Lol me too.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Destiny 2 PC Beta Thread - Codes are redeemable, preload starts Friday 25th, 10AM PDT
- Thread starter Tovarisc
- Start date
Microsoft has a product for them
jk
I don't think aim assist is the issue, its the way its handled. It seems aim assist targets the head as a priority instead of the torso. Locking to the torso isn't as bad as locking to the head. They still have to work for the precision shots just like any keyboard player but allowing good enough lock on to make consistent body shots.
It would easily balance it out more.
But from what little i played with my controller last night.....I was in precision heaven on a controller and any keyboard player trying to strafe was absolutely worthless because it soft track the head.....so they should make getting hit causes your aim to actually bounce like a hit recoil even when not zoomed in
I feel like... the default keyboard setup isn't that great when executing a ton of things. Having a multi-key mouse feels way better than slamming X behind WASD as a warlock to dodge mid air while trying to initiate glide at the same time suddenly. It just sorta feels strange.
dmix90
Member
Why would i do that? Game is not designed to be played that way with gamepad.
M/KB has it's own benefits, controller users have their tweaks and assists. So we are even in the end.... unless you cheat. Like i said multiple times there should be ways to block cheating software or let us all play in our own pools.
Hmmn, didn't see it in the menu, will have to dig deeper tonight I guess.
It's a 3770k. So only 5 generations old.
Probably should get serious about getting an overclock on it until I build a new system next year
The notion that this is only the tip of the iceberg is what everyone thought 3 years ago. Could be different. Might not be. I'm just saying ahead of time slow it down.
That's an optimistic thought, the problem is there's a lot of legitimate controller software that people would use to use controllers outside of the standard Xbox Controller, and that's assuming that cheaters wouldn't have other ways to bypass such detection. That being said, pools won't solve that problem.
The_blonde_and_blue
Member
Agreed. I have accidentally blew my super so many f'in times...
Like it's not a horrible setup, it just seems oddly placed around the WASD that never feels quite natural without the aid of a mouse key assisting it.
impliedsignificance
Neo Member
I've played with kb/m and controller for this beta. I prefer controller in most games and in this beta. I feel like the aim assist should be turned down (both the amount of "pull" and the size of the assist window) and snap to torso instead of head. I prefer using a controller but sometimes have to fight against the aim assist.
Regarding the issue of aim assist as a M+KB player: I personally don't mind but I see why it can be an issue.
At the top-end, raw M+KB will still be better. Aim assisted pads do allow for more leniency with regards to unpredictable targets (strafing patterns and juking micro mind-games become almost useless, etc) but you will go further in the long run with true aim.
It's everything below that level that becomes murky. It's a lot easier/trivial to start shooting heads on a controller as-is in the D2 beta than intermediate and below mouse users regardless of your skill and experience on a controller.
I view it like this: Bungie is not actively positioning Destiny 2 towards e-sports. P2P servers and emphasis on co-op is indicative of this. As a result, assuming matchmaking works well enough to place you in games where you can have fun regardless of the input method you or the players at your level are using, I think the current situation is sufficient. If you suck bad enough at M+KB that you get destroyed by sticky aim controllers in 1v1 duels then you should go to a lower bracket where you will find a better match-up. I think Destiny 2 PC, out of all other games, can be allowed to be that ultimate casual hub where console players and PC players alike can congregate with no sacrifice to their respective input choices. This shouldn't be the norm for PC games in general by any means, however.
Yes, there's an argument to be had that since it's a PC game, the integrity of the default PC input method and its users as a whole should be prioritized above all else. For me, it simply comes down to whether or not I think Destiny 2 can be treated as a "serious" competitive game. Since I don't think it can (as it is currently designed by Bungie), I'd much rather people be able to use what they're comfortable with. And make no mistake, M+KB is still superior if you want to be the absolute best, salt from the odd loss in a duel aside.
However, there are caveats to this. I'd rather Bungie nuke aim assist altogether if they can't prevent exploits involving M+KB w/ aim assist because that basically ruins everyone else's fun. Additionally, the level of aim assist may or may not need tuning. Theoretically, there is an acceptable limit to how much you should be allowed to have before it becomes stupid. Whether or not the current implementation is over that limit is up for debate. You cannot argue against the fact that there can be too much. Example: aim-bots are basically aim assist dialed to 100%. 90% of that doesn't automatically make it sensible. Locking to the head instead of the torso is another factor up for consideration.
At the top-end, raw M+KB will still be better. Aim assisted pads do allow for more leniency with regards to unpredictable targets (strafing patterns and juking micro mind-games become almost useless, etc) but you will go further in the long run with true aim.
It's everything below that level that becomes murky. It's a lot easier/trivial to start shooting heads on a controller as-is in the D2 beta than intermediate and below mouse users regardless of your skill and experience on a controller.
I view it like this: Bungie is not actively positioning Destiny 2 towards e-sports. P2P servers and emphasis on co-op is indicative of this. As a result, assuming matchmaking works well enough to place you in games where you can have fun regardless of the input method you or the players at your level are using, I think the current situation is sufficient. If you suck bad enough at M+KB that you get destroyed by sticky aim controllers in 1v1 duels then you should go to a lower bracket where you will find a better match-up. I think Destiny 2 PC, out of all other games, can be allowed to be that ultimate casual hub where console players and PC players alike can congregate with no sacrifice to their respective input choices. This shouldn't be the norm for PC games in general by any means, however.
Yes, there's an argument to be had that since it's a PC game, the integrity of the default PC input method and its users as a whole should be prioritized above all else. For me, it simply comes down to whether or not I think Destiny 2 can be treated as a "serious" competitive game. Since I don't think it can (as it is currently designed by Bungie), I'd much rather people be able to use what they're comfortable with. And make no mistake, M+KB is still superior if you want to be the absolute best, salt from the odd loss in a duel aside.
However, there are caveats to this. I'd rather Bungie nuke aim assist altogether if they can't prevent exploits involving M+KB w/ aim assist because that basically ruins everyone else's fun. Additionally, the level of aim assist may or may not need tuning. Theoretically, there is an acceptable limit to how much you should be allowed to have before it becomes stupid. Whether or not the current implementation is over that limit is up for debate. You cannot argue against the fact that there can be too much. Example: aim-bots are basically aim assist dialed to 100%. 90% of that doesn't automatically make it sensible. Locking to the head instead of the torso is another factor up for consideration.
One Eyed Willy
Member
I never played D1, playing D2 on PC and shit is butter smooth on Ultra and the gunplay is fun as hell. I think I'm sold.
edit. KB&M of course
edit. KB&M of course
Well yea
https://clips.twitch.tv/HedonisticPlainBeeDancingBaby
Slow the clip down
They need to lower the aim assist on controllers; it snaps to the head when he clearly wasnt anywhere near it.
It's not controllers, it's aim assist. And it's not unfounded. A game basically playing itself for you partially (snapping your aim to heads with no regard for your actual skill level) is bound to produce salt when the main input method of the platform doesn't have the same benefit.
I mean info on the game has been leaking slowly on reddit over the past couple of days (about the substantial amount of content) as well as the previews from last week that people keep seemingly ignoring. Lets add to the fact that this beta includes two pvp modes, 1 story mission, and 1 strike while the d1 beta contained far more content and was 75% of the game.
jim2point0
Banned
Is there a way to play these strike missions solo? It says 1-3 players but im always in a group of 3. It's a pretty environment and sometimes I just want to take my time and look around, but I feel pressured to move forward when I'm in a group.
Connected straight in my PC with a USB cable. It works fine in other games but I can't get ti to work in this one.
Edit: Got it working I needed DS4Windows, guess every other game I played on my PC before with my DS4 were handled natively.
impliedsignificance
Neo Member
I don't think there is. That might be a limitation of the beta. I've wondered also because I feel the same way. I want to explore and play slow in firefights rather than sprinting and killing everything as fast as possible. Is there a group for playing like this?
Nothing about it feels like this is a new game to me. It's fun, but it's the same goddamn game.
In D1 if you changed your systems time settings it wouldnt allow you to matchmake thus forcing many coop activities into a solo affair. You could try that but I dont think itll work. If that doesnt work you two should just link up and explore together. Thats what the game is aboutcommunity.
Welcome to most sequels.
Did you expect them to change the mechanics of the game when it was already a huge success? Its the same concept, but with a new story, maps, gear, strikes, raids. Why change something that isn't broken?
Slowdown? Do you really need to?
That snap is obvious and very aggressive.
But hey, for reasons (that I'm yet to see) this is fine and doesn't give aiming advantage to padders.
Ivory Samoan
Gold Member
It's quite the scene for sure.
I feel you man: the argument that aim assist is required to make the gameplay feel like Destiny/be fun with a controller, just like in the original game, seems to be going over everyone's heads.
Destiny 1 had heavy aim assist and it felt amazing, Bungie want Destiny 2 to feel amazing too: it makes sense.
Controller with AA is still <<< KB+M in terms of precision/headshots/recoil control with most of the weapons, it seems to be people who didn't play the original getting upset here (any Destiny 1 players here upset?, I'm super curious).
By this logic, the console version then play themselves to some degree...I think the original Destiny legions would disagree with you here. The goal is to make the controller feel exactly like playing on console (but on PC): that's what Mark Noseworthy has stated many times.
dmix90
Member
So mouse alone is not a huge advantage in FPS game anymore? Please...
I am worried. Hopefully they will stick to their promise.
Exalted Kezia
Member
The keybinds feel pretty awful, in particular I keep clicking F to melee.
The difference is that its now available on PC. Everyone on consoles use controllers so its fine. No one wants to play competitively when m/kb takes actual aiming yet some guy using a handcannon on controller can miss every shot and snap to your head with aim assist. (Look at the clip I posted a cpl posts above and you'll see what I'm talking about)
Not to mention there are people who are able to get aim assist on m/kb as well.
I feel like the controller aim assist will become a new excuse as to why someone lost, lol. Me and a friend have won >60 matches of PVP and lost <5. I just started using KB/M last month when I switched from PS4 OW to PC. The KB/M is just flat out better, not buying that it's a problem. Let people enjoy the game how they want...
Just because you won games doesn't mean the problem doesn't exist. The aim assist on controllers is most noticeable on the hand cannons atm.
Blood Boal
Member
Having played over the past 2 years destiny on a ps4, I'm playing the pc beta with a controller and loving every second of it.
PS: I got a Suros Hand-canon (Minuet-42) for the secondary slot on the crysol and I think I'm in love.
PS: I got a Suros Hand-canon (Minuet-42) for the secondary slot on the crysol and I think I'm in love.
I was super down on Destiny 2 after the reveal stream and the PS4 beta (to be fair I only played the opening mission).
I downloaded the of beta since I got a free key and wow.
Destiny 2 on PC really feels good.
My concern is the delayed release.
Going by Destiny 1 I would assume they will have a raid near launch and considering their stance on PTRs and keeping secrets it'll be lame if the raid is all over YouTube when the PC release roles around.
But I guess that's a minor gripe if all the DLC releases are simultaneous from there on out.
I downloaded the of beta since I got a free key and wow.
Destiny 2 on PC really feels good.
My concern is the delayed release.
Going by Destiny 1 I would assume they will have a raid near launch and considering their stance on PTRs and keeping secrets it'll be lame if the raid is all over YouTube when the PC release roles around.
But I guess that's a minor gripe if all the DLC releases are simultaneous from there on out.
Gudji
Member
Warlock thing.
Ivory Samoan
Gold Member
Hasn't some KB+M players been getting this with the Hand Cannons though? think it was Blessious who was playing KB+M and getting the aim assist or lag Hand Cannon auto hit too... could be a HC prob, not an AA prob perhaps?
jim2point0
Banned
Yeah... I just had the impression that the game would be a more open-ended affair. Most likely because I never really played the first game. But because if the random gun loot stuff, I thought it'd be more like Borderlands. Is every mission in Destiny instanced like that? Do you just pick a mission and then load up that instance? Is the single player campaign going to be a series of levels\missions as well? Or is there some freedom to explore and do side-stuff?
Nice, people having a legitimate argument about a game ruining aspect of the game gets discarded as "salt".
I'm not disagreeing, but to call it Destiny 2 is a bit of a stretch.
rakkadakka
Member
Its really overblown and I'm hoping Bungie just keeps it as is.
Its better to call it Destiny 2 as its now on PC. Rather than releasing all previous expansions + base Destiny 1 + all the new content destiny 2 offers.. its better to just release a brand new game as its opening its doors to an entire player base who have never played destiny before.
Ivory Samoan
Gold Member
Game ruining?
It feels exactly the same as the console version: how is that ruining the game?
Exactly. It's an expansion pack in all but name.
It feels exactly like Destiny 1. I hope they leave it alone...in case I actually buy the game! I enjoy playing with a controller from a comfy couch myself. I'm even doing pretty well in Crucible with it lol.
strikes, stories, pvp, raids, and nightfalls are instanced. Patrol is the open-world design of destiny where you can run around the game world looking for various secrets, treasures, and missions specific to the patrol design structure.
They do. You aren't 100% responsible for your hits and misses with aim assist unlike on raw input. I don't see how that's a controversial statement. Aim assist normalizes and corrects your result as long as you're within a certain margin of error.
I already said I personally don't mind it as a decent KB+M player and since D2 isn't really a "top-shelf competitive game", but the salt is justified by the vast majority of players that will be playing the game (average-level KBM users, not pros or controller users which will be the minority). These users will definitely feel marginalized.
One huge issue with this is that there is NO way to detect a difference between legit controller users or emulated controllers with KBM just like XIM in consoles. It's also very easy to set this up with software unlike XIM which has a cost barrier. Basically, you have to accept that these players are going to be playing the game with no opposition. In light of this, there is a very good argument to nuke aim assist in competitive PVP modes. There's also a lot of middle ground and compromises that can be made. Aim assist can be reduced, or can snap to torsos instead of heads, or it can be disabled in competitive PVP (still allowed in quick-play, etc.).