Embarrassing.
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Destiny 2 PC Aim Assist Needs to be FIXED
- Thread starter Strakt
- Start date
Embarrassing.
I play Siege on consoles, a game that has no aim assist. So I am very well aware of my capabilities and what kind of control a game requires. What works in one game does not necessarily works for another. Why do you think aim assistance is so prevalent in console games? It's certainly not because oh those are all casuals and lack skills !
You can believe whatever you want and make this thing about me but if you really believe that then you have absolutely zero idea about what kind of game Destiny is like nor do the people who are saying that. I can positively say that if Destiny did not have aim assistance then all the posts, opinions and topics over the past 3 years about how the game's gunplay is amazing....simply would not exist. Period ! Because it does not take long to determine why Destiny's gameplay loop feels so satisfying, it's because you can move and shoot with your instincts rather than having to worry about perfectly aligning every shot you make. It's the ONLY console shooter out there where you can move like you do and shoot with instincts and aim assistance is almost entirely the reason for it. This isn't up for debate and anyone who even tries to debate this would only prove that they don't know much about this game.
How much Destiny have you played till date or how much Destiny do you think the people you are talking about have played? I can say with 100% confidence that it's not enough....if you/they've played it at all. Otherwise you all would have noticed every single caveats I am talking about here regarding Destiny's gameplay.
You can disagree with me and follow up with a knee jerk reaction post or atleast introspect and analyse what I'm trying to say here. And let's not forget that the people who do use this exploit are limited by the same limitations that controllers have...on an input method whose entire existence is built around not having this limitation.
so does this automatically grant you AA then? Can you see if your reticule actually focuses on a target while aiming?
Because holy shit that sounds....really bad...
deletethis123
Banned
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BRocknRolla
Member
It's like playing Halo and trying to shoot your teammates while they move around. It's literally damn near impossibly unless they stand still.
Aim assist is literally necessary to use a controller in an FPS to any sort of competent degree.
The only game I can think of that has controller support with no AA is Overwatch. And basically what other people say is "it's fine as long as you play characters where you don't have to aim accurately".
Because it's impossible. Controllers just aren't precise enough to actually shoot anyone without AA.
likedamaster
Member
L
O
L
First bragging about having perfect aim over controllers, now complaining about controller aim assist.
Don't touch it bungie. Leave as is. Played with both, no problems.
O
L
First bragging about having perfect aim over controllers, now complaining about controller aim assist.
Don't touch it bungie. Leave as is. Played with both, no problems.
paperspace
Member
Last edited:
Honestly after playing half the beta with PC and half with controller, they're both fine in PvE, but the aim-assisted tracking is a tad too high on controller in PvP. If you're at all good with one, it's so much easier to hit headshots on controller compared to MKB.
Maybe if they change it to only snap onto body and make the players manually adjust every shot to the head it'd be fine. Still eliminates strafing though, needs to be toned down a bit.
Maybe if they change it to only snap onto body and make the players manually adjust every shot to the head it'd be fine. Still eliminates strafing though, needs to be toned down a bit.
The main reason a PC version exists is due to a contract between Activision and Bungie. It was leaked during the Activision lawsuit a few years ago. Doesn't really have anything to do with console owners.
AllIsOneIsNone
Banned
This thread summed up:
"Aim assist sucks, disable it, you should be using m/kb on PC anyway, it's superior."
"But the game was designed for a gamepad, people are going to want to play it that way."
"But people can hack it and use the keyboard with aim assist."
"But it still doesn't give you advantage because it limits you to gamepad aiming sensitivity, and you can't change an entire input method because a few people abuse the system."
"Yes you can."
"No you can't."
"Yes you can."
"What is this, a NeoGAF rendition of Annie Get Your Gun?"
"Aim assist sucks, disable it, you should be using m/kb on PC anyway, it's superior."
"But the game was designed for a gamepad, people are going to want to play it that way."
"But people can hack it and use the keyboard with aim assist."
"But it still doesn't give you advantage because it limits you to gamepad aiming sensitivity, and you can't change an entire input method because a few people abuse the system."
"Yes you can."
"No you can't."
"Yes you can."
"What is this, a NeoGAF rendition of Annie Get Your Gun?"
Sora the Cat
Member
Forgot the part where a lot of us agree that just changing the aim assist to the upper chest and not the head would be a perfect reasonable solution for the problem and AA wouldn't have to be removed.
The à¹ÛBronx
Member
No, that recoil is reduced significantly for it compared to controller. That person indicated it was a non-issue, which is why I said that they shouldn't only care about the one affecting them.
Hope that clears it up, you were lacking the context of the prior posts.
AllIsOneIsNone
Banned
ah, yes, I did. I still don't get that though, I didn't feel like there was much head magnetism at all and I played a lot with the gamepad. If that is the case then yes, definitely change it.
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
i have zero interest in Destiny 1. i am talking about the gameplay on D2. Iike i said early, i tried with controller too. and i can say that it is basicaly as "bad" as other shooters i tried with controller (that also had assist). i can't see nothing special on gameplay with controller here. meanwhile with m&kb is basicaly "normal'.
and i never said that doesn't require skill to play with assist. just that you never hit your targets "alone"
Again, I have yet to see anyone provide proof that the aim assist snaps to the head, or anywhere for that matter. Snapping to the body would be terrible, you would have to fight aim assist to hit headshots.
The à¹ÛBronx
Member
That's a shame, Destiny's gunplay has been repeatedly regarded as some of the best in the genre. I also share that opinion and have nearly as many hours with KB&M as I do controller (until I got a PS4 I played on PC exclusively).
As an aside, how do you feel about Aim Assist with regard to accessibility?
Glass Shark
Banned
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Ghost is Bad
Banned
isnt it funny how destiny apologists pretend that having a mkb with that level of aim assist is in any way ok
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
The ๖ۜBronx;247512251 said:
sorry, but for me best in the genre is something like Quake 3/Live with rail gun at 500+fps
what do you mean by accessibility? like deficient people? if yes, i would recomend trying m&kb first, because its easier to play
. wiimote+ nunchuk after and controller without assist first to test... assisted aiming would be the last IMOGlass Shark
Banned
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Avid Reading Horse
Member
Aim assist pretty much broke the meta on console into G2 camping on rooftops on console. So even just in that vacuum it was kind of bad. They eventually nerfed aim assist a bit but I honestly haven't played enough PVP since then to get a good feel for it. I've been spending my limited Titanfall time on Frontier Defense when Siege has me too stressed out.
Now, as far as hooking up a XIM to Titanfall PC... it's a huge boost for anything hitscan. For anything with travel time the aim assist just gets in the way. That's mostly just certain Titans.
But in general I would say XIM will make any mouse player significantly more effective. The turn rate, especially in Titanfall 2, is fast enough to where for most things it's fine. No you can't do instant-snap 180s but oh well. The thing with Titanfall is that the aim assist gives you a fair amount of free aim tracking once you're on target. If someone changes their direction, with no aim assist and raw mouse, you're just missing your shots until you react. But with the amount of tracking you get, so long as you react somewhat quickly you won't lose your target at all on a XIM. Combined with the low TTK and quick health regen it makes a huge difference.
Destiny always worked a bit differently. For PVE the aim assist is super strong. Controller or XIM, the aiming always felt pretty trivial. For PVP aim assist seemed significantly toned down. But I always hated Destiny PVP so I never really figured out the optimal way to work with the aim assist there. I got the feeling that auto tracking was far less of a problem compared to Titanfall.
Also, in Destiny how the aim assist works gets a bit muddled because not only is it different between PVP and PVE, but different weapons have different aim assist values. And not just for the sticky/tracking aim stuff. Also for the bullet magnetism stuff where you're awarded hits even though you're not quite aiming at your target. Anyone who has played a decent bit of the original Destiny PVE can tell you that certain enemies you're actually best off just shooting a bit above their heads so you get credited with critical shots without your shots curving into a shield or a body shot.
It seems like Destiny 2 is keeping the variable aim assist stuff, at least judging by the descriptions of the optics on some of the guns I've looked at. But that stuff is completely irrelevant on M+K... except for maybe magnetism? It kinda felt like there was some magnetism on raw M+K but I didn't explicitly test.
The lowered recoil between controller and raw M+K is a clear indication that they design the shooting to be as forgiving as possible across the board. In an M+K only world it's completely unneeded in my opinion. I think they just always knew they were keeping full controller aim assist in the game and wanted to throw M+K players a bone.
Woo-Fu
Banned
I agree, m&k shouldn't be forced to play against aim assisted people.
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
lol
better. I can't hit 100% the targets with mouse, so mouse clearly needs assist too. so, Bungie don't patch the exploit pls...
BRocknRolla
Member
Why even participate in this conversation if you're just going to post nonsense?
These statements are disengenuous comparisons at best, and I'm sure you recognize that.
Persona RS
Member
People assumed that M/K and XIM combo would marry the precision of the M/K with the AA from the controller. But it turns out, by using the M/K with the XIM, you emulate the analog sticks which means loss of precision and fast movement. It's not the same as a raw K/M experience and it's not an advantage by any means.
My take from all this discussion is that PC is a platform of choices, except on what you use to play a game on PC. It's less about AA and more about elitism; on people that don't want controllers in their platform of choice.
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
RichiRamjag
Member
who are you to judge the way i want to play?
He wasn't doing that at all. You're throwing out false equivalencies in a very poor attempt at wit (the smiley face doesn't make it clever).
Kittehkraken
Member
So you gotta get gud for aim assist now? Isn't that the total opposite of what everyone says about aim assist? lol
That's not what's happening though. The issue is that an entire control method should not be removed just because of a small amount of possible hackers.
Woo-Fu
Banned
Don't need to remove it, separate lobbies for the aim-assisted will handle it. That way people who think aim assist is just fine in PC FPS can play with people who agree with them.
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
where am i throwing equivalencies? i am comparing mouse with vs without assist now
That would kill a game with as small a population as Titanfall or Battlefield. Completely unneeded.
Woo-Fu
Banned
This isn't titanfall, this is Destiny 2. Either it will be huge and it won't matter, or it will flop... and it won't matter.
As far as the BF comparison I have no idea what you're talking about. BF already has more queues than this would result in for Destiny 2, is it killed? NOPE. Try again.
Gold_Loot
Member
Gotta disagree there. Sure, mouse look is easier and snappier to acquire targets. But I've seen plenty of pad users that can be competitive without AA.
The à¹ÛBronx
Member
Against KB&M? That seems physically impossible for players on an even skill level considering the limitations on standard controller inputs. Which controller were they using? What game was this for?
Sorry for the bombardment of questions, I just feel I'm either misunderstanding or lacking context.
Gold_Loot
Member
Well nah, against mouse , most the times in a head on fight mouse will win ( unless the fight doesn't involve hit scan weapons, than the pad has more an even chance )The ๖ۜBronx;247522064 said:
I'm talking more about lack of AA in a console shooter. Yes, you're not going to do any zippy fast sniping without AA , but with a little practice , you can do well a controller.
VlaudTheImpaler
tl;dr
Wait a minute, how do you do this?
I'm asking because if they fix the AA this may be a way for me to use C+M if they really don't ever implement it properly right?.
Gold_Loot
Member
Did you make a thread on that? Maybe you should link it.
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
in which games?
I did post a detailed critique actually, knock yourself out:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=244585350&postcount=588
You can't. People are spreading bullshit. For aim assist to work in Destiny 2 you must use controller scheme and this one can't do 1:1 mouse movement.
Gold_Loot
Member
Looks like it was a pretty active thread :shrug: not sure what the problem is talking about other aspects of the game.
Exactly, in the "'Recoil on KB+M on Destiny 2 needs to be FIXED" thread I will argue the best solution is to remove mouse support in the game because mouse players have an advantage over players using controllers because they have reduced recoil.
It depends on the game, a game like Siege has no AA and can be played without AA and the players can still be competitive. But that's a different kind of game. Killzone Shadowfall is another console FPS without AA and you can see how slow that game plays in comparison.
The kind of gameplay and "gunplay" Destiny offers, is just not possible to have without the AA it has. Bungie are masters of console shooters (hell they invented modern console shooter controls) and they know what's needed to make a movement based FPS feel good on a controller.
One of the most amazing things about Destiny was that you had a console shooter where you are shooting while being constantly on the move jumping, hipfiring, shooting with instincts. In that, Destiny is unique and even shooters like Titanfall don't offer that because despite the fast traversal system the actual shooting/gunplay (on consoles) is slower and grounded compared to Destiny. And this is why you don't really do these things in any console shooter because the system just isn't built around it to support that...especially when it's a game without AA.
Congrats you're providing feedback on what you personally don't like about the game..Almost all your sentences start with "I" because you don't like those aspects. This thread is about a potential exploit that could ruin the fun for others in pvp.. what you posted is all about you. You should get your priorities straight TBH