crime, I'd want the police to have a firearm. Maybe if gun ownership rates were a fraction of what they are now.
I've heard of some college police keeping their guns unloaded.
King Tubby
Member
Oh come the fuck on. Am I supposed to be surprised that an "allegation of wrongdoing" from your superior or internal affairs is supposed to be some kind of high standard? The Civilian Complaints Review Board...that exists in NYC? Anonymous phone calls on each other, which rarely actually occur because of the blue wall of silence?
It involves staying silent when officers witness each other commit a wrongdoing. If an investigation is in fact underway nobody believes those officers just plead the fifth, they cover each other's asses.
shadowsdarknes
Member
Yeah except that those critical of the police do not wield the power.
Police continue to get off scott free without proper oversight.
For every person who instantly call the police murderers, we have someone say, "if you would have just listened, you wouldn't have died".
If a cop hypothetically went gunless and engaged a civilian who draws a gun on them at an inescapable range? Probably nothing they can do but get shot if they can't retreat to handle the situation differently. Unfortunately this is necessary to reign in how quickly they resort to shooting first. It can' t be sugar coated really. To reign in cops with how quickly they escalate situations with deadly force they will have to increase the risk of deadly force being used on them first. It's a necessary step.
Chie Satonaka
Member
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