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[Hawkian]

Been through the raid a couple of times since my first newbie run, but I'd like to take my Titan through for the first time if there is a spot.

PSN: FenixOne

Think I've ran a Newbie Raid with you before Hawk, but I'll be an alt if you don't get enough newer players.

Putting myself out there for those who want Nightfall/Xyor assistance on Thursday, starting at 8AM Eastern Time. Will also be willing to jump in Friday if needed since I have the strike exotic bounty to complete.

Edit: PS4. PSN ArkkAngel007.

you two are in, very cool of you to help out with the other stuff too

 

[E92 M3]

Who here is on the Xbone?

Few of us, but we're united.

Spoiler

I think

 

[Frenden]

I'm selfishly worried beyond just the extra grind. This proposed upgrade path for exotics is so bad that I can see half of my friends list quitting. If that happens, I won't have anyone to Nightfall with.

 

[Twilight Gap]

They should have made the gunsmith the one in charge of exotic gun upgrades, and have all exotics available to upgrade at any time. The dude is worthless right now besides that one rare fusion rifle bounty.

seriously. just have him rotate his daily exotic weapon. so you don't have to wait a week and hope the one you want to upgrade is there.

bungie didn't think this through at all...

 

[ArkkAngel007]

lol, so true. Most of the NPCs are so underused and they all sell you stuff. Literally zero other functions.

That's because the social player interaction is the primary econo...oh.

 

[FyreWulff]

They should have made the gunsmith the one in charge of exotic gun upgrades, and have all exotics available to upgrade at any time. The dude is worthless right now besides that one rare fusion rifle bounty.

Yeah, it's a bit weird how the gunsmith actually never really acts like a gunsmith

 

[Frenden]

seriously. just have him rotate his daily exotic weapon.

I'd MUCH rather he simply sell a universal upgrade material. But that doesn't have enough progression gating apparently.

 

[realcZk]

seriously. just have him rotate his daily exotic weapon. so you don't have to wait a week and hope the one you want to upgrade is there.

bungie didn't think this through at all...

making us wait is what bungie does best

 

[Deku Tree]

Deku, did you guys end up running a flawless raid attempt today?

Very sorry I didn't reply to your PM yet. Been overwhelmed with real life... No we didn't run any attempts yet.

 

[Bladelaw]

PSN AdamKoy

I'll be on by 10

Great you're in.
I sent invites out to everyone. Shoot me a psn message if you can't join.

 

[Sword Of Doom]

It doesn't validate getting the new ones, it makes the new ones a viable option to try out. Otherwise, the new gear just becomes an afterthought because it's not as viable initially and as people put more time into their current stuff over the new stuff it becomes less and less viable.

I don't understand how any of those makes the new exotics viable or not viable. The casual players will take any exotic they can get. If it drops for them and it's an exotic they are ecstatic. The more dedicated players who pour hundreds of hours into the game most likely will collect as many exotics as they can. I don't think they will pass up on a chance to get the new rocket launcher just because they have gjallarhorn

 

[LollipoPReapeR]

I think you mean players that haven't poured as much time into maxing out Exotics rather than new players. That's true. And with the exception of those that leveled Exotics a bunch in the recent weeks, those that did put that time in also enjoyed the perks of having fully leveled Exotics. Unique mods that wrecked the current content. Which is what the Exotics purpose actually is.

If you want to keep your Exotics current to the new Progression Scale, then every time Progression advances, yes you have to level the Exotics again. I don't think it's fair or accurate to say that Bungie doesn't "value" the time it's players have put in. Having to put more time into leveling things is a staple of Vertical Progression. It doesn't work otherwise. I am, as I'm sure Bungie is as well, fully aware that people have limited time to play. However I find it hard to believe that people with limited time to play have so many fully leveled Exotics that it makes a serious difference.

It primarily affects the people with a ton of time to play. The people who have accrued a ton of Exotics and spent the time since launch leveling them. It took a lot of time then and it will take a lot of time now. That's exactly how vertical progression works.

Let's just agree to disagree. I am not going to come to your viewpoint because upgrading current weapons to make them relevant compared to new ones should not in any way or form include scrapping the hard work players put into them. Also over the last three months, the exotics came in a trickle, so you could focus on one at a time. Now you have to get all the 'upgrades' Xur has available because you never know when he'll get them again. This would also mean you can potentially have several exotics that you have to level up and are also potentially useless without thier perks. If it was a seperate circle(s) then go nuts. Complete reset? Yeah they can go fuck off.

 

[ArkkAngel007]

you two are in, very cool of you to help out with the other stuff too

Thanks and always a pleasure to help.

 

[purg3]

Who here is on the Xbone?

I am.

Few of us, but we're united.

Spoiler

I think

Do I have you on my fl? what's your GT?

 

[Sword Of Doom]

Let's just agree to disagree. I am not going to come to your viewpoint because making current weapons relevant to new ones should not in any way or form include scrapping the hard work players put into them. Also over the last three months, the exotics came in a trickle, so you could focus on one at a time. Now you have to get all the 'upgrades' Xur has available because you never know when he'll get them again. This would also mean you can potentially have several exotics that you have to level up and are also potentially useless without thier perks. If it was a seperate circle(s) then go nuts. Complete reset? Yeah they can go fuck off.

That's exactly how I feel. Even if I only upgrade my essential exotic weapons that's a lot of work. Plus I am not getting them spaced out one at a time and the fun of unlocking perks on my brand new exotic is not in the equation. I'm basically grinding endlessly to get my weapon to where it was before. It just sucks



Edit** I can see this being something that would make people stop playing the game. The more I think about it the more tedious and pointless it seems. Especially when you consider you will have to do it all over again when the next expansion is released

 

[R0ckman]

Where is bungie getting the notion that allowing the old exotics to stay relevant will stop people from obtaining new exotics? The point of exotics seems to be to combine them in various ways to build special set ups. If I think a new exotic looks cool, I'll play the DLC in hopes to obtaining the ones that I want to try and obtain. There are several that I think look cool, even though I have every exotic that I wanted, it doesn't effect my desire for new ones that come out. Bungie can't force me to care about exotics in the new content anymore than they can force me to care about exotics I didn't care to get in the vanilla game.

 

[LollipoPReapeR]

That's exactly how I feel. Even if I only upgrade my essential exotic weapons that's a lot of work. Plus I am not getting them spaced out one at a time and the fun of unlocking perks on my brand new exotic is not in the equation. I'm basically grinding endlessly to get my weapon to where it was before. It just sucks

Ex-fucking-actly. It's not like they're new. I already know what they feel like and how they play. There's nothing exciting about grinding for perk you already HAD and USED before.

I think I'm gonna start slowing down on this game once I level up my titan to get Guardian Lord and do the new raid a few times

 

[the_log_ride]

Very sorry I didn't reply to your PM yet. Been overwhelmed with real life... No we didn't run any attempts yet.

I hear you. Just keep me looped in if you can!

 

[EmmaWatsonButt]

Let's just agree to disagree. I am not going to come to your viewpoint because upgrading current weapons to make them relevant compared to new ones should not in any way or form include scrapping the hard work players put into them. Also over the last three months, the exotics came in a trickle, so you could focus on one at a time. Now you have to get all the 'upgrades' Xur has available because you never know when he'll get them again. This would also mean you can potentially have several exotics that you have to level up and are also potentially useless without thier perks. If it was a seperate circle(s) then go nuts. Complete reset? Yeah they can go fuck off.

Nicely put. Perhaps they will change their minds about some of this stuff considering the amount of backlash all over the internet

 

[Sword Of Doom]

Ex-fucking-actly. It's not like they're new. I already know what they feel like and how they play. There's nothing exciting about grinding for perk you already HAD and USED before.

I think I'm gonna start slowing down on this game once I level up my titan to get Guardian Lord and do the new raid a few times

And guess what? You'll have to do it again in a few months if you're still playing and you can add the new exotics you will get from this expansion on top of the long list of weapons you need to level from scratch. Lol who in their right minds thought this was a good idea?

 

[JohnOfMars]

I'd MUCH rather he simply sell a universal upgrade material. But that doesn't have enough progression gating apparently.

This. Resetting progress is crap. Doing it after 3 months is crap. Tying it to Xur's RNG is crap. Making it super expensive sucks (7 Strange Coins and 7,000 glimmer per exotic adds up quick).

If they don't want current exotics to compete at first, just have Xur delay selling the universal upgrade materials. Or don't care about it. Bungie wants is to use all the exotics. They made them all awesome with their latest patch.

 

[Zakalwe]

It doesn't validate getting the new ones, it makes the new ones a viable option to try out. Otherwise, the new gear just becomes an afterthought because it's not as viable initially and as people put more time into their current stuff over the new stuff it becomes less and less viable.



Again, that's why the design of these games is referred to as a "treadmill." You put in a lot of effort but at the end you don't really go anywhere. The reward you get for doing it is a tangible increase in power. Some people like that. If you didn't have to work to increrase the power then there's no point in increasing the power. So you don't increase the power and instead, new stuff would be the same level as the old stuff. That's Horizontal Progression. But with Horizontal Progression, challenge is harder to create. People eat through content faster and thus content has to be provided faster to keep people engaged. It's a very difficult thing to accomplish.

They are forcing players who've already put in hours of grind to do it again for the exact same items.

Levelling an exotic is a pain. You can't use it for any meaningful content till it's levelled, you're at a disadvantage in pvp and pve until you do. It's forcing everyone who's already been through that arduous process numerous times to do it /all/ again.

Why? It serves no purpose.

Instead, why not let us keep out fully upgraded Exotics and just add a final circle for 200k xp. Make us grind for it but let us use our fully levelled gear to help enjoy that grind a little more.

We're not against having to work for the extra power. We're agains the way they've decided. Only those who've levelled multiple exotics will understand. It is /not/ a fun process.

 

[Ruze789]

Who here is on the Xbone?

I am, I only really get a chance to play for an hour or so a night though.

Solo'd the NF tonight, got 5 strange coins

 

[Twilight Gap]

Nicely put. Perhaps they will change their minds about some of this stuff considering the amount of backlash all over the internet

probably wont be changed until january. every other update has been backlash after backlash.

 

[kidko]

I am, I only really get a chance to play for an hour or so a night though.

Solo'd the NF tonight, got 5 strange coins

Better than the crappy scout rifle I got :/

 

[Jest Chillin]

No, I meant new players. I was using the extremes at both ends of the spectrum.

The rest of your post is pretty absurd: because we got to enjoy something we invested a lot of time into earning, it's ok that we have to repeat that grind to start enjoying them again?

Incredible.

New players have to Level 1-20 and start the gearing process from scratch, with less of the populace to choose from to help them because the majority of the playerbase has moved on to the new content. They don't actually spend less time getting to where you got.

There's nothing absurd about what I wrote at all. Exotics were never advertised as "get these items and they'll always be the most powerful items in the game, never having to be replaced." They're advertised as being more unique and rare than the other gear. Which is still true. Resetting them just makes them equal in effort to the new Exotics in the game.

I don't understand how any of those makes the new exotics viable or not viable. The casual players will take any exotic they can get. If it drops for them and it's an exotic they are ecstatic. The more dedicated players who pour hundreds of hours into the game most likely will collect as many exotics as they can. I don't think they will pass up on a chance to get the new rocket launcher just because they have gjallarhorn

They won't pass up on acquiring it but why use it when it would be categorically worse than what you already have? People would just put it away until they max the stuff they have already that's already powerful. If they didn't reset progress on the current Exotics when you Upgrade them, choosing to level a new one over one you already have would be intentionally limiting yourself. Not many will choose to do that.

Let's just agree to disagree. I am not going to come to your viewpoint because making current weapons relevant to new ones should not in any way or form include scrapping the hard work players put into them. Also over the last three months, the exotics came in a trickle, so you could focus on one at a time. Now you have to get all the 'upgrades' Xur has available because you never know when he'll get them again. This would also mean you can potentially have several exotics that you have to level up and are also potentially useless without thier perks. If it was a seperate circle(s) then go nuts. Complete reset? Yeah they can go fuck off.

I don't think it scraps the hardwork at all because the payoff for the hardwork came in using the items in the base game. Old Exotics being viable at all beyond the first bit of New Content is a bonus. This doesn't happen in most Vertical Progression games.

Your complaint about Xur is valid, though I feel a bit extreme. He'll offer multiple upgrades per week, so I don't think it will be as bad as you're suggesting and having a bunch of Exotics that need to be leveled at once seems like a good problem to have in my book. This is especially so because most Exotics are situational usage. However if the problem is that Xur may not stock the upgrade for the weapon you want often enough, then the gripe should be about Xur's stock not being dependable, which is a legitimate gripe to have, even now. Offering the same piece of gear week after week for Warlocks was terrible and nothing like that should happen again. THAT should be the focus, rather than the entire system. The message to Bungie should be "Don't allow that kind of thing to happen again" not "This whole system is bad."

 

[Mutagenic]

I have to keep reminding myself that Bungie isn't looking for good, well-intentioned design. They aren't looking for the most rewarding, most common sense approach to the design of their game. They want to create new systems that extend the life of their game, with as little new content as they can get away with.

I'll never recommend the game to someone on the fence. I can't do so with a good conscience.

 

[NastyBook]

Anybody here interested in doing a fresh normal raid?

 

[E92 M3]

I am.



Do I have you on my fl? what's your GT?

I think so GT is

Spoiler

Trance Addix

 

[Byron Bluth]

Thorn and Invective get! Also the God of War shader! A good night!

Hopefully my first raid of the week goes well too!

 

[blue_phazon]

I spent the past few days leveling my exotics to make them stronger for pve.

Guess it was all for nothing

 

[LollipoPReapeR]

Nicely put. Perhaps they will change their minds about some of this stuff considering the amount of backlash all over the internet

As Zoba said above it won't be for a while considering Christmas is just around the corner and all the festivities concerned with it. I would wager we won't see anything till February (not counting the occasional DeeJ post saying 'sooooon...')

This honestly reminds me of MS a little bit. The fucking up of player good will and then insulting them on top of that (to be fair to Deej, he owned up to that.)

And guess what? You'll have to do it again in a few months if you're still playing and you can add the new exotics you will get from this expansion on top of the long list of weapons you need to level from scratch. Lol who in their right minds thought this was a good idea?

Now everyone should see why people are walking away. This 'treadmill' metaphor works for new stuff. Not old stuff. That would climbing up a mountain then throwing yourself off it, to climb up the taller mountain next to it. Makes no fucking sense

 

[Twilight Gap]

I have to keep reminding myself that Bungie isn't looking for good, well-intentioned design. They aren't looking for the most rewarding, most common sense approach to the design of their game. They want to create new systems that extend the life of their game, with as little new content as they can get away with.

I'll never recommend the game to someone on the fence. I can't do so with a good conscience.

Exactly. They want to spread the content thinly even if it meets developing counter-intuitive systems that could potentially cripple it in the long run. It's a classic case of "short-term investment" where they're doing damage control rather than building a solid foundation for the future. Unless i'm misunderstanding why the game is changing drastically every other week.

before black friday, my cousin asked me if he should get Destiny or Advanced Warefare. I don't think i've said the words "Call of Duty" so fast...

 

[Geneijin]

Have to max them first?

I don't think so, but we don't know for sure. That would be exceptionally cruel.

I also keep seeing reference to this 7k glimmer figure for the upgrade process. Is this in the update from Bungie, because I must have missed that part somehow.

It could happen. The lack of clarification is frustrating.

7,000 glimmer plus exotic shard requirement from:

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/featu...low-new-details-on-the-destiny-expansion.aspx

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=944539

 

[Achilles_]

Looking to run the Raid on Normal, anybody need an extra?

PSN: Raadius
Lvl 29 Titan

 

[Zakalwe]

New players have to Level 1-20 and start the gearing process from scratch, with less of the populace to choose from to help them because the majority of the playerbase has moved on to the new content. They don't actually spend less time getting to where you got.

So what about those players levelling alts? People level new characters constantly and this game is (currently) not short on it's player base.

Have you even played this game?

There's nothing absurd about what I wrote at all. Exotics were never advertised as "get these items and they'll always be the most powerful items in the game, never having to be replaced." They're advertised as being more unique and rare than the other gear. Which is still true. Resetting them just makes them equal in effort to the new Exotics in the game.

It's incredibly absurd.

You miss the point /entirely/.

See here.

 

[Lima]

Don't worry Bungie will ease the pain of re upgrading your exotics. Remember Eris will also have new bounties each day in addition to the vanguard and crucible ones. You just have to do more lame tasks like playing salvage when it's not even available every day. Have fun.

 

[Coconut]

KrugerrandMan ps4 weekly on heroics 28 lets fucking do this!

 

[NastyBook]

Looking to run the Raid on Normal, anybody need an extra?

PSN: Raadius
Lvl 29 Titan

I'm looking to do a Normal Raid, as well.

1. GibbShift
2. Raadius
3. DaveS78
4.
5.
6.

Anybody else interested?

 

[bobbyrawlins]

I am, I only really get a chance to play for an hour or so a night though.

Solo'd the NF tonight, got 5 strange coins

Better than the crappy scout rifle I got :/

Also got a trash scout rifle. I'd rather have the strange coins.

 

[E92 M3]

Did you guys notice there is a "I" next to the TDB cinematic? Maybe we'll unlock after finishing the whole storyline including the raid.

 

[LollipoPReapeR]

I don't think it scraps the hardwork at all because the payoff for the hardwork came in using the items in the base game. Old Exotics being viable at all beyond the first bit of New Content is a bonus. This doesn't happen in most Vertical Progression games.

I... I.. Just don't know what to say.

However I will say, this is NOT an mmo. I repeat NOT an mmo. It has neither the content nor was it designed that way.

 

[Zakalwe]

I would like to summarise the issue here for people like 'Just Chillin' who don't seem to understand:

Levelling exotics is boring because the items don't become enjoyable (and in some instances actually useful) until you unlock their unique upgrades.

Upgrading an exotic to that point takes a long time.

They're forcing us to go through this arduous task twice when they could have let us use the exotics we've already earnt to earn their own new upgrades.

They could have added an extra circle to fill at the end of the exotic that takes the same amount of time to fill as the entire weapon before it instead of forcing us to go through what we've already been through.

We're not against treadmills. We're against having our progress reset and being forced to re-level which is quite possibly the most boring aspect of the game.

 

[LollipoPReapeR]

Don't worry Bungie will ease the pain of re upgrading your exotics. Remember Eris will also have new bounties each day in addition to the vanguard and crucible ones. You just have to do more lame tasks like playing salvage when it's not even available every day. Have fun.

It's thoughts like these which make me question why the fuck am I still playing?

Think it's just a mixture of Stockholm syndrome and the fact that game can be pretty fun sometimes when bungie ain't trying to fuck us over

 

[Dave_6]

I'm looking to do a Normal Raid, as well.

1. GibbShift
2. Raadius
3.
4.
5.
6.

Anybody else interested?

I'll join. I've got a 29 Hunter. PSN is DaveS78

 

[zewone]

Did you guys notice there is a "I" next to the TDB cinematic? Maybe we'll unlock after finishing the whole storyline including the raid.

II would be House of Wolves.

 

[Orthogonal]

Exactly. They want to spread the content thinly even if it meets developing counter-intuitive systems that could potentially cripple it in the long run. It's a classic case of "short-term investment" where they're doing damage control rather than building a solid foundation for the future. Unless i'm misunderstanding why the game is changing drastically every other week.

before black friday, my cousin asked me if he should get Destiny or Advanced Warefare. I don't think i've said the words "Call of Duty" so fast...

The drastic system changes just to accomodate 1 raid and a few other PvE missions shows an alarming lack of planning in the game design. The progression system should be simple enough to just be n+1 for loot and characters, but instead we get divide by 0.

 

[Achilles_]

I'm looking to do a Normal Raid, as well.

1. GibbShift
2. Raadius
3. DaveS78
4.
5.
6.

Anybody else interested?

Cool.

Need 3 more.

 

[Strider]

I would lie to summarise the issue here for people like 'Just Chillin' who don't seen to understand:

Levelling exotics is boring because the items don't become enjoyable (and in some instances actually useful) until you unlock their unique upgrades.

Upgrading an exotic to that point takes a long time.

They're forcing us to go through this arduous task twice when they could have let us use the exotics we've already earnt to earn the new upgrades.

They could have added an extra circle to fill at the end of the exotic that takes the same a ok t of time to fill as the entire weapon before it instead of firing us to go through what we've already been through.

We're not against treadmills. We're against having our progress reset and being forced to re-level which is quite possibly the most voting aspect of the game.

Yea. I wanted to use the expansion to upgrade the exotics I haven't gotten to upgrade yet and level up the new exotics... Not level up the one's I have already leveled up.

 

[JohnOfMars]

Did you guys notice there is a "I" next to the TDB cinematic? Maybe we'll unlock after finishing the whole storyline including the raid.

The "I" just indicates that it's Expansion 1. You can see the same icon at the end of the trailer when they show the title. Expect to see the same I on The Dark Below missions and the Weekly/Nightfall on the side of the director.