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[benjipwns]

Kind of funny that even with a proven developer who is being very transparent and frank about a project, many people are still weirded out by Kickstarter and the notion of backing a project you want to see completed.

People complain about the industry not allowing devs to make games like this and screwing devs over with contractual manipulation.

Devs find a new way to get it done.

People complain that devs should do it the old way that wasn't working, because the new way is scary and different.

Yeah, there's an existing title there to see what it is. They say MORE OF THIS, ALSO CO-OP, ALSO MAP EDITOR and then a sequel.

It's not rocket surgery to see at least the first few tiers, especially since they had in the past discussed co-op and a map editor.

 

[rohlfinator]

Kind of funny that even with a proven developer who is being very transparent and frank about a project, many people are still weirded out by Kickstarter and the notion of backing a project you want to see completed.

People complain about the industry not allowing devs to make games like this and screwing devs over with contractual manipulation.

Devs find a new way to get it done.

People complain that devs should do it the old way that wasn't working, because the new way is scary and different.

Yep, and it's a damn shame.

Though I do think Hidden Path has mishandled this a bit with the tiers they set up. Gamers generally view Kickstarters as a preorder mechanism, and potentially paying $15 for just a map pack is not a great value (especially when a lot of people paid very little for the original game or its map packs).

With a "normal" Kickstarter, you pledge your money and either: 1) it gets funded and you get your game, or 2) it doesn't get funded and you don't pay anything. It's pretty easy to commit to. Here, the value proposition is wildly different depending on how much funding they get, so it's a lot more of a gamble.

They should have put up "Defense Grid 2" for a million dollars straight off the bat, and if it failed to get funded, put up another project for one of the lesser tiers (depending on how much interest there was).

 

[Baha]

Surprised no one has posted this yet but they made a video explaining several things, including the big one "Don't you already have enough money?". http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2UoIYByv9o

 

[gdt]

Yep, tried to jump back in. I must be dumb or something because this game gets very hard for me. Can't get past a certain level.

 

[Mackenzie 92]

Yep, tried to jump back in. I must be dumb or something because this game gets very hard for me. Can't get past a certain level.

It's a little broken since the best turrets are fully upgraded machine guns. Just spam those with slowdown and you can't lose, except for certain situations where something else is needed.

Yep, and it's a damn shame.

Though I do think Hidden Path has mishandled this a bit with the tiers they set up. Gamers generally view Kickstarters as a preorder mechanism, and potentially paying $15 for just a map pack is not a great value (especially when a lot of people paid very little for the original game or its map packs).

With a "normal" Kickstarter, you pledge your money and either: 1) it gets funded and you get your game, or 2) it doesn't get funded and you don't pay anything. It's pretty easy to commit to. Here, the value proposition is wildly different depending on how much funding they get, so it's a lot more of a gamble.

They should have put up "Defense Grid 2" for a million dollars straight off the bat, and if it failed to get funded, put up another project for one of the lesser tiers (depending on how much interest there was).

Agree completely. This is almost as bad as that Kickstarter that Vic tried to do for the special edition of Class of Heroes 2.

I would also add that I'm a little hesitant to fund a company that is seemingly not managed very well on the business side.

 

[poserdonut]

Jumped on it, loved DG so a no brainer for me.

 

[Romir]

VentureBeat picked this up! Hidden Path Entertainment places the fate of Defense Grid 2 in the fans’ wallets (interview)

I found it interesting that the original game had a development time of a year with around a dozen people working on it. They've also spent 300k on the DG2 engine already and will try to find a way to finish DG2 someday if they don't manage 1 million here.

I don't know why but I've had a surplus of good feelings for these guys and just want to give them my money. Maybe it was the music when their studio card plays when launching the game.

 

[suaveric]

I kicked in 15, but I'm going to feel a bit bad about it if I only receive the DLC in the end.

 

[Baha]

VentureBeat picked this up! Hidden Path Entertainment places the fate of Defense Grid 2 in the fans’ wallets (interview)

I found it interesting that the original game had a development time of a year with around a dozen people working on it. They've also spent 300k on the DG2 engine already and will try to find a way to finish DG2 someday if they don't manage 1 million here.

I don't know why but I've had a surplus of good feelings for these guys and just want to give them my money. Maybe it was the music when their studio card plays when launching the game.

Their portion of the Portal 2 ARG was my favourite part. They just hit 100K so things are looking good.

 

[BlazinAm]

If the first Defense Grid wasn't successful to fund a sequel why would I want to support the this? Also these devs are working on Counter-Strike. Looking at the Kickstarter page it looks like they are monetizing on a per feature basis something I thought was akin to the free to play model.

 

[ArjanN]

If the first Defense Grid wasn't successful to fund a sequel why would I want to support the this?

That doesn't even make sense.

 

[Prophet Steve]

If the first Defense Grid wasn't successful to fund a sequel why would I want to support the this? Also these devs are working on Counter-Strike. Looking at the Kickstarter page it looks like they are monetizing on a per feature basis something I thought was akin to the free to play model.

You don't know what you are talking about.

They are not monetizing any features, do you even get how Kickstarter works?

The first one was successful, but to create the sequel they want to create they need some more funds. Depending on how much funds they get they can increase the scope of the game.

 

[rohlfinator]

Looking at the Kickstarter page it looks like they are monetizing on a per feature basis something I thought was akin to the free to play model.

Not at all the same really. That's just for the Kickstarter fundraising. When (or if) the game is released, it'll be sold for a set price like the first game was.

 

[BlazinAm]

Not at all the same really. That's just for the Kickstarter fundraising. When (or if) the game is released, it'll be sold for a set price like the first game was.

I was looking at it like the Whale model that exist in the free to play business. Contributions are going to come rabid fans to fund their game. The thing is that they are offering a promise that they will go further in development the more money you give to them much akin to how the best items in a free to play game are the most expensive. To me its just off putting.

That doesn't even make sense.

Why doesn't it make any sense? They are asking money ahead of the release of a would be Defense Grid 2, makes me think that the first one didn't make enough money to fund a sequel or maybe that wasn't their intention which sound like a shallow business plan. To me it comes off as they want to cover cost and break even before a would be sequel ships.

 

[HBroward]

Come on guys, steam sale is almost over, time to get this project in gear. Spread the word! Gift your copies of Defense Grid in the Steam Summer Sale thread to help promote the kickstarter and get the word out!

 

[Deleted member 102362]

Yep, and it's a damn shame.

Though I do think Hidden Path has mishandled this a bit with the tiers they set up. Gamers generally view Kickstarters as a preorder mechanism, and potentially paying $15 for just a map pack is not a great value (especially when a lot of people paid very little for the original game or its map packs).

With a "normal" Kickstarter, you pledge your money and either: 1) it gets funded and you get your game, or 2) it doesn't get funded and you don't pay anything. It's pretty easy to commit to. Here, the value proposition is wildly different depending on how much funding they get, so it's a lot more of a gamble.

They should have put up "Defense Grid 2" for a million dollars straight off the bat, and if it failed to get funded, put up another project for one of the lesser tiers (depending on how much interest there was).

I agree, and this is why I'm hesitant to back this one.

 

[vehn]

why don't they fix CS GO first

 

[Deleted member 102362]

why don't they fix CS GO first

That's what Valve and HPE have been doing. The beta has been on lockdown for a few weeks, but should emerge out of that soonish.

I didn't know these guys were located in Bellevue. Interesting.

That's one of the reasons why Valve asked them to help with CS:GO.

 

[FloppyDelux]

sweet invested in the $120 donation, gotta support local companys.

 

[coopolon]

I agree, and this is why I'm hesitant to back this one.

It seems like it would be difficult to get your fan base excited for a second kickstarter after the first one fails. And even more difficult the third time if the second one fails, etc.

 

[Khal_B]

In for $75, my family got countless hours of playtime from this game.

 

[rohlfinator]

I was looking at it like the Whale model that exist in the free to play business. Contributions are going to come rabid fans to fund their game. The thing is that they are offering a promise that they will go further in development the more money you give to them much akin to how the best items in a free to play game are the most expensive. To me its just off putting.

I guess I just don't see the similarities. Assuming this succeeds, everyone is going to get the same finished product, whether you pledged $15 or $15000. There is no benefit to being a "whale" apart from the higher pledge levels which every Kickstarter does.

The stretch goals are different prices because it costs massively more to develop a full-fledged sequel than some DLC levels. It's not at all like a f2p game where the expensive items usually cost very little to produce and are just used to extract money out of the fans who spend a lot.

It seems like it would be difficult to get your fan base excited for a second kickstarter after the first one fails. And even more difficult the third time if the second one fails, etc.

That's true. Some Kickstarter projects have done it before, but it's definitely not a guarantee. Still, I think it would have worked out better than the current situation where people don't know which of four different projects they're actually backing.

 

[RadicalVelocity]

They've had my money for a while, but I did get in for one of the 6870s at the cheaper tier. I could no doubt get a much better deal online, for a better version than stock, but I'd rather give my money to DG.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

I didn't know these guys were located in Bellevue. Interesting.

 

[HBroward]

That's true. Some Kickstarter projects have done it before, but it's definitely not a guarantee. Still, I think it would have worked out better than the current situation where people don't know which of four different projects they're actually backing.

Well, they added a response to the Q&A section that states that any backer will receive a copy of Defense Grid 2 when it releases, even if the kickstarter does not reach that final tier. So there is really no reason not to contribute, you are getting at the very least a free copy of DG, and a copy of DG2 whenever it is finally released. If the first tier is hit you get the Containment DLC also, and it's a safe bet they will make it to that at the very least. Glad to see more people jumping in though, spread the word!

 

[Slermy]

We're at less than two weeks left and they still need about $80,000 more just for the expansion levels. I really thought this would have done much better.

 

[Card Boy]

We're at less than two weeks left and they still need about $80,000 more just for the expansion levels. I really thought this would have done much better.

1 million dollars for a Tower defence game is abit of a joke to be honest. I'm not the only one who thinks this otherwise they would got the money.

 

[Slermy]

Well, at this rate, I'm not sure they'll even hit the "$250,000" mark which would result in the new levels for the existing game.

 

[gdt]

We're at less than two weeks left and they still need about $80,000 more just for the expansion levels. I really thought this would have done much better.

Its just a little weird is all. Everyone has a lot of love for the first game, and wants a sequel, but its just a bit odd.

 

[dLMN8R]

1 million dollars for a Tower defence game is abit of a joke to be honest. I'm not the only one who thinks this otherwise they would got the money.

I've seen this sentiment in this thread multiple times. I didn't personally enjoy Defense Grid a huge amount so I'm not interested in contributing to this Kickstarter, but can you please describe what you think a game should cost to create?

• How many people are working on it?
• How long are they working on it?
• How much do they get paid?
• How did you reach these figures?

I really get confused sometimes. I think gamers really have absolutely no concept whatsoever of what $1 million actually is. It's a tiny amount when it comes to running a business.

 

[Card Boy]

I've seen this sentiment in this thread multiple times. I didn't personally enjoy Defense Grid a huge amount so I'm not interested in contributing to this Kickstarter, but can you please describe what you think a game should cost to create?

• How many people are working on it?
• How long are they working on it?
• How much do they get paid?
• How did you reach these figures?

I really get confused sometimes. I think gamers really have absolutely no concept whatsoever of what $1 million actually is. It's a tiny amount when it comes to running a business.

Why are you asking me to pull numbers out of my arse? It's up to Hidden Path Entertainment to list where the money is going and for what purpose. I find it even more rich considering they are working on CS:GO, regardless of whether they have being paid by Valve they shouldn't of gone to Kickstarter. Wait after CS:GO is done so you get paid and the self fund the game.

 

[Palette Swap]

If you tell 100k people the game will be $10, no one will frown but if you tell them you need $1m, everyone and their dog has an opinion on budgets and how much a business costs to run.

That 4 stage system is pretty awful though and I understand people feeling conned.

 

[dLMN8R]

Why are you asking me to pull numbers out of my arse? It's up to Hidden Path Entertainment to list where the money is going and for what purpose. I find it even more rich considering they are working on CS:GO, regardless of whether they have being paid by Valve they shouldn't of gone to Kickstarter. Wait after CS:GO is done so you get paid and the self fund the game.

I'm not asking you to pull numbers out of your ass. You're the one pretending like you know when a number is "a joke", so I'm asking you to explain exactly why you think it's "a joke".

If you think that $1 million is "a joke", why is it "a joke", what number would not be considered "a joke", and how exactly did you reach those numbers that separate the "joke" from not the "joke"?


They've already explained the reason for this Kickstarter. Valve is paying them for CS:GO development on an ongoing basis, but it's not enough for them to go and fund an entirely different game. The original Defense Grid did well, but they had external investors for that game and almost every bit of profit went into paying them back.

 

[EternalGamer]

Yep, and it's a damn shame.

Though I do think Hidden Path has mishandled this a bit with the tiers they set up. Gamers generally view Kickstarters as a preorder mechanism, and potentially paying $15 for just a map pack is not a great value (especially when a lot of people paid very little for the original game or its map packs).

With a "normal" Kickstarter, you pledge your money and either: 1) it gets funded and you get your game, or 2) it doesn't get funded and you don't pay anything. It's pretty easy to commit to. Here, the value proposition is wildly different depending on how much funding they get, so it's a lot more of a gamble.

They should have put up "Defense Grid 2" for a million dollars straight off the bat, and if it failed to get funded, put up another project for one of the lesser tiers (depending on how much interest there was).

The real problem is that this genre is now very over crowded and there are ALOT of cool twists on it that can be had for literally pennies. I liked Defense Grid but since it came out we've got great action oriented spins like Orcs Must Die, innovative flips like Anomaly Warzone and great coop entries like Sanctum and Dungeon Defenders.

And frankly there are like a million levels and challenges in Defense Grid. They did good but they did it right the first time. This project seems unnecessary. I would be much more likely to back an original project by this same team, something that wasnt just vanilla tower defense.

 

[JaseC]

We're at less than two weeks left and they still need about $80,000 more just for the expansion levels. I really thought this would have done much better.

I'd wager the $1m figure for a bona fide sequel dissuaded a lot of people from pledging at all.

 

[Card Boy]

As i said i'm not the only one who thinks it's a joke otherwise they would of reached their target. The delivery date says Dec 2012, what does this even mean? They are going to build a full blown game engine and game in 4 months? I know for a fact that's not referring to the Kickstarter rewards delivery.

 

[Suite Pee]

If they only meet the initial goal, it probably wouldn't take them more than a few months to make new maps on the DG1 engine.

 

[JaseC]

As i said i'm not the only one who thinks it's a joke otherwise they would of reached their target. The delivery date says Dec 2012, what does this even mean? They are going to build a full blown game engine and game in 4 months? I know for a fact that's not referring to the Kickstarter rewards delivery.

It's just a placeholder date. HPE's development duties are entirely dependent on what goal is reached, which means "delivery" times would vary accordingly. On the other hand, maybe it's the delivery date for the first goal (Edit: Since the $250k refers to the DG expansion).

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

It looks real hard they're going to meet their $1million goal; impossible at this point. Hopefully we get DG2 somewhere down the line cause at this point we are essentially just funding for an expansion pack.

I'd wager the $1m figure for a bona fide sequel dissuaded a lot of people from pledging at all.

It's a very reasonable price for a full-fledged sequel. Hell, I'm more skeptical of those asking $20,000 or $250,000 for an ambitiously massive title.

 

[desku]

$1mil for a sequel? That's insanely hopeful. I doubt they'll reach it.

 

[JaseC]

It's a very reasonable price for a full-fledged sequel. Hell, I'm more skeptical of those asking $20,000 or $250,000 for an ambitiously massive title.

Sure; in fact, HPE is comprised of 33 people, so it works out to roughly $30k per head, but Kickstarters reaching seven figures are the exception, not the rule.

 

[Thai]

Just kicked 'em 30$. Love this game so effing much. 13 days and 70 000$ to go guys, lets do it!

 

[GazzaScotland]

Just watched the newest update video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aq1RaM1MMYs

One good bit of info (maybe known before, but clearer now?) if you pledge you will get a copy of DG 2 whenever it comes out. Even if it isn't funded directly from Kickstarter, as well as the expansion, etc.

 

[Deadstar]

Love defense grid but I want the full sequel. No way this is reaching 1 mil and that's too bad.

 

[Jo-El]

Just watched the newest update video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aq1RaM1MMYs

One good bit of info (maybe known before, but clearer now?) if you pledge you will get a copy of DG 2 whenever it comes out. Even if it isn't funded directly from Kickstarter, as well as the expansion, etc.

I've been waiting for them to say this. Good news!

 

[Violet_0]

Love defense grid but I want the full sequel. No way this is reaching 1 mil and that's too bad.

I feel the same way about this. Since they're not going to hit the 1 million mark, I have no interest in funding their project.

 

[HBroward]

I'm glad this thread got bumped, I didn't want to double post. But given how they have said DG2 will release regardless, and the fact you get a free copy of it no matter what tier the project reaches, it's really a no brainer if you like the game. I think they just really messed up at the beginning by failing to properly communicate that, and even now it isn't prominently mentioned on the page, but buried in the Q&A section. I think this project could surge the last two weeks as long as people understand that they will get the game even if only the first tier is hit, it will just be a longer wait.

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

I feel the same way about this. Since they're not going to hit the 1 million mark, I have no interest in funding their project.

They just said that If you fund, you'll get DG2 when it's released. There's no loss here really...

 

[Slavik81]

Saw the bump so I backed it. I want to own DG2. I thought this one would be shoe-in so I didn't bother.

 

[BY2K]

At this rate it won't even make it to 250k...