Sword Of Doom
Member
It's more like a free to play game with microtransactions taken out of it
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Destiny |OT11| It goes up to 11!
- Thread starter Hawkian
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It's more like a free to play game with microtransactions taken out of it
Jest Chillin
Member
Forcing players to grind to reach the height of their strength again is the entire design purpose for vertical progression. It sounds like you'd probably prefer a horizontal progression system.
Players leveling alts tend to have systems worked out as to how to most effectively level. They're not playing to experience the early game anew, they're trying to get to max as fast as they can. These players typically have little patience for new ones. This is also why the game matchmakes players of similar level even when you're play low level Strikes.
I'm not missing the point at all. The appeal of Exotics over Legendaries is the mods, not the Attack Level. If you don't lose the mods when upgrading, then there's little point in using new gear.
Why would anyone replace an Exotic with a new Legendary or new Exotic when they first start playing the new content if the stuff they already have has all of it's mods without have to level them?
Twilight Gap
Member
i'd be a lot less bothered if it was free to play.
Three more. We know you're out there.
LollipoPReapeR
Member
I'm giving up for the night. We ain't gonna win and it's far too late now
Buddy of mine is going to join, he's a level 29 hunter
1. GibbShift
2. Raadius
3. DaveS78
4. Vintagesole
5.
6.
LollipoPReapeR
Member
Heh... If only.
II would be House of Wolves.
Yes, I thought of that - but the way it's written makes it seem like it can be the first video. With their focus on story telling, we might get an ending cinematic. I wouldn't rule it out.
Jest Chillin
Member
Didn't say it was an MMO. The moment they increased the level cap for the new content it definitely revealed itself to be a vertical progression game though.
Please dude. Take a moment here and try to understand:
Re-levelling the same items from the ground up is not vertical progression. It is repetition.
Making us earn the new damage upgrades is vertical progression.
They don't need to reset our items in order to make us earn the vertical increase.
We're at a lower point already. Why force us back down to where we started just to climb a little higher than we were?
You really are.
ArkkAngel007
Member
Heck, I'll jump in. Always a pleasure to run with you guys.
Edit: Nvm, Rayuma makes 6 with GhostFaceDon.
If there was ever a week where they would willingly sell gallahorn it is this week. Quench the fires pretty quickly.
They need to increase the caps on everything though. Multiply all the current caps (vault space, marks, glimmer) by 2. In the case of glimmer take that shit to 100k.
I would definitely get over it.
They need to increase the caps on everything though. Multiply all the current caps (vault space, marks, glimmer) by 2. In the case of glimmer take that shit to 100k.
You know... I honestly think it's the radar that kills Crucible. It's so stupid that no matter where you are as soon as you close in they see you on your radar... I guess this can stop campers, but it just makes multiplayer so annoying since you can never sneak up to players.
Jest Chillin
Member
You don't have to level the same items though. It's an option that you have if you want to keep using the Exotics you already have. Otherwise, you could choose to try to acquire the new Legendary's and Exotics and level those to reach the new max potential.
Most vertical progression games don't even give you such an option. This is an attempt by Bungie to create a middle ground. Obviously not everyone likes it but this isn't Bungie just screwing people over.
Twilight Gap
Member
why did i "replace" my maxed hand cannon when the raid hand cannon dropped? why did i "replace" pocket infinity when plan c dropped? why did i "replace" my legendary machine gun when the one from iron banner dropped?
because it's new and i want to use it.
i'd imagine most players don't mind leveling up new items that drop for them, especially if they're better than the ones they currently have. after a certain point, i wasn't "replacing" my weapons anyway; i swapped out what i wanted to use and level up at any given moment, only deleting when my vault ran out of space.
people aren't going to ignore new exotics because they already have maxed exotics, so I couldn't disagree more with it being a "fair trade". resetting the progress of a weapon somebody wants to keep useful and then tying that progress further to RNG after they've already put it in the time to level it up in order to make it "equal" to new content is bottom of the barrel problem solving. it's a "soft reset" designed to stall progress at the beginning of the expansion by throwing players who might be ahead of everyone else back into the RNG pot.
ArkkAngel007
Member
It feels like a slap in the face knowing that I have to level all of this AGAIN to make it relevant.
Not to mention nary the room for whatever Exotics/Raid/Special things that accumulate along the way.
Edit: Thanks for the alt space, GibbShift crew.
Certainly. GG
So I've stayed thinking about this and I really think they should have a very slight change to their plan:
I take my 300/300 Ice Breaker to Xûr. I ask that shady asshole to let me upgrade it. I pay whatever it is they'll charge for it. Go back to my weapons screen and inspect my Ice Breaker. It's now at 302 attack - (yay, upgrade!) but with a ton of empty nodes. However, the actual Exotic perks (not the attack nodes) are still green. I basically "cleared" the attack upgrade bubbles and get to fill them again from a higher starting point.
There, crisis averted. We still need to pay Xûr for the right to upgrade. We still need to grind to hell and back to keep that shit current. We don't, however, lose progress which is the key here. I don't give a damn about bubbles clearing up or whatever. Attack value begins higher than what I left it at, just let me keep my Exotic perks and we're good. I won't be gimping my weapon by buying the chance to grind more for it, it's all we ask
I take my 300/300 Ice Breaker to Xûr. I ask that shady asshole to let me upgrade it. I pay whatever it is they'll charge for it. Go back to my weapons screen and inspect my Ice Breaker. It's now at 302 attack - (yay, upgrade!) but with a ton of empty nodes. However, the actual Exotic perks (not the attack nodes) are still green. I basically "cleared" the attack upgrade bubbles and get to fill them again from a higher starting point.
There, crisis averted. We still need to pay Xûr for the right to upgrade. We still need to grind to hell and back to keep that shit current. We don't, however, lose progress which is the key here. I don't give a damn about bubbles clearing up or whatever. Attack value begins higher than what I left it at, just let me keep my Exotic perks and we're good. I won't be gimping my weapon by buying the chance to grind more for it, it's all we ask
Twilight Gap
Member
if you want to damage anything in the expansion, you have to either regrind items you already grinded or pray to RNGesus for him to drop new items for you to grind again.
Clearly Bungie is doing us a favor.
Dat stability. But Bungie could've easily had an in-game player search function.
EDIT: Gonna try to do it through Playstation.com.
This is only a brief respite from a permanent "problem"; current proposal does not fix this opportunity cost proposition at all. It just guarantees that every single exotic I own and find after I level my first exotic is under this scrutiny - exactly like it was after the very first exotic I ever owned was leveled pre-expansion. Just like then, too, it will always come down to whether a new acquisition has greater final potential than the weapon I am currently invested into - the same opportunity cost question that would exist if you had not reset their previous perks in the first place.
The current proposition solves nothing meaningful but does significant damage to player investment in the process.
Jest Chillin
Member
So you replaced your maxed weapons with new weapons when you played progression content and intentionally took a loss to your effectiveness? Or did you swap out your maxed weapons with the new weapons when you were playing PvP (where level isn't a factor) or old content you had already progressed past(missions, patrols, strikes, etc..)?
And you don't understand that they have to do it simply because there will not be enough new exotics in the DLC. You only get 6 new exotic weapons (5 if you are on Xbox) in contrast to the 22 or so in the game now. They have to provide upgrade paths for the most exclusive items in the game and they sure as hell could find a better way to do it.
But if we want to use the items we enjoy we are forced to do this:
DLC maxed exotic with higher dmg is here - top
.
.
.
.
Vanilla maxed exotic is here - middle
.
.
.
.
Brand new unlevelled Exotic is here - bottom
If anyone who has already maxed their favourite exotics wants to use them at max potential they have to now go:
Bottom
Middle
Bottom
Middle
Top
While those who haven't put as much effort in get to go
Bottom
Middle
Top
It's not ok because we got to enjoy it for x amount of time, because we earnt that enjoyment by going through the arduous levelling process already.
We're not earning any unique new experience by forcing ourselves through the levelling process again. We're simply earning a little more damage that will let us use our favourite gear in higher level content, but for the privilege of that we're forced to go through what we've already been through. And levelling gear is very, very dull. This isn't vertical, this is sadistic.
I don't know how much clearer this can be written.
Some please help me here!
ArkkAngel007
Member
I tried searching you/others to help bridge to some people there that have me on their FL like GibbShift, but getting no hits on you and others in the search.
Hopefully the Playstation.com method works.
It's not worth debating with him. Clearly Jest values his time as much as Bungie does.But if we want to use the items we enjoy we are forced to do this:
DLC maxed exotic with higher dmg is here - top
.
.
.
.
Vanilla maxed exotic is here - middle
.
.
.
.
Brand new unlevelled Exotic is here - bottom
If anyone who has already maxed their favourite exotics wants to use them at max potential they have to now go:
Bottom
Middle
Bottom
Middle
Top
While those who haven't put as much effort in get to go
Bottom
Middle
Top
It's not ok because we got to enjoy it for x amount of time, because we earnt that enjoyment by going through the arduous levelling process already.
We're not earning any unique new experience by forcing ourselves through the levelling process again. We're simply earning a little more damage that will let us use our favourite gear in higher level content, but for the privilege of that we're forced to go through what we've already been through. This isn't vertical, this is sadistic.
I don't know how much clearer this can be written.
Some please help me here!
LollipoPReapeR
Member
But if we want to use the items we enjoy we are forced to do this:
DLC maxed exotic with higher dmg is here - top
.
.
.
.
Vanilla maxed exotic is here - middle
.
.
.
.
Brand new unlevelled Exotic is here - bottom
If anyone who has already maxed their favourite exotics wants to use them at max potential they have to now go:
Bottom
Middle
Bottom
Middle
Top
While those who haven't put as much effort in get to go
Bottom
Middle
Top
It's not ok because we got to enjoy it for x amount of time, because we earnt that enjoyment by going through the arduous levelling process already.
We're not earning any unique new experience by forcing ourselves through the levelling process again. We're simply earning a little more damage that will let us use our favourite gear in higher level content, but for the privilege of that we're forced to go through what we've already been through. This isn't vertical, this is sadistic.
I don't know how much clearer this can be written.
Some please help me here!
I did man. Everyone else agrees with you. Just give it up. It just doesn't matter anymore.
Exactly. This reset is happening because Bungie is not creating new weapons... That would be costly on Bungies bottom line... So instead they up the attack stat and up the defense stat of enemies and say wow if you want your weapons to continue to be effective you have to reset them back to zero and upgrade them all over again... it's total crap.
So I've stayed thinking about this and I really think they should have a very slight change to their plan:
I take my 300/300 Ice Breaker to Xûr. I ask that shady asshole to let me upgrade it. I pay whatever it is they'll charge for it. Go back to my weapons screen and inspect my Ice Breaker. It's now at 302 attack - (yay, upgrade!) but with a ton of empty nodes. However, the actual Exotic perks (not the attack nodes) are still green. I basically "cleared" the attack upgrade bubbles and get to fill them again from a higher starting point.
There, crisis averted. We still need to pay Xûr for the right to upgrade. We still need to grind to hell and back to keep that shit current. We don't, however, lose progress which is the key here. I don't give a damn about bubbles clearing up or whatever. Attack value begins higher than what I left it at, just let me keep my Exotic perks and we're good. I won't be gimping my weapon by buying the chance to grind more for it, it's all we ask
I mean I would actually be fine if you turn in a maxed exotic that you get it back reset but with every bubble green. So that I only have to put in materials, glimmer, weapon parts and finally the exotic shard to max it out again. still enough of an annoyance but not that extreme grind again to unlock the upgrades first.
Thursday War
Banned
Got the MIDI multi tool from doing the raid for the first time and this thing wrecks in crucible.
Jest Chillin
Member
Per the Game Informer article the reward you get for the very first Quest Line you do in the expansion is a brand new Fusion rifle, which will be at the new raised base power level. The author also said *most* of the new quest lines reward you with gear of some kind. This aside from the fact that outside of the Raid, the new content doesn't require maxed items, and that's assuming the Raid actually does.
I disagree that it's the same opporunity cost question that one would face if they don't reset the perks. Because the perks are the primary advantage in any given Exotic since Legendaries reach the same max Attack potential.
Exotics aren't necessary and never have been. So, no, they don't have to provide them with upgrade paths.
Yeh man. Further head bashing would make me even more insane.
Too tied and pissed off to see sense. I have no idea why I put myself through that.
Thanks guys.
TheTylerDurden
Member
Thanks for the links. The 7k glimmer thing seems to come from someone who test played it a few weeks back. Bungie's announcement today made no mention of it as part of the upgrade process. Perhaps that particular requirement was dropped.
The only cost that Bungie indicates for the upgrade, is the exotic shard itself.
blue_phazon
Member
I remember the Dark Below ad mentioning secret things they couldn't say yet.
I'm hoping it's the 3rd subclasses!
I'm hoping it's the 3rd subclasses!
Twilight Gap
Member
a weapon that i liked dropped and i leveled it up where i could so it was effective again. i wasn't using my "brand new exotic" in a hard raid until it was maxed, but i'd swap to it when i turned in a bounty or went out on patrol. if it was better than what i had before, it stuck with me.
that decision making isn't going to change if players are bringing weapons they've already worked on into new content. If dragon's breath looks more attractive than gjallarhorn, i'm not going to ignore it because i already have a maxed gjallarhorn. but if i have to level both gjallarhorn and dragon's breath to use them in the new content, i may be inclined to choose the new weapon rather than grind one i just maxed all over again.
that seems shortsighted, especially for a game like destiny where the devs have to timegate the amount of content to mask its scarcity.
Orthogonal
Member
It feels like a slap in the face knowing that I have to level all of this AGAIN to make it relevant.
Even though you have a huge stockpile of coins. Glimmer is going to be an obnoxious grind for that.
AmateurHour212
Member
Just got home from 10 days of travel and want to do the nightfall. Anyone in? Level 30 Titan with maxed solar weapons.
The new exotics don't even seem that much more fun or unique. I still want to try them out and hopefully some surprise me but I also want the option to easily use the guns I've grown attached to and keep the progress I've made on them. I've spent way too much time on this game to be honest.
If the new exotics were more unique and there were more of them I don't think this would be happening. Destiny's content is lacking. Always has been and this DLC isn't going to change that too much. They know that.
If the new exotics were more unique and there were more of them I don't think this would be happening. Destiny's content is lacking. Always has been and this DLC isn't going to change that too much. They know that.
Invite me StrykerIsland
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