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[Huggy]

Snap aim assist is such a dumb way of handling it. It's also disrespectful to take "control of the wheel" to the players themselves, but that's just me.

Anyone played Just Cause 2 on console? The reticule would float around the center of the field of view, targetting the closest enemy on the chest. If you were dead-on, you could headshot if you lined it up. Snapping, but within a cone as it were.
Escaping the targetting cone of a gamepad player is also much more fair if you ask me.

Now, using auto aim on mice input simulating analogue sticks sounds more like cheating, but I can't imagine those things working just as well as native mouse input.

 

[Huge Succeeded]

Which makes it sound like you get the AA but with the full speed of m/kb. If it's actually limited to controller speed I have no idea what the issue is. That person is just playing with a bit more precise controller and will still be at a disadvantage overall.

Nope. That person is still playing with a much more precise control scheme, one that's totally modular, believe me, I know from experience. In many modern games, controller max sensitivity is hardly a problem. It's still fast enough to enable quick turns with a mouse, alongside the other advantages that mouselook brings.

 

[Stallion Dan]

If they want to actually have competitiveness and tournaments wouldn't it just be better to turn AA off completely?

Based on Destiny 1 they care about neither of those things.

 

[Durante]

Yep, all CoD multiplayer on PC has had aim assist for controllers for I think the last 4 games, maybe more? It's not really as big a deal as people are making it seem. Yes, there will be clips here and there that make it look bad. But I can't imagine how even the best player with a controller could compete with the precision and speed of mouse and keyboard.

Is recent CoD on PC really a good example to emulate though?

I don't play competitive FPS, so I have no first-hand experience, but from all I hear it's comparatively dead.

 

[BRocknRolla]

I'll say this much, if Activision has any esports ambitions for this game AT ALL...AA will not be in this game when it releases in october. No way.

They will not be the publisher that is okay with their game being "the aimbot game".

I don't think there's really a GOOD solution unless they completely uncouple PVP from PVE which they will never do.

It would be an incredibly over reaching move to remove it completely.

I want to be able to play on my high-end PC with the feel of a console controller. They should let me have that option. I'll gladly forgo being competitive in PVP by them removing it there (Though that isn't a good solution), but they would be fundamentally making the game worse everywhere else for controller users by completely removing it.

Would definitely reconsider whether PC is the right option for me.

 

[Jarate]

There are reasons why Call of Duty can't maintain a population on PC anymore.

Im sure this is the reason why no one plays these games on PC

 

[Mesoian]

There are reasons why Call of Duty can't maintain a population on PC anymore.

Eh, the pop is good enough, it's better than most.

The real stuff is that Activision is not interested in starting a call of duty LEAGUE, so regardless if MLG or whoever wants to see who the best in the world is, it's not something they have to curate.

That being said, they haven't shown any real interest in a Destiny PVP league either. But if they ever do, EVER, AA is gone.

It would be an incredibly over reaching move to remove it completely.

I want to be able to play on my high-end PC with the feel of a console controller. They should let me have that option. I'll gladly forgo being competitive in PVP by them removing it there (Though that isn't a good solution), but they would be fundamentally making the game worse everywhere else for controller users by completely removing it.

Would definitely reconsider whether PC is the right option for me.

Real talk, if this is a real ass 100% deal breaker for you, you should most likely just go with the PS4 version. This is just me talking, but I'm pretty sure AA will either be all the way gone, or something that is so different it will be vastly different from what you're used to.

 

[Kudo]

One of the fears I had when the PC version was announced was this.
I hope they don't gimp the controller experience of the game, make it a toggle so people with controller can play without if they so wish.
Maybe make aim assist less strong in PVP as it effects the skill of the player, I'm not sure what would be a good choice there as people are already emulating mouse as controller to get aimbot for unfair advantage, but if it's completely turned off the players who are really playing the game with controller will get the short end of the stick.
Hard situation to be honest.

 

[Tecnniqe]

I see people time and again failing to read the issue with Aim Assist on PC.

It's not about KB/M vs Controller
Or being mad about a Controller user killing you

It's about the fact that you can fool every game to think you use a controller, thus enabling AA when you in fact use a KB/M.
That way you get both the AA and the agility and precision of the KB/M setup.


This alone cause a imbalance between Controllers, the ones who exploit this and those who just user a regular KB/M setup with no AA exploitation.

It's not fun for anyone, it ruins the competitiveness of the game and makes it so either you exploit like the rest or get crushed or put at a heavy disadvantage in it's current state.



The way I see it you have 3 ways to "fix" this:

Axe it completely.

Allow AA only in PvE.

Leave it as it is.

Spoiler

bonus 4th is allowing it for unranked and removing it from competitive matches

Tuning down AA wont do anything either, the small advantage gain is still a gain too much.

 

[Glass Shark]

.

 

[Strakt]

I see people time and again failing to read the issue with Aim Assist on PC.

It's not about KB/M vs Controller
Or being mad about a Controller user killing you

It's about the fact that you can fool every game to think you use a controller, thus enabling AA when you in fact use a KB/M.
That way you get both the AA and the agility and precision of the KB/M setup.


This alone cause a imbalance between Controllers, the ones who exploit this and those who just user a regular KB/M setup with no AA exploitation.

It's not fun for anyone, it ruins the competitiveness of the game and makes it so either you exploit like the rest or get crushed or put at a heavy disadvantage in it's current state.



The way I see it you have 3 ways to "fix" this:

Axe it completely.

Allow AA only in PvE.

Leave it as it is.

Spoiler

bonus 4th is allowing it for unranked and removing it from competitive matches

Tuning down AA wont do anything either, the small advantage gain is still a gain too much.

I was waitin for your post. This 100%

 

[mnannola]

Is there some way to reliably detect if they are using a mouse vs controller? Something like turn speed? If so maybe there is a way to disable aim assist if your aiming / turning behavior fits a certain profile.

 

[Kudo]

Having "PC Matchmaking" modes would solve the issue, no AA whether or not you use controller or not.

Spoiler

I'm having flashbacks to the threads where people said XIM is not cheating on console, heh.

 

[BRocknRolla]

The way I see it you have 3 ways to "fix" this:

Axe it completely.

Allow AA only in PvE.

Leave it as it is.

So ultimately the answer is, give in to those who exploit?

I won't pretend to know all the technical aspects that go into checking people using an exploit of one sort or another, but that's a pretty shitty place to end up, is it not?

I'd like Bungie to either a) find a better, more creative solution to detecting exploits of this sort, or b) try to effect as small an aspect of the game as possible. I want something better than the path of least resistance, but I'll accept as narrow a solution as possible too.

 

[Trace]

Is there some way to reliably detect if they are using a mouse vs controller? Something like turn speed? If so maybe there is a way to disable aim assist if your aiming / turning behavior fits a certain profile.

It's not possible without getting into driver level rootkits and shit like that. The system reports controller or keyboard, unless you modify the system itself to detect that it's impossible assuming the spoofing software is advanced enough.

And "you can't play a certain way" is such a roundabout solution when the easy fix is remove AA from PvP.

 

[PedroLumpy]

Yep, all CoD multiplayer on PC has had aim assist for controllers for I think the last 4 games, maybe more? It's not really as big a deal as people are making it seem. Yes, there will be clips here and there that make it look bad. But I can't imagine how even the best player with a controller could compete with the precision and speed of mouse and keyboard.

Well having never seen it obviously, I guess it's just a matter of how much AA you stuff in. I would be super curious to hear their reasoning on the amount of AA to add. I have no idea how you would figure it out.

 

[Kudo]

It's not possible without getting into driver level rootkits and shit like that. The system reports controller or keyboard, unless you modify the system itself to detect that it's impossible assuming the spoofing software is advanced enough.

And "you can't play a certain way" is such a roundabout solution when the easy fix is remove AA from PvP.

Easy and lazy fix, would make the PVP unplayable for most people on controller.
I wouldn't call it a fix at all, just getting rid of the issue. There needs to be a mode for people with controller too, thus the "PC" PVP Playlist with no AA would be great solution for people who don't want to risk people doing soft-cheating.

 

[jem0208]

The aiming mechanics in Destiny 2 are ridiculously easy?

Shocker.


Considering how easy shooting was in the first game I wouldn't be surprised if this remains.

 

[Durante]

I see people time and again failing to read the issue with Aim Assist on PC.

It's not about KB/M vs Controller
Or being mad about a Controller user killing you

It's about the fact that you can fool every game to think you use a controller, thus enabling AA when you in fact use a KB/M.
That way you get both the AA and the agility and precision of the KB/M setup.


This alone cause a imbalance between Controllers, the ones who exploit this and those who just user a regular KB/M setup with no AA exploitation.

It's not fun for anyone, it ruins the competitiveness of the game and makes it so either you exploit like the rest or get crushed or put at a heavy disadvantage in it's current state.



The way I see it you have 3 ways to "fix" this:

Axe it completely.

Allow AA only in PvE.

Leave it as it is.

Spoiler

bonus 4th is allowing it for unranked and removing it from competitive matches

Tuning down AA wont do anything either, the small advantage gain is still a gain too much.

You've clearly given this some thought. Why don't you consider the option of splitting competitive servers between input methods?
For moderately popular games I feel like it shouldn't be a population issue.

 

[KingV]

Is there some way to reliably detect if they are using a mouse vs controller? Something like turn speed? If so maybe there is a way to disable aim assist if your aiming / turning behavior fits a certain profile.

Maybe turn it off once your sensitivity reache a certain point.

Edit: also destiny pvz sucks anyway. PvE is where 90% of the fun in the game is. I expect this to remain the same no matter how many tweaks bungee makes.

 

[Sora the Cat]

The two best solutions that have been mentioned so far (imo):

Remove it from PvP.
Lower the accuracy of AA.

I would be fine with either of those options. Something needs to be done for sure. Controller AA is just too damn high right now and can ruin the experience for mouse players.

 

[Trace]

Easy and lazy fix, would make the PVP unplayable for most people on controller.
I wouldn't call it a fix at all, just getting rid of the issue. There needs to be a mode for people with controller too, thus the "PC" PVP Playlist with no AA would be great solution for people who don't want to risk people doing soft-cheating.

I would have 0 issue with them doing this but I don't see Bungie doing that.

 

[SRTtoZ]

Have no issue with the aim assist using a controller but they should fix the bug that allows you to get aim assist + use a kb/m. Should be considered an exploit imo.

 

[Tecnniqe]

You've clearly given this some thought. Why don't you consider the option of splitting competitive servers between input methods?
For moderately popular games I feel like it shouldn't be a population issue.

While the game allow for input swap on the fly adding auto aim only or no auto aim at all servers would be fine, but players who exploit can still join the controller servers with the KB/M and wreck havoc and I don't see that being very fun. I don't see any immediate solutions to PVP other than removing it if you want to keep a "fair" base entry.


And as some mention they could lower the AA too, but it would still make this an issue, less than currently but still and advantage.

 

[NullPointer]

Really Bungie should just flat out remove aim assist. Overwatch did it, there's no reason Bungie couldn't do it as well. Level the playing field, the system shouldn't be aimbotting for one control scheme over another.

I thought the aim assist was actually a property of the weapons themselves.

There were perks in Destiny 1 weapons to improve "target acquisition". Now maybe this is just the speed at which you ADS, but I always figured that it was a measure of aim assist. *if* that's the case I'd expect that to carry over to PC as well.

If you're looking for finely balanced e-sports-ready PvP, Destiny doesn't seem like its ever been designed for that.

 

[Tecnniqe]

Have no issue with the aim assist using a controller but they should fix the bug that allows you to get aim assist + use a kb/m. Should be considered an exploit imo.

It's not a bug and you probably can't fix it at all, as said below

It's not possible without getting into driver level rootkits and shit like that. The system reports controller or keyboard, unless you modify the system itself to detect that it's impossible assuming the spoofing software is advanced enough.

And "you can't play a certain way" is such a roundabout solution when the easy fix is remove AA from PvP.

 

[Cytezan]

Or splitting the controller users and mouse users into different matches? Probably the best method, no?

 

[molnizzle]

lol, I love how now its M/KB users complaining about controllers.

As someone who plays most PC games with a controller I hate when shooters don't have aim assist. It bugs me that I can't play Overwatch on PC, but at least I have a 60fps console version.

With Destiny 2 there's no such luck. If I want 60fps I gotta play on PC. I should be able to play with standard controller aim assist in that case.

Honestly if leaving time assist in the game drives away M/KB users I'm cool with that. Y'all have plenty of games that cater to you.

 

[Strakt]

lol, I love how now its M/KB users complaining about controllers.

As someone who plays most PC games with a controller I hate when shooters don't have aim assist. It bugs me that I can't play Overwatch on PC, but at least I have a 60fps console version.

With Destiny 2 there's no such luck. If I want 60fps I gotta play on PC. I should be able to play with standard controller aim assist in that case.

Honestly if leaving time assist in the game drives away M/KB users I'm cool with that. Y'all have plenty of games that cater to you.

Clearly you have good reading comprehension skills!

 

[Cytezan]

lol, I love how now its M/KB users complaining about controllers.

As someone who plays most PC games with a controller I hate when shooters don't have aim assist. It bugs me that I can't play Overwatch on PC, but at least I have a 60fps console version.

With Destiny 2 there's no such luck. If I want 60fps I gotta play on PC. I should be able to play with standard controller aim assist in that case.

Honestly if leaving time assist in the game drives away M/KB users I'm cool with that. Y'all have plenty of games that cater to you.

We just want to minimise exploits, I don't give a hoot if you use a controller. I just don't want KBM to also have aim assist...

 

[The Real Napsta]

Really Bungie should just flat out remove aim assist. Overwatch did it, there's no reason Bungie couldn't do it as well. Level the playing field, the system shouldn't be aimbotting for one control scheme over another.

That screws over controller users.

 

[Durante]

While the game allow for input swap on the fly adding auto aim only or no auto aim at all servers would be fine, but players who exploit can still join the controller servers with the KB/M and wreck havoc and I don't see that being very fun.

Ah, that's a good point.

I also don't see a way to prevent that, if you have a device which reports at the driver level as a controller.
(I mean, they can't even prevent it on consoles!)

 

[molnizzle]

I thought the aim assist was actually a property of the weapons themselves.

There were perks in Destiny 1 weapons to improve "target acquisition". Now maybe this is just the speed at which you ADS, but I always figured that it was a measure of aim assist.

Target acquisition affected aim assist, as did the general "range" rating of a weapon.

Aim assist is a damn stat in Destiny, that's just how the gunplay works.

 

[Genryu]

lol, I love how now its M/KB users complaining about controllers.

As someone who plays most PC games with a controller I hate when shooters don't have aim assist. It bugs me that I can't play Overwatch on PC, but at least I have a 60fps console version.

With Destiny 2 there's no such luck. If I want 60fps I gotta play on PC. I should be able to play with standard controller aim assist in that case.

Honestly if leaving time assist in the game drives away M/KB users I'm cool with that. Y'all have plenty of games that cater to you.

So you're fine with M/KB users having aim assist as well? Because that's what this thread is about.

 

[SirMossyBloke]

...So turn it off.



.

Is this a joke post or have you read nothing in this thread?

 

[martino]

i say let it like that and analyse numbers.
number of k/m users
number of controler users
number of k/m users annoyed

and choose.

 

[Tecnniqe]

Target acquisition affected aim assist, as did the general "range" rating of a weapon.

Aim assist is a damn stat in Destiny, that's just how the gunplay works.

They don't work the same way and PC weapons are tailored for PC. AA shouldn't be a factor that affect the guns.

 

[Woo-Fu]

lol, I love how now its M/KB users complaining about controllers.

You should read it again, maybe this time you'll realize that they're not complaining about controllers.

They're complaining about auto-aim, and on top of that the ability to get auto-aim in D2 PvP while using m&k.

If it stays as is you'll have two types playing D2 PvP a month after release: Controller players and k+m players who use software to fool the game into giving them auto-aim too.

Does that really sound like a good situation?

On the other hand we're talking about peer to peer with what, 10Hz tickrate? Not like D2 PvP has a chance in hell of catching on with PC players regardless of what they do with auto-aim.

 

[molnizzle]

They don't work the same way and PC weapons are tailored for PC. AA shouldn't be a factor that affect the guns.

I imagine they work the same way if you're using a controller. Bungie said they wanted PC controller gameplay to feel as close to consoles as possible.

"PC weapons" don't assume that the player is using a mouse.

You should read it again, maybe this time you'll realize that they're not complaining about controllers.

They're complaining about auto-aim, and on top of that the ability to get auto-aim in D2 PvP while using m&k.

If it stays as is you'll have two types playing D2 PvP a month after release: Controller players and k+m players who use software to fool the game into giving them auto-aim too.

Does that really sound like a good situation?

No, but it's better than the alternative which is no aim assist whatsoever. That would make PvP unplayable against M/KB users.

Better to allow it for controllers and try to punish those caught spoofing it with mice.

 

[renzolama]

The number of people showing up in these threads to announce their superiority as PC gamers who disdain aim assist and mock Destiny's ADS mechanics is silly. It's a stat-based aspect of the game mechanics, and weapon archetypes/variants/mods in Destiny have traditionally had tradeoffs where aim assist is much weaker but range/damage output/etc is higher or vice versa. This is clearly a potential issue on PC where controller vs m+kb are co-existing in competitive environments, but this second layer argument about how dumb and easy Destiny is because of its ADS/AA is polluting the more valuable discussion with elitist nonsense.

 

[Tecnniqe]

I imagine they work the same way if you're using a controller. Bungie said they wanted PC controller gameplay to feel as close to consoles as possible.

"PC weapons" don't assume that the player is using a mouse.



No, but it's better than the alternative which is no aim assist whatsoever. That would make PvP unplayable against M/KB users.

Better to allow it for controllers and try to punish those caught spoofing it with mice.

They've specifically mentioned guns have been edited for PC. AA don't exist and it's the platforms native input. Plis staph

 

[martino]

They've specifically mentioned guns have been edited for PC. AA don't exist and it's the platforms native input. Plis staph

and it's still on console ?

 

[Tecnniqe]

and it's still on console ?

😫

 

[Oublieux]

Honestly, this is absolutely a hard situation to tackle because of the open nature of PC's.

I personally think the aim assist is a tad too strong, even with controllers, but putting that aside, I do want players to use the input method of their choice.

The issue is that an input device is reported as a controller or keyboard/mouse at the system level--it's going to be tough, if not impossible, to prevent players exploiting aim assist while using keyboard/mouse.

Any "solution" that's going to be implemented is going to ruffle feathers for one group. There's just no perfect answer to this.

 

[Lanrutcon]

It's all good.

When the controller spoofing gimmick hits mainstream and the m&kb players are absolutely obliterating anyone with a controller/turning PVP into an instagib arena: then we'll have a way more one-sided thread about the auto-aim.

 

[SeppOCE]

I used a controller and it felt like the same Destiny to me... kb/m would still be better but you can hang which is nice. Seems like the issue is kb/m players finding a way to use AA which amounts to basically cheating the system.

As long as AA isn't tweaked in the game it won't change either.

 

[Kudo]

Honestly, this is absolutely a hard situation to tackle because of the open nature of PC's.

I personally think the aim assist is a tad too strong, even with controllers, but putting that aside, I do want players to use the input method of their choice.

The issue is that an input device is reported as a controller or keyboard/mouse at the system level--it's going to be tough, if not impossible, to prevent players exploiting aim assist while using keyboard/mouse.

Any "solution" that's going to be implemented is going to ruffle feathers for one group. There's just no perfect answer to this.

Yeah, thinking about this too, can't really find any good solution for this that won't leave other input with shorter stick.
Hopefully someone smart at Bungie can.

 

[Sora the Cat]

The number of people showing up in these threads to announce their superiority as PC gamers who disdain aim assist and mock Destiny's ADS mechanics is silly. It's a stat-based aspect of the game mechanics, and weapon archetypes in Destiny have tradeoffs where aim assist is much weaker but damage output is higher etc. This is clearly a potential issue on PC where controller vs m+kb are co-existing in competitive environments, but this second layer argument about how dumb and easy Destiny is because of the ADS/AA is polluting the more valuable discussion with elitist nonsense.

Oh come on, no one is saying that or feeling superior in any way, we just don't want the game to get fucked by a silly exploit, but whatever.

 

[molnizzle]

They've specifically mentioned guns have been edited for PC. AA don't exist and it's the platforms native input. Plis staph

Are you really suggesting that Bungie - who was notorious for barely being able to stay on top of weapon balance passes in Destiny 1 - is going to create more work for themselves and design two entirely different weapon sandboxes?

Nah. They'll leave everything the same and just disable the aim assist if you're using M/KB. Because of course they will.

 

[Strakt]

Are you really suggesting that Bungie - who was notorious for barely being able to stay on top of weapon balance passes in Destiny 1 - is going to create more work for themselves and design two entirely different weapon sandboxes?

Nah. They'll leave everything the same and just disable the aim assist if you're using M/KB. Because of course they are.

Bro do you even research anything before you post?