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[ferom]

In that case, I'll mirror MaLDo's question. Why is it such a big issue in Destiny 2?

Because a lot of people are misinformed about how it works and the limitations that apply. Also some people with an obvious agenda just straight up lying, like this guy:

It is absolutely cheating.

I plugged my controller in and used my kb/m and had insane numbers of kills. I unplugged the controller and used my kb/m and was average.

It's obviously cheating, how can people argue that it's not?

That's not how it works. Maybe I was harsh in saying that you lied, placebo is a thing.

 

[BRocknRolla]

I plugged my controller in and used my kb/m and had insane numbers of kills. I unplugged the controller and used my kb/m and was average.

That's not how this works. The game swaps you back to mouse controls if you start using a mouse. Having a controller plugged in makes no difference. If you pick up the controller and start using that, it swaps to controller (Including AA).

Any difference was the placebo effect on your part.

 

[Kildrek]

I thought you had to make modifications to get aim assist on mouse and keyboard? Are you saying you just plugged in your controller and your mouse had aim assist automatically?



That's what everything I've read states.

Yeah, I just plugged the thing in and started getting better shot percentage with the hand cannon and not having the enemy on the red dot while firing.

Then I unplugged it and couldn't get hits unless I had the red dot on the guy.

 

[AllIsOneIsNone]

Yeah, I just plugged the thing in and started getting better shot percentage with the hand cannon and not having the enemy on the red dot while firing.

Then I unplugged it and couldn't get hits unless I had the red dot on the guy.

Placebo is a hell of a drug.

 

[MaLDo]

Yeah, I just plugged the thing in and started getting better shot percentage with the hand cannon and not having the enemy on the red dot while firing.

Then I unplugged it and couldn't get hits unless I had the red dot on the guy.

Magic. Or rocket science. '¬_¬


Posted?

"I've seen on Reddit, Twitter etc that many people are bending my words to state that the XIM is now 'OP'. Nope. Not at all what I've said. Here's what I've said in the past:

"In Destiny's sandbox, because of how the aim assist has functioned, a controller with aim assist is on-par with a mouse with aim assist via the XIM. When you leave Destiny, things change. But we're talking about Destiny, aren't we?"

In a further statement to PC Gamer, Dr Lupo points out "the XIM still involves translation, which means it will never be as precise as a native mouse." He also acknowledges that the existence of any aim assist will give salty players a cop-out excuse for losing, inviting toxicity in the community.

Great last sentence.

 

[BRocknRolla]

Yeah, I just plugged the thing in and started getting better shot percentage with the hand cannon and not having the enemy on the red dot while firing.

Then I unplugged it and couldn't get hits unless I had the red dot on the guy.

Self fulfilling prophecy then. It isn't how this works. There's even a slight delay when switch between the two because it's changing the control profile.

 

[Kildrek]

Placebo is a hell of a drug.

Shits wild since literally 15 of us were able to do it, must be 15 placebo junkies floating around out there.

 

[MaLDo]

Shits wild since literally 15 of us were able to do it, must be 15 placebo junkies floating around out there.

Combine that with doritos and you will rock your k/d.

 

[texhnolyze]

He also acknowledges that the existence of any aim assist will give salty players a cop-out excuse for losing, inviting toxicity in the community.

Well well..

 

[Kildrek]

Combine that with doritos and you will rock your k/d.

Dew-S-A flavor Mountain Dew too.

Bout to call all the old people names bruh

 

[AllIsOneIsNone]

Shits wild since literally 15 of us were able to do it, must be 15 placebo junkies floating around out there.

You can see it chug for a second when you change inputs. It even switches the menu between kb/m keys and gamepad buttons.

 

[BRocknRolla]

Shits wild since literally 15 of us were able to do it, must be 15 placebo junkies floating around out there.

In this debate? Would not surprise me a bit.

There are a lot of people just looking to support their side rather than uncovering the truth of the matter.

But the only way what you're saying is true is if you uncovered a bug that no one has noticed up until this point, which, given the amount of debate on the topic already, I highly doubt. It would have been a central talking point.

 

[MaLDo]

Just read in reddit about controller aim assist on destiny 2 pc:

This isn't going to be fixed unless we make it a problem. So let's make it a problem.

That's why we can't have nice things

 

[Kyne]

so this is an issue because having a controller plugged in gives a mouse+kb aim assist, right? So all they need to do is make it so that the AA goes away whenever utilizing a mouse+kb setup?

this thread has gone so many places that I'm not actually sure what everyone's main complaint is.

 

[Latvian Hitman]

Shits wild since literally 15 of us were able to do it, must be 15 placebo junkies floating around out there.

Do what? Be fooled by your expectations/perceptions? There are over 7 billion people on our little planet who are able to do that.

so this is an issue because having a controller plugged in gives a mouse+kb aim assist, right?

Wrong. Simply having both plugged in does nothing for you. Getting controller aim assist on your mouse requires an additional exploit. It also locks your mouse to controller turn speeds, which isn't a great tradeoff.

 

[Glass Shark]

.

 

[BRocknRolla]

so this is an issue because having a controller plugged in gives a mouse+kb aim assist, right? So all they need to do is make it so that the AA goes away whenever utilizing a mouse+kb setup?

this thread has gone so many places that I'm not actually sure what everyone's main complaint is.

I've seen no evidence of this besides one poster's comments.

 

[MaLDo]

I'm criticizing someone using an exploit with a controller plugged in and using the mouse to aim because that's a shitty thing to do.

You want to play with just a controller, I have no idsues with.

You want to exploit to make yourself feel better at a game for? Bonus internet points? I don't get it.

Only one of us has tried to use this exploit. You. Even you thought that it was working. It wasn't.

Bonus internet points? I don't get it.

 

[texhnolyze]

so this is an issue because having a controller plugged in gives a mouse+kb aim assist, right? So all they need to do is make it so that the AA goes away whenever utilizing a mouse+kb setup?

this thread has gone so many places that I'm not actually sure what everyone's main complaint is.

It's not that simple. People are basically cheating.

 

[MaLDo]

It's not that simple. People are basically cheating.

No.

They are using a "controller scheme" with a mouse. Exactly like every console player that uses a mouse in a ps4 or xbox. They don't gain magically mouse precision.

You can not play Destiny 2 on pc with aim assists and mouse precision/speed. You have to choose one of the two modes whatever the gaming device you're using.

Both in PC or console, you need some tweaking or external devices to mix controller behaviour with mouse devices but is possible.

 

[texhnolyze]

No.

They are using a "controller scheme" with a mouse. Exactly like every console player that uses a mouse in a ps4 or xbox. They don't gain magically mouse precision.

You can not play Destiny 2 on pc with aim assists and mouse precision/speed. You have to choose one of the two modes whatever the gaming device you're using.

Both in PC or console, you need some tweaking or external devices to mix controller behaviour with mouse devices but is possible.

But it gives people huge advantage, right?

If there's no advantage people wouldn't be complaining and this thread wouldn't exist.

 

[blamite]

Removing aim assist from controller users on PC will absolutely destroy this game for me and probably most players who prefer a controller. Hopefully there's something that can satisfy everyone without doing that.

 

[doughEATER]

No.

They are using a "controller scheme" with a mouse. Exactly like every console player that uses a mouse in a ps4 or xbox. They don't gain magically mouse precision.

You can not play Destiny 2 on pc with aim assists and mouse precision/speed. You have to choose on of the two modes whatever the gaming device you're using.

Both in PC or console, you need some tweaking or external devices to mix controller behaviour with mouse devices.

So yeah. This is not even that big of an issue but this thread is 16 pages and growing. Few overblown experiences/placebo thrown in and everyone goes mad like a herd of sheep.
It's time to relax M/KB warriors....... breathe.

 

[Sora the Cat]

Removing aim assist from controller users on PC will absolutely destroy this game for me and probably most players who prefer a controller. Hopefully there's something that can satisfy everyone without doing that.

Adjust aim assist so it doesn't automatically give you a head shot every time you aim?

 

[texhnolyze]

Adjust aim assist so it doesn't automatically give you a head shot every time you aim?

Yes, I would be perfectly fine with that solution. Honestly, anything but removing aim assist completely.

 

[Sora the Cat]

Yes, I would be perfectly fine with that solution. Honestly, anything but removing aim assist completely.

Upper chest would be nice and some games do it, it lets you adjust it to the head easily when you get the hang of it. I would be fine with that too.

 

[RichiRamjag]

Yeah, I just plugged the thing in and started getting better shot percentage with the hand cannon and not having the enemy on the red dot while firing.

Then I unplugged it and couldn't get hits unless I had the red dot on the guy.

It's supposed to require additional modification based on every thing I've read up to now. I don't want to call you a liar, but I don't see how no one else has noticed it working as you described.

 

[Glass Shark]

.

 

[doughEATER]

Yes, I would be perfectly fine with that solution. Honestly, anything but removing aim assist completely.

Do not settle for that. If they start to tweak aim assist too much it won't be the same destiny experience anymore.

Right now we have:
M/KB -> Superior input device for FPS which benefits are obvious + tweaked recoil
M/KB( with gamepad spoof ) -> Cheating scum but they still using gamepad acceleration and other tweaks so it's not even that effective, maybe even less effective than raw M/KB experience
GAMEPAD -> People who right now enjoy Destiny as it should be and can be competitive against M/KB users

And a lot of screaming people who desire to fuck up experience for one particular group of players. Disgusting.

 

[texhnolyze]

It’s arguable at best. There are absolutely trade-offs involved. I would be surprised if an expert mouse and keyboard player would be consistently beat by someone using a mouse with controller emulation.

I see. So, after all is said and done, it all comes down to what Dr Lupo said in that PC Gamer article above.

Do not settle for that. If they start to tweak aim assist too much it won't be the same destiny experience anymore.

Right now we have:
M/KB -> Superior input device for FPS which benefits are obvious + tweaked recoil
M/KB( with gamepad spoof ) -> Cheating scum but they still using gamepad acceleration and other tweaks so it's not even that effective, maybe even less effective than raw M/KB experience
GAMEPAD -> People who right now enjoy Destiny as it should be and can be competitive against M/KB users

And a lot of screaming people who desire to fuck up experience for one particular group of players. Disgusting.

Seriously, it's kb/m users who are exploiting the system, don't sacrifice gamepad users who did no wrong.

I really hope Bungie will make the right decision.

 

[paperspace]

⁣

 

[Swarna]

Do not settle for that. If they start to tweak aim assist too much it won't be the same destiny experience anymore.

Right now we have:
M/KB -> Superior input device for FPS which benefits are obvious + tweaked recoil
M/KB( with gamepad spoof ) -> Cheating scum but they still using gamepad acceleration and other tweaks so it's not even that effective, maybe even less effective than raw M/KB experience
GAMEPAD -> People who right now enjoy Destiny as it should be and can be competitive against M/KB users

And a lot of screaming people who desire to fuck up experience for one particular group of players. Disgusting.

Someone's experience is always going to be compromised. As-is, the integrity of competitive PVP is suspect on PC. Maybe Destiny 2 shouldn't be a competitive game to begin with but you shouldn't act like the current situation doesn't already fuck over people.

Personally, I think D2 should just embrace full cross-platform play if they're really gonna push for this gamepad aim assist in competitive PVP. Microsoft is down. Sony can sit in their own isolated bubble if they wish.

 

[Zemm]

Do you need a xim for this to work? If so I don't see the problem, well I do, but I don't think it's as big as some make out. The xim emulates a controller and is nowhere near how a raw mouse and keyboard feels and its precision, even with AA. I do think they should probably tone down the aim assist anyway because from what I played of Destiny 1 it was too much, but getting rid of AA entirely? Nah. A good player is going to cream a xim user anyday.

Now if you can get AA whilst also using a raw kB&m, that's a problem.

 

[Glass Shark]

.

 

[doughEATER]

Do you need a xim for this to work? If so I don't see the problem, well I do, but I don't think it's as big as some make out. The xim emulates a controller and is nowhere near how a raw mouse and keyboard feels and its precision. I do think they should probably tone down the aim assist anyway because from what I played of Destiny 1 it was too much, but getting rid of AA entirely? Nah. A good player is going to cream a xim user anyday.

Now if you can get AA whilst also using a raw kB&m, that's a problem.

XIM is not needed for exploit but game still switches to different control scheme with it's tweaks and adjustments for analog sticks so it should be similar to how it is right now on consoles and cheaters there even if framerate is higher on PC.

These "M/KB warriors", "elitists" and "salty" posts really doesn't help.

Yeah i guess. My mistake.

 

[SpiceMelange]

As ferom pointed out again and again raw mouse is superior to emulating an analog stick, especially in destiny. Xim or software it doesnt natter you cannot go beyond the limitations of the stick. Can the narrative that xim recks raw mouse stop already?

 

[martino]

Someone's experience is always going to be compromised. As-is, the integrity of competitive PVP is suspect on PC. Maybe Destiny 2 shouldn't be a competitive game to begin with but you shouldn't act like the current situation doesn't already fuck over people.

But it's up to bungie to decide if the situation is as bad as some interpret it to be and if people it actually fuck over are that big backing it up on data , real knowledge of how things are done and not mostly on bias like all people here.

Doing it is not even cheating until they say it is, it's bungie game , bungie rules.
(that said odds they remove aa in pvp is 95% imo)

 

[blamite]

Adjust aim assist so it doesn't automatically give you a head shot every time you aim?

honestly I'm not sure of the top of my head where on an enemy player the reticle snaps to currently, so if it's to the head them yeah that seems like it'd help! I just want to be able to play on PC with a controller and have it feel as much like the console version as reasonably possible.

 

[Zemm]

XIM is not needed for exploit but game still switches to different control scheme with it's tweaks and adjustments for analog sticks so it should be similar to how it is right now on consoles and cheaters there even if framerate is higher on PC.

Yeah i guess. My mistake.

Xim or software acting like a xim is basically what I meant. If it's emulating a thumb stick then I don't see it as a big problem, those things suck compared to raw mouse and keyboard. It's not a reason to completely eliminate AA for those that want it. (I will never use a pad for fps games before anyone accuses me of something).

 

[Strakt]

I see. So, after all is said and done, it all comes down to what Dr Lupo said in that PC Gamer article above.



Seriously, it's kb/m users who are exploiting the system, don't sacrifice gamepad users who did no wrong.

I really hope Bungie will make the right decision.

Yea lets remove kb/m instead!!!

Spoiler

/s

 

[Kaleinc]

M/kb - no aim assist.
Pad plugged in - aim assist, 30 fps, fov, resolution, recoil etc identical to PS4.

Sounds fair.

 

[Kildrek]

It's supposed to require additional modification based on every thing I've read up to now. I don't want to call you a liar, but I don't see how no one else has noticed it working as you described.

We use the word "placebo" around here instead of liar.

 

[Glass Shark]

.

 

[nOoblet16]

When you emulate a controller and use KB/m your turning speed and mouse look speed is bound by the maximum speed allowed by a controller which is SIGNIFICANTLY lower in Destiny compared to the the turn speed controllers have in games like COD, let alone even compare it to the turn speed you get out of using non emulated KB/m. Not to mention the incredibly large recoil difference. So no it's not an automatic advantage, or a cheat or whatever. The people who do this would be considerably limiting their mouse movements because even the highest turn speed in Destiny using a controller is awfully low.

The gifs and videos you are seeing in this thread prove absolutely nothing because you cannot really determine just how much tracking the player is actually doing and how much the AA is helping. I see a few gifs where the aim is basically tracking the opponent 100% and pretending that it's all the AA. Having played Destiny for 3 years I can tell you that the game's aim assist would not let you do that without any user inputs at all.

Lastly, considering how heavy the AA is in Destiny it will just feel unnatural and go against your years of muscle memory to play with a KB/m control that not only has a limitation on max speed but also has the added nuance of an AA that keeps going in directions that you don't want. It's different with a controller because AA is a system built around the requirements of a controller, having that on a KB/m would feel incredibly jarring for starters and this is discounting the prior fact that you'll never actually be able to get even half the precision and speed of an actual mouse when emulating the controller in this particular game i.e. Destiny 2.

So it's not so clear cut as a lot of people are trying to put it out.

 

[family_guy]

Yikes. People already complaining. Not exactly inviting for a mostly console player considering transitioning to the PC version. Although I didn't touch competitive Destiny once, so it doesn't affect me.

 

[RichiRamjag]

We use the word "placebo" around here instead of liar.

Perhaps, but I just don't see how people who are against aim assist wouldn't have noticed by now either. You don't think it'd be plastered all over the forums and Reddit if it were this easy? Can anyone else in thread verify that you get aim assist on a standard mouse and keyboard simply by plugging in a controller? It definitely doesn't work like that on my end. It always required an external workaround as far as I knew.

There's no aim assist for native KBM, ignore him.

I thought I was completely off my rocker. Thanks.

 

[Swarna]

There's no aim assist for native KBM, ignore him.

 

[Strakt]

Anyways, for those who missed it bungie commented last night saying:

This is a topic we have anticipated. Thank you for sharing your points in a constructive manner. It’s a conversation we will continue to monitor. Please continue to share honest feedback about your experiences in the wild. This is why we test. Thanks for playing. We’ll talk more after the PC Beta.

I see them doing one of two things:

1) Removing AA from PVP but leaving as is in PVE

2) Lowering AA to the point where the people who exploit will get little to no advantage.

Something WILL happen regardless of what some want or think because exploiters ruin the fun for everyone. You can't make every single person happy.

 

[Glass Shark]

.

 

[Strakt]

Or they could run the data and find that this is not actually a statistically significant problem and instead is a hugely overblown issue shown mainly by a few GIFs and Twitch clips floating around.

You don't need statistics to understand that people cheat in every game. Not to mention this lets them do it for free while being undetected. Last I read, some people were cheating in some fishing game on steam with 300 players.. you think people aren't going to cheat in a huge ass game like Destiny wheres there is no consequences? Is this your first PC game?