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Defense Grid 2 Kickstarter by Hidden Path Entertainment [Ended, $271K funded]
- Thread starter Archie
- Start date
butter_stick
Banned
Meanwhile Penny Arcade have raised $457,380.
Pathetic.
Pathetic.
Mackenzie 92
Member
So a lot of people just funded some more DLC for the first game?
Agreed.
Um yeah I have to say this is not surprising.
But its a "good" tower defense game. I never cared for the genre before I played it.
Im glad it was sorta funded though and hope they find a good publisher.
CecilRousso
Member
It´s a sequel to THE tower defense game.
And while I can understand why they don´t get all the money, I´m still a bit sad about it.
Games are expensive? Who knows what big features were/are planned.
Anyway, I'm glad they at least hit the first goal. Looking forward to the new levels, hopefully it'll make it's way to the 360 as well.
CecilRousso
Member
It's bonkers for a kickstarter project, but not really for a game in general.
But the this result will probably be a good kick in the right direction to get DG2 started at least.
Ingueferroque
Banned
So, a 250K expansion pack for Defense Grid, that will still be sold for profit.. projects like this are going to ruin Kickstarter for the rest of us.
CecilRousso
Member
Sold for profit..........like 99% of all other game related KS projects?
What are you talking about??? If you funded it at 15 dollars u get the expansion. If you didnt you still have the option to buy it. This is pretty the idea of kickstarter..
Ingueferroque
Banned
It pisses me off that they want 250k for an 8 level expansion for a goddamn Tower Defense game. I'm sure they'll add new units and tile sets or whatever, but 250k for that?
It also goes towards everything else.
How much do you think it should cost them to make?
Palette Swap
Member
It should piss you off they want $15 from you to get the expansion, not that they'd need 250k overall.
Ingueferroque
Banned
Yes.
I never actually played my Steam copy of DG much.. but 8 levels doesn't sound like much if this has the standard TD formula.
Anyway, good for them I suppose. I just find it odd that a game like DG that has consistently been on sale and seemingly near the top of sales charts, hasn't been able to earn them any money. That is just bad management.
Well I suggest they pay for their own salaries, release a $5 expansion to DG on Steam and sell 100k copies of that in the first month.
They have their engine, their game is pretty well established amongst the gaming community, and creating new levels/assets for this existing framework should not have to take a huge amount of effort or time. (assumption being made here)
I wouldn't have any problems if they just labeled this KS as a DG2 Kickstarter and threw the DG1 expansion pack in as a reward tier.
faceless007
Member
It's like nobody saw the earlier posts about how much employees actually cost to keep working.
CecilRousso
Member
Maybe if you actually played DG, and then read their project page about why they need the kickstarter, you might be less angry about this?
Ingueferroque
Banned
Maybe if you actually played DG, and then read their project page about why they need the kickstarter, you might be less angry about this?
Yes I figure I should do that one day. I'm not really angry about it, it was just annoying to see the devs cry about not having earned anything from DG1 and then ask people 250k for an expansion pack.
I know people's time isn't free, but it just doesn't seem genuine to charge 250k upfront to fund development, when they could most likely just release it on Steam without prior notice and get the cash flow they need.
This is like Paradox going to Kickstarter to ask people to fund the next Magica expansion pack release.
I'm sure if they made this about DG2 and set the min. at 500k they would have easily gotten this thing funded.
15 dollars still gets you DG2 whenever and however they get that done.
Imp the Dimp
Member
That was fucking close wasn't it
This Kickstarter is a handout out and you know it, stop acting as their defence force. I imagine CS:GO has made millions in Pre-order money, why ain't they funding the game with that money? I guarantee you members of the community can make 8 maps for free just to get their name in the credits.
faceless007
Member
CecilRousso
Member
Well the point is that they don't have money to fund their own salaries, hence the Kickstarter.
So I ask again, given that the Kickstarter is here, since they can't fund their own salaries, how much money do you think it should cost them to create the expansion, and thus ask for that amount using Kickstarter?
I'm not acting like their "defense force". I didn't even like Defense Grid enough to fund this Kickstarter, so I'm indifferent on if it's funded or not. I'm just seeing so many people make claims about how "unreasonable" this or that price is without really explaining why they think it's unreasonable, or how much they should require to fund the game.
It doesn't matter if CS:GO made $100,000,000 from preorders. You don't know if Hidden Path is getting any of that money, or if they're simply getting paid to fund their studio throughout the duration of CS:GO's development.
They already explicitly said that CS:GO isn't getting them a huge profit (if any), so you're basically starting from the premise that they're outright lying about their need for a Kickstarter. If you think they're lying, then that's another conversation entirely to be had separately.
They want the money for overall development, not an 8 level expansion. If you could be bothered to read about the project, you would have found out that backing this with $15 or more gets you the expansion and DG2 when it gets done eventually.
Mackenzie 92
Member
I don't think so, since it won't be funded from this kickstarter, and that's a big if at this point, since they wanted a million to guarantee part 2.
Your $15 gets you an overpriced piece of DLC that they will probably sell for $5 and then later on for a buck.
hardcastlemccormick
Banned
Mackenzie 92
Member
CecilRousso
Member
Kickstarter is about trust and support, it´s not a store for preorders. If you feel uneasy about supporting a project, then you of course shouldn't pledge. . But please take Kickstarter for what it is.
cleveridea
Member
ugh horrible timing ending with release of sleeping dogs, last story, darksiders 2 and dust game.
already spent $45 on steam sleeping dogs and $50 on last story (for artbook/music and in case becomes hard to find), plan on getting dust this week also
just ran out of room to justify darksiders 2 (till its cheaper) and this.
already spent $45 on steam sleeping dogs and $50 on last story (for artbook/music and in case becomes hard to find), plan on getting dust this week also
just ran out of room to justify darksiders 2 (till its cheaper) and this.
Warm Machine
Member
250k is 3 people working for 1 year. It doesn't buy a whole lot.
That isn't how contract work plays out. No one, in any industry, does that. Companies at every level HAVE to make a profit to stay in operation. You don't get hired on to do some work for a company and simply have them pay what it costs to have employees because then you have no reason to be in business and you won't stay in business. There is a LOT of overhead to account for.
They undoubtedly created a budget and figured out it would cost say X amount to develop the title. They then went to Valve and said we'll do it for (X*1.12) or something along those lines so that they would profit and could account for budgetary issues. Any modifications from Valve along the way would result in change orders that would then increase the overall amount of the contract and they would use a similar system to determine how much they'd charge Valve.
Depending on their contract, Valve either just pays a flat rate or they (Hidden Path) bill them hourly at say $100-$250 per person per hour or something.
Well, I think people saw it and realized it wasn't true. There is no way a small indie studio is paying their average employee $100k. The average "mid-career" employee at Google makes $141k. The average at Microsoft makes $127k. We're meant to believe that $100k is on the low-end of things for an indie studio? Hah. A more realistic wage at a small company like this is probably $65-75k at most. $250k is probably enough to pay 3-4 guys for a year which is all a title like this really needs. Smaller companies pay lesser wages because that is all they can afford -- there is more upward mobility at a place like this though. There's a finite number of jobs at >$100k.
I contributed $20 as a fan of DG1, but that feels like somewhat of a rip off now that it's clear the Kickstarter will only reach the DLC level. I wouldn't have paid $5 for a few new DG levels, let alone $20.
I know we're supposedly getting DG2 eventually as well, but that's hardly a guarantee and it seems likely that the scope will be reduced if/when it comes out since the Kickstarter bombed. I'm considering canceling my pledge and buying the DLC or DG2 if/when they do come out.
I know we're supposedly getting DG2 eventually as well, but that's hardly a guarantee and it seems likely that the scope will be reduced if/when it comes out since the Kickstarter bombed. I'm considering canceling my pledge and buying the DLC or DG2 if/when they do come out.
faceless007
Member
I didn't say "how much employees make in wages" I said "how much employees actually cost."
Anyway, I get the impression from the comments that it's not really $250K just for the expansion, but however much the expansion costs with the remainder going directly into DG2. The more they make from the KS, the less they have to raise to fully fund DG2 and the more interest they can tell investors they have for it. The expansion is more like something to give backers sooner on the way to making DG2 than having to wait until DG2 is fully funded and finished. Of course, this presumes they'll be able to get the rest funded through other means. They seem pretty certain about that in the comments, but who knows how real that is.
faceless007
Member
Final: $271,712
I think it's overly pessimistic to say it bombed; they basically knew the $1m was crazy. From the comments:
That said...I still want DG2.
I think it's overly pessimistic to say it bombed; they basically knew the $1m was crazy. From the comments:
That said...I still want DG2.
faceless007
Member
DG: Containment releases on Steam January 23 (I think for $4.99 but can't confirm where I saw that). Backers have the final version activated already and the new levels are pretty awesome. There are 2 new voice actors including someone who should be familiar to Firefly fans. Trailer here.
They're also releasing 4 free DLC levels designed by community members, which will be free for anyone who registers on the Hidden Path forums.
Interestingly, according to Jeff Pobst's post-mortem on the Kickstarter, the final production budget for Containment was almost exactly $250K.
As for DG2, here's a bit from the last backer update:
They're also releasing 4 free DLC levels designed by community members, which will be free for anyone who registers on the Hidden Path forums.
Interestingly, according to Jeff Pobst's post-mortem on the Kickstarter, the final production budget for Containment was almost exactly $250K.
As for DG2, here's a bit from the last backer update:
faceless007
Member
According to the post-mortem they hired a PR agency to try to get the word out.
Oh well.
Harlock
Member
Defense Grid 2 announced for first half of 2014:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects...mail&show_token=a34740373123d171&play=1#video
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects...mail&show_token=a34740373123d171&play=1#video