Did it ship? because thats the most ridiculous delivery time ever.
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Demon Gaze |OT| Even heroes have to pay rent
- Thread starter ZeroAKA
- Start date
Did it ship? because thats the most ridiculous delivery time ever.
Parakeetman
No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
Wonder if its due to some sort of order backlog?
You and me both. My exact sentiments. From needs to chill with Souls after Dark Souls II. I'm going to be so disappointed if their first "next gen" dark RPG project is simply Dark Souls III or "Demon's Souls II". Ugh.
On topic, my LE apparently has/will ship from NISA soon (along with my delayed Witch and the Hundred Knight LE), so I'll have this game shortly. Too bad I'll probably check it out/play it in a million years/some other lifetime since my backlog/collection is completely out of control. Oh well, still dig supporting niche dungeon crawlers. Maybe, just maybe, one day it'll send a message to From/someone else to localize King's Field Additional...
Parakeetman
No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
Truthfully I think if they localized Soul Tower Abyss folks would flip out over it. Since its an interesting combination of the old with new. In terms of the "dungeon" in the games setting has been around for a long time with all sorts of weapons laying around from the various folks who have tried to conquer it. Which is the reason behind swords & guns basically. But its some insane stuff and harder than kings field personally.
I really need to open up my collection box one day and go through the games for old times sake.
Do think that its not From's strong point to be rushed by hype and release something with pressure from a publisher. Which am pretty sure what happened with DSII. Its why From usually just does whatever they want with their own self published titles here in Japan and why even if design mechanics feel changed, that the game at least doesnt feel like shit was pushed out the door just because someone wanted returns on their investment. Its why they need to step away from the series before it gets driven into the ground.
Yeah, it's what I'm sorta fearing for From at this point with their Souls games. The fact that From's games have made their way onto publications like Spike TV blows my mind still. I mean, ain't no one was talking about From back in the day, hah! My brother and I were rocking their games in grammar/grade school for Christ's sake! We brought King's Field II (III in JP) on vacation once to the beach because were such dorks. I NEVER would have imagined the fame/popularity they have garnered over the years back during their PSone/early PS2 days. Shit's nuts.
I still think Shadow Tower Abyss had the most interesting monster design/creativity. The fact that you could, as you mentioned, snipe a harpy's wings off with a rifle or slash a monster's head/leg off with a sword and watch them limp/crawl across the floor with their missing appendages still impresses me more than anything I've really seen in the Souls games. There's SOOOO much potential in the first person dungeon crawling space that From has crafted/cultivated over the years and a lot of those great ideas are sitting unused, unnoticed, and underutilized in a Japanese-only PS2 game. I DO NOT (but at the same time understand...Souls put them on the map/makes money) know why they haven't returned to their roots and made another King's Field title/first person dungeon crawler. The market is WIDE open for a game like that and their new found following/support would jump all over another dark RPG title that's "from the creator's of Dark Souls". So frustrating.
Parakeetman
No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
Agreed 100%.
I dont mind things getting popular, but the problem with that is publishers see it as a means to milk for everything its got therefore overhyping / rushing. And with how they knew the West is more obsessed with graphics also brought us to the whole fiasco with the graphical "downgrade" with the final vs the preview stuff. And they should have known better not to mess with that as bullshit radar detection and how fast fires spread would have caught them red handed in no time which did also occur. Basically lack of responsibility is the short of it.
Yep basically what you said. I wonder if its even possible for negotiations to take place to get a digital version released to the West. If the game would actually run correctly / team exists and rights management etc. Since depending on the budget and how much projected time it would take Im curious if the niche community, even the new one made from the Souls series would be interested in such a title from the PS2 era.
outlawauron
Member
I've heard great things about this from friends who have imported. My copy shipped from NISA yesterday!
Parakeetman
No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
Sorry for the late reply, yep no problem. Its a fairly complete package when it comes to dungeon design with what one could expect with a wizardry based design. As do know other games have left them out because folks find it frustrating or slows down gameplay.
Btw if you want something really special and still own a PS2 look for
Wizardry: Tale of the Forsaken Land
As that is one of the few games in the series that actually deals with real elevation when it comes to the map design. Granted the dungeons are not as huge and complex, the whole fact that the maps are beyond flat 2d made it quite the enjoyable experience to explore.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1n5kkv8NLjM&list=PL78913DDF3CB67A7D
Guy's character dies the very first fight, and comments "worst game I've ever played". Welcome to the world of dungeon crawlers.
Parakeetman
No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
Best thing about games designed around the old school series was the fear of "insta death" from enemies like the samurai / ninjas. fucking 即死 everywhere. Worst part about the ninjas is those assholes usually hid in the rear rows where only ranged / casters can usually hit them.
was laughing too hard at that scene though that you are talking about in the vid. "and i died already" lol
That's why the games are fun! I hope we get the next Experience game The Stranger of The Village of the Sword. Looks exceptional.
Parakeetman
No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
Do fully agree there, which is why am hoping Demon Gaze does well cementing a positive relationship with NISA to bring out their other titles of the genre.
Once I get the SAO: Hollow Fragment OT out of the way, I might consider doing a thread on their other games and record some footage. Since from last I remember Meikyu Cross Blood Infinity now works with the PSV TV. I can also record the PSP Entaku no Seito:Students of Round footage.
First two hours of a Dungeon Crawler are the hardest. Getting through it though is rewarding, and then horrible again when you get smashed by a new array of enemies. Love them.
On another note, my LE shipped. So excited.
Parakeetman
No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
Its the best isnt it? Esp no matter how badass of a party you might have in the games that have enemies who can switch the rows from back to front oh man talk about panic when that happens hahaha. Enemies do have that ability in demon gaze also so hope folks get ready for some fun lol. Thankfully there is a skill the main character gets which fixes it.
Whats great about this title too is the "Artifact" system which allows for you to equip other skills / abilities onto your characters helping augment weak points. While it may seem a bit "OP" and whatnot to some, its still a nice system that helps new players to the game and also allows for you to have a more customized party to your liking vs having to have this and that in the party as everyone has an exact set role 100% no veering out of that. For example traditional wizardry you generally needed a healer / caster due to things like undead / spirits / physical resist type of enemies. Taking up valuable party space.
If you really want to get anal with the artifact system and what you get when you use the gems in the circles, you can save before hand then constantly try and reset till you get the artifact which contains the skill you want. Since these are limited on the first play through its kinda suggested that you do this. Unless you want to go balls out and just roll with what you get. My first original game save was like that before the "great crash"... D: Did I get stuck with some useless shit. Also if you do that save / reset route you will need to know what dungeons have what skills attached to them. Its the same with the types of items which can be obtained as rewards from the circles.
http://www.nisamerica.com/games/demongaze/system/jingi.html
While not exact the last EO game that came out had something similar with the game system. Forgot what it was called though. The previous one like 3 for example was more sub class based so a little different.
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Im curious what types of parties is everyone going to run / themed.
Mine are generally built around speed & defensive ability.
(stats go from priority left to right)
FRONT ROW
Demon Gazer - AGI - STR - VIT
Paladin - HUM - VIT - STR - AGI
Samurai - NEY - STR - AGI
REAR ROW
Healer - MIG - MYS - AGI
Assassin - NEY - AGI - LUC - STR
If possible the Paladin would absorb most of the damage, second for that would be the Demon Gazer. Samurai if it got hit would shatter like the glass cannon it was lol. Assassin was mainly harassment and clearing out weaker enemies and Healer did healy things. Both the Samurai and Demon Gazer would spam the hell out of the all first row attack skill. Great for grinding for exp, money and items.
Very cool, thanks for that and will look through it more in depth when time permits.
While I might be wrong as this was a long ass time ago I could have sworn that the folks behind Kings Field were talking about how PC titles like the original Elder Scrolls games (not MORROWIND / OBLIVION / SKYRIM) is what had help influence them with their titles. Also things like the D&D Forgotten Realms stuff like Menzoberranzan. Maybe this was from my friend japanese guy whos a hardcore old school PC and Wizardry guy thats also familiar with From Software.
ElectricThunder
Member
I can easily believe that, as elder D&D helped shape Japan enormously along these lines beyond Record of Lodoss War and the original Final Fantasy.
Also relevant to this as it is literally all that is left: Shadow Tower Abyss fan translation
http://www.romhacking.net/translations/2042/
Beyond that, there's a topic on here for the far more recently fan translated Code Hazard Xth, though I think somebody else already brought that up in the mass of lists alongside the wonderfully melodic Dark Spire for the DS.
tiny raptor
Member
It's a lighthearted scene.
Green Wiggly
Member
lol no worries. I'm on sporadically anyway, so looking for replies can take a while.
That Wizardry game looks awesome. I wish we could get something like that on Vita. I was really disappointed that the King's Field PSP games were never localized.
As far as Demon Gaze goes, how prevalent would you say the fan service is? I'm not really into it.
vagabondarts
Member
From what I understand it's only a couple of scenes.
I can ignore a couple of scenes and still enjoy a game.
Conception II as a counterpoint is like "fanservice:the game".
It's not the main focus that's for sure. If it was, I don't think you would see much praise from anyone.
SlasherJPC
Banned
Yeah Conception is FULL of it. Demon Gaze has just a few moments here and there but is def more grounded in just being a great FP dungeon crawler.
cj_iwakura
Member
Tale of the Forsaken Land is probably my favorite FPDC ever. The story and atmosphere are phenomenal, as is the soundtrack.
Virtue of Modesty
vagabondarts
Member
I loved and hated the Dark Spire.
Avoided Elminage Original for the longest time because I feared it would be as difficult based on reviews saying it should be played only by the most niche of dungeon crawler fans.
While I'm sure it gets more intense down the road, at least Elminage Original doesn't utterly destroy you for hours before letting you map the first floor.
I'm hoping Demon Gaze is more like E:O and less like TDS in that regard.
Oh and I never finished TDS. It beat me.
Avoided Elminage Original for the longest time because I feared it would be as difficult based on reviews saying it should be played only by the most niche of dungeon crawler fans.
While I'm sure it gets more intense down the road, at least Elminage Original doesn't utterly destroy you for hours before letting you map the first floor.
I'm hoping Demon Gaze is more like E:O and less like TDS in that regard.
Oh and I never finished TDS. It beat me.
cj_iwakura
Member
Well, Elminage got like... two reviews? It's not that rough at all, but it does get tougher later. Heck, even Dark Spire gets easy to break in late game. The early game is NASTY though.
vagabondarts
Member
I'll never find out on TDS.
Elminage is really great so far. Very well balanced.
That's got to be really hard to do, from a programming side. Also many RPGs suffer from wild difficulty spikes and dips so you know it must be challenging to get right.
cj_iwakura
Member
Elminage made it to four games strong. A wonder Starfish aren't more recognized.
Also, Elminage and TDS have a nice commonality: dungeon BGM. Does DG have that?
Yup, they did. Elminage: Original is really good, it's too bad it was released in such a sorry state that it got so ignored.
cj_iwakura
Member
To be fair, even if it had been in perfect state, it would have been anyway. Growlanser IV and Persona 2 were, too.
Green Wiggly
Member
Thanks guys. Looks like I'll be keeping my preorder.
Parakeetman
No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
Alright am back home again. I dont have my login info on my mobile, but saw your post.
Basically everyone seems to have answered the question, but while yes there is fan service stuff the majority of the game is spent in the dungeons doing the usual wizardry type of things. Its more the still bits that show up in story events. So dont think you will have to worry too much.
The Kings Field PSP game was pretty hard core. Even though it didnt get too many favorable reviews and folks are very mixed on it, I do enjoy them quite a bit. But its a challenge and the general way it plays is totally different from the usual kings field. Its a combination of Wizardry (though you just have a single character) with how its grid based and battles, though battle commands are stamina based and are performed in real time such as blocking and attacking. I do believe that they are on the JPSN if one ever has the want to import them and works fine on the Vita.
Actually its 5 titles. Even more if you consider all the versions across the platforms. They are not more recognized due to them being a niche company even within Japan. But they are well known among the wizardry game genre fans, as they did a lot during their career over various platforms.
The thing about Elminage its not really that hard for them to balance as its the most pure Wizardry type of title and goes off all of the basic rules of the series. Therefore its more just updating graphics, dungeon designs and other whatnots while keeping the general core principals about the game the same. Its actually harder to try and create something totally new, which usually leads to the balancing issues, similar to what I spoke of with EO3 and having the sub job system break the game with certain combinations that you could do. Star Fish just happens to be one of the companies that has done main line Wizardry titles in the past so they are very familiar with the formula for the game and just keep with that basically without veering off too much. That and its basically what the fans expect for the most part. I remember how crazy people went over the DS version of the first game when the first print came out. Shit was missing from the shelves for quite some time. They finally restocked it later but took quite a long period of time.
I thought you played Demon Gaze? But yes it does have dungeon BGM. Most games these days do.
Black Door
Banned
I remember playing that game, and after the first couple of automatic tutorial missions, you are told about "rushes" of enemies where the mobs randomly take their turn all at once and zerg you.
First random encounter that happened after that is that I get "rushed" by a group of goblins or something that my party should normally steamroll in a couple of turns. Everyone drops like flies. Dropped the game after that.
I should pick it back up though, since it had some nice character art, and I'm way more tolerant of difficulty in games now
Parakeetman
No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
Its seriously one of the better Wizardry spinoff titles. The design and how the battles are with the mechanics used are just fantastic. Yeah the game too I do believe has formation attacks also which is what it uses. Am pretty sure its that title. There was another released in Japan that never made it to the US that was done in the same manner. But I preferred the first more.
Over here it was called Busin Wizardry Alternative and Busin 0 Wizardry Alternative Neo. Id throw up footage, but personally I hate vids with someone yammering over them. If only voice tracks was a separate option you could turn off on YT. I cant remember if its the first or second title, but running the shop with the Orc and little girl? I think was hilarious. Bringing back weapons for them to sell and fulfilling orders and whatnots. Really was a fucking fantastic game. The art was awesome too as you mentioned.
I need to dig mine out. No idea where they are currently. Might be packed up in a box since didnt see it in the closet.
cj_iwakura
Member
Wasn't counting the fifth, for what I think are obvious reasons.
Not yet.
Here's some TotFL art:
Parakeetman
No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
Wasn't counting the fifth, for what I think are obvious reasons.
Not yet.
Here's some TotFL art:
BUT IT WAS SO AWESOME. Yes basically over here too everyone likes to pretend it never came out. Dear god that game fucking sucked. No idea what they were thinking.
The interesting thing about the game Wizardry: TotFL is if you actually took the NPCs with you and such it make it have some sort of a story that was attached to said character which I thought was cool. Or you could just ignore it and have your own party. Thought that was interesting regardless as it gave the world a bit more life so to speak.
PepsimanVsJoe
Member
Yeah there was an allied action you're supposed to use that protects against that. The three frontline warriors put forth a stout defense, making them immune to rush damage. Then the mages in the back can pick apart the enemy with spells/ranged weapons.
Wizardry: Tale of the Forsaken Land is a fantastic game, but it's very different compared to other gridders because of the AA system. It gives players techniques for dealing with powerful foes like ninjas, samurai, and spell-casters. At the same time however these enemies are teamed up with other dangers. Making the right call is more important than any weapon.
Also unlike most gridders, TOFL features fully-animated battles. It's definitely a visual treat, but some fans prefer stills since it makes battles go by much more quickly.
IMO it's definitely worth looking into, there's nothing else like it.
Parakeetman
No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
One thing for sure is the atmosphere it gives was fucking fantastic. There really has not been a title that has topped it yet personally. Was it the first game that had that insane minigame thing where you had to keep pressing button combinations and could keep continuing and such. Forgot what it was exactly but I remember some of the gear / weapons from the minigame were seriously necessary to dish out damage. Like the one particular sword. I played that idiotic minigame literally for hours on end non stop to amass whatever I needed to earn the sword. Though since its been so long dont remember which game it was in.
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Massive image warning, one other FANTASTIC game that was never brought out to the west, let alone got a remade / rereleased game on the PSP or PSV was this 九龍妖魔學園紀 再装填(re：charge) Kowloon Yōma Gakuen Ki (re: charge) (Chronicles of Kowloon Demon School (re: charge)) This game was another one of my favorite titles back in the days. I still have it somewhere too. Problem with the game was for importers you really had to be able to read with how it played as part ADV game. Also since there really isnt voice in it too made it even more so important to be literate. The characters and setting were fantastic though also the overall gameplay elements. I really think if the US had ever seen the title it would have had its own cult following. Damned shame it never did.
Its a pretty well known game in Japan and highly praised. Its a combination of various genres, but the whole dungeon crawling bits and fulfilling requests from the bbs and such makes it quite the addictive title. The story was interesting too. There was another spinoff title that was released on the PSP of the same series, but it was not as well received. The setting was different too.
Heres some JP gameplay footage w/ JP commentary. Am too lazy to dig deeper to find no commentary footage. But wanted to show what the dungeon crawling bits looked like. With how the combat system works you can target different parts on the monsters which have weak points to deal more damage and such. Really was interesting. This game kept me amused for hours on end non stop. I really want to dig it out again now or just order another copy of the best collection. The original nets around 100+ for it. Might even be more now due to collectors.
If the play time is all screwed up just move the slider back to start. No idea why its doing that with the links for me currently...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eh5C7mZywlw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDE0jU-OsJw
Truthfully though to be blunt, its a business not a mod making free project, therefore they should be releasing a finished product for those who are purchasing a title with that type of expectations. Thank god that they people behind the localized release at UFO had enough sense to actually put out a patch that fixed various issues.
Velcro Fly
Member
Game and genre both intrigue me but I'm admittedly terrible at dungeon crawlers. I beat Soul Hackers and it was fun. I enjoyed the story and the SMT aspects. I played EO4 and got probably halfway into it and stopped playing. It was fun but I had that constant feeling of dread and it made me really anxious playing. I get frustrated easily but it was otherwise a lot of fun playing. My favorite part of the game was looking at skill trees and finding builds that would work together for a whole party. I love stuff like that. I think my main problem with EO4 was that I got super impatient and just stopped playing and then got started playing other games and never came back to it.
Thinking this one may be in my come back to it later pile since my Vita backlog is already ridiculous. I do love handheld RPGs and this seems like more my speed compared to Conception which didn't wow me when I played the demo.
Just wondering how the difficulty is compared to stuff like EO4 and if there is any skill tree types of things when you level up.
Thinking this one may be in my come back to it later pile since my Vita backlog is already ridiculous. I do love handheld RPGs and this seems like more my speed compared to Conception which didn't wow me when I played the demo.
Just wondering how the difficulty is compared to stuff like EO4 and if there is any skill tree types of things when you level up.
Parakeetman
No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
If you beat soul hackers then this shouldnt be as bad.
There are no real skill trees and skills are unlocked by level reqs. When you level up you do put in a point to one of your stats attributes. The "customization" comes from artifacts which you will find / get at random from circles if you use the artifact gem.
http://www.nisamerica.com/games/demongaze/system/jingi.html
This game still has the same general idea of building a good party to meet your needs. If anything it makes it a bit easier considering you dont need to worry about a skill tree / gimping your character by putting in the skills wrong. Though you can mess up your character if you distribute the attribute points wrong. But that should be pretty easy to understand which class should have what attributes raised.
This game as you might have seen, you can go through the battles quickly for ones which you are sure to win as it has a rapid advance button you can pretty much hold down. But there will be some tense battles against bosses and what nots, but generally the game isnt like super difficult. And you dont have to worry about things like FOEs which are a staple of the EO series.
Ah yes I forgot to mention the most important thing which might drive some nuts initially which sets this apart from EO. You will not have a full party at the start of the game. There will be you and 1 other character that you can choose to take (female paladin by default) or make your own. From there you will need to earn money to rent new rooms which = a new party member. Each time you rent a room the next one goes up in price. So for a while you will have to decide if you want to grind out money to get a full party or try to press on with a smaller party and earn money for it along the way. It all depends on how fast you are at making money. I forgot what the increments are will look it up and post it here.
Another thing is every time you return to the inn you will be required to pay a your "rent". The price paid out is determined by the level of your characters. So higher the level everyone is the more $$$ is collected for the rent. Its part of the story. Its not too bad if you generally dont keep going back and forth from the dungeon. So its always the best to try to stock up to max on items before heading back to make the most possible profit from selling all the things you dont need for $$$. That and all the money earned from battle in general.
Ok heres the room cost breakdown. When you purchase a new room for rent it comes with a character too which can be taken as is or edited to your liking.
1st Room = Free from game event
2nd Room = 1000G
3rd Room = 5000 G
4th Room = 10,000 G
Making additional characters = 500G. Limit though is 3 and these will be on standby until you swap them with one of your other characters who are currently allocated to a room. Basically breakdown is 4 in rooms, 3 on standby.
Resurrecting characters = Lv x 10G
The rent is calculated the following
All characters combined Lv x ( <character Lv ÷ Difficulty Rating> +5 )
Easy - 5 / Normal - 4 / Hard - 3 / Maniac - 2
(no idea what the US translations for the difficulty ratings are but heres the numerical breakdown for the formula above)
Anyways am not exactly sure if this formula works or not but its whats written on the JP wiki. The easier way to think of it is the rent costs more the higher your level / games difficulty is.
That looks so good - would love that on Vita (or even PS4)
flatearthpandas
Member
Thanks for the impressions. Some people will always be touchy about these things. For me, the value in these games comes from the amount of content and the challenging dungeon design, which generally doesn't show it's face in the first hour. Though it is pretty typical in the dungeon crawlers I've played for early enemies to pack your shit in, rather than be fast forwarded through.
Since you're not familiar with dungeon crawls, would be interested to hear your value impression after the game is finished.
What happens if you can't make rent?
SlasherJPC
Banned
Personally I tried to get my full party as fast as possible. I was getting creamed by the first demon, first battle. Then said... wait a minute. I should get another person. Those extra hits help more then you would think. Also thanks for posting about Wizardry on PS2. Ordered a copy. Never got around to playing it and def need to change that.
Always wanted to see a localised version of this, imported it but never got very far with it.
Black Door
Banned
It's always cool to see dungeon crawlers do something different with the setting beyond "a portal to hell has opened in the middle of a dingy medieval town." That's why I got so into the early Persona games (and I'm seriously considering picking up Mind Zero if it's halfway decent)
Parakeetman
No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
Mind Zero is most def not worth picking up. Not at full price anyways.
You are able to pay it next time, but during that period you are unable to rent new rooms or make new characters. Also bonus from the interior items you have in you / party members rooms lose its effect.
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In other related news to the developer Exp Inc. they released a new trailer of the opening for stranger of sword city: white palace. Made another thread for the new trailer at the link below so we dont go driving this one further off the cliff, which is mostly of my doing lol
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=804711