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[FightyF]

So what is the solution? Go and police those German forums, French forums, etc., cause hey maybe they've been saying MUCH WORST stuff than GAF has?

How many of those forums pride themselves in being heavily moderated, and how many are used as sources of news? How many of those forums does Dyack (and other developers such as Jaffe), have accounts on?

There is NO POINT in freaking out over GAF. There is only a handful of people here when you take the whole market in consideration, like a fricking head of a needle in a giant stack of needles.

If he feels GAF is immature he could stop reading the site you know, there's plenty of other forums out there if he really wants feedback, and previewers, etc.

Heh, I don't think you realize the situation at all here.

I visited no Too Human threads, and it worked great for me! Maybe Dyack could do the same!

If you don't understand the situation, then why are you posting here?

For realz? So you're telling me that the animations and collision detection are not legitimate concerns?

When did I ever say that?

 

[Ether_Snake]

I understand the situation:

Steeve Jobs does not freak out because some forum members one some random forum hates on his products.

Bill Gates does not freak out because some forum members one some random forum hates on his products.

Nor does Keanu Reeves about his acting quality.

Nor does Britney Spears about her mug.

Nor does Dick Cheney.

There.

 

[fse]

sometimes this place is like 4chan's /v/ video games board.

 

[FightyF]

I understand the situation:

Steeve Jobs does not freak out because some forum members one some random forum hates on his products.

Bill Gates does not freak out because some forum members one some random forum hates on his products.

Nor does Keanu Reeves about his acting quality.

Nor does Britney Spears about her mug.

Nor does Dick Cheney.

There.

:lol Holy shit.

I understand that you can't read. Go back and read the thread before making yourself look more foolish.

sometimes this place is like 4chan's /v/ video games board.

It could be solved if people understood the topics being discussed.

 

[outunderthestars]

Dear lord, Dennis Dyack comes off sounding like a pseudo-intellectual douchebag in that podcast. Denis, reading a couple of pop-culture psychology books doesn't make you an expert.

Just work on making your fucking game not suck.

Why does Dyack keep saying "Too Human speaks for itself" then runs around throwing little fits about people not liking it every time they see it?

 

[Ether_Snake]

:lol Holy shit.

I understand that you can't read. Go back and read the thread before making yourself look more foolish.



It could be solved if people understood the topics being discussed.

There is nothing complex here: some guy gets pissed off because people trash his game, he goes on a crusade disguised as a reflection on culture and what not.

That's all it is.

 

[Iaido Sword]

All this talk about it in recent days has caused me to watch a number of recent video's and I am just not seeing it. If you would've said it before I would've agreed it looked a little rough but the recent batch of movies it looks fine. You guys are being snobs or I am just turning in my graphics whore card on this.

Go play other games in this genre. This is easily the best looking in the genre.

Get out of here. Really.

Not only did you try to sneak it from being compared to a lot of games, but the genre has great looking games like Titan Quest and Dungeon Siege that I feel look much better than Too Human.

 

[duk]

premise behind the game is grade AAA

execution of that premise appears to be lacking so far

i have hopes for this game though, story is very very cool

 

[Whipped Spartan]

Apparently we are all insane since it sounds like a lot of us sat and stomached that whole thing. It's truly a challenge to finish the podcast.

 

[fallout]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=muQ9PoyYGdk

ha. I'm surprised he didn't bring this up in the podcast. Just saw it.

:lol :lol :lol

YouTube should be shut down. It's unethical for a website to be representing that as Too Human's musical score.

 

[Whipped Spartan]

Get out of here. Really.

Not only did you try to sneak it from being compared to a lot of games, but the genre has great looking games like Titan Quest and Dungeon Siege that I feel look much better than Too Human.

I only play console games. Sorry in my opinion I think it easily bests console hack n slash dungeon crawls this gen.

 

[FightyF]

There is nothing complex here: some guy gets pissed off because people trash his game, he goes on a crusade disguised as a reflection on culture and what not.

That's all it is.

I don't see the appeal in remaining willfully ignorant...

 

[Iaido Sword]

I only play console games. Sorry in my opinion I think it easily bests console hack n slash dungeon crawls this gen.

Hack n slash dungeon crawlers on console this gen...

You really have to get out of there. I don't want to call you ignorant, but if you are going to claim something to be the best looking game for the genre "on the console", you have to know the other games (and not only consider console only).

 

[Socreges]

i never even knew there was a thread! at least, i don't think i did. sounds awfully interesting, though

 

[Whipped Spartan]

Hack n slash dungeon crawlers on console this gen...

You really have to get out of there. I don't want to call you ignorant, but if you are going to claim something to be the best looking game for the genre "on the console", you have to know the other games (and not only consider console only).

I am truly sorry. I am not trying to convince anyone or force my opinion on you I simply said I am lost on the general GAF consensus. I don't play PC games and I think this game looks better than any dungeon crawler this gen I can buy and play. Sorry if this offends you. You probably hated PSO and called it a diablo clone too. Again I may be the wrong person to argue the point if these pc games are so good.

 

[Iaido Sword]

I am truly sorry. I am not trying to convince anyone or force my opinion on you I simply said I am lost on the general GAF consensus. I don't play PC games and I think this game looks better than any dungeon crawler this gen I can buy and play. Sorry if this offends you. You probably hated PSO and called it a diablo clone too. Again I may be the wrong person to argue the point if these pc games are so good.

Phantasy Star Online has GREAT attack animation. It works and fighting is exciting.

Even being a viewer of someone else playing it, it looks exciting. Too Human, like I had said before, a youtube video of Dynasty Warriors 1 is more exciting than Too Human's Dynasty Warriors.

 

[pakkit]

I don't see the appeal in remaining willfully ignorant...

I was confused, then I followed your tag.

 

[Whipped Spartan]

Phantasy Star Online has GREAT attack animation. It works and fighting is exciting.

Even being a viewer of someone else playing it, it looks exciting. Too Human, like I had said before, a youtube video of Dynasty Warriors 1 is more exciting than Too Human's Dynasty Warriors.

We'll have to agree to disagree. Like I said I guess I can no longer pretend to be a graphics snob. I like these type of games on consoles and when I buy it if the animations suck I'll apologize to the gaf. I'll be posting in the official thread of Dyak cries him self to sleep in August. See you there.

 

[Atomspike]

Good job Dyack. all you have achieved by this unnecessary diatribe is stigmatizing yourself and your company with infamy.

 

[Whipped Spartan]

Good job Dyack. all you have achieved by this unnecessary diatribe is stigmatizing yourself and your company with infamy.

I feel like he is a character on South Park. Can somebody make him South Park Canadian?

 

[DoomGyver]

I feel like he is a character on South Park. Can somebody make him South Park Canadian?

At least Cartman would have froze himself until release.

 

[Atomspike]

I feel like he is a character on South Park. Can somebody make him South Park Canadian?

i feel more like he is the Paris hilton / Amy winehouse of the video game industry.

 

[FightyF]

Heh, I just noticed this:

:lol :lol :lol

 

[M3wThr33]

All this talk about it in recent days has caused me to watch a number of recent video's and I am just not seeing it. If you would've said it before I would've agreed it looked a little rough but the recent batch of movies it looks fine. You guys are being snobs or I am just turning in my graphics whore card on this.

Go play other games in this genre. This is easily the best looking in the genre.

Really?

 

[clo1_2000]

So, he's whining about people who whine on the internetz. got it.

 

[Whipped Spartan]

Really?

Go watch the gameplay video's they aren't that bad. But hey if you think they are more power to you I guess I am blind

 

[fse]

Really?

"funny" gifs can make anything look like shit.

 

[Whipped Spartan]

"funny" gifs can make anything look like shit.

I know it's like that cat's ball doesn't even have normal mapping. Come on Dyak!

 

[Whipped Spartan]

At least Cartman would have froze himself until release.

I just want someone on GAF to make a Dyak pic of him as a south park canadian.:lol

 

[Iaido Sword]

"funny" gifs can make anything look like shit.

Oh, you'd say the same thing for the real one.

 

[Momar]

Currently listening to the old EGM Live podcast, and so far, two things:

Dyack is just flat out whining. There's no ifs, ands, or buts about it, he's just whining. I feel like he tries to over-complicate things to blur the gist of what Mark is trying to say, which is, basically, that what they saw at that particular E3 was essentially no good, and that what was shown was ultimately the responsibility of Denis and his team.

Shane is unbelievably annoying. Having become a recent fan of the EGM/1up podcasts over the past 3-4 months, the guy drives me nuts. Is there any reason in particular that he always talks in such a matter-of-fact tone? I'm not sure if that's the way to describe it, but the way he talks is so condescending.


edit: Also, I'm sure the mods are probably keeping an eye on this, but what originally made me want to take Dyack's side was the flurry of personal attacks (i.e. GIFs). The more personal attacks that are made on GAF's side, the more ammo we give Dyack to read Amazon bestsellers and fire back at us.

 

[dammitmattt]

I just got around to listening to 1up Yours and I have no clue what's happened in the previous 41 pages, but here are my quick impressions:

There are so many thoughts running through his head that Denis reminds me of myself after being exposed to many great, new minds during a college philosophy 101 course. He seems easily influenced and his statements are not very well thought out. On top of that, he is being incredibly whiny regarding the criticism of his game.

However, I do agree with him on one thing - the moderation of NeoGAF is at best inconsistent and at worse incredibly hypocritical. Bannings seem to be more based around mood swings than any consistent policies, and many moderators can act as childish as the masses they are supposed to be moderating. This is especially evident in any Dyack thread where some of the moderators swarm to attack Too Human mercilessly. And it all starts at the top. Some might say that it's tough to manage a wildly disparate group of people from around the world so that they execute a consistent policy, but that's what good managers do, and it's obviously something that EviLore is untrained and unprepared to do. And it's no knock against him because in my current position in life (late 20s, senior consultant), I wouldn't be ready to do it either. NeoGAF has exploded in popularity and reach in the last few years and maybe it's just time to bring in somebody who is an expert to manage it all (assuming that there is a budget to hire someone to even do that part-time).

On another note, another great blog post by Shawn Elliott. At least someone at 1up can have an intelligent discussion with Dyack, even if it's after the fact. Garnett at least tried to interject a few times while Shane and Kollar just sat there without challenging a single word. I can understand Kollar's silence because he's still brand new to 1up, but Shane seems to wilt in the presence of any industry talent, which is surprising coming from someone who's typically very opinionated, even on matters in which he is ill-informed.

 

[Iaido Sword]

Currently listening to the old EGM Live podcast, and so far, two things:

Dyack is just flat out whining. There's no ifs, ands, or buts about it, he's just whining. I feel like he tries to over-complicate things to blur the gist of what Mark is trying to say, which is, basically, that what they saw at that particular E3 was essentially no good, and that what was shown was ultimately the responsibility of Denis and his team.

Shane is unbelievably annoying. Having become a recent fan of the EGM/1up podcasts over the past 3-4 months, the guy drives me nuts. Is there any reason in particular that he always talks in such a matter-of-fact tone? I'm not sure if that's the way to describe it, but the way he talks is so condescending.

edit: Also, I'm sure the mods are probably keeping an eye on this, but what originally made me want to take Dyack's side was the flurry of personal attacks (i.e. GIFs). The more personal attacks that are made on GAF's side, the more ammo we give Dyack to read Amazon bestsellers and fire back at us.

Dyack is seriously contending Peter Molyneux for over-hyping. No, he beat him.

Comparing Too Human to Lord of the Rings as an epic trilogy from the beginning, calling it a hundred hour gameplay, just so much stuff.

Peter Molyneux apologized for his hyping. I wonder if Dyack will if Too Human bombs.

 

[Atomspike]

Peter Molyneux apologized for his hyping. I wonder if Dyack will if Too Human bombs.

No way , the guy is a loony , he will blame "the Neogaf" if his game bombs.

 

[Momar]

Dyack is seriously contending Peter Molyneux for over-hyping. No, he beat him.

Comparing Too Human to Lord of the Rings as an epic trilogy from the beginning, calling it a hundred hour gameplay, just so much stuff.

Peter Molyneux apologized for his hyping. I wonder if Dyack will if Too Human bombs.

I have to wonder, for a guy who spouts out about his extensive game industry experience, since when has this kind of behavior prior to a game's release ever been positive?

And also, I'll be completely honest, I have not played a SK game. I hear a lot about Eternal Darkness and the Legacy of Kain series, but were they really so incredible that they warrant Dyack being given the platform that 1up (and to an extent, GAF) has given him?

 

[Zabka]

I just got around to listening to 1up Yours and I have no clue what's happened in the previous 41 pages, but here are my quick impressions:

I figured at least someone had to give Dyack the respect to attempt a response with at least two seconds of thought put into it instead of the shameless bashing that's followed, mostly from people who aren't responding in a way that shows that they are familiar enough with the discussion to comment on it. The Too Human discussion belongs in any number of other threads. This thread should be for discussing the topic brought up in the OP, not how crappy or not Too Human looks. It's yet another example of how the NeoGAF moderators have failed the NeoGAF users.

Eh? Maybe you should rethink this because you're guilty of exactly what Denis whines about. Since forum culture is one of the topics, I think you should google the term "white knighting."

 

[ominae]

There is nothing complex here: some guy gets pissed off because people trash his game, he goes on a crusade disguised as a reflection on culture and what not.

That's all it is.

/agree - i just listened him on 1upYours and it's just one big QQ. Props to Garnett for trying to teach him how the internetz works :/

The fact that he has done so much analysis (of the obvious?) shows that he doubting the success of his game - the "issues" he mentions are only going to be significant if the game sux0rz :/

 

[dammitmattt]

Eh? Maybe you should rethink this because you're guilty of exactly what Denis whines about. Since forum culture is one of the topics, I think you should google the term "white knighting."

"I have no clue" doesn't mean I didn't read it. Also, since I disagree with almost everything Denis said, I'm not sure how your second point applies. I just see the majority of the 42 pages not actually centered around what I just listened to him discuss on the podcast and it annoys me a bit because there are plenty of other avenues here to bash Too Human.

Clarification: There were some good posts early on in this thread when I read through it the first time (props to EviLore espcially for taking A LOT of time to defend, research, and correct many items), but by the time I came back and read the second half, it really had degenerated, hence my post above immediately following reading the last dozen pages or so. Also, I've been re-reading a lot of the Dyack stuff following the mentions on the podcast so all of the threads are running together in my very, very tired brain :/

 

[agrajag]

I understand the situation:

Steeve Jobs does not freak out because some forum members one some random forum hates on his products.

Bill Gates does not freak out because some forum members one some random forum hates on his products.

Nor does Keanu Reeves about his acting quality.

Nor does Britney Spears about her mug.

Nor does Dick Cheney.

There.

WTF, you started off with a decent guy and then your list of examples got gradually more vile. It's like peeling away the layers of Dante's Inferno.

 

[gray_fox224]

Oh Denis...

 

[Shawnwhann]

:lol :lol at the EGM Live Podcast from last year. In just the first five minutes....

"Too Human will define the company."

"I haven't seen a bigger game ever in content."

"Too Human is going to push what people think of videogames."

"I have not seen a bigger game than what we're doing anywhere."

This is gold!

 

[gray_fox224]

"The Neogaf" :lol

 

[Iaido Sword]

:lol :lol at the EGM Live Podcast from last year. In just the first five minutes....

"Too Human will define the company."

"I haven't seen a bigger game ever in content."

"Too Human is going to push what people think of videogames."

"I have not seen a bigger game than what we're doing anywhere."

This is gold!

Need to get to the part where he says calling Too Human terrible will negatively change the game industry. :lol

 

[darkressurection]

:lol :lol at the EGM Live Podcast from last year. In just the first five minutes....

"Too Human will define the company."

"I haven't seen a bigger game ever in content."

"Too Human is going to push what people think of videogames."

"I have not seen a bigger game than what we're doing anywhere."

This is gold!

I like how Dyack tries to invalidate everything Mark says, and how Shane defends Denis.

 

[Goodfortexas]

OK, so we have had 42 pages of disagreement with Dennis.

Yes, it is strange for him to say that GAF hurts society, but I want to hear some legitimate responses to the other concerns that he raises.

For example, his claim that the mods should follow there own rules. I haven't seen any response to this at all. The only few mod posts have been things like...

Bewilderment. Amusement. Pity.

or

haha wow

I think Dyack may have made a legitimate claim here and to me it sounds like nobody wants to own up. Don't you agree that mods should follow the same rules that they enforce?

Secondly, I agree with his plea for us to first play the game before judging it. Our community looks especially childish with posts like...

huh... Dennis, count me in to pick this up for 10 bucks used at Gamestop.

I mean, seriously, is that the kind of reputation we want to have here? I think we should man up to these things and say, "Yeah, okay, it is pretty crappy that this game has been delayed for so long, and has received a lot of negative press, but I am going to wait and see for myself after I actually play the game". Isn't there a certain level of responsibility there in choosing to do that? I think so.

Last, we claim that we don't fall plague to groupthink, yet it seems that many people have made these negative assumptions about the game based on the general vibe of the community. In conclusion, yes, Dyack may be whack, but at the same time I believe he has raised some legitimate things that we should think about.

 

[Grecco]

Did you miss Evilores entire post? Before posting that?

 

[fallout]

Did you miss Evilores entire post? Before posting that?

Misinformation is only a problem if you're "against" Too Human.

 

[Zabka]

"I have no clue" doesn't mean I didn't read it. Also, since I disagree with almost everything Denis said, I'm not sure how your second point applies. I just see the majority of the 42 pages not actually centered around what I just listened to him discuss on the podcast and it annoys me a bit because there are plenty of other avenues here to bash Too Human.

Clarification: There were some good posts early on in this thread when I read through it the first time (props to EviLore espcially for taking A LOT of time to defend, research, and correct many items), but by the time I came back and read the second half, it really had degenerated, hence my post above immediately following reading the last dozen pages or so. Also, I've been re-reading a lot of the Dyack stuff following the mentions on the podcast so all of the threads are running together in my very, very tired brain :/

Ah ok, makes a lot more sense. I dunno. I think ultimately his whining just isn't nearly as interesting as the quality of the game itself. Anyone who think GAF operates as some sort of hivemind where everyone just follows the leader just doesn't get it.

What is so special about Too Human that the game journalism and forum cultures work against it? I can't think of a single thing.

 

[Momar]

Did you miss Evilores entire post? Before posting that?

Actually, can you link that post? I think I missed it (this thread is pretty huge).

 

[border]

Ahhhhhh, the good old EGM Live podcast -- home to many pre-meltdown Dyack delusions and promises.

The most damning quote is of course, "I think that the next time say we show Too Human, you guys should be critical. And I think we need to show something that we can absolutely stand behind.....that's ready to go and you guys can have at it." (97:25) Well, they showed Too Human again this month, and already Dyack is complaining about pre-release criticism from game journalists. The preview build is not a product that they can stand behind, and once again he deflects any criticism by saying that the game must not be spoken of negatively until release day.

And then there's my favorite gem:

"We were one of the first games if not THE first game that was in 3D and did not allow you to you control the camera."

I don't think he's intentionally trying to deceive or claim credit where it isn't due, but it just goes to show you how wrapped up he is in his own little world.

Funny how 18 months ago they had this long discussion about how great the game cameras are going to be, and yet the Too Human camera is among the most common criticisms of the completed preview build.