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Denis Dyack in 1up yours. NeoGAF is "hurting society," justifies having it shut down

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Dave Long said:
Pretty clear to me that Dyack's ultimate goal here is to keep himself and his game in the consciousness of gamers so they'll buy the thing just to find out if he's a goofball or not.

Gamers buy stuff for reasons like this because so many of them have disposable income committed to a game a week regardless of the game's quality. By calling everyone on GAF out, he gets a shot at selling more games and who knows how much his publisher is committing to the marketing? Maybe he needs whatever interest he can get just to make some people pony up their dough?

It's certainly the Derek Smart method of game marketing.

i'm almost inclined to suspect this, if dyack himself didn't seem so hyperwrought and douche-y over the whole shebang. it would at least explain why his handler didn't step in at the ten minute mark and say "oookay, good interview, thanks everyone, buy too human! denis needs to take break!"

at the very least, i expect this explanation to be denis' new self-aggrandizing vector after too human is released and the backlash rumbles on.
 

nib95

Banned
Kittonwy said:
Then he shouldn't show his game until it's ready to be judged, but then we're only one month away from the release date.

It's just a bad way to respond to criticism, the whole "you haven't played the final game" argument is just lame because people don't have to play the final game, because they don't have to buy the final game upon release if they don't feel like it.

Did Naughty Dog resort to that kind of bullshit when people criticized the shooting mechanics after they showed the game at E3 and various events? No, they went and took the criticisms seriously and IMPROVED THEIR GAME, resulting in a polished product and a great game for the PS3, a much improved shooting mechanics that will stay with the game and benefit the series in the long run. Did Insomniac do the whole "for or against" bullshit when the game's visuals got criticized after a few screenshots came out? No, they went and explained that they just implemented the shadowing system and they will continue to work on making the game prettier, if I was a game director (granted I have no interest in being a game director or being in the game industry at the present time), I would be feverishly trying to address any concerns and polish my shit up during this final stretch instead of trying to use 1UP Yours as a vehicle to attack GAF and the people who run GAF.

I don't believe people at GAF are just here to shit on games indiscriminately, I sure don't, we give a shit, we won't be so critical if we don't really care. The problem is Dyack and his team haven't really addressed any of the problems people here have mentioned, like the crappy animations and collision detection, they haven't shown any new levels, they've just been trying to push that loot thing, and to be honest I just don't give a shit about loot because I'm simply not a loot guy, I like action games, I like good combat, I like a bit of puzzles and platforming, I didn't play PSO for the loot either, I played it for the boss fights, I played it for the challenge, I played it for the community.

As usual Kittonwy, on point. Also similar to some of the points I brought up in my previous post.
 

firehawk12

Subete no aware
Althane said:
I'm still wondering how an internet community can hurt society. Outside of the Chans. >_<;;


Well, I think Dyack's extreme example of groupthink causing someone to commit suicide is probably the worst case scenario. It's happened a few times and all it takes is someone starting a Facebook group called "Billy is a FAG" and spreading that around a school.

Ultimately though, I think the overall effect of "bad" Internet behaviour is almost negligible when compared to the number of people who are actually online. I mean, I don't know you, I will probably never meet you in "real life", but I'm not going to treat you like shit because of anonymity. I just have to assume that everyone else will afford me the same courtesy.
 

deadhorse32

Bad Art ™
Previews should be way more critical not the opposite. People want to know if they should be intersted in your game not lied until the game has been released.

And metacritic factor mostly when your game sell like crap. If you have a smash hit sale wise, people will produce your game even if it got crappy reviews.

The point is : make the best game possible and pray it find its public
 

nib95

Banned
Milhouse31 said:
Previews should be way more critical not the opposite. People want to know if they should be intersted in your game not lied until the game has been released.

And metacritic factor mostly when your game sell like crap. If you have a smash hit sale wise, people will produce your game even if it got crappy reviews.

The point is : make the best game possible and pray it find its public

Not just that. Previews give time for a developer to fix any problematic areas or issues with the said game. Reviews do not, since the game is usually complete by that time.

If I was a developer, I'd want more critical previews, that do highlight problem areas, so I could actually go back and fix them, and provide an overall more positive gameplay experience.

It's a shame Dyack doesn't see it like that, and almost wants to censor the traditional preview/impressions article. I appreciate that previews shouldn't be overly damning (should account for the fact that a game is alpha/beta etc) or pass final judgement, but they can to a degree offer constructive criticism.
 
Kittonwy said:
Then he shouldn't show his game until it's ready to be judged, but then we're only one month away from the release date.

It's just a bad way to respond to criticism, the whole "you haven't played the final game" argument is just lame because people don't have to play the final game, because they don't have to buy the final game upon release if they don't feel like it.

Did Naughty Dog resort to that kind of bullshit when people criticized the shooting mechanics after they showed the game at E3 and various events? No, they went and took the criticisms seriously and IMPROVED THEIR GAME, resulting in a polished product and a great game for the PS3, a much improved shooting mechanics that will stay with the game and benefit the series in the long run. Did Insomniac do the whole "for or against" bullshit when the game's visuals got criticized after a few screenshots came out? No, they went and explained that they just implemented the shadowing system and they will continue to work on making the game prettier, if I was a game director (granted I have no interest in being a game director or being in the game industry at the present time), I would be feverishly trying to address any concerns and polish my shit up during this final stretch instead of trying to use 1UP Yours as a vehicle to attack GAF and the people who run GAF.

I don't believe people at GAF are just here to shit on games indiscriminately, I sure don't, we give a shit, we won't be so critical if we don't really care. The problem is Dyack and his team haven't really addressed any of the problems people here have mentioned, like the crappy animations and collision detection, they haven't shown any new levels, they've just been trying to push that loot thing, and to be honest I just don't give a shit about loot because I'm simply not a loot guy, I like action games, I like good combat, I like a bit of puzzles and platforming, I didn't play PSO for the loot either, I played it for the boss fights, I played it for the challenge, I played it for the community.


POST OF THE MOTHERFUCKING WEEK
 

DjangoReinhardt

Thinks he should have been the one to kill Batman's parents.
Kittonwy said:
Then he shouldn't show his game until it's ready to be judged, but then we're only one month away from the release date.

It's just a bad way to respond to criticism, the whole "you haven't played the final game" argument is just lame because people don't have to play the final game, because they don't have to buy the final game upon release if they don't feel like it.

Did Naughty Dog resort to that kind of bullshit when people criticized the shooting mechanics after they showed the game at E3 and various events? No, they went and took the criticisms seriously and IMPROVED THEIR GAME, resulting in a polished product and a great game for the PS3, a much improved shooting mechanics that will stay with the game and benefit the series in the long run. Did Insomniac do the whole "for or against" bullshit when the game's visuals got criticized after a few screenshots came out? No, they went and explained that they just implemented the shadowing system and they will continue to work on making the game prettier, if I was a game director (granted I have no interest in being a game director or being in the game industry at the present time), I would be feverishly trying to address any concerns and polish my shit up during this final stretch instead of trying to use 1UP Yours as a vehicle to attack GAF and the people who run GAF.

I don't believe people at GAF are just here to shit on games indiscriminately, I sure don't, we give a shit, we won't be so critical if we don't really care. The problem is Dyack and his team haven't really addressed any of the problems people here have mentioned, like the crappy animations and collision detection, they haven't shown any new levels, they've just been trying to push that loot thing, and to be honest I just don't give a shit about loot because I'm simply not a loot guy, I like action games, I like good combat, I like a bit of puzzles and platforming, I didn't play PSO for the loot either, I played it for the boss fights, I played it for the challenge, I played it for the community.
Exactly, two of the things Dyack's railing against - opinionated previews, internet anonymity - could've been used to his advantage to make a better game. People without vested financial interest in Too Human or incentive to hold back their opinions gave him plenty of feedback.
 

hauton

Member
Yeah, Kittowny, you pretty much nailed what I was too inarticulate/lazy to say.

I think that a lot of what he's bringing up is true. You only have to look at 2ch or 4chan to see the extremes of internet anonymity. But almost everything he brought up was ultimately irrelevant to his argument.

The entire "scientism" point is thrown out the window when you take into consideration the fact that nobody gave Too Human a Metacritic score based on these "review-previews". In fact, while Dyack uses this term "review-preview" to connote a negative meaning, I think that all previews should be "review-previews" - they should be as critical as possible. Too often you see games get off easy in previews, and then when it comes out, journalists do a 180 and trash the game. Look at Lair - most (myself included) took the game-breaking controls for granted and assumed that they'd be fixed. They weren't and suddenly what was one of the most hyped PS3 exclusives turned into the biggest duds of all time.

A preview should be unflinchingly critical with the assumed caveat that it is only that - a preview. At the end of the day, there is no "score" being given because previews are inherently undefinitive and open to change. Dyack should not be angry over journalists being critical in previews because they're doing their job.

What I do understand and somewhat sympathize with is the mob mentality that occurs. Yeah, he partly brought it on himself, but the sheer amount of vitriol and ridicule the guy has received not only from message boards but the journalism circle and even industry peers is no joking matter. No matter what he did, he doesn't deserve it.
 

zombi

Member
DKehoe said:
Shawns blog was awesome, I really wish he had been sitting in on the interview
Quoted for truf. The faux headiness of the discussion was unbelievable. I honestly wanted someone to ask; what are you saying and how does it pertain to the discussion. Im not saying what he brought to the discussion was confusing (it wasnt).
Just stop babbling.
 

StuBurns

Banned
Kittonwy said:
Then he shouldn't show his game until it's ready to be judged, but then we're only one month away from the release date.

It's just a bad way to respond to criticism, the whole "you haven't played the final game" argument is just lame because people don't have to play the final game, because they don't have to buy the final game upon release if they don't feel like it.

Did Naughty Dog resort to that kind of bullshit when people criticized the shooting mechanics after they showed the game at E3 and various events? No, they went and took the criticisms seriously and IMPROVED THEIR GAME, resulting in a polished product and a great game for the PS3, a much improved shooting mechanics that will stay with the game and benefit the series in the long run. Did Insomniac do the whole "for or against" bullshit when the game's visuals got criticized after a few screenshots came out? No, they went and explained that they just implemented the shadowing system and they will continue to work on making the game prettier, if I was a game director (granted I have no interest in being a game director or being in the game industry at the present time), I would be feverishly trying to address any concerns and polish my shit up during this final stretch instead of trying to use 1UP Yours as a vehicle to attack GAF and the people who run GAF.

I don't believe people at GAF are just here to shit on games indiscriminately, I sure don't, we give a shit, we won't be so critical if we don't really care. The problem is Dyack and his team haven't really addressed any of the problems people here have mentioned, like the crappy animations and collision detection, they haven't shown any new levels, they've just been trying to push that loot thing, and to be honest I just don't give a shit about loot because I'm simply not a loot guy, I like action games, I like good combat, I like a bit of puzzles and platforming, I didn't play PSO for the loot either, I played it for the boss fights, I played it for the challenge, I played it for the community.
It's time for Dyack's title to change, "Owned by Kittonwy".
 
Kittonwy, why must you carry on with the cutesy cat talk and lame indifferent.gifs when you can clearly act like a reasonable person? (Good post, BTW.)
 

fallout

Member
Maybe Dyack's master plan was to bring us all together. I've never agreed with so many people on this forum at one time.

<3

MightyHedgehog said:
Kittonwy, why must you carry on with the cutesy cat talk and lame indifferent.gifs when you can clearly act like a reasonable person? (Good post, BTW.)
I've asked Kittonwy the very same thing. Apparently a single cat pounding away at a keyboard can occasionally come up with some remarkable stuff, but it's kind of rare.
 

Des0lar

will learn eventually
Kittonwy said:
Then he shouldn't show his game until it's ready to be judged, but then we're only one month away from the release date.

It's just a bad way to respond to criticism, the whole "you haven't played the final game" argument is just lame because people don't have to play the final game, because they don't have to buy the final game upon release if they don't feel like it.

Did Naughty Dog resort to that kind of bullshit when people criticized the shooting mechanics after they showed the game at E3 and various events? No, they went and took the criticisms seriously and IMPROVED THEIR GAME, resulting in a polished product and a great game for the PS3, a much improved shooting mechanics that will stay with the game and benefit the series in the long run. Did Insomniac do the whole "for or against" bullshit when the game's visuals got criticized after a few screenshots came out? No, they went and explained that they just implemented the shadowing system and they will continue to work on making the game prettier, if I was a game director (granted I have no interest in being a game director or being in the game industry at the present time), I would be feverishly trying to address any concerns and polish my shit up during this final stretch instead of trying to use 1UP Yours as a vehicle to attack GAF and the people who run GAF.

I don't believe people at GAF are just here to shit on games indiscriminately, I sure don't, we give a shit, we won't be so critical if we don't really care. The problem is Dyack and his team haven't really addressed any of the problems people here have mentioned, like the crappy animations and collision detection, they haven't shown any new levels, they've just been trying to push that loot thing, and to be honest I just don't give a shit about loot because I'm simply not a loot guy, I like action games, I like good combat, I like a bit of puzzles and platforming, I didn't play PSO for the loot either, I played it for the boss fights, I played it for the challenge, I played it for the community.

Post of the thread
 

Quazar

Member
FartOfWar said:
http://www.1up.com/do/blogEntry?bId=8793635&publicUserId=4551247

The Transformative Magic of Too Human's Denis Dyack
Snippet: Dyack's been reading books about technology and the creation of culture. He has attended a business symposium. Now he hopes to forge from the insights of these independent sources a unified theory that will explain everything from Too Human's somewhat negative press to...well, Too Human's somewhat negative press.


Damn, wish you were on the podcast. Would of been so great to hear you mix that shit up on air.
 
In Dyack's world we're allowed to have opinions based off of the previews and videos we've seen and read early on, just so long as they're not negative ones.

I just watched the intro movies on game trailers and most of the Too Human segment on the latest 1up Show and I think all of the skeptics are rightly justified. I think some of the gifs (the kitten playing with yarn and Mystery Science Theater ones) are spot on. I thought the game looked clunky in motion, the cutscenes had horrible animation, pacing and shot selection. This is ten years in the making? This is supposed to be some triple A exclusive? One of THE biggest titles for the latter part of this year? This is why he's attacking the old preview system and enthusiast press after if garnered a result he didn't want? This is why SK is suing Epic? This is why he's attacking a message board community and veiling his dispute in some supposedly grander arguement? Because people think your game looks like shit?

And before anyone leaps to the fore saying I can't qualify if the game is shit or not, you're right, I can't come to any concrete conclusion but I'm not going to spend 60$ to find out if I'm right or wrong. Not on a game I am now (after watching footage and reading previews that are supposed to get me interested in the title) completely uninterested in, not when there's so many other games out there I think look like they're worth my time and money. Release a demo and prove the skeptics wrong, otherwise all we have are the same standard tools we use to try and base purchases off of.
 
Wasn't there more fors than againsts in Dyacks thread? I didnt hear him mentioning how ridiculous it was that people were optimistic about his game without playing it yet. Not to mention all the people saying it was impossible to be for\against something they hadn't played. Fine bit of selective reading there Denis. Experiment failed, I'd say.

Also, I'm sure I've read more posts saying "I don't get the hate for Dyack" than posts which are actual personal attacks on him. People dissing his game is something thats inevitable here. I'm pretty sure every game ever made has been ripped apart by someone on this forum at some point. The more he fights against it the more people will do it.

He made a few good points (albeit ones that were obvious to anyone with a bit of commonsense and really didnt need a goddamned syllabus to make) but I think his rant would have been better saved for after the game (or even the demo) was out and people could judge for themselves if Too Human has been treated unfairly. Take your own advice and let the game speak for itself.

I'd also like to agree about how hypocritical Bettenhausen was in this podcast seeing as he's the king of writing off games he hasn't even played for asinine reasons and taking "something he read on a forum" as fact.
 

Bojanglez

The Amiga Brotherhood
I have finally managed to listen to the podcast. First of all I must congratulate Denis for the great entertainment, rarely have I heard so much passion in a games podcast. I have to say I am a little disappointed in Shane and Garnett for not calling him out on some points, but I also think letting him let loose might have actually help expose him in the best way possible.

One of Denis' main points seemed to boil down to that old phrase that there are "lies, damned lies and statistics", we all know that people can twist numbers and data to give them the results they want to demonstrate, that happened before "The Neogaf" and Metacritic, the fact is, that ultimately good games don't have to worry about the manipulation of these statistics they are, on the whole, viewed as good games. In fact I would tend think that more bad games benefit from the use of Metacritic as a gauge, due to the fact that reviewers might be persuaded to give a positive review (by means of advertising muscle, exclusive access to events or simply having developers on their podcast).

The fact that Dyack is making us have this discussion is ultimately a good thing too, for which he must be commended.

However, for a man that talks a lot about ethical business he should think about his relationship with Microsoft, a company that is known for it's questionable business practices and pursuit of corporate profit (that could apply to any of the 3 bug platform holders), indeed corporations are legally binded to put profitability before 'social respsonsability' (he will be glad to know that I read that in a book), if he really wanted reform in society I would argue that he should highlight these inequities as a matter of priority before he started calling for reform in an Internet forum.
 

The Crimson Kid

what are you waiting for
Kittonwy, nice post. I'm surprised that the animation in Too Human still looks as bad as it did a year ago, despite criticism of it, although that won't stop me from enjoying the gameplay, if it turns out to be good.

Although, after reading a decent chunk of this thread and the other Too Human threads, and seeing how the GAF reaction has affected many of the mainstream previews, I find him to be pretty accurate in his statements. Most of the "against" statements here aren't true, informed criticisms of Dyack, his statements, or his work. They can be made (see kittonwy's post), but most of the "against" seem content just riding along on the waves emanating from the GAF Hivemind, without actually thinking about why they are or explaining their positions on it.

The way I see it, there are two areas where things need to be fixed in the GAF to game journalism site relationship.

On GAF's side, moderators should actually do their job. Enforce the TOS, hold yourselves accountable for your actions, don't intentionally incite negative discussions, and control a discussion if things devolve into uninformed, ad hominem attacks on a game or person. Also, as a moderator, you had to reach certain qualifications to get the job, so a higher standard is expected from you. Don't act like Amirox and troll a game just like some Junior Member fresh from a long history at GameFAQs System Wars would.

On the media's side, it basically boils down to learning how to deliver your own opinions while keeping outside influences away and keeping everything in context. Journalists shouldn't be tearing apart a preview build and criticizing it with the finality you would see a final product review. The Wired and Kotaku pre/reviews were pretty appalling in their readiness to do so. I don't want to have previews be glorified PR pieces, but criticisms of a game in a preview build should have clear clarifications of the state of development of the game nearby. Also, they shouldn't be playing into, or even referencing, the message board hype about any game. It clouds judgment and leads to inaccurate content.
 

WrikaWrek

Banned
FartOfWar said:
http://www.1up.com/do/blogEntry?bId=8793635&publicUserId=4551247

The Transformative Magic of Too Human's Denis Dyack
Snippet: Dyack's been reading books about technology and the creation of culture. He has attended a business symposium. Now he hopes to forge from the insights of these independent sources a unified theory that will explain everything from Too Human's somewhat negative press to...well, Too Human's somewhat negative press.

That's your blog.
 

Kinitari

Black Canada Mafia
AFTER Dyack when on his rant, claiming the people on Neogaf are detrimental to society, people starting saying stuff like "Uhm, yeah, not buying this game out of spite now" and "screw your crappy game" - but before that? My guess it was something like 95%* of people were saying "Terrible animations, preview is telling me the story is bland, and its 10 hours long. No 4player co-op and no offline co-op. Do not want". Are those arguments invalid because they haven't played the game? Not really - everything there is fact.

I also don't get this 'hive' mentality people are giving Gaf. If something pisses off the majority of people, the majority of people are going to voice it. With all this 'anonymity' I have, I'm not going to worry about making you sad - like I probably would face to face, so I'll be honest. It doesn't even sound like you want repricocity - just pity.

Also - what REALLY pisses me off is that he is holding ME up to HIS sense of ethics. What bullshit is that - he is in essence preaching. Well fuck that, I don't want to be converted - my 'religion' tells me to be honest, and state how I feel.

One last thing... what were all these personal attacks on Dyack... I think there was ONE gif with his face on that poorly animated character fighting off that mechanical monsters mouth. And then like... if anyone made a comment about HIM personally (like on his physical appearance) they were immediately banned. So it looks like Gaf has it's own set of ethics, and tough shit if they don't align with yours.

* 95% of people against =p
 
Crimson Kid: Amir0x is many things but I don't think a troll is one of them. He's passionate, articulate and sometimes a wee bit zealous in stating his opinions, willing to pour time and energy into arguements that would deter me from even starting one with him at times, but a troll? Straight from the system wars board on GameFAQ's at that? To say that's disengenuous is putting it kindly.

Also I'm sick of seeing this term bandied about, the hivemind meme. It takes something special to get anything bordering on concensus from a message board as huge as this with thousands of active members at any given time. In the years I've spent lurking and eventually posting here, that rarely ever happens. The only time I see a hive mind mentioned is when someone seems to need villify a, usually contrary, opinion that they just don't want to debate. We're all guilty of it, pajoritively dismissing someone's opinion in such a manner but it should really stop.
 

Grecco

Member
What a baffling baffling podcast. Highly entretaining Ive listened to it twice and plan on listening to it tonight again.

Apologies if what ill say has been mentioned before. (I just recently was able to post again)

Anyways. It was probably mentioned but hes kind of a hypocrite. He claims hes against outsourcing, has an argument with the developers behind timeshift but fails to mention he was outsourcing the engine.

Hes claims Neogaf outed Jeff Bell but has no problems using the internet to find out Kittownys address. He talks about ethical buisness but hes using Unreal tech without paying for it in the new Too Human Engine.

In the end of the day, his diatribe isnt about reform, about reciprocity, its about getting back against the Too Human bashers. In between wondering twice if he could shut gaf down, he talks about holding posters accountable for bashing too human without playing it. He wants to get his "revenge" on posters for judging without playing it. (Becuase the general consumer has that opportunity right?).

In the end hes just bitter. Bitter that his magnus opus has been splattered by tomatos by people. Hes lashing out. He lashed out against the enthuthiast press and E3, hes lashed out against Epic and the Unreal Engine and now hes lashing out at consumers. One wonders if it goes badly for TH Next month who will Dennis lash out next.

Finally i wanted to say i had incredible amount of respect for Garnett and how he stood up to Dennis ridicolous diatribe. Also im glad Shawn pointed out the inconsitencies and half truths (Like the Star Wars Kid incident) in Dyacks manifesto. And i want to say how disapointed i was with Shane Bettenhausen. Who clearly read alot of Gaf (He talks about the Penny Arcade thread, and multiple Too Human threads for instance). Shane has no problem reading tons of Gaf, even akwnoledging his "Mangod" status but still acts like a lap dog to Dyacks nonsense. For Shame.

One last thing i wanted to say how utterly wrong Dyacks definition of Gaf was. He makes it sound like were an unmoderated pool of sharks. Like Shane calls us a "Hive of scum and villany". When it couldnt be futherst from the truth. When he talks about accountability or lack. There is accountability if you break the rules you get banned. (Trust me i know of that). Tags arent a currency. Heres a secret Dyack. Nobody cares about tags. Everybody wants one cause its cool but we dont care what they actually say. Gafs currency is ones account. The ability to post, and have the ability to express oneself.
 

Rorschach

Member
I'm not really familiar with 1up Yours (first time I listen)... Is Shane always like that? He was doing a way better job of corralling Mr Dyack and expanding on his thoughts than his PR agent.

Is it the Crossfire format where each of the hosts takes a side and either pushes or tries to detract from the guest's agenda? If so, it didn't seem like Garnett was as prepared or exposed to the topic, so the way it played out was a bit uneven and there was no real fact checking. Dyack was free to present as many half facts and favorably skewed stories as he wished without rebuttal.

Not that I'm a fan of that format in the first place, but that's a topic for another thread.
 

CoG

Member
Rorschach said:
I'm not really familiar with 1up Yours (first time I listen)... Is Shane always like that? He was doing a way better job of corralling Mr Dyack and expanding on his thoughts than his PR agent.

For some reason Shane's been enamored with Too Human and Dyack since he took a trip to Silicon Knights about six months ago. I find it odd as he's historically gone out of his way to shit on every 360 exclusive to date, but who knows what the deal is?
 
After listening to Dyack's points in the podcast I'm kinda confused about what was going on there? (this may be long-winded)

I mean....he tries to explain the forum society with blanket statements that are just not true, while pointing out obvious things that are inherent given the nature of message boards. I don't give a damn what my "tag" is by name. Why does he advocate that it is so detrimental and meaningful to some people. To be quite frank, if some person was so distraught by the fact that his tag was something unfavorable then I think there are more underlying issues than the message boards. Is it the message boards "responsibility" to ensure that he receives a favorable tag under his name. Absolutely not. It's a private organization/club....sorry, but if you can't stand the heat get outta the kitchen.

Also, of course there is a lack of being held accountable for what you say on the message boards......That is a reason why people visit in the first place. By not being held accountable for what you say on a message board community you get somebody's honest opinion/thoughts, which is what, at least I, strive for. It gets down the point at hand without skirting about politeness. I wanna know all sides of the story, I wanna read the most brutal thing somebody can say about an issue, or the most glowingly positive thing.

I think it comes down to Denis reading these new books, and trying to rationalize what was going on in the internet around these books, as a way to "attack" his biggest critics of Too Human, the message board community
 
Rorschach said:
I'm not really familiar with 1up Yours (first time I listen)... Is Shane always like that? He was doing a way better job of corralling Mr Dyack and expanding on his thoughts than his PR agent.

Yes, very much so....Shane does a good job at corralling the topic at hand into a little ball of neatness.
 

avatar299

Banned
Am i missing something here? Kittonwy gets praise for saying the exact same thing people were saying about Dyack and Too human a year ago when it involved the E3 nonsense.
 

Snowden

Banned
avatar299 said:
Am i missing something here? Kittonwy gets praise for saying the exact same thing people were saying about Dyack and Too human a year ago when it involved the E3 nonsense.
Did something change?
 

TheOddOne

Member
CoG said:
For some reason Shane's been enamored with Too Human and Dyack since he took a trip to Silicon Knights about six months ago. I find it odd as he's historically gone out of his way to shit on every 360 exclusive to date, but who knows what the deal is?

What, did i miss something?
 
avatar299 said:
Am i missing something here? Kittonwy gets praise for saying the exact same thing people were saying about Dyack and Too human a year ago when it involved the E3 nonsense.
Few ideas are really original or revelatory, but that doesn't mean the good ones shouldn't be posted many times. Gotta cancel out the dumb stuff somehow.
 

undrtakr900

Member
Speculating without Playing:
Dyack it should be your #1 goal to release a demo, even if its after the game's release. Many people aren't going to gamble $60 dollars to "try" something out. I can't count how many times I bought(or avoided) a game based on the demo, just look how Bioshock popularity exploded after the demo was released.

Goup Mentality:
Denis you're forgetting that the biggest group mentality is from legit Previews/Reviews, how many people here said Lair or Haze "sucks" without having played it because that was the general consensus of the Reviews? If all the Too Human Previews were glowing positive most people here would be praising TH in anticipation and that would be perfectly fine but you only have a problem when its negative. Its like that for all forms of media, GAF isn't the center of the universe so I don't know why you single us out.

Online Insults:
Lastly remember you are a Public Representative, when you put yourself out there you have to know how to deal with the criticism. Remember when the Wii-mote was first announced immediately followed by "LuLz" or "Nintendo is Doomed!" with hilarious photoshop threads? Nintendo didn't go on a big tirade about how "People are afraid of change", no they just--as you said: "Put up or Shut-up" and now they are the #1 console manufaturer.

Moral:
Let the quality of your game be your Voice, you don't have to be so vocal yourself. To use Nintendo as an example again the "Doomed!" meme has now turned into "Nintendomination" because they let the hardware/games speak for themselves. If your game turns out as good(w/ 9+ scores) as you say it'll be then you won't have to say a dam thing either when it's released.
FartOfWar said:
http://www.1up.com/do/blogEntry?bId=8793635&publicUserId=4551247

The Transformative Magic of Too Human's Denis Dyack
Snippet: Dyack's been reading books about technology and the creation of culture. He has attended a business symposium. Now he hopes to forge from the insights of these independent sources a unified theory that will explain everything from Too Human's somewhat negative press to...well, Too Human's somewhat negative press.
Excellent well thought out blog post, wish you were there to speak your mind that would have made the podcast better with an actual debate:D
 

lockload

Member
The question I have to ask the moderators of GAF: Are you going to follow your own rules? With people making GIFs of myself that are, I would say, attacking me.... Why haven't 180 people been banned now? If I wanted to move in and shut that place down, do I have grounds under their own forum policy?"

I think the answer to this is obvious the mods are in most cases in on it
 

Dave Long

Banned
Drinky Crow said:
i'm almost inclined to suspect this, if dyack himself didn't seem so hyperwrought and douche-y over the whole shebang. it would at least explain why his handler didn't step in at the ten minute mark and say "oookay, good interview, thanks everyone, buy too human! denis needs to take break!"

at the very least, i expect this explanation to be denis' new self-aggrandizing vector after too human is released and the backlash rumbles on.
Yeah, this is a good way to deflect all criticism of the game if it performs poorly with reviewers. "Hey, I told you they suck at reviews! AND it's a dogpile because it's the Internet! Shut down GAF!"

Denis always seemed like a reasonable guy to me before all this nonsense, so that's just one more reason I think he's probably using this as a marketing angle. The only problem is this thread title doesn't have his game's title in it, which is part of that whole marketing via forum conversation things that you hope will happen when you're doing this.
 
FartOfWar said:
http://www.1up.com/do/blogEntry?bId=8793635&publicUserId=4551247

The Transformative Magic of Too Human's Denis Dyack
Snippet: Dyack's been reading books about technology and the creation of culture. He has attended a business symposium. Now he hopes to forge from the insights of these independent sources a unified theory that will explain everything from Too Human's somewhat negative press to...well, Too Human's somewhat negative press.

Great read. I think the only parts you might have missed out on, or just felt didn't need to be included, were all the incorrect 'facts' Dennis kept bringing up throughout the podcast.

and the idea of 'shutting down' a videogame discussion forum for its discussion of a videogame is demented.

Spot on.
 

Flavius

Member
Dave Long said:
Denis always seemed like a reasonable guy to me before all this nonsense, so that's just one more reason I think he's probably using this as a marketing angle. The only problem is this thread title doesn't have his game's title in it, which is part of that whole marketing via forum conversation things that you hope will happen when you're doing this.

By "nonsense" you mean prior to E3 2006, right? Cuz this dude's been acting pretty fucking wacky ever since Mark McDonald dared to rate his game "TERRRRRRRRRIBLE" in EGM's E3 Preview feature.
 

Grecco

Member
Is there a podcast with Too Human talk from 06 that i could listen to in some archive or something? Zune has only still 1up yours 07
 

Dave Long

Banned
Flavius said:
By "nonsense" you mean prior to E3 2006, right? Cuz this dude's been acting pretty fucking wacky ever since Mark McDonald dared to rate his game "TERRRRRRRRRIBLE" in EGM's E3 Preview feature.
Pretty much. Denis has been around these boards and others for a long time.
 

Flavius

Member
Grecco said:
Is there a podcast with Too Human talk from 06 that i could listen to in some archive or something? Zune has only still 1up yours 07

Oh, there should be a doozy from EGM Live (I think that was the one) somewhere. Somewhat different topic, same poorly-articulated points.
 
TheOddOne said:
What, did i miss something?

Apparently. Shane seems to accentuate any good feature to the PS3 or its games, while he never mentions or does not care to even listen about Xbox. My opinion, but seriously...I don't even pay much attention to him, but he seems so passionate shitting on the 360.

In other news, Kittowny wins for the month, and I'm thirding the "Owned by Kittowny" statement
 

mattiewheels

And then the LORD David Bowie saith to his Son, Jonny Depp: 'Go, and spread my image amongst the cosmos. For every living thing is in anguish and only the LIGHT shall give them reprieve.'
finally brought myself to listen to the podcast.....

god he sounds so insufferable. he does have good points at times, but most of it's just pseudo-intellectual whining. i can't believe all the guys in the room were just letting him roll without calling him out.

i've never heard someone bring 'i read this book.....' 'i read THIS book......' 'and in THIS book i read.......' up so much in a conversation. really insufferable.
 
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