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December Wrasslin' |OT| Sinacember to Remember

K

klonere

Banned
Been listening to a bunch of the Brian and Vinny reviews of Nitro/Raw from the 90s.

The Sting storyline is super crazy ambitious. I can't see anything like it coming out of any wrestling company right now or perhaps ever. God I'm super tempted to resub to the Network to start back watching Nitro...
 
A

Aiii

So not worth it
Sephzilla said:
I 100% understand why Bret wouldn't want to drop the belt to an entitled drug addict who was clearly on a self destructive course and would rather give the belt to a guy who's a clearly up and coming star.
Click to expand...

The wrestlers don't get to decide who is the title holder before or after them, despite how much creative control they have over their own character. It's not their call to make, nor should it ever be their call.
 
S

Sephzilla

Member
Aiii said:
The wrestlers don't get to decide who is the title holder before or after them, despite how much creative control they have over their own character. It's not their call to make, nor should it ever be their call.
Click to expand...

Because not honoring contracts and risking getting sued when you're already at risk of going out of business is totally good for business.
 
B

British Monsoon

Member
Vince McMahon said:
He's the type of guy to make a verbal agreement and treat it the same as a signed contract, despite it not working the same at all.
Click to expand...

Agreed, but really Bret's a fool for thinking well enough of Vince that he'd stick to his word without a written agreement. I guess it depends on the promoter. Stan Hansen had a handshake agreement with Giant Baba that was honoured for 20 years, even after Baba's death.
 
D

Deleted member 47027

Unconfirmed Member
Refuse to work with your boss, and shit gets complicated. Everyone is a loser.

Especially Bret Hart's crybaby Hart-ass ass. That bastard. Shawn sucks too.
 
S

Sephzilla

Member
I'm just salty we didn't get Bret vs Austin at WrestleMania 14 for the belt. It potentially would have been Bret and the Hart Foundation w/ Tyson vs Austin.

Aiii said:
Not relevant to our discussion.
Click to expand...

It's absolutely relevant to the Montreal Screwjob discussion.
 
D

Deleted member 47027

Unconfirmed Member
Bootaaay said:
Agreed, but really Bret's a fool for thinking well enough of Vince that he'd stick to his word without a written agreement. I guess it depends on the promoter. Stan Hansen had a handshake agreement with Giant Baba that was honoured for 20 years, even after Baba's death.
Click to expand...
I don't know how much you know about Japanese Puroresu culture (I'm an expert) but

You can tell Hansen is cut from a different cloth than the circus that was going on in WWF at that time. And Giant Baba is a neat ass dude.
 
E

Empyrean Heaven

Member
klonere said:
? Bret said "Hey okay, I'll drop the belt, lets just not do it in Canada at Survivor Series, that would affect my drawing power in the future". McMahon & Michaels said "Okay sure".

McMahon broke his word on that matter. Would you as a boss break an agreement with an employee on a matter which you had given your word?
Click to expand...

In fairness, Vince and Shawn only broke their word when Triple H convinced them Bret wouldn't keep his end of the bargain.
 
E

Entropia

No One Remembers
Data West said:
WCW continues to stay winning
2b870173239c970348c37771a51d6da8.jpg
Click to expand...

The Rock also was a part of a CFL Team - the Calgary Stampeders
 
S

SenorPopOff

Banned
Aiii said:
Not what I said.

I said Bret's as untrustworthy as anyone else.

The man literally refused to do the job. So yeah, look at it from Vince's point of view. I don't care what Bret says about "being a company man." The proof is in his actions and his action at the time was to refuse to do business. And that's all there is to it.
Click to expand...

You are essentially saying that if I don't do exactly what you want me to do 100% of the time I'm untrustworthy. There isn't a person alive who has always done what another person suggests. Even a dog would think twice about jumping off a cliff because you told it to.
 
A

avengers23

Banned
klonere said:
Been listening to a bunch of the Brian and Vinny reviews of Nitro/Raw from the 90s.

The Sting storyline is super crazy ambitious. I can't see anything like it coming out of any wrestling company right now or perhaps ever. God I'm super tempted to resub to the Network to start back watching Nitro...
Click to expand...

Don't challenge Quackenbush.
 
A

Aiii

So not worth it
SenorPopOff said:
You are essentially saying that if I don't do exactly what you want me to do 100% of the time I'm untrustworthy. There isn't a person alive who has always done what another person suggests. Even a dog would think twice about jumping off a cliff because you told it to.
Click to expand...

The boss is the be-all end-all. You don't always have to agree with him, you can certainly advise him to take a different route, but at the end of the day, he makes the call.
 
D

DMczaf

Member
klonere said:
Been listening to a bunch of the Brian and Vinny reviews of Nitro/Raw from the 90s.

The Sting storyline is super crazy ambitious. I can't see anything like it coming out of any wrestling company right now or perhaps ever. God I'm super tempted to resub to the Network to start back watching Nitro...
Click to expand...

Think about that time period for a second:

We had the huge ass Bret/Austin/HBK/Vince story that was half work and half shoot going on.

While at the same time, we had the completely worked Sting 1.5 year long storyline happening.

What a time to be alive...
 
D

Deleted member 47027

Unconfirmed Member
I'm still waiting on Alpha Legion to reveal their dedication to Chaos was just a work, and rejoin the Imperium of Man.
 
B

British Monsoon

Member
Aiii said:
The boss is the be-all end-all. You don't always have to agree with him, you can certainly advise him to take a different route, but at the end of the day, he makes the call.
Click to expand...

If the boss didn't want to be questioned, then he shouldn't have used creative control as a contractual bargaining chip.
 
A

Aiii

So not worth it
Bootaaay said:
If the boss didn't want to be questioned, then he shouldn't have used creative control as a contractual bargaining chip.
Click to expand...

We keep going back to this, but Bret never had full creative control, he had some creative control. The company has creative control over the title belt. Bret has control over his character. Him going, "well I am going to lose the belt to the person I pick, not the one you want" was overstepping.

And I realize AFAIK none of us have access to the exact wording in the contract Bret had with WWF. I do think we can agree he never had the level of creative control some of the WCW guys had (Bret included)
 
S

Sir_Crocodile

Member
Sephzilla said:
I'm just salty we didn't get Bret vs Austin at WrestleMania 14 for the belt. It potentially would have been Bret and the Hart Foundation w/ Tyson vs Austin.
Click to expand...

It would have been an interesting path to take. Hart had already beaten him at SS'96 /w ring rust and wiped the floor with him at Mania '13. They could have spun a "can Austin actually beat Hart" story as well, and pointed to the fact Austin had never pinned - or made submit - Bret Hart. They could have had an owen vs austin match at No Way Out of Texas with owen vowing to paralyse austin permanently this time so he could never face bret at wrestlemania to juice things up even more.

The austin/hbk promos we got were of course great, but the match itself suffered from hbk's issues, both mental and physical.
 
F

Fox318

Member
DMczaf said:
Think about that time period for a second:

We had the huge ass Bret/Austin/HBK/Vince story that was half work and half shoot going on.

While at the same time, we had the completely worked Sting 1.5 year long storyline happening.

What a time to be alive...
Click to expand...

yet lurking in the shadows a few men would seek to destroy wrestling forever so they could protect their spot and feel over...


Nash, Hogan, Hall, HBK, and HHH
 
A

avengers23

Banned
Wednesday night wrestling

ROH
Adam Cole vs. Corey Hollis
War Machine (Hanson and Raymond Rowe) vs. Jon Williams and Trey Williams
Dalton Castle w/o The Boys vs. Mike Posey
RPG Vice (Rocky Romero and Trent Baretta) vs. ACH and Matt Sydal

TNA
Micah, Eli Drake, Crimson, and Jessie Godderz vs. Tigre Uno, Mandrews, Manik, and DJZ
Eddie Edwards vs. Mr. Anderson vs. Rockstar Spud vs. Bobby Roode

NXT TakeOver: London
Check out the OT here.
 
D

Deleted member 47027

Unconfirmed Member
avengers23 said:
"Plans changed." Who is the Dave Meltzer of Warhammer 40K?

How Games Workshop treated the Sisters of Battle was its own #DivasRevolution.
Click to expand...
Meltzer is still alive in 40k. He's the worst Psyker of all. "I don't know. Maybe?" Not a good look for a Psyker.
 
Z

Zach

Member
Pumped about TakeOver. I guess I should duck this thread for a while since there will be spoilers soon. Have fun, guys who are able to watch live!
 
K

klonere

Banned
avengers23 said:
Don't challenge Quackenbush.
Click to expand...

I don't think Chikara has the capacity to do something with the gravitas or seriousness of Sting vs NWO.

Closing down the company does rank alongside not having Sting go over clean though.

DMczaf said:
Think about that time period for a second:

We had the huge ass Bret/Austin/HBK/Vince story that was half work and half shoot going on.

While at the same time, we had the completely worked Sting 1.5 year long storyline happening.

What a time to be alive...
Click to expand...

Yeah, sounds great. When I wasn't watching. Sounds real good.
 
B

Browny

Banned
avengers23 said:
"Plans changed." Who is the Dave Meltzer of Warhammer 40K?

How Games Workshop treated the Sisters of Battle was its own #DivasRevolution.
Click to expand...
Oooooh don't go there... my collection has doubled in value, but with no new releases I'm very unhappy... but let's not derail into GW hating - we have enough to be bitter about here...
 
A

avengers23

Banned
Are they taping three episodes' worth of material tonight before TakeOver? Even with this London crowd, I'd be concerned about crowd burn-out before TakeOver itself took place. If we assume that they'll tape one episode's worth of material tonight, they still have the December 30 and January 6 shows to create before the next set of tapings on January 7.

Maybe they'll tape a few matches and buffer it with a lot of backstage interview stuff from the tour.
 
B

British Monsoon

Member
Warhammer > 40k

Actually, I better not get in a discussion about either. I'll just end up impulse buying a bunch of paints and figures again and I don't want to fall back down that money sinkhole, haha!
 
K

Kaladin

Member
avengers23 said:
Are they taping three episodes' worth of material tonight before TakeOver? Even with this London crowd, I'd be concerned about crowd burn-out before TakeOver itself took place. If we assume that they'll tape one episode's worth of material tonight, they still have the December 30 and January 6 shows to create before the next set of tapings on January 7.

Maybe they'll tape a few matches and buffer it with a lot of backstage interview stuff from the tour.
Click to expand...

They will probably at least do one "best of" week.
 
D

Deleted member 47027

Unconfirmed Member
Bootaaay said:
Warhammer > 40k

Actually, I better not get in a discussion about either. I'll just end up impulse buying a bunch of paints and figures again and I don't want to fall back down that money sinkhole, haha!
Click to expand...
Why do you prefer the weenie Warhammer to the amazing death and destruction of 40k? I figured you of all people would be in it, for the Emperor.
 
B

British Monsoon

Member
Vince McMahon said:
Why do you prefer the weenie Warhammer to the amazing death and destruction of 40k? I figured you of all people would be in it, for the Emperor.
Click to expand...

Chaos and the Eldar looked cool, also Orks are awesome regardless, but I generally prefer fantasy tropes to guns and tanks. Also, no undead, skaven or night goblin equivalent. I had a bad-ass night goblin army back in the day.
 
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