HazySaiyan
Banned
Yeah the company came under a lot scrutiny when Linda was just running as senator, it's going to be far more intense now she's actually in government. That can only be a good thing.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
December Wrasslin' |OT| Dreaming of a Vanilla Christmas
- Thread starter Bronx-Man
- Start date
Filth.
FlammableD
Banned
The bit about the secret meeting with Shane coming in and offering to take over the entirety of creative as a consulting firm, and Steph and Hunter losing their shit is pretty nuts.
Biggest-Geek-Ever
Member
I fear Menome's grade for me is an F for filth.
Bluekaveli
Member
Dude masters had a great upside and he kept improving. Michaels saw something in him but like I said, he was dropped.
Carlito's music ruled lol
Cena's in the Marine mode, I think? 2005 ish. He's young and hasn't hit 10+ title reigns, you bet he was motivated to prove something.
As for Masters' gimmick
sf2fanatic
Member
Top 3 current themes
Roode
Kofi
Naomi
Roode
Kofi
Naomi
Into the Light
Banned
Throwback Friday:
Nocturnowl
Member
Hey SS 02 and 03 aren't that bad at all, why it's all downhill from there.
Masters was actually getting over I thought in that time period, but they started fumbling both him and Carlito early 06.
At least the build for SS05 had Kane and Big Show murking everyone, the more things change the more they stay the same.
serenewarfare
Banned
Great article from VICE. Totally unsurprising that Vince is the root of a lot of the issues with the company. What is surprising is how many people actually want Shane (and now we know Dunn by extension) to run the company. It's a sentiment I am seeing around and I am completely baffled by it.
of course you do
slightconfuse
Banned
Yo
Shoooooooooot
Shoooooooooot
But as far as I remember, people tend to say Steph is bad for business and is not liked by anyone, and hunter has a bad rep as well. I think it's pretty understandable people want someone with experience outside of his father's company and that doesn't treat everyone bad.
OwensIsNow is counting on you!
Uno Venova
Banned
So what you're saying is, no matter what, there's no happy ending here...
Shoot ;_;
Shoot ;_;
They announced 6500 which is definitely a fishy Dragon Gate esque number. But if they did anywhere close to that (like more than 2.5k+) its great for them in any case, worked number or not.
Sweeney Tom
Banned
Enjoy the chaos while it lasts
The only chance the indies have is seeing the E eat themselves
Onita draws. Wouldn't surprise me if that was the number. They built up Suwama and Miyahara forever.
slightconfuse
Banned
The shadow war is the best WWE storyline since summer of punk
WWE's post-Vince future basically boils down to two solutions
1) Shane takes over, but that means Dunn sticks around most likely
2) Dunn is gone, but Stephanie takes over
Maybe Dunn won't have as much influence on Shane, who knows?
I know nothing about the business nor the actual people, but I hope Shane takes over only because he is my avatar. #TeamShane
serenewarfare
Banned
Steph has a bad rep as a creative mind, and she doesn't run that side anymore. She did for a long while though.
As for Hunter, most reports are that he has a great rep with the talent as he's seen as way more approachable than Vince. And we at least have hard and solid evidence that he knows how to run a wrestling show with NXT.
There is absolutely zero evidence that Shane knows how to run a business or a wrestling show. None. His Chinese company went pretty much nowhere.
Didn't WWE Network originally start as a Shane McMahon idea?
serenewarfare
Banned
No. Shane had an idea in 2006 that the ECW revival should be a WWE website exclusive show. And given the TV landscape relative to the availability of adequate streaming platforms, that sounds like it would have went terribly.
That's the thing they point out, they don't want someone who can run a wrestling promotion and don't even care about how they interact with the locker room, they want someone who can run a business. Shane having experience somewhere else is most likely why he's being pushed by some. Even if he didn't achieve great success in China, he still has the experience of someone who worked in a real company in a real world.
That's what I think, at least.
Bluekaveli
Member
Everyone of these geeks need to see this shit.
That bullshit doesn't draw or sell, gimmicks do. Please bring back the old McMahon cabinet.
serenewarfare
Banned
But his experience elsewhere was a relative failure. I'd rather have the Steph/Hunter combo where the business side is an unknown and the creative side is solid than the Shane option where he has a terrible reputation creatively (according to Meltzer it's laughably bad) and a bad track record from a business standpoint.
You can't judge Shane as a businessman and then judge Hunter as a wrestling fan. I'm sure there are bike owners who bought bikes from Shane's company that talk about the 'workrate' of the bikes were great even if the company didn't go anywhere. WWE has been on a consistent downhill drop in revenue, advertising, and ratings with Stephanie and Hunter at the helm. NXT hasn't gained them any money which is why they want to tour with it.
Heyman said Shane was the one who wanted to do a weekly live internet show long before anyone else at WWE and that Shane wanted to do stuff with the UFC before the UFC got massive. And you mention the Triple H being approachable thing, during the Attitude Era most of the locker room considered Shane 'one of the boys' when Triple H was being separated and protected from his peers.
Sweeney Tom
Banned
Dunn's evil
Steph's evil
HHH is evil
Shane is incompetent
That's literally the WWE's options, post-Vince. The best choice, by far, is the guy who took his stocks out one day and peaced out to China for a few years to run an unsuccessful company (YOU On Demand, a PPV/VOD service that tried to be the Comcast On Demand or Netflix of China in terms of success and fell far short by all means)
You nonce, the entire thrust of the article is '...but everything goes through Vince and he has the final say'. So Vince is fucking himself.
He's lost it, he's well and truly lost it. And I kinda agree with the assessment of Hunter as well - they are struggling to pick out stars and utterly failing current talent by writing absolute and utter horseshit for most of them.
That's a good rundown of the situation, man haha
Sweeney Tom
Banned
Pretty much.
One sucked at running a business, one hasn't gotten that chance. The one who sucked looks far better, because if he's pushed aside, he's not coming back unless you beg AND plead. And if that ship sinks because of that choice to cast him out, there's nobody there to save it.
It's a huge gamble with far worse consequences than any they've faced in decades if it goes wrong, and it's unsurprising that we've already heard reports of stockholders keeping a realllllllly close eye on exit options if Steph/HHH get the keys. Because they expect it to go wrong.
serenewarfare
Banned
I can judge them differently because that's the sides of the business they would control if it went either way. Shane is not a creative mind. He has a terrible reputation for it. He's likely run mostly the business side if he took over. So I am judging him on his business history. Hunter would likely stay away from the business aspects and focus on creative, so I judge him on that. And he has a great track record recently. Stephanie is the unknown here and she would be running the business end of things. And we just don't know what she would be.
And there is no "Hunter and Steph at the helm" now, that article made that abundantly clear. Any drop in ratings, merchandise, and gates has to do with Vince because Vince is the be all end all.
And doing the "online ECW" idea in 2006 would have been terrible. Network infrastructure and video streaming capabilities were terrible at that time. It was a decent idea in concept, but there was no way to execute it properly at the time, especially so when compared to the option of putting the show on TV.
As for your Attitude Era edit, it doesn't matter how Hunter was perceived fifteen years ago. It is 100% irrelevant to today. What matters is now, and now he has a great reputation as someone the talent can approach and work with.
You also have to keep in mind from a lot of former office keepers interviews,
Stephanie has only ever done WWE. And Stephanie has ALWAYS been protected. She's probably made a twenty or thirty bad decisions that you don't know about because WWE compartmentalizes so deep that they can throw it on someone else and let it pass through the grapevine that it was never Stephanie's fault. That it was Steve in Accounting's.
Someone who has gone out and tried to do something by themselves solo vs someone who has been protected from any criticisms and backlash due to the company she works for when your business is stagnating and failing consistently. The thing you need is risks. Not the person who just keeps the boat sailing and letting it slowly but surely take on more water.
Stephanie has only ever done WWE. And Stephanie has ALWAYS been protected. She's probably made a twenty or thirty bad decisions that you don't know about because WWE compartmentalizes so deep that they can throw it on someone else and let it pass through the grapevine that it was never Stephanie's fault. That it was Steve in Accounting's.
Someone who has gone out and tried to do something by themselves solo vs someone who has been protected from any criticisms and backlash due to the company she works for when your business is stagnating and failing consistently. The thing you need is risks. Not the person who just keeps the boat sailing and letting it slowly but surely take on more water.
There's a neat quote in that Vice article about how they write for the week in the WWE and not for the future.
"'All Vince cares about is that night's shownot 15 weeks later, like how all other television shows work,' a former senior-level executive said. 'That's why you see astute followers pulling their hair out. There's no guiding principle other than that Vince is a carnival barkera promoter of a live event product.'"
"'All Vince cares about is that night's shownot 15 weeks later, like how all other television shows work,' a former senior-level executive said. 'That's why you see astute followers pulling their hair out. There's no guiding principle other than that Vince is a carnival barkera promoter of a live event product.'"
serenewarfare
Banned
Again, you can theoretically year Steph down all you want, but the fact of the matter is she is a total unknown. We can sit here and come up with "well maybe this happened" and "well maybe this will happen", but we don't know.
With Shane, we know. He tried to run a successful company and failed. When he was in WWE, his creative ideas were seen as a terrible joke both by talent and management. Shane is a known quantity and that quantity is terrible.
serenewarfare
Banned
She's not to them, but to us she is. We've heard nothing from within the company about how good or bad she is. That's the point. If we are balancing whether it would be better for Shane/Dunn to end up in control or Hunter/Steph, I'd pick Hunter and Steph 1000 times out of 1000 given what we know and past performance.
Shane/Dunn = at best shaky business leadership and bad creative
Hunter/Steph = unknown business leadership (maybe terrible, maybe good) and good to great creative