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[Ferrio]

Seems a bit high... I can see, maybe 500k. Especially since they have code they can reuse from Defense Grid.

1 Million though, for a sequel? For a Tower Defense game?

Sign of our stupid times.

 

[dLMN8R]

Sign of our stupid times.

Ok then, since the other guy hasn't responded yet (not that much time has passed yet, of course, maybe you can answer this for me:

How much, exactly, do you think games cost to produce?

Don't just throw a number out there. Tell me how you reached that number.

Tell me the number of people you think it takes to create a game, how much it costs to employ those people, how much extra business costs add to that total, and then consider taxes, the cut of the total money Kickstarter and Amazon both take out of the total, and then how much they need to profit so that they can continue to exist in the future rather than simply breaking even.


I eagerly await your response.

They want to create a brand new engine, and obviously create more than just a simple tower defense game here.

 

[Mairu]

Would have thought that they made more than enough for a sequel and were already working on it.

How much do you even have to pledge to get a copy of the game when it's released?

The lowest amount ($15) grants you access to all content that is successfully funded through Kickstarter. So if you contribute the lowest amount and they reach $1 million, you'll get Defense Grid 2. If they only hit $250,000, then you only get Defense Grid: Containment.

 

[Icarus]

A million dollars for a Tower Defense game

I dont think you guys understand what games actually cost to make if you want things like QA or "good art" or a reasonable amount of content. $1m is still really low for a budget on something like Defense Force. I'd bet that the original budget on the original was at least $2.5m given console skus and the like.

 

[Gilgamesh]

Loved Defense Grid. Will donate.

 

[dLMN8R]

I'll make it simple for people.

$1 million will let a game developer of 10 people survive for about a year, paying average-to-below-average wages.

 

[Mackenzie 92]

The lowest amount ($15) grants you access to all content that is successfully funded through Kickstarter. So if you contribute the lowest amount and they reach $1 million, you'll get Defense Grid 2. If they only hit $250,000, then you only get Defense Grid: Containment.

I see. They should probably word that different and specifically say you'll get DG2.

I kinda see this one failing as it is though.

 

[Wildesy]

Hmm. Loved the first one, excited for the sequel but...why do they need money ? The first one clearly did well on PC and the XBLA version probably reached 150k. Not to mention CS:GO.

Why risk their money when they can use yours?

 

[fredrancour]

Son. Of. a. bitch. They* finally found something to throw up on kickstarter that I will put up money for. Son of a bitch. God defense grid was so good.

*"they" is the world as a whole. I know kickstarter itself doesn't hunt people down.

edit: less sold after actually reading it.

 

[dLMN8R]

One of the guys is on Reddit answering some questions:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/wcjxg/kickstarter_defense_grid_2_hidden_path/

Why do they need a Kickstarter? They are pretty much on Valve's payroll now as CSGO developers. Defense Grid was very successful on Steam too. I have no doubt Valve would finance the sequel.

If we had the money to make DG2 on our own, we would absolutely do it. There's a lot that goes into a game business, and while Valve and us are partners on CSGO, it doesn't extend at the moment to financing our own projects.

WARNING: LOTS OF SKEPTICISM AHEAD.
I have the first one, and it's a fantastic game (it and Killing Floor were the reasons I created my Steam account). I also agree that TD is a niche genre and isn't very popular, but the first game has done incredibly well for an indie game:

• Top 10 sale every time it's on sale (except during big sale, for obvious reason)
• Very few sale (on the top of my head, I can count about 5, and that's included the latest 3 Steam-wise sale).
• Game is generally accepted to be top-notch (maybe a little biased, but wherever I goes, DG and Sol Suvivor are synonymous to TD.

Now they're saying they need 1 mil? Hmm, I don't know, how about throw in another Steam sale, see how much they got first? Apparently they doesn't need money that badly, since the lowest tier reward gives you DG1. Also apart from DG1, I don't know any other game from Hidden Path, and working with Valve in CS:GO? Excuse my bluntness, but so does Valve's employees' favorite grocery stores.

f you have any specific questions, I'll try to answer them.
Real answer: takes a lot of money to make games (especially ones with 3d art instead of 2d sprites), and we don't have enough to make DG2 on our own. We've been pitching it for several years but it's not f2p social (where the money is now in small games), or AAA (where the money is in big games). We still think there's enough interest to be successful, but that's what we're finding out by doing a kickstarter. Because kickstarters have been oversaturated, we wanted to change it up a little by finding partners (AMD, Razer) who could help us with getting the word out.
(and we've doing primary development on CS:GO for 3 years now, but that's a different question )

What happened to the profits the original made?

We were in a situation before with some investment that let us borrow money for DG, then pay back with its profits. Unfortunately we aren't in that situation any more, and the profits aren't enough to cover DG2 (we've reinvested heavily already though)

 

[tci]

Will definitely donate. Defense Grid is my all time favorite tower defense!

 

[benjipwns]

Son. Of. a. bitch. They* finally found something to throw up on kickstarter that I will put up money for. Son of a bitch. God defense grid was so good.

Yep, hope it can at least get to $500,000. $750,000 would be awesome to get that level editor and it on Linux.

Will be there day one for the sequel if they somehow manage it.

 

[web01]

What a shitty kickstarter seems like a complete scam.

 

[Symphonic]

What a shitty kickstarter seems like a complete scam.

...what

 

[A Human Becoming]

I have yet to play my Steam copy. I'd play it now if I weren't already head deep into Kingdom Rush.

 

[ZedIndyLil]

Monies will soon be flowing from me to this Kickstarter. By far my most played game of the last few years.

 

[sazzy]

So with Kickstarters, you have to donate money and when/if the project releases, buy it as well?

If that's the case, no thanks.

I'd gladly chip in 10 bucks for this if they gave me the game when its releases. But not like this.

 

[dLMN8R]

So with Kickstarters, you have to donate money and when/if the project releases, buy it as well?

No.

 

[sazzy]

No.

So you get the game for free when it releases? Just making sure.

 

[Brazil]

I'm ok with this. Defense Grid is one of the few TDs without free mazing options that I enjoy.

 

[dLMN8R]

So you get the game for free when it releases? Just making sure.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/hiddenpath/defense-grid-2

First, you get a Steam code for a free copy of the original Defense Grid (PC) game immediately: as soon as we know you are a backer, even before funding closes. Then in December (we estimate), you'll get a digital copy of DG:Containment, and after that you'll get any new DG content funded from this Kickstarter when development is complete. We'll also create a new private forum for backers that you can join.

 

[KO Traveling Hobo]

Huh. Didn't realize this was so popular. I thought the first one kind of blew, especially compared to the plethora of tower defense flash games out there.

 

[Hazaro]

Huh. Didn't realize this was so popular. I thought the first one kind of blew, especially compared to the plethora of tower defense flash games out there.

It's one of the very very few games that I chase a high score with.

The levels are pretty easy to beat, but doing them by the skin of your teeth and being the most efficient with tower placement and upgrades is what kept me playing.

I don't think any other TD approaches this one in terms of an overall package and presentation.

 

[Meier]

Color me skeptical too. It's easy to say they can't afford it, but it's hard to believe it. Good luck to them -- I'll look into buying it when it's out. The first one is fun and I bought some DLC as well.

 

[Card Boy]

What happened to the profits the original made?

We were in a situation before with some investment that let us borrow money for DG, then pay back with its profits. Unfortunately we aren't in that situation any more, and the profits aren't enough to cover DG2 (we've reinvested heavily already though)

This still doesn't explain what happened to all their profits. The game has done gangbusters on Steam, XBLA and they have CS:GO. You're telling me they still don't have enough? Bullshit. I bet members of the community can create those 8 levels for free rather than the 250000 asking price.

 

[R1CHO]

This still doesn't explain what happened to all their profits. The game has done gangbusters on Steam, XBLA and they have CS:GO. You're telling me they still don't have enough? Bullshit. I bet members of the community can create those 8 levels for free rather than the 250000 asking price.

Yeah... The whole thING sounds kind of crazy

 

[CecilRousso]

$15 for an expansion + a copy of the original + support of the developer + maybe DG2? I'm in. Some people are really overthinking this.

 

[MmmSkyscraper]

SMH at some of the responses in here, we need a Kickstarter for reading comprehension.

In for the $75 early bird.

 

[Offerizer]

I played the first game over and over again for highscores. If they can give me a new game with a map editor and coop I'll pay a lot more than 15$.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Hmm. Might go silver. I love me some Defense Grid.

 

[Ingueferroque]

Holy... David Perry (in the intro of the KS video) still looks so young.

If they couldn't make a big enough (and ongoing) profit from a Steam success game that has had multiple expansion packs released for it.. well..

 

[bangai-o]

i bought on pc and xbla. where did all the money go?

 

[GhaleonEB]

First kickstarter I'll give to, whole heartedly. Defense Grid is in my top 10 this generation, it's criminal we haven't gotten a sequel yet.

 

[CecilRousso]

The more I read about it, the more I like it. Multiplayer and a new game engine for DG1 would be awesome, and all that work will continue to go to the sequel, even if the final goal isn´t reached.

i bought on pc and xbla. where did all the money go?

Salaries? Operational costs? They do have expenses. It´s not easy for a small development team to save $1 milion based on a sales of a budget title release years ago, while doing contract work for others.

 

[Log4Girlz]

I heard that if you donate $1000 and above they'll personally drive to your house in their gold plated Lamborghini's and pick up the check

 

[bangai-o]

i almost bought again on Onlive too for kinde fire. they reworked the controls to take advantage of touch screen (tap a tower, pinch to zoom et cetera) bit i guess apple never allowed Onlive onto their device.
might as well send it to 3ds as well.

 

[MRORANGE]

numbers add up, this is a 33 man crew who want a minimum target of $250,000 to create a expansion pack, creating a new engine is not cheap for these guys and there counting on one game released 4 years ago to rake in money.

(I assume they are contracted to be paid for CS:GO when it is done)


Gonna kickstart this, the support alone they gave for the first one is enough to help them out, it's one of the only tower defence games that gets me excited.

 

[Goredrinker]

I love TD games and pick up pretty much every one that comes out. And I loved DG. More towers, more maps , MP and i'd keep buying expansions as long as they released them.

For some reason i'm hugely sceptical about the amount of money they are asking for. I've put in for other kickstarters well above the minimum ($375 for Grim Dawn, $150 Carmageddon and $100 for Dead State). This one just seems off.

To me it seems like the Kickstarter is for a new engine rather than the actual game. And that engine will be used in other progects, which is fair enough but the Kickstarter isn't for a new engine it's for the game. False advertising?

If I believed that the full 1 Million was for DG2 (still can't get my head around it) then i'd be in there with a decent pledge. Just can't do it...Nope

 

[CecilRousso]

I love TD games and pick up pretty much every one that comes out. And I loved DG. More towers, more maps , MP and i'd keep buying expansions as long as they released them.

For some reason i'm hugely sceptical about the amount of money they are asking for. I've put in for other kickstarters well above the minimum ($375 for Grim Dawn, $150 Carmageddon and $100 for Dead State). This one just seems off.

To me it seems like the Kickstarter is for a new engine rather than the actual game. And that engine will be used in other progects, which is fair enough but the Kickstarter isn't for a new engine it's for the game. False advertising?

If I believed that the full 1 Million was for DG2 (still can't get my head around it) then i'd be in there with a decent pledge. Just can't do it...Nope

It seems like you really just are overthinking this. But try this, put the title "Kickstarter for more Defence Grid" in your head and ignore what they wrote as the actual title, look at the step goals and the rewards, and then see if you think the pledges are worth it.

 

[acm2000]

the first game on kickstarter, actually worth kickstarting

Spoiler

still not gonna bite, im not paying for something up front that i know nothing about regarding the final quality, but will buy when it comes out if its any good

 

[vesp]

people act like 1 million dollar is a lot of money but your slightly above average programmer working full time in a big city makes anywhere between 75k-150k a year. 10 programmers working for a year is at least 1 million dollars. 10 people is not a huge project and 1 year is not a huge duration.

 

[Dynoro]

Really enjoyed DG so will happily fund (and treat some of the money as a preorder for the expansion/sequel)

 

[Glass Rebel]

Kneejerk reaction is that 1m is rather steep but Defense Grid was an exceptionally well-made game. For everyone who doesn't own DG this is rather sweet though, you get the original, containment and probably even DG2 for $15. One hell of a deal. I'll keep an eye on it.

 

[mclem]

I dont think you guys understand what games actually cost to make if you want things like QA or "good art" or a reasonable amount of content. $1m is still really low for a budget on something like Defense Force. I'd bet that the original budget on the original was at least $2.5m given console skus and the like.

One thing that people may have missed:

costing $1 million more to build than we can self-finance

The budget *isn't* $1m. The budget is $1m + what they can already self-finance.

 

[mclem]

Holy... David Perry (in the intro of the KS video) still looks so young.

Wait, is that a third significant gaming David Perry? I was already mildly surprised at there being two of them.

 

[mrklaw]

they funded the first one and it made its money back. so do the same for the second one. Seems a handy coincidence that they are exactly $1m short. Nice round number.

I find it odd how most of these kinds of things have the early tiers give you the product they are raising money for. On that basis aren't they just going to repeat the cycle of covering their costs, as they are shrinking the addressable market that will actually have to pay for their game when its made.

How about they put some tiers up there where you get a percentage back of profit?

 

[CecilRousso]

they funded the first one and it made its money back. so do the same for the second one. Seems a handy coincidence that they are exactly $1m short. Nice round number.

They explain on the project page that they don´t have the same possibilities to loan the money now as they did with the first page.

And of course you put a round number up on projects like this. When you sell the project idea to people, you want a simple project plan and a simple number. You don´t set number like $974 555 when you want people to talk about it.

Stop being that guy.

I find it odd how most of these kinds of things have the early tiers give you the product they are raising money for. On that basis aren't they just going to repeat the cycle of covering their costs, as they are shrinking the addressable market that will actually have to pay for their game when its made.

How about they put some tiers up there where you get a percentage back of profit?

You really have misunderstood the concept about kickstarter. And it´s a combination of preordering and supporting, not investment.

 

[mclem]

I find it odd how most of these kinds of things have the early tiers give you the product they are raising money for. On that basis aren't they just going to repeat the cycle of covering their costs, as they are shrinking the addressable market that will actually have to pay for their game when its made.

Possibly. It's important to bear in mind that's significantly more successful than not covering your costs, however. To quote Micawber:

Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen pounds nineteen and six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery

How about they put some tiers up there where you get a percentage back of profit?

Kickstarter explicitly disallows that:

What can be offered as a reward?

Rewards are typically items produced by the project itself — a copy of the CD, a print from the show, a limited edition of the comic. Most projects also offer creative experiences: a visit to the set, naming a character after a backer, a personal phone call. Anything that brings backers into the creative process is a great approach.

There are some limitations on what can be offered as a reward. Investment and loan solicitations are forbidden, as are lotteries, raffles, sweepstakes, and coupons/discounts on future goods. See below for more.

 

[Captain Tuttle]

Next up we can kickstart sequels to other indie games that struggled to break even, such as Audiosurf and Braid. The World of Goo sequel is probably held up due to a lack of funds as well. We should fund that too.

Yeah. I loved Defense Grid but I find it hard to believe they couldn't get investors. Part of Kickstarters magic imo is the fact that it is kind of a "last resort" for businesses. Naive, sure, but that's how I feel.

 

[elektrixx]

I can't find where donating a certain amount gets us a copy of DG2.

[edit] I found it. Provided they get to $1,000,000 we'll all get a copy.