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[Ivory Samoan]

Yeah, sad to see. I decided to buy the PC version but if this is the kind of mentality that prevails I shall reconsider quickly.

This is me as well, if they overly touch AA (unless it's frame rate adjusted, that'd be fine) I'm out maybe...hard to say.

I plan on playing this in HDR on my Ks8000 with a controller mostly, so if the feel goes it'd be bad news for me.

PS4 version obviously still my main, but this is my pretty version in 60fps

 

[Glass Shark]

.

 

[TharpDaddy]

"I don't want to learn new inputs or use a more accurate controller so give me aimbots to compensate"

People using controllers (like myself) isn't necessarily about being stubborn. I sit far away from my PC which would be hard with a mouse, and overall I enjoy using a controller more. I like rumble, to me it makes all the guns feel unique since I can feel their recoil and firing pattern and it makes me enjoy the game more. Having AA means I can play PC Destiny like console Destiny but with the higher fps and resolution that comes with it. It'd be shitty to take away my ability to play in the way that is most enjoyable for me for the game I bought.

 

[Complicated]

Cause you singled out PC when the same problem exists on Consoles.

I singled out PC because people found an easy exploit. Never said anything about aim assist.

 

[Swarna]

Cause you singled out PC when the same problem exists on Consoles.

The rationale is that KBM users are the vast majority of the playerbase, so their experience shouldn't be compromised to benefit a small minority of controller users. Nothing can be done about XIM on consoles. XIM and software emulation of controllers on can easily be thwarted by nuking AA completely for competitive PVP modes.

 

[Trace]

Im happy to see DTG on Reddit is talking about the same issue, the more backlash Bungie gets from this issue the more likely they are to change it.

And yes, most of the top posts their agree that Auto Aim has no place in PC PvP.

 

[LordRaptor]

Yeah, and make sure to downgrade your internet to dial-up. Wouldn't want to give people an advantage with low latency.

if a game randomly dropped packets, sent junk data and simulated artificial lag spikes to appease the few people using dialup and make everyone elses game much worse, sure, perfect analogy

 

[Jarate]

Im happy to see DTG on Reddit is talking about the same issue, the more backlash Bungie gets from this issue the more likely they are to change it.

And yes, most of the top posts their agree that Auto Aim has no place in PC PvP.

Reddit already decided guys, time to shut down the argument

 

[Huge Succeeded]

Sure am. This is a thread about Destiny 2 on PC though, so not sure why that's relevant.

you made the claim that Destiny 2 on PC
one of the best looking PC ports in modern times
is, based on this sole issue, exploitable and messy (even though it's not)
like 'everyone' expected (even though nobody who actually knows what they're talking about expects a messy game full of cheaters purchased thru Blizz launcher)
even though this issue can and likely will be addressed
while XIM4 usage on console versions, versions you would never describe as messy or exploitable, will never be

basically, it's relevant because it clearly demonstrates how you're just playing console wars right now. You don't know what you're talking about, and you don't give a fuck, either. There used to be a saying just for posters like you. It went, "something something Gamefaqs". Maybe you can recall the rest, you've certainly heard it before.

 

[martino]

The rationale is that KBM users are the vast majority of the playerbase, so their experience shouldn't be compromised to benefit a small minority of controller users.

things are the same until they are different.
and if the problem remain it will become false for others reason.
i could deal with k/m extremist to avoid this game.
they also are a minority

 

[Jaguar Victory]

I watched the clip in OP at 0.25x and it just looks like recoil repositioning to me. Am I crazy?

 

[PedroLumpy]

Oh dear. Why would you even go and open this can of worms. Even assuming there weren't exploits, how the hell are you ever going to figure out the 'right' amount of AA for PVP?

 

[The ๖ۜBronx]

Reddit already decided guys, time to shut down the argument

Especially as the most prominent related post currently on the front page is about KB&M advantage - https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyThe...s_you_do_have_less_recoil_when_using_a_mouse/

With the top post being:

I am mainly a console gamer and am not super good at mouse and keyboard, but boy was I tearing shit up on the PC beta despite unfamiliarity and no aim assist. This must be why, the recoil is almost non existent, hip firing is super reliable which I like. It feels like Halo for me with ADS being used for longer range engagements instead of a constant requirement in order to shoot reliably. Aiming in mid to close range with Hand cannons and SMGs felt worse than hip fire.

 

[Strakt]

Reddit already decided guys, time to shut down the argument

I mean its an exploit so there really cant be an argument here.

 

[BRocknRolla]

Shoddy evaluation of comparisons here. If KBM got the same level of aim assist as controllers there would be no question about performance differences. What we have here is an uneven match-up of input methods based on one being inferior to begin with but improved via artificial means. Is there ever such a thing as going overboard with this improvement? Yes, and I can give you an easy (but extreme) example. Let's say that a literal aim-bot is basically aim assist dialed to 100%. Tone it down to, say, 90%, and ask yourself whether that automatically become a "fair" amount of aim assist that majority of the playerbase will not have access to?

I hope that illustrates to you why the amount actually matters and how harmful it can be.

Destiny is known for having much more aim assist than other console games, so it becomes much more relevant to re-visit the amount of AA on the PC version. I can guarantee you that the average buyer for this game will be a casual KBM user not capable of consistently pulling off these shots with relative ease:

I'll direct you to my earlier response. I don't think think controller users should have an advantage with this, but just shutting AA off in PVP (Or terribly the whole game), doesn't fix the situation, it just moves back to the status quo. Having AA for the sake of balance is a good thing. If it goes too far, then it should be fixed.

That's a false equivalence. Competitive modes should rely on player skill.

But if one player has a tool that offers higher speed and accuracy even when both players are of equal skill, why is this so different? Why not do something to try to even the playing field?

Whether this specific situation goes too far or not for PVP, I have no experience or opinion, but I see no problem with trying to create a balanced experience despite differences in input. Dropping AA for PVP just puts controllers at a disadvantage, returning to the status quo, which clearly many kbm players would be pleased with, but doesn't actually improve things.

 

[boneyjangles]

Oh you mean like people playing on consoles with XIMs? Complain about that for a while, and see how far you get.

People tend to go with "more options better", no matter what the downsides.

 

[jim2point0]

It's disappointing to see so many people against aim assist for controllers on PC games.

It needs to be removed from KBM. That's all I care about. They have time. I'm sure they can fix it.

Controllers I don't care about. I doubt aim assist on a controller will be enough to make up for the superior mobility and aiming of KB/M. Though I'll never see Destiny as a hyper-competitive game regardless so... it shouldn't really matter. But maybe they can add a competitive mode or setting that removes it for people that don't want it at all.

 

[TharpDaddy]

I'll direct you to my earlier response. I don't think think controller users should have an advantage with this, but just shutting AA off in PVP (Or terribly the whole game), doesn't fix the situation, it just moves back to the status quo. Having AA for the sake of balance is a good thing. If it goes too far, then it should be fixed.

Again, I think the easiest solution is just detect how fast the person is aiming and turn off based on that. If someone is reacting and aiming faster than a controller can then they obviously have no reason to have aim assist. That allows the game to keep AA for controller users in pvp while also making it a really poor choice for m/kb users since they'd have to limit their aim speed so much that they may as well just use an actual controller. Everyone is on the top of turning it off or leaving it on when I think there's many other solutions to the exploit. Unless the discussion is about aim assist as a whole, in which case that's a different topic.

 

[Glass Shark]

.

 

[RichiRamjag]

Choice is "I can use whatever input I want, even if it might be suboptimal" not "I don't want to learn new inputs or use a more accurate controller so give me aimbots to compensate"

Sure it is. Some people are asking for the complete removal of controller input. If I said that, then please show me where, otherwise, learn to read.

 

[LordRaptor]

People using controllers (like myself) isn't necessarily about being stubborn. I sit far away from my PC which would be hard with a mouse, and overall I enjoy using a controller more. I like rumble, to me it makes all the guns feel unique since I can feel their recoil and firing pattern and it makes me enjoy the game more. Having AA means I can play PC Destiny like console Destiny but with the higher fps and resolution that comes with it. It'd be shitty to take away my ability to play in the way that is most enjoyable for me for the game I bought.

you can enjoy things however you want, but why should there be any guarantee that your choice should be competitively viable, particularly if it comes at someone elses expense?
If you know that kbm or steam controllers are more accurate than dual analogue pads, then choosing to use them is an informed choice that you are making in the name of your own enjoyment, just like using a bottom-tier character in a fighting game or MOBA is.

If your fun is not dependent on bot making a suboptimal choice, you will still have fun even though youre likely going to lose more.
If your fun in on winning then you should expect to make optimal choices.

e:

Sure it is. Some people are asking for the complete removal of controller input. Learn to read.

I only see people asking for AA to be removed.
The existence of things like joy2key means removing controllers is impossible.

 

[Mesoian]

I bet that, just like Overwatch, AA gets removed from the PC version entirely.

 

[X-Frame]

I can say with relative certainty that Bungie will never adjust Aim Assist values separately between PvE and PvP.

There is no way Bungie would ever allow a different gun feel when swapping between modes. They already have a long history of making universal balance changes due to PvP that also affects PvE.

If they do decide to adjust AA on PC when using a controller input, it'll be 100% across the board.

 

[texhnolyze]

Anyway, do I have to do anything to enable the aim assist?

I've only played the strike mission twice with a controller but I didn't really tinker the controller options.

 

[Trace]

Anyway, do I have to do anything to enable the aim assist?

I've only played the strike mission twice with a controller but I didn't really tinker the controller options.

If you're using a controller you already have aim assist.

 

[SpiceMelange]

Again, I think the easiest solution is just detect how fast the person is aiming and turn off based on that. If someone is reacting and aiming faster than a controller can then they obviously have no reason to have aim assist. That allows the game to keep AA for controller users in pvp while also making it a really poor choice for m/kb users since they'd have to limit their aim speed so much that they may as well just use an actual controller.

I dont think you undetstand how xim works. You emulate the joystick, you dont bypass it. Hence you're limited to the maximum turn speed of the joystick for flicks, and overall mouse look feels like youre in mud. You cant do anything that the joystick couldnt in the first place. There is complete hysteria over a non issue going on here. Raw mouse is superior to emulated analog and by far.

 

[Stevey]

Good job it's still in BETA.

 

[FinKL]

I bet that, just like Overwatch, AA gets removed from the PC version entirely.

Uhh that's horrible if it does. Overwatchs main draw is PvP while Destinys is PvE. Who cares if there is auto aim? It's what makes Destiny feel so good on console and needs to be on PC if console players plug in their control to PC.

AA defines certain guns and why some feel better (more AA) than others when using controller

 

[jim2point0]

I bet that, just like Overwatch, AA gets removed from the PC version entirely.

Overwatch is 100% PvP though, isn't it?

Destiny has PvE content which is a little more casual. So I wouldn't expect to see such a universal change like that.

I dont think you undetstand how xim works. You emulate the joystick, you dont bypass it. Hence you're limited to the maximum turn speed of the joystick for flicks, and overall mouse look feels like youre in mud. You cant do anything that the joystick couldnt in the first place. There is complete hysteria over a non issue going on here. Raw mouse is superior to emulated analog and by far.

I thought it was like that but wasn't sure. I mean, if you want aim assist using controllers on PC, then you should also be ok with keyboard\mouse raw input on consoles.

 

[Turin Turambar]

They could maintain it in PVE and only remove it in PVP.

Personally, I don't mind if they don't remove it, but decrease the strength of the aim assist to half of what it is right now.

 

[Huge Succeeded]

I dont think you undetstand how xim works. You emulate the joystick, you dont bypass it. Hence you're limited to the maximum turn speed of the joystick for flicks, and overall mouse look feels like youre in mud. You cant do anything that the joystick couldnt in the first place. There is complete hysteria over a non issue going on here. Raw mouse is superior to emulated analog and by far.

Sounds like you're well aware of what XIM4 is, but if you've ever used it, that use must have been limited to Horizon or Uncharted, or something.
THAT SAID, XIM is hacky. As you described, that's how it does what it does. And the results will certainly vary - but that's not to say you can't put together something STRIKINGLY close to how mouse input feels on PC. And there's those rare cases, like Overwatch, where XIM enables mouse controls that are as close to being functionally identical to native support as they possibly can be.
That's not even mentioning the advantages that come with being able to use a keyboard or something like the G13 in place of the left half of a controller.

I own a XIM4, and I know y'all won't believe me, but I refuse to use it for multiplayer games (and my acct history corroborates this - I stick to sp games on consoles, generally speaking). With that said, a large portion of that community seeks out control configs for games that are as close to mouse input as possible while retaining aim assist, on console and PC games. It's pretty shitty.

 

[BRocknRolla]

Again, I think the easiest solution is just detect how fast the person is aiming and turn off based on that. If someone is reacting and aiming faster than a controller can then they obviously have no reason to have aim assist. That allows the game to keep AA for controller users in pvp while also making it a really poor choice for m/kb users since they'd have to limit their aim speed so much that they may as well just use an actual controller. Everyone is on the top of turning it off or leaving it on when I think there's many other solutions to the exploit. Unless the discussion is about aim assist as a whole, in which case that's a different topic.

Yes, I agree that your suggestion is a good one if it's possible. I don't know enough about whether it is.

That said, there definitely are people in this thread who think AA has no place in PVP, full stop. I'm challenging that idea. I think a use of AA for balancing is valuable.

 

[TharpDaddy]

I dont think you undetstand how xim works. You emulate the joystick, you dont bypass it. Hence you're limited to the maximum turn speed of the joystick for flicks, and overall mouse look feels like youre in mud. You cant do anything that the joystick couldnt in the first place. There is complete hysteria over a non issue going on here. Raw mouse is superior to emulated analog and by far.

I thought that was the case, but I saw people saying stuff like this:

You DO NOT even need a XIM right now to have AA. You can do it using a mouse/keyboard with the use of different programs.

Which makes it sound like you get the AA but with the full speed of m/kb. If it's actually limited to controller speed I have no idea what the issue is. That person is just playing with a bit more precise controller and will still be at a disadvantage overall.

 

[Strakt]

I thought that was the case, but I saw people saying stuff like this:


Which makes it sound like you get the AA but with the full speed of m/kb. If it's actually limited to controller speed I have no idea what the issue is. That person is just playing with a bit more precise controller and will still be at a disadvantage overall.

Theres a reason the OW devs removed auto aim from the PC version as ppl were emulating the AA on the kb/m.

 

[texhnolyze]

If you're using a controller you already have aim assist.

I see. I think I can feel it, yeah, especially when aiming. It doesn't really help in hip fire.

 

[SpiceMelange]

I thought that was the case, but I saw people saying stuff like this:


Which makes it sound like you get the AA but with the full speed of m/kb. If it's actually limited to controller speed I have no idea what the issue is. That person is just playing with a bit more precise controller and will still be at a disadvantage overall.

Xim is a hardware solution to analog stick emulation but you can so it via software on pc no need to shell out $140. Same idea and limitations as xim tho

 

[Trace]

I thought that was the case, but I saw people saying stuff like this:


Which makes it sound like you get the AA but with the full speed of m/kb. If it's actually limited to controller speed I have no idea what the issue is. That person is just playing with a bit more precise controller and will still be at a disadvantage overall.

You're vastly overestimating the aiming capability of the average MKB player. None of us are arguing that SureFour can't beat a controller user, we're arguing for average players the controller is an advantage. XIM/Emulation software would be an even bigger advantage.

 

[SirMossyBloke]

An option to turn it off would be fine. And no question the initial aim assist is high. But there is substantial recoil with a controller and it takes numerous shots to kill a target. Good kb/m players will have an advantage in almost all situations.

Agreed.

 

[Felix Lighter]

Uhh that's horrible if it does. Overwatchs main draw is PvP while Destinys is PvE. Who cares if there is auto aim? It's what makes Destiny feel so good on console and needs to be on PC if console players plug in their control to PC.

The vast majority don't care if they keep aim assist in PvE. It's aim assist in PvP that poses the problem.

 

[PedroLumpy]

Dunno, someone should ask the Call of Duty devs because they do it every year and no one comes on GAF to complain about it.

They do? Huh well they're both with Activision, I wonder if they did ask.

 

[Wallach]

I can say with relative certainty that Bungie will never adjust Aim Assist values separately between PvE and PvP.

There is no way Bungie would ever allow a different gun feel when swapping between modes. They already have a long history of making universal balance changes due to PvP that also affects PvE.

If they do decide to adjust AA on PC when using a controller input, it'll be 100% across the board.

The PC side of things is just a case where you have to make concessions you wouldn't before on the virtue of having two "standard" input devices. Along the same lines as why your recoil strength is higher when you are using a controller compared to M/KB with the same gun. I could still see them reducing aim assist across the board for controller, but I don't think they're going to take the option of mode-specific magnitude off the table; the points of compromise change when the imperative changes.

 

[Strakt]

Uhh that's horrible if it does. Overwatchs main draw is PvP while Destinys is PvE. Who cares if there is auto aim? It's what makes Destiny feel so good on console and needs to be on PC if console players plug in their control to PC.

AA defines certain guns and why some feel better (more AA) than others when using controller

Because PVP is still relevant in destiny? I prefer the pvp over pve.. but i do both still.

 

[BRocknRolla]

*Misread

 

[Mesoian]

Uhh that's horrible if it does. Overwatchs main draw is PvP while Destinys is PvE. Who cares if there is auto aim? It's what makes Destiny feel so good on console and needs to be on PC if console players plug in their control to PC.

AA defines certain guns and why some feel better (more AA) than others when using controller

Overwatch is 100% PvP though, isn't it?

Destiny has PvE content which is a little more casual. So I wouldn't expect to see such a universal change like that.

I'll say this much, if Activision has any esports ambitions for this game AT ALL...AA will not be in this game when it releases in october. No way.

They will not be the publisher that is okay with their game being "the aimbot game".

This would be such a terribly over reaching reaction if they removed it from the whole game.

I would honestly cancel my preorder if I had to use kbm. I played the first game with a controller, and it's perfectly reasonable that I should get to play it in the same way with a similar feel for the sequel.

They should be able to find a better solution than a complete, blanket removal.

I don't think there's really a GOOD solution unless they completely uncouple PVP from PVE which they will never do.

 

[SirMossyBloke]

The vast majority don't care if they keep aim assist in PvE. It's aim assist in PvP that poses the problem.

I, for one, certainly do care. It spoils my enjoyment of the coop experience. It's controlling it for me and I hate that. I turn aim assist off at all time when I can.

I mean, tons of games have the option, why not this game?

 

[Huge Succeeded]

It's probably too late for Bungie to walk back on this but as someone who loves FPS on KB/M I think it's asinine that they went with a whole different recoil and shot grouping scheme on mouse and keyboard. Never made sense to me at all.

 

[Glass Shark]

.

 

[Mesoian]

I, for one, certainly do care. It spoils my enjoyment of the coop experience. It's controlling it for me and I hate that. I turn aim assist off at all time when I can.

I mean, tons of games have the option, why not this game?

...So turn it off.

Yep, all CoD multiplayer on PC has had aim assist for controllers for I think the last 4 games, maybe more? It's not really as big a deal as people are making it seem. Yes, there will be clips here and there that make it look bad. But I can't imagine how even the best player with a controller could compete with the precision and speed of mouse and keyboard.

Sniper Rifles.

Though, with the way that works in Destiny, it'd still be tough.

 

[martino]

The vast majority don't care if they keep aim assist in PvE. It's aim assist in PvP that poses the problem.

i say let's keep things this way and see how much they care in a long run
if you see what i mean.

 

[Felix Lighter]

Dunno, someone should ask the Call of Duty devs because they do it every year and no one comes on GAF to complain about it.

There are reasons why Call of Duty can't maintain a population on PC anymore.

I, for one, certainly do care. It spoils my enjoyment of the coop experience. It's controlling it for me and I hate that. I turn aim assist off at all time when I can.

I mean, tons of games have the option, why not this game?

I mean left in as an option. I definitely think they should allow you to disable it on controller.