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Destiny |OT11| It goes up to 11!
- Thread starter Hawkian
- Start date
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Hunter-Zero
Member
I put an insane amount of hours in this game, i played A LOT, a big chunk of that time was just leveling my exotic gear, this last weeks in particular, all i did was leveling exotic gear to be ready for The Dark Below, and suddenly, out of nowhere, they drop the bomb and all that time and effort is immediately wasted while they go like "hey guys! rejoice! you can further upgrade your gear! but just so you know, it will reset progress, so be ready for grinding again!" say what? nope.
This very well could be the thing that makes me finally stop playing this game so much, why would i put so many hours again in anything new i could get if they could reset it again when The House Of Wolves releases next year?.
I like the game, but i don´t like repeating the same shit again over and over leveling the same fucking exotics AGAIN.
Byron Bluth
Banned
I would like to start a #ForeverNoVex club
Who's with me?
Who's with me?
The Mango Sentinel
Member
You know what...I've made up my mind. I'm just gonna use the new weapons offered. I can't be bothered to lose my perks and start all this bullshit over again. I really wouldn't mind if you kept all the perks, but I just don't have the patience.
I'm just gonna stick with new weapons so I don't feel burned. At least I'll still be able to use all the old shit during crucible.
I'm just gonna stick with new weapons so I don't feel burned. At least I'll still be able to use all the old shit during crucible.
DrDrizzay101
Member
Yeah, exactly the same as me and then I just got a 3rd this week. Got my 2nd and third FBringers too, while one fellow raider that needs a Vex got the Hard Light and TLord I wanted and another guy got a duplicate Timepiece I wanted but has ~23 hard raids with no FBringer... Imagine if you could trade within your raid party at the end.
Steroyd. Also dengatron had well over 20 clears before getting one, and I know others have gone 20+ as well.
Yeah, I'm not going to rush into resetting anything until I feel what it's like.
I have a feeling our maxed exotics are going to feel just fine in the new content, and occasionally taking one out of the rotation to 'prestige' it isn't going to be so bad.
No Vex Zone.
I was right there with you, but mine dropped today.
robertsan21
Member
I hear you, I feel the exact same way. its a broken stupid system. Shouldnt these games be FUN to play? We had that great exotic update the other day and it made the game feel a bit fresh and not as grindy, now this shit drops and we are back at grinding again.
We have had the same damn strikes, same dame nightfall/weekly since release. Come on now bungie, how much do they think the fans of destiny can take before we quite playing your game?
I have lvled up a lot of exotics and there is NO way I will do that again unless they just added 2-3 bubbles that would lvl up qucikly for the exotics we already have.
Yeah, the Epilogue will be great for future VoG runs since it's great for Oracles on Normal. Sucks about the Raid Gear, though. I know that feel.
When did you get a P&T? From the Gorgon chest? Atheon?
We had something interesting happen during HM Atheon. One guy dropped out to switch to an alt. While waiting for him to return a guy from my friends list joins. Go to kick him and it says he is the fireteam leader! Had to send him a PSN message that we already had 6. You'd think if the fireteam leader switched it wouldn't go to someone who joined a minute or two later.
Then I had 2 Battlecage of Kabr drop from Atheon, my 6th Battlecage in 6 HM raids. Still no chestpiece.
Then I had 2 Battlecage of Kabr drop from Atheon, my 6th Battlecage in 6 HM raids. Still no chestpiece.
I don't understand this complaining. You do have 300 level weapons so they do heavy damage from the beginning. There is only normal Raid available at 9th, hard raid (32 level) comes January. So there are plenty time to get few of those guns to level 32 before you really need them. After that it's just upgrading as usual.
Well yeah I know that but I'm asking if anybody has done strictly crucible to level up all the way and what their experience with it was like. It's either that or do the story missions again and neither is all that appealing lmao.
Not everybody has lots of spare time. And the spare time we do have shouldn't be spent upgrading the same weapon twice when we've already done it.
Tonberry Manilow
Neo Member
Finally got the raid helmet from HM. All of those days in the struggle are over, I can hit 30 now!
Thank you RNGesus and Based God.
Thank you RNGesus and Based God.
Turdburger
Member
Bungie is dumb as fuck
that is all
that is all
Yes, that is understood. But this upgrade doesn't reduce the damage, they start at 300. Of course you need to upgrade the perks but still you don't need to start with lower attack rate. So basically you pay only 7coins to get to the new upgrade "lane". Then the final 7coins to max out the weapon is normal fee that you would have been paid anyways. I assume that everyone now knows what exotic they are using most, there are no need to upgrade those shitty ones.
But yes, it takes time to upgrade. But that can't be a bad thing.
Hunter-Zero
Member
Yeah, just upgrading as usual, the same fucking guns, from zero, and all the time and effort, glimmer and materials we put before on those are going to the goddamn trash.
Byron Bluth
Banned
It's just so lame. Just drop already!
RickyRozay
Member
Anybody running a normal raid?
Turdburger
Member
Whichever blind Crota's End raid group that has Hawkian in it will be world first, there'd just be too much advice going around to not get world first.
Me.
This is my problem, there are a lot of non-shitty exotics that I use depending on the situation, basically I have a deck of cards and play my hand depending on the opponent, I don't want to be shoe horned into only picking 1 or 2 exotics because Xur is being a asshole for the week, which lets not forget we have to rely on Xur having the right upgrade thing that very week before I can even consider taking my ballerhorn into the new world, which would be my priority uno.
Lalalandia
Member
Spoken like someone with lots more free time than me with my schedule I can manage roughly one exotic to Max a week. So given I have 13-15 exotics I'm looking at 2-3 months to get back to where I am. This is just shite and a sign of a dev who know they don't have the content and are leaning hard on cheap tricks to extend play time
I was delighted at the destination mat trading as I saw it as a sign they were backing off time sink bullshit but it seems not.
Johan Liebert
Member
My body is ready
Level 30 nightfall can't be true. New players wouldn't be able to do anything for far too damn long unless the progression to 30 is that much faster for even those that don't buy the DLC.
I mean I know it was posted on Bungie.net but... Really that can't be true right?
And man this regrinding of weapons. Talk about slapping your hardcore audience in the face. I mean you are actually penalized more if you were lucky with the rng, got multiple exotics, and bothered to spend the time grind all your weapons up. It's like getting your save fucking deleted
Maybe they thought it was like call of duty prestige. But with no additional reward beyond your weapons simply not being effective in high level content. I mean at least give a more meaningful gain: alternate element type, extra perk, additional loot drops for special items, whatever. Anything to make it seem worth the time to grind all your weapons back up. It's actually feeling good that I didn't bother upgrading anything max but Suros and Hawkmoon. Had started plan c and truth but fuck that noise
I mean I know it was posted on Bungie.net but... Really that can't be true right?
And man this regrinding of weapons. Talk about slapping your hardcore audience in the face. I mean you are actually penalized more if you were lucky with the rng, got multiple exotics, and bothered to spend the time grind all your weapons up. It's like getting your save fucking deleted
Maybe they thought it was like call of duty prestige. But with no additional reward beyond your weapons simply not being effective in high level content. I mean at least give a more meaningful gain: alternate element type, extra perk, additional loot drops for special items, whatever. Anything to make it seem worth the time to grind all your weapons back up. It's actually feeling good that I didn't bother upgrading anything max but Suros and Hawkmoon. Had started plan c and truth but fuck that noise
Hunter-Zero
Member
I guess that this could be posted already, but damn...from reddit/bungie forums
http://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/82106803
Nope.
NOPE.
http://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/82106803
Nope.
NOPE.
No one seems to be talking about the commendation shit either. Cuz that SEEMs to mean that you can't even buy a legendary without grinding the rep of a vendor to the next level. So if you are grinding your marks up to max every week... Well fuck you still can't buy shit. Gotta grind that rep which takes an EXTREMELY long ass time. Maybe this was there way of convincing you to buy other worthless shit with your marks like sparrows and emblems. Man fuck all of this
Twilight Gap
Member
speaking of reddit (not mine):
"
The gear treadmill and why "clearly you've never played an MMO" is a misguided response to those upset by recent news
So I've been trying to put my finger on exactly what is so irritating about this patch to me -- someone who played WoW for 8 years, quite actively (well over a year of /played time), someone who should have (ostensibly) been prepared for this kind of gear reset.
Here's the thing: Destiny isn't WoW. As much as I might wish it were a lot more like WoW, it's being managed by a company with no experience in MMOs (or MMO-lite games, which is more accurate for Destiny) or loot-based games, and it's showing. There are a billion things that have been learned over the course of 15ish years of MMOs and 10 years of WoW that have been utterly ignored by Bungie in their development of Destiny, like RNG mitigation, social tools, and encounter design, but those really aren't the issue here.
The issue is that Bungie has an absolute metric buttload to learn about communication.
People keep comparing Destiny to games like WoW, saying that anyone who is surprised or shocked or frustrated with the latest news of exotic resets has clearly never played another MMO. Otherwise, obviously that person would understand the nature of the gear treadmill and that this was bound to happen. And sure, maybe it was.
But the difference between WoW (or nearly any other well-managed MMO) and Destiny is quite simply that Blizzard wouldn't make a change like this without:
a) forewarning the community in ample enough time to get feedback before implementation was a week away
b) ensuring the community didn't throw away invested time in something that was only going to last a week, or
c) releasing the information from the horse's mouth before it got out through a third-party like Game Informer.
News like this is pretty massive. In a game like WoW, this type of change would be saved for a major expansion -- one that comes years after the release of the previous, not three months afterward. Beyond that, the nature of the exotic change is quite a bit different from the nature of a gear reset in a traditional MMO. A gear reset in WoW typically changes very little of the basic playstyle of your character. You might lose a set bonus that makes one of your spells work slightly differently, or you might end up short of a haste breakpoint that slightly alters your optimal spell rotation. But generally speaking, a resto druid is going to play like a resto druid, regardless of what gear you're wearing or what weapon you're wielding. But in Destiny, guns dictate your playstyle far more than your subclass, or even your main class. The way you play with Thorn, for example, is utterly different from the way you play with Invective. Exotics, in particular, typically alter your playstyle in pretty noticeable ways. So when Bungie says, "oh btdubs, if you still want to use those guns you're going to have to turn them in for New Gun+ and then level them again," you're not experiencing the same feeling as going from 85 to 90 when Mists of Pandaria comes out. Bungie has just limited the options you have for different playstyles in the future -- and that is only considering the having-to-choose-which-exotics-to-relevel bit. That's not including the swath of Vanguard and Crucible and raid legendaries that will be falling to the wayside, into obsolescence, once you're doing hard mode content or Iron Banner next time around.
Will there be another gun similar to Vision of Confluence? Sure, but it won't be the same gun. Is Crota's End going to drop a legendary that feels like my 3-tube, Flared Magwell, Clown Cartridge Admonisher III? Maybe so, but I doubt I'll be lucky enough to end up with those same perks (RNGesus plz). The point is, Bungie dropped the ball, not just with this change, but with making sure the community knew what was going on ahead of time. Worse still, they released an update that would cause players to dismantle extra exotics and spend glimmer and materials and time upgrading current weapons, knowing full well that they were about to release an update that would render all of that effort null and void.
Other threads have popped up offering perfectly good solutions to this feeling of being shafted - just adding more bubbles to previous exotics, or making sure that only players with fully-upgraded exotics could exchange them for the new tier version. But Bungie didn't do those things, and there's really not enough time for them to make changes like that in the week before The Dark Below releases. Will it get fixed post-release? Maybe, but the damage has already been done. People have already invested Exotic Shards into guns and will now have to invest two more Exotic Shards into the new versions, when they could have just waited a week and saved a shard, and time, and glimmer.
The lesson here is that we can't trust Bungie. It hurts me to say that, but as of right now, I feel like playing this game at all is gambling that Bungie doesn't have a plan to wipe away my time investment in a week. And that's not something that's going to change after the expansion is released -- it's something that's going to last as long as we play this game.
But that's just it, isn't it? As long as we play this game. I fear, for a lot of people, that time has just run out.
TLW: Bungie needs to learn to communicate and stop making bass-ackward design decisions without taking care to inform the community (or worse, deliberately not inform them) first."
"
The gear treadmill and why "clearly you've never played an MMO" is a misguided response to those upset by recent news
So I've been trying to put my finger on exactly what is so irritating about this patch to me -- someone who played WoW for 8 years, quite actively (well over a year of /played time), someone who should have (ostensibly) been prepared for this kind of gear reset.
Here's the thing: Destiny isn't WoW. As much as I might wish it were a lot more like WoW, it's being managed by a company with no experience in MMOs (or MMO-lite games, which is more accurate for Destiny) or loot-based games, and it's showing. There are a billion things that have been learned over the course of 15ish years of MMOs and 10 years of WoW that have been utterly ignored by Bungie in their development of Destiny, like RNG mitigation, social tools, and encounter design, but those really aren't the issue here.
The issue is that Bungie has an absolute metric buttload to learn about communication.
People keep comparing Destiny to games like WoW, saying that anyone who is surprised or shocked or frustrated with the latest news of exotic resets has clearly never played another MMO. Otherwise, obviously that person would understand the nature of the gear treadmill and that this was bound to happen. And sure, maybe it was.
But the difference between WoW (or nearly any other well-managed MMO) and Destiny is quite simply that Blizzard wouldn't make a change like this without:
a) forewarning the community in ample enough time to get feedback before implementation was a week away
b) ensuring the community didn't throw away invested time in something that was only going to last a week, or
c) releasing the information from the horse's mouth before it got out through a third-party like Game Informer.
News like this is pretty massive. In a game like WoW, this type of change would be saved for a major expansion -- one that comes years after the release of the previous, not three months afterward. Beyond that, the nature of the exotic change is quite a bit different from the nature of a gear reset in a traditional MMO. A gear reset in WoW typically changes very little of the basic playstyle of your character. You might lose a set bonus that makes one of your spells work slightly differently, or you might end up short of a haste breakpoint that slightly alters your optimal spell rotation. But generally speaking, a resto druid is going to play like a resto druid, regardless of what gear you're wearing or what weapon you're wielding. But in Destiny, guns dictate your playstyle far more than your subclass, or even your main class. The way you play with Thorn, for example, is utterly different from the way you play with Invective. Exotics, in particular, typically alter your playstyle in pretty noticeable ways. So when Bungie says, "oh btdubs, if you still want to use those guns you're going to have to turn them in for New Gun+ and then level them again," you're not experiencing the same feeling as going from 85 to 90 when Mists of Pandaria comes out. Bungie has just limited the options you have for different playstyles in the future -- and that is only considering the having-to-choose-which-exotics-to-relevel bit. That's not including the swath of Vanguard and Crucible and raid legendaries that will be falling to the wayside, into obsolescence, once you're doing hard mode content or Iron Banner next time around.
Will there be another gun similar to Vision of Confluence? Sure, but it won't be the same gun. Is Crota's End going to drop a legendary that feels like my 3-tube, Flared Magwell, Clown Cartridge Admonisher III? Maybe so, but I doubt I'll be lucky enough to end up with those same perks (RNGesus plz). The point is, Bungie dropped the ball, not just with this change, but with making sure the community knew what was going on ahead of time. Worse still, they released an update that would cause players to dismantle extra exotics and spend glimmer and materials and time upgrading current weapons, knowing full well that they were about to release an update that would render all of that effort null and void.
Other threads have popped up offering perfectly good solutions to this feeling of being shafted - just adding more bubbles to previous exotics, or making sure that only players with fully-upgraded exotics could exchange them for the new tier version. But Bungie didn't do those things, and there's really not enough time for them to make changes like that in the week before The Dark Below releases. Will it get fixed post-release? Maybe, but the damage has already been done. People have already invested Exotic Shards into guns and will now have to invest two more Exotic Shards into the new versions, when they could have just waited a week and saved a shard, and time, and glimmer.
The lesson here is that we can't trust Bungie. It hurts me to say that, but as of right now, I feel like playing this game at all is gambling that Bungie doesn't have a plan to wipe away my time investment in a week. And that's not something that's going to change after the expansion is released -- it's something that's going to last as long as we play this game.
But that's just it, isn't it? As long as we play this game. I fear, for a lot of people, that time has just run out.
TLW: Bungie needs to learn to communicate and stop making bass-ackward design decisions without taking care to inform the community (or worse, deliberately not inform them) first."
The Mango Sentinel
Member
Not that I don't agree with you, but I'd take it down a notch, as I got banned for a post a lot more tame than yours. And since you are in junior status...
If you would be so kind to unquote it then. MIGHT tone it down...
Sketch_Turntable
Member
Just beat Templar legit for the first time. Fight was a bitch with only knowing a basic idea of how to do it. I was the relic holder. Def wiped quickly a few times learning how to do things.
Got Found Verdict out of it.
Got Found Verdict out of it.
Sword Of Doom
Member
The wisdom is real
Turdburger
Member
thanks for writing this, i agree with all of what you said.
Orthogonal
Member
Excellent points, especially about the guns being a far greater impact on playstyle than your subclass. In fact, outside of the Super, there is barely a tangible difference between them, at least not on the scale of what Exotics Weapon or Gear you are using.
I never played WoW or any other MMO, but it's clear Bungie is going through the same growing pains that all the other developers went through and it's sad that it has to be this way with so many precedents set before them.
I hope they have a Reaper of Souls moment ahead of them. One that will galvanize the community and start a cycle of positive praise and momentum with everyone behind them.
The Mango Sentinel
Member
Lol. No prob. I actually tried to on my phone about 30 seconds later when I realized my error, but mobile gaf works like shit sometimes.
RickyRozay
Member
4 more slots for normal raid on ps4 if anyone is interested.
Psn akademik209
Psn akademik209
KennyLinder
Member
Initially I thought this would ruin the new Expansion from Day 1, but it will only really mean a difference for the new Raid, right?
PvP - Everyone will be using their current gear until they've got something new/better - Same as you
PvE - Well unless the new Strike and Story missions are Level 30 only, then our current Legendary (and Exotic) weapons will be absolutely fine right? And the same goes for our gear. And all the current in-game stuff will be fine too. The only thing that might be an issue is the Level 30 Nightfalls.
Or am I wrong?
PvP - Everyone will be using their current gear until they've got something new/better - Same as you
PvE - Well unless the new Strike and Story missions are Level 30 only, then our current Legendary (and Exotic) weapons will be absolutely fine right? And the same goes for our gear. And all the current in-game stuff will be fine too. The only thing that might be an issue is the Level 30 Nightfalls.
Or am I wrong?
Mostly. Several problems:
1) Level 31/32 content, obviously.
2) Iron Banner/Trials of Osiris
3) Higher attack weapons do more damage, so even in level 30 missions, if you don't reset your gear, you're not running at peak.
4) Resetting your exotics keeps the attack level about the same, but you lose access to what makes the weapon exotic in the first place, the perks you took the time to unlock.
And of course the hard mode raid (which, by the by, lost in the furor over this incredible exotic reset is the tiny little note tucked in there that mentions that primary weapons will only drop in the hard mode which isn't being released until january).
The Mango Sentinel
Member
I think you're right, which is why I've been cooling down and I'm not as upset about everything. I think I'm just gonna wait and see.
So maybe I'll fly off the handle in a week
KennyLinder
Member
What a minute!
When resetting Exotics, you don't lose the perks permanently do you? They are still there, you just have to unlock the bubble again.
It's all super cunty and especially worse for me who can't put hours and hours in each day.
Is Trials of Osiris PvP?
yep, unlocking all of them again. + dishing out coins for another Exotic Shard for the final bubble. I'm in the same position; my gaming time is 'limited' and I dont want to spend it all on Destiny :/ I've been playing since day 1 with 2 friends and we havent even done the raid yet (blabla, we want to do it together first etc). I play mostly PvE; this 'reset' makes it even more of a crime
No they're not gone, it's just that the (current) method they're showing is that you reset it to a 'new version' of the same item that starts at a higher base attack (30x I think?), and then you relevel it to reach whatever the new cap is, 323 or whatever.
You don't lose the exotic perks permanently, but you do lose every one you bothered to upgrade before until you relevel them.
Trials has been floating around in data file leaks for awhile, running assumption being it's a 'special ticket to enter' pvp mode, and you get booted out if you lose multiple matches. Anyway, point being if you want to compete in any pvp mode with level shit turned on, you're at a disadvantage unless you max your gear.
Why they'd do the full reset method instead of adding a new row of attack upgrades is completely beyond me, but whatever. Anyone with half an ounce of sense could armchair designer up ten solutions that are better than the system they're proposing now.
I can handle some grinding to get the attack value up again, I even expected something of the sort, and it's good that we can keep our exotics around because they have unique gameplay, not just bigger numbers. But resetting them fully just feels punitive, all the other stupid shit aside, it's not fun to level exotics, and the thought of releveling all of my exotics... ugh. Just ugh.
That's completely, totally ignoring the cost and Xur RNG associated with just unlocking the ability to do so.
Yeah, no point in running bounties, saves time. Might try one last hm raid for the helm on my last char that's missing it, but I dont know if I can actually be arsed. This has all been rather deflating.
KennyLinder
Member
Hmm. Also, I assume the new Nightfall high-end is Level 30, which means most peoples 2nd or 3rd characters won't be able to do it. Level 28 is hard enough, especially with fact ammo drops seem like the rarest thing in the world of Destiny (HOW THE FUCK HAS THAT NOT BEEN ADDRESSED YET).
I guess I'll just be upgrading my Ice Breaker as it's the main Exotic weapon I actually use for PvE, a very powerful ranged weapon. I hope my Atheons Epilogue which finally dropped for me this week since the Raid came out will still be decent. Sigh thogh, my Plan C, Mida, Suros, Last Word, Super Good Advice, even Monte Carlo were well on their way to be maxxed. Fuck sake.
I am sure by next week this will all be fine, but fuck me Bungie give with one hand and take away with another in a way i'd never think they would do.
Also, I guess my Arc Light/Beware which I maxed especially for the new Raid was basically, a waste of time.
I guess I'll just be upgrading my Ice Breaker as it's the main Exotic weapon I actually use for PvE, a very powerful ranged weapon. I hope my Atheons Epilogue which finally dropped for me this week since the Raid came out will still be decent. Sigh thogh, my Plan C, Mida, Suros, Last Word, Super Good Advice, even Monte Carlo were well on their way to be maxxed. Fuck sake.
I am sure by next week this will all be fine, but fuck me Bungie give with one hand and take away with another in a way i'd never think they would do.
Also, I guess my Arc Light/Beware which I maxed especially for the new Raid was basically, a waste of time.
Leveling up my Warlock and rewatching the Reef cutscenes just make me sad. They show that Bungie can still tell a pretty decent story. The cutscenes imo are great (though granted some better than others. I think the reef one's are a highlight.)
I just hope they do stuff like this for Dark Below.
I just hope they do stuff like this for Dark Below.
I lost interest about a month ago and I'm about one of the biggest fans of the core gameplay you can find out there, pve and pvp.
But goddamn their design decisions, hotfixes, patches, and communication do everything they possibly can to turn me off the game.
The first Destiny expansion is releasing tuesday, I should be excited and happy! New content for one of my favorite games, yay!
Instead I'm annoyed as hell, and pissed that I came back for the monday patch and made a bunch of decisions I would not have made had they bothered to communicate (there's that word again) upcoming changes.
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