Support NeoGAF

[Unknown Soldier]

What? Just because they are in power, doesn't not make them extremely incompetent.

What do you mean, what? What other goal is there in politics besides gaining power? If the Republicans are extremely incompetent, then the Democrats are literally single-celled organisms trying to evolve into multicellular life in comparison.

 

[Apt101]

I hope they realize real soon that the list isn't what they should be going after, but rather the projection of the same message Bernie did that energized so many voters.

 

[Ms.Galaxy]

What do you mean, what? What other goal is there in politics besides gaining power? If the Republicans are extremely incompetent, then the Democrats are literally single-celled organisms trying to evolve into multicellular life in comparison.

The Republican Party is incompetent, but their current base is just as incompetent and stupid so it makes their incompetence seem successful.

 

[Skyball Paint]

I hope they realize real soon that the list isn't what they should be going after, but rather the projection of the same message Bernie did that energized so many voters.

Exactly, and the people calling him out for not handing it over should realize this.

 

[War Peaceman]

I hope they realize real soon that the list isn't what they should be going after, but rather the projection of the same message Bernie did that energized so many voters.

WHY NOT BOTH

The list has important data that can be used to better plan electoral campaigns. It isn't just about soliciting donations. Look at Cambridge Analytica.


It is baffling that Bernie continues to be so intransigent. He is happy to use the Democrats when he wants to run for President. Be a goddamn team player. It is better when Democrats are in power than when they aren't. Work together.

 

[Bleepey]

They were screaming about Trump winning and beating Hilary since the primaries.

 

[royalan]

You do realize that's still breaking the fucking rules, no? Maybe this example can help you.

My team, the Patriots were "caught" "cheating" multiple times. I put that in quotes because I dont fully believe it's true. But anyhow, lets assume it is true. They broke the rules, they should get punished and reprimanded. Guess who they were caught cheating against. The Jets in Spygate and the Colts in Deflategate. They didnt need to tape the Jets to beat them, they are the fucking Jets! They didnt need to deflate the balls to beat the Colts, they were already thrashing them! But guess fucking what. They still cheated. Even if it wasn't necessary.

So yes, it is absolutely ridiculous to let it go that Brazille leaked a question, even if it was obvious. Because that's still against the fucking rules.

Did you read what I wrote?

 

[Dirtyshubb]

They were screaming about Trump winning and beating Hilary since the primaries.

And people laughed at them for it.

It always feels like the people that hate TYT are the people that TYT warn you about - corporate democrats/centrists who put financial gain above everything else.

 

[royalan]

And people laughed at them for it.

It always feels like the people that hate TYT are the people that TYT warn you about - corporate democrats/centrists who put financial gain above everything else.

TYT weren't screaming about Trump winning for the reasons Trump actually won. That's like saying that the person who believes the sky is blue due to Rayleigh scattering and the person who believes the sky is blue due to magical pixie dust are both right because they reached the same conclusion. TYT willingly push misinformation when it suits them. There's nothing to respect about that.

And frankly, Jimmy Dore spent the months after Bernie lost the primary encouraging his audience to not vote for Hillary, "Because guys, Hillary will be worse! And if Trump wins, we'll just protest!" The man is despicable and ignorant as fuck.

 

[y2dvd]

The Democratic base is split. Moderates failed and it's slowly shifting towards progressives. I don't see us going back to the former. While "we need to work together to take down evil" is a nice sentiment to have, it's not good enough for the growing progressive base. I don't see them getting in line unless the DNC sees a complete overhaul. Until then, we will keep bickering with each other.

Want the email list? Earn it from them.

 

[War Peaceman]

The Democratic base is split. Moderates failed and it's slowly shifting towards progressives. I don't see us going back to the former. While "we need to work together to take down evil" is a nice sentiment to have, it's not good enough for the growing progressive base. I don't see them getting in line unless the DNC sees a complete overhaul. Until then, we will keep bickering with each other.

Want the email list? Earn it from them.

WHY EARN IT

They are the same side for fuck sake. Stop being children and share the goddamn data. Worth noting that Hillary ran on the most progressive platform ever.

 

[Vagabundo]

If I was Bernie I wouldn't give them the list. I'd vet anyone who wanted to use it too.

 

[royalan]

The Democratic base is split. Moderates failed and it's slowly shifting towards progressives. I don't see us going back to the former. While "we need to work together to take down evil" is a nice sentiment to have, it's not good enough for the growing progressive base. I don't see them getting in line unless the DNC sees a complete overhaul. Until then, we will keep bickering with each other.

Want the email list? Earn it from them.

That's literally not how ANY of this works or should work.

Again with the double standard. If Hillary in 2008 had withheld any of her resources from Obama after the primary she would have been flayed alive. It literally disgusts me that this is a thing and that so-called progressives find it acceptable for Bernie to do this.

Moderate or progressive, we are all Democrats. And Hillary beat Bernie in the primary fair and square, and she beat him resoundingly. So when she lost the election, as Democrats we all lost. If Democrats, moderate and progressive, care about the values and goals we claim to, it should be all hands on deck with every resource we have at our disposal. Not hoarding resources over butthurt feelings.

I mean, has anybody stopped to think what "earn it from them" even means?

 

[Ms.Galaxy]

That's literally not how ANY of this works or should work.

Again with the double standard. If Hillary in 2008 had withheld any of her resources from Obama after the primary she would have been flayed alive. It literally disgusts me that this is a thing and that so-called progressives find it acceptable for Bernie to do this.

Moderate or progressive, we are all Democrats. And Hillary beat Bernie in the primary fair and square, and she beat him resoundingly. So when she lost the election, as Democrats we all lost. If Democrats, moderate and progressive, care about the values and goals we claim to, it should be all hands on deck with every resource we have at our disposal. Not hoarding resources over butthurt feelings.

I mean, has anybody stopped to think what "earn it from them" even means?

I imagine they mean they want that party to apply a 50 states progressive strategy, which would kill the Democratic party faster than Trump's approval ratings.

Honestly, I have no idea what they mean by "earn it". Clinton ran a fairly progressive platform and with Bernie they formed the most progressive party platform in history (his words). What more do people want.

 

[Timedog]

Wow.

 

[Guy.brush]

vs

 

[nynt9]

That's literally not how ANY of this works or should work.

Again with the double standard. If Hillary in 2008 had withheld any of her resources from Obama after the primary she would have been flayed alive. It literally disgusts me that this is a thing and that so-called progressives find it acceptable for Bernie to do this.

Moderate or progressive, we are all Democrats. And Hillary beat Bernie in the primary fair and square, and she beat him resoundingly. So when she lost the election, as Democrats we all lost. If Democrats, moderate and progressive, care about the values and goals we claim to, it should be all hands on deck with every resource we have at our disposal. Not hoarding resources over butthurt feelings.

I mean, has anybody stopped to think what "earn it from them" even means?

Do you think the following that Hillary tried to garner in 2008 and the movement Bernie tried to start in 2016 are comparable? To me it makes a lot of sense that people would treat the two differently, because Bernie's platform and following was not the norm for the Democratic Party.

 

[royalan]

Do you think the following that Hillary tried to garner in 2008 and the movement Bernie tried to start in 2016 are comparable? To me it makes a lot of sense that people would treat the two differently, because Bernie's platform and following was not the norm for the Democratic Party.

Does any of that matter compared to what we're up against?

Bernie ran as a Democrat. He used DNC resources to BUILD that following. Unless he thinks his support is enough to win elections (we already learned it's not. Not even close) then he should work with the party he's shamelessly siphoned off of nearly his entire political career.

He doesn't have to, of course. But he deserves no respect for that decision.

 

[tbm24]

Do you think the following that Hillary tried to garner in 2008 and the movement Bernie tried to start in 2016 are comparable? To me it makes a lot of sense that people would treat the two differently, because Bernie's platform and following was not the norm for the Democratic Party.

Both groups fall in the same side is only point that matters here. I don't understand how the Bernie movements #1 priority isn't to get dems in and the GOP out to limit the damage Trump and the GOP have done/will continue to do.

 

[UberTag]

I hope they realize real soon that the list isn't what they should be going after, but rather the projection of the same message Bernie did that energized so many voters.

It's the same message that has legions of people mobilized to protest and demand accountability from Washington on a regular basis. No list of names will allow you to tap into that energy when you're bringing nothing to the table. You need to show up, not be passive, reflect the anger and disenfranchisement of the public, let them know that you are listening and they will come to you.

Anyone that is so desperate for Bernie's names is probably feeling the heat for letting the country down and thinking they can quick fix it by spamming a bunch of people with empty rhetoric that might well turn people OFF to the Democrats and the political process versus getting them engaged. That list of names really ought to go to NEW Democrats, new young voices who are both idealistic and outraged and not beholden to lobbies, corruption or complacency. They'd actually do something worthwhile with it. It really shouldn't wind up in the hands of someone that is reeking of desperation... especially if that same person hasn't marched alongside their constituents in 2017.

 

[jorma]

I don't think any of these lists should be treated as a resource at all. Personally i wouldn't want to sign up for anything at all if i knew it meant i was also signing up for spam from every single motherfucker that comes along and buys my email address.

 

[Number_6]

It's the same message that has legions of people mobilized to protest and demand accountability from Washington on a regular basis. No list of names will allow you to tap into that energy when you're bringing nothing to the table. You need to show up, not be passive, reflect the anger and disenfranchisement of the public, let them know that you are listening and they will come to you.

Anyone that is so desperate for Bernie's names is probably feeling the heat for letting the country down and thinking they can quick fix it by spamming a bunch of people with empty rhetoric that might well turn people OFF to the Democrats and the political process versus getting them engaged. That list of names really ought to go to NEW Democrats, new young voices who are both idealistic and outraged and not beholden to lobbies, corruption or complacency. They'd actually do something worthwhile with it. It really shouldn't wind up in the hands of someone that is reeking of desperation... especially if that same person hasn't marched alongside their constituents in 2017.

This. They don't need Bernie's list--they need a Bernie!

 

[ErasureAcer]

They were screaming about Trump winning and beating Hilary since the primaries.

That's because they looked at the polls that most of PoliGAF dismissed.

Sanders plus 10 vs Trump. Clinton plus 1. Turns out the polls 10 months before the election were right. Focus groups after debates, also right. It's tough for some people to listen though. Much easier to go full Republican and ignore the facts.

 

[Hickbilly Deluxe]

WHY EARN IT

They are the same side for fuck sake. Stop being children and share the goddamn data. Worth noting that Hillary ran on the most progressive platform ever.

Yes, share millions of people's private information for political gain. That's a surefire way to earn some people's trust!

 

[sugarhigh4242]

Democrats: If the rule you followed brought you to this, of what use was the rule?

https://youtu.be/dRQtjVzj1bo#t=01m10s

 

[Seventy70]

Yes, share millions of people's private information for political gain. That's a surefire way to earn some people's trust!

That's exactly the problem. They act as if they are entitled the peoples' support. How exactly do they think Bernie got that email list? Why can't they do the same on their own? It's the same as what I said before: They try way to hard to work around the people rather than with them. It's kind of disgusting to treat this list of peoples' info as some kind of commodity. Those people signed up to be on Bernie's list. That was all. Bernie doesn't own that info because it's not something that is to be owned.

 

[Trokil]

The sad thing is, the Democrats really don't need Sander's list. They need to revamp their fundraising approach wholesale.

The last call I got from them:
"We need your cash to fight against the Koch brothers! Can I count on your $500 today?"
"No."
"Well, we can still use whatever help you can give us. How about $300?"
"No."
"I understands times can be tight. How about $150?"
"No."
"We could really use your help. How about a symbolic donation of $20"
*Hangs up*

$20 was apparently worthless to them. It was considered a symbolic fucking gesture.

Small wonder Sander's small donors seemed more energetic.

So ungrateful. At least they talked to you again. And after having let down the queen and them by not unconditionally loving her, this is not something you actually have earned you know. Also you are neither a Hollywood star, not a Millionaire or Billionaire and you have no house in Martha's Vineyard, so 500$ should be the least be paid for the privilege that they talk to you again. Not that they actually care, but at least they pretend better this time.

 

[Carpe Libertatem]

That's exactly the problem. They act as if they are entitled the peoples' support. How exactly do they think Bernie got that email list? Why can't they do the same on their own? It's the same as what I said before: They try way to hard to work around the people rather than with them. It's kind of disgusting to treat this list of peoples' info as some kind of commodity. Those people signed up to be on Bernie's list. That was all. Bernie doesn't own that info because it's not something that is to be owned.

This is a flawed idea about how information works in the 21st century. This email list is absolutely a commodity and Bernie does own it. And it is in his best interest to share it with the DNC.

The vast majority of his list is probably identical to what the DNC already has, but he very likely has a small but notable amount of people on his list that aren't on the DNC list. Providing the DNC with his list can help them figure out why this is the case, what type of voters those people are, and how they can reach them in future elections. It's especially important if this email list comes with data about where people live in regards to Congressional districts.

 

[Seventy70]

This is a flawed idea about how information works in the 21st century. This email list is absolutely a commodity and Bernie does own it. And it is in his best interest to share it with the DNC.

The vast majority of his list is probably identical to what the DNC already has, but he very likely has a small but notable amount of people on his list that aren't on the DNC list. Providing the DNC with his list can help them figure out why this is the case, what type of voters those people are, and how they can reach them in future elections. It's especially important if this email list comes with data about where people live in regards to Congressional districts.

I'm not talking about legally owning, I'm talking about ethically. If people want to give their info to the DNC, they'll do it on their own. Also, I'm aware that Bernie could give it if he wanted, but I'm glad he isn't. Info shouldn't be shared like that without the approval of the people that are on it. That's what I mean when I say that it's not something that is to be owned, traded, or shared. It would be disrespectful to the people on it.

 

[KarneeKarnay]

If he had any reason to hold onto that list I would say it leverage. People aren't going to forget the turn out he received and the DNC need that support. Bernie won't be President, but he has a lot of leverage right now to force the DNC to make changes.

 

[RandomTiger]

WHY EARN IT

They are the same side for fuck sake. Stop being children and share the goddamn data. Worth noting that Hillary ran on the most progressive platform ever.

You are missing the point I think, getting those emails doesn't get you much if the people on the list don't respect / care about the agenda of the receiver, especially if they are going to spam it with donation requests.

You can argue they shouldn't need to earn the list but they sure as hell need to earn their vote or their donations. Might as well start with earning the list imo. You cant use that contact list to force people to like another candidate.

 

[Carpe Libertatem]

I'm not talking about legally owning, I'm talking about ethically. If people want to give their info to the DNC, they'll do it on their own. Also, I'm aware that Bernie could give it if he wanted, but I'm glad he isn't. Info shouldn't be shared like that without the approval of the people that are on it. That's what I mean when I say that it's not something that is to be owned, traded, or shared. It would be disrespectful to the people on it.

Then Bernie is actively hurting his own goals in the process.

It's telling that no one in this thread who opposes sharing this email list has addressed my point about the DNC using the data in this list to figure out what they need to do to appeal to the small number of people that aren't on their own internal list but are on Bernie's list. I've posted it several times by now, but people keep saying the DNC needs to figure out how Bernie appealed to these people (while depriving them of the best insight into just how to appeal to those people).

 

[water_wendi]

After sleeping on it this list thing seems like a smoke screen. Its going to be used to blame Sanders and the "Berniebros" for when the DNC fails regardless of whether the list is given over or not.

If the list isnt given: We lost because we didnt get the list!
If the list is given: It wasnt given soon enough/Berniebros didnt turn out after being called!

 

[Seventy70]

Then Bernie is actively hurting his own goals in the process.

It's telling that no one in this thread who opposes sharing this email list has addressed my point about the DNC using the data in this list to figure out what they need to do to appeal to the small number of people that aren't on their own internal list but are on Bernie's list. I've posted it several times by now, but people keep saying the DNC needs to figure out how Bernie appealed to these people (while depriving them of the best insight into just how to appeal to those people).

It seems that, to Bernie, being ethical comes first an foremost which is something that I respect. Also, this list isn't the end all be all for understanding a section of Bernie supporters. Maybe the solution is much more simpler than that: just look at Bernie's message. They shouldn't need info to understand why he appealed so much to a certain group of people. People don't have the time or patience for political nerdism. Give a simple, genuine message. That's all you need. This just seems like such a small and petty thing to make a big deal about.

 

[nynt9]

Does any of that matter compared to what we're up against?

Bernie ran as a Democrat. He used DNC resources to BUILD that following. Unless he thinks his support is enough to win elections (we already learned it's not. Not even close) then he should work with the party he's shamelessly siphoned off of nearly his entire political career.

He doesn't have to, of course. But he deserves no respect for that decision.

Both groups fall in the same side is only point that matters here. I don't understand how the Bernie movements #1 priority isn't to get dems in and the GOP out to limit the damage Trump and the GOP have done/will continue to do.

Note that I don't disagree with the premise that Bernie should cooperate with the DNC anywhere in my post. I was just pointing out the misconception I perceived in the post.

 

[KingV]

WHY NOT BOTH

The list has important data that can be used to better plan electoral campaigns. It isn't just about soliciting donations. Look at Cambridge Analytica.


It is baffling that Bernie continues to be so intransigent. He is happy to use the Democrats when he wants to run for President. Be a goddamn team player. It is better when Democrats are in power than when they aren't. Work together.

Theoretically, the DNC could write a proposal that gives the accesss to the list for analytics but not to email. Maybe Bernie would be ok with this. We don't really know what they want it for, but the impression from the article is that they want it to shit up people's inboxes with DNC spam. If that's the case, Bernie is right to tell them to pack sand. I have no problem with them having access to aggregated or anonymize data for analytic purposes.

Edit: also worth noting that I deal professionally in marketing to other peoples customer and lead lists, and every organization everywhere is very sensitive about who has access to the list, what variables they provide, and how it can be used. I'm sure the DNC can do some analytics on the list, but it's not going to make or break the party. You can only move the needle so much... and, pretty much any analytics can be done with an anonymized version of the list.

 

[Carpe Libertatem]

It seems that, to Bernie, being ethical comes first an foremost which is something that I respect. Also, this list isn't the end all be all for understanding a section of Bernie supporters. Maybe the solution is much more simpler than that: just look at Bernie's message. They shouldn't need info to understand why he appealed so much to a certain group of people. People don't have the time or patience for political nerdism. Give a simple, genuine message. That's all you need. This just seems like such a small and petty thing to make a big deal about.

I guarantee you that Bernie has shared this list or at least parts of it with other candidates and groups, so ethics

Spoiler

in games journalism

has nothing to do with this.

People don't have time for "political nerdism?" This is data and statistics - are you saying that those two things aren't useful? That people just need to be "genuine and simple?"

This list isn't the end all be all, but it is a piece of the puzzle and witholding it from the DNC is actively holding back progressive causes in this country. We should want collaboration between all members of the party. That's the only way we will win.

 

[tbm24]

After sleeping on it this list thing seems like a smoke screen. Its going to be used to blame Sanders and the "Berniebros" for when the DNC fails regardless of whether the list is given over or not.

If the list isnt given: We lost because we didnt get the list!
If the list is given: It wasnt given soon enough/Berniebros didnt turn out after being called!

Despite the way the article in the OP is framed, this email list is just in fact a list. The DNC isn't going to stop moving without it. It's just a net benefit assuming the people on it share similar goals(doesn't have to be every goal). No one is going to use this as any smoke screen for anything. Your concern shouldn't be who's going to play the blame game. The work of the DNC in the coming years are going to be monumental in ensuring more people aren't hurt further by what the GOP and Trump will continue to do. This is not about any particular politician or their supporters. This is a team game right now and each member will not be identical to the others.

 

[TyrantII]

And people laughed at them for it.

It always feels like the people that hate TYT are the people that TYT warn you about - corporate democrats/centrists who put financial gain above everything else.

Libby Massachusetts Dem here, TYT is as trash as Tomi or Coulter is to the right.

They're there to whip up a frenzy and strip fools of their cash, nothing more. Don't be the fool.

Snake.oil.salesmen.

 

[TyrantII]

This is quite possibly the dumbest comic I have ever seen. And you comparing his point of reshaping the party to some sort of crazed revolution is loltastic.

I want the current democratic party to burn to the fucking ground and from it's ashes rise a true candidate I will wholeheartedly support. I'm older so I think that burning something to the fucking ground may take the full 4 or 8 years to get what I want.

Nihilism and true Scott fallacies are no way to build movments.

Y'all need to pick up a fucking book. I realize you are frustrated, scared, ect. But flailing about in anger isn't going to work out well for the left, especially with the right flirting with skull busting facism.

 

[GAF A60-Rim A]

WHY NOT BOTH

The list has important data that can be used to better plan electoral campaigns. It isn't just about soliciting donations. Look at Cambridge Analytica.


It is baffling that Bernie continues to be so intransigent. He is happy to use the Democrats when he wants to run for President. Be a goddamn team player. It is better when Democrats are in power than when they aren't. Work together.

WHY EARN IT

They are the same side for fuck sake. Stop being children and share the goddamn data. Worth noting that Hillary ran on the most progressive platform ever.

That's literally not how ANY of this works or should work.

Again with the double standard. If Hillary in 2008 had withheld any of her resources from Obama after the primary she would have been flayed alive. It literally disgusts me that this is a thing and that so-called progressives find it acceptable for Bernie to do this.

Moderate or progressive, we are all Democrats. And Hillary beat Bernie in the primary fair and square, and she beat him resoundingly. So when she lost the election, as Democrats we all lost. If Democrats, moderate and progressive, care about the values and goals we claim to, it should be all hands on deck with every resource we have at our disposal. Not hoarding resources over butthurt feelings.

I mean, has anybody stopped to think what "earn it from them" even means?

Does any of that matter compared to what we're up against?

Bernie ran as a Democrat. He used DNC resources to BUILD that following. Unless he thinks his support is enough to win elections (we already learned it's not. Not even close) then he should work with the party he's shamelessly siphoned off of nearly his entire political career.

He doesn't have to, of course. But he deserves no respect for that decision.

I think you guys have a very narrow worldview, thinking in terms of "us vs them" and "our team" and "Dem good R evil" etc.

That dichotomous divisiveness is not the game Bernie Sanders plays. He doesn't want to kowtow to the corrupt infrastructure of the artificial concepts of the GOP and The Democrats; he is thoroughly principled and has been for decades, and those principles got him that email list, and he doesn't want unprincipled partisan hacks like the DNC to exploit him.

You could say he "exploited" the Democratic Party by running as a Democrat, I suppose, but Bernie isn't stupid; he knows how to play hardball, he came incredibly close to winning the Presidency (NB: I'm not sure what delegate numbers you're looking at, but he didn't lose overwhelmingly - in fact he probably would have won, had one or two other candidates split Hillary's "conventional" voters (it's almost as if The Democrats including Biden had been instructed to step out of the way to ensure "YASS Queen" Hillary had a clean ordained path to the White House)), and now has earnt incredible leverage that can be used to further his principled policy platform.

You may think it won't work, and that Sanders is somehow going to be solely responsible for further losses in 2018 (hint: further losses are IMHO almost assured if the money-hungry tentacles of the DNC establishment continue to flail its slimy insidious influence), but after Hillary's absolutely incredible failures in 2008 and 2016 (and the failures of Obama to sustain support from 2010-2014), Cambridge Analytica or not, I think Sanders is justified in thinking that status quo political divisions are not going to help, and giving into establishment pressures is not a quid pro quo he gives a shit about for having run as a Democrat.

 

[K' Dash]

I've been following Bernie closely even after the primaries, this guy is just amazing, he's still coming with full force even after his own party fucked him up, I am amazed at oratory skills and the ease to talk and go to the point proposing solutions instead of filling his speeches with "bla".

Bernie deserves better than America.

 

[qcf x2]

I've been following Bernie closely even after the primaries, this guy is just amazing, he's still coming with full force even after his own party fucked him up, I am amazed at oratory skills and the ease to talk and go to the point proposing solutions instead of filling his speeches with "bla".

Bernie deserves better than America.

He was who the people wanted, Trump was who the people deserved. It will never fail to be stupefying that the party that eventually gave in to their base wanting someone against the grain and (at least outwardly) anti establishment was the GOP. There were two movements in the entire election cycle, one was stamped/bullied out by the party, the other is now running the country. That is the lesson to be learned, not how do we get access to more peoples email addresses, who do we beg for money, who else can we blame so we don't have to learn and grow from inconvenient truths.

 

[Axiology]

They stomped out Bernie in a million ways during the primary (and after, looking at the Ellison campaign) and yet people are still dragging Sanders for not being a "team player."

Hello? The Democratic establishment and Bernie are barely consolidated on anything. The reason why the primaries are still coming up so often is because of this. There was a momentary truce, but ultimately Bernie's goal is to fundamentally transform the party and the DNC's is to keep it as much the same as possible. Until there's some movement on the issue I don't see why anyone would see it as a given that he hands it over. You'd have to be blind to not see why that would be a horrible idea.

And more to the point, those staffers are entirely right. His e-mail list isn't magic. If the Democrats want to see the same kind of enthusiasm he garnered in his campaign all they have to do is adopt more of his political positions and make enough changes to convince people that they think it's important to reform the party. Until then it ain't gonna happen for them.

It's not rocket science.

 

[The Adder]

Who is to say he didn't? Maybe they want to khthxbye Bernie and he wanted more input.

For all the talk of two way streets it seems like Bernie always has to be the one to bow down.

Dude has made his entire life career by not shutting up.

People who don't know WTF they're talking about should probably not behave as if they do.

He basically got the Democratic party platform to bend to every whim he had. No one, literally no one, who has lost a primary has ever had that much input before. And he lost by A LOT. You people wouldn't be satisfied with anything short of ignoring the vote and giving him the nomination.

Case in point? The above nonsense.

 

[Seventy70]

I guarantee you that Bernie has shared this list or at least parts of it with other candidates and groups, so ethics

Spoiler

in games journalism

has nothing to do with this.

People don't have time for "political nerdism?" This is data and statistics - are you saying that those two things aren't useful? That people just need to be "genuine and simple?"

This list isn't the end all be all, but it is a piece of the puzzle and witholding it from the DNC is actively holding back progressive causes in this country. We should want collaboration between all members of the party. That's the only way we will win.

I'm saying that this doesn't need to be a big deal. I'm not doubting that this would be of some use, but there has to be a line somewhere. Perhaps Bernie feels that handing this list over to something he doesn't 100% have confidence in its current form isn't right. If Bernie feels that the people on the list don't want their info to go to the DNC, then there's nothing wrong with that.

Then again, I can't be completely sure of his reasoning. Though, listening to him speak and watching his actions, I don't have a doubt that he's doing what he thinks is ultimately best.

 

[Dude Abides]

Of course Bernie won't give up the list. Trump winning was the best thing to ever happen to him. He wants four more years.

 

[Bonen no Max'd]

Again, I'm not saying it's the right call but not immediately handing over the email list is probably so he has some leverage to get the party to make institutional changes and reforms. When Palmieri is out saying that "we shouldn't take protests as a sign to move left and people generally don't want $15 minimum wage" it's another sign that they Don't Get It. With Perez looking mighty close to becoming DNC chair Bernie can try to keep his list as motivation for them to clean house. I don't know if that's the right call or not.

Of course Bernie won't give up the list. Trump winning was the best thing to ever happen to him. He wants four more years.

Yeah! It's why he campaigned for Hillary after the primary was over, because he wanted Trump to win so bad!

 

[royalan]

I think you guys have a very narrow worldview, thinking in terms of "us vs them" and "our team" and "Dem good R evil" etc.

That dichotomous divisiveness is not the game Bernie Sanders plays. He doesn't want to kowtow to the corrupt infrastructure of the artificial concepts of the GOP and The Democrats; he is thoroughly principled and has been for decades, and those principles got him that email list, and he doesn't want unprincipled partisan hacks like the DNC to exploit him.

You could say he "exploited" the Democratic Party by running as a Democrat, I suppose, but Bernie isn't stupid; he knows how to play hardball, he came incredibly close to winning the Presidency (NB: I'm not sure what delegate numbers you're looking at, but he didn't lose overwhelmingly - in fact he probably would have won, had one or two other candidates split Hillary's "conventional" voters (it's almost as if The Democrats including Biden had been instructed to step out of the way to ensure "YASS Queen" Hillary had a clean ordained path to the White House)), and now has earnt incredible leverage that can be used to further his principled policy platform.

You may think it won't work, and that Sanders is somehow going to be solely responsible for further losses in 2018 (hint: further losses are IMHO almost assured if the money-hungry tentacles of the DNC establishment continue to flail its slimy insidious influence), but after Hillary's absolutely incredible failures in 2008 and 2016 (and the failures of Obama to sustain support from 2010-2014), Cambridge Analytica or not, I think Sanders is justified in thinking that status quo political divisions are not going to help, and giving into establishment pressures is not a quid pro quo he gives a shit about for having run as a Democrat.

This post is void of facts.

Nobody "made way" for Hillary. She won. Cite evidence to support your point.

The Dems will find a way forward whether Bernie plays along or not. My point is that in a years time when you're wondering why Dems aren't scrambling to support Bernie, shit like this will be the reason why.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

Again, I'm not saying it's the right call but not immediately handing over the email list is probably so he has some leverage to get the party to make institutional changes and reforms. When Palmieri is out saying that "we shouldn't take protests as a sign to move left and people generally don't want $15 minimum wage" it's another sign that they Don't Get It.

Who is they? The one person saying this?

I think you guys have a very narrow worldview, thinking in terms of "us vs them" and "our team" and "Dem good R evil" etc.

That dichotomous divisiveness is not the game Bernie Sanders plays. He doesn't want to kowtow to the corrupt infrastructure of the artificial concepts of the GOP and The Democrats; he is thoroughly principled and has been for decades, and those principles got him that email list, and he doesn't want unprincipled partisan hacks like the DNC to exploit him.

You could say he "exploited" the Democratic Party by running as a Democrat, I suppose, but Bernie isn't stupid; he knows how to play hardball, he came incredibly close to winning the Presidency (NB: I'm not sure what delegate numbers you're looking at, but he didn't lose overwhelmingly - in fact he probably would have won, had one or two other candidates split Hillary's "conventional" voters (it's almost as if The Democrats including Biden had been instructed to step out of the way to ensure "YASS Queen" Hillary had a clean ordained path to the White House)), and now has earnt incredible leverage that can be used to further his principled policy platform.

You may think it won't work, and that Sanders is somehow going to be solely responsible for further losses in 2018 (hint: further losses are IMHO almost assured if the money-hungry tentacles of the DNC establishment continue to flail its slimy insidious influence), but after Hillary's absolutely incredible failures in 2008 and 2016 (and the failures of Obama to sustain support from 2010-2014), Cambridge Analytica or not, I think Sanders is justified in thinking that status quo political divisions are not going to help, and giving into establishment pressures is not a quid pro quo he gives a shit about for having run as a Democrat.

This is some real cult of Sanders nonsense. You sound salty and at this point it's really sad you can't get over Bernie losing the primaries. I can only hope, and imagine, Bernie isn't as petty and immature as some of his overzealous supporters and actually cares about making a difference not...whatever the fuck you guys are advocating