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Destiny |OT11| It goes up to 11!

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Navid

Member
Well, would be nice to have a bone thrown or some kind of unique item. Overall, I just don't want the expansion to equalize everyone and make everything kinda for nothing.
Of course it will have to equalize everyone at some point, otherwise you'll be the lvl [whatever number here] guy by the time the 2nd expansion drops and you wont have anywhere near as many people to run the content with.

Just stating my opinion that there is barely anyway to distinguish between people that put time into the game and the ones that just play here and there.
There is plenty to distinguish between people who ran the events in and out and those who came in later, mainly it comes down to experience... You will have a better understanding of what to expect in the new raid compared to someone doing it for their first time at the same level. Plus you probably have access to a whole bunch of leveled up legendary/exotic weapons for your trouble. (not to mention all the currency you will probably have gathered by now).


My bigger worry is what this new level cap will mean for the current content, will people who don't buy the expansions find it harder and harder to find groups who are running current weekly/nightfall/raid events because they will be around lvl 28-30?
 

EL CUCO

Member
John Cena carried half the roster through Queen missions to get them ready for VoG. A true leader.

p4rNyFR.jpg
 

Strider

Member
All will be ok on my end if I get Word of Crota. Still no FateBringer :( Hoping the HC this time around won't be locked behind a hard drop.
 
New Raid starting at 30 seems fine, you can be rezzed and going by the current raid the hardest enemies will be 31 or 32. However, if you can simply buy all the gear you need to level to and past 30 it really makes these months of raiding a complete slap in the face.

Why bother getting The Dark Below's raid gear if House of Wolves will just do the same and so on, seems like a cheap way to get people to 30+ because they have no real strategy to fix the broken and lame RNG system they based levelling on in the first place.

If expansions are here to serve making previous content and gear obsolete instead of making it better via new upgrade trees, then we are heading down a path of $$$=better gear. I don't like it.

This isn't an MMO, it's an FPS with levelling systems, they need to understand that or go full MMO.
 

benjammin

Member
Which is why IMO Lvl 28 was the best place to start the new raid. Anyone can get there with time, and gives the 30s a leg up in terms of difficulty. And then everyone needs the new raid gear anyway.

Agreed. They should have kept the 4 level difference like the VoG. Hopefully they aren't making it a level 30 minimum to artificially increase the difficulty, or to force people into replaying the dlc story content over and over to grind out level 30 gear through the new vendor.
 

CLBridges

Member
I had fun getting my two characters up to 30, one through VOG and the other through IB. I honestly don't care if TDB introduces a way for everyone to get to 30 overnight, to me that doesn't diminish the fun I had along the way and the excitement of getting those past loot roles. The more people that get to 30, the better, I plan on playing this game and its future content for the long haul and the more people online, the better the experience IMO.

Different ways to progress is always good IMO, the end result is basically, everyone wants to at least be able to enter the new raids when they drop. And, considering this isn't an MMO, Bungie is doing the right thing by providing those who buy the DLC alternate routes to achieve leveling to reach that content.
 
No one has filled up at all. We're in here and my friend is trying for see if he can glitch him off a ledge. Lol

Haha awesome, both of you are 29? I'm 29 on the character I need to do Atheon on.

Anyone want to join us? Looking for 3 more players, level 30s as we have 3 29s currently.
 

Deku Tree

Member
New Raid starting at 30 seems fine, you can be rezzed and going by the current raid the hardest enemies will be 31 or 32. However, if you can simply buy all the gear you need to level to and past 30 it really makes these months of raiding a complete slap in the face.

Why bother getting The Dark Below's raid gear if House of Wolves will just do the same and so on, seems like a cheap way to get people to 30+ because they have no real strategy to fix the broken and lame RNG system they based levelling on in the first place.

If expansions are here to serve making previous content and gear obsolete instead of making it better via new upgrade trees, then we are heading down a path of $$$=better gear. I don't like it.

This isn't an MMO, it's an FPS with levelling systems, they need to understand that or go full MMO.

I play the content because it's fun not because I am getting ahead. Even though getting ahead is fun. :).

I think they want as many people as possible to buy the latest DLC and that means with each new DLC there will always be a catchup mechanism so that new players or players who haven't played in a while can jump right in to the new content without grinding too far through the old content.
 

hydruxo

Member
Damn...so close to flawless our first attempt. We made it to the jumping puzzle then somebody barely slipped off the ledge. We went ahead and ran through Gatekeepers & Atheon with no problems too.

GG guys. We'll definitely get it done soon.
 
I had fun getting my two characters up to 30, one through VOG and the other through IB. I honestly don't care if TDB introduces a way for everyone to get to 30 overnight, to me that doesn't diminish the fun I had along the way and the excitement of getting those past loot roles. The more people that get to 30, the better, I plan on playing this game and its future content for the long haul and the more people online, the better the experience IMO.

Different ways to progress is always good IMO, the end result is basically, everyone wants to at least be able to enter the new raids when they drop. And, considering this isn't an MMO, Bungie is doing the right thing by providing those who buy the DLC alternate routes to achieve leveling to reach that content.

It's moreso the issue that dedicated players has to deal with a shitty RNG system and now they just let you buy it or whatever. They need to choose to ditch RNG for levelling or keep it RNG and stick to it.

This just shows they are looking to get $$$ to get more players to buy the expansion if the enticement of easy level 30+ gear is there.
 

Mindlog

Member
I gotta admit. Flawless raiding is much more fun than I thought it would be. We didn't manage to clear it today, but the number of times I failed to jump to safety and almost died made me laugh pretty good. Even on the jumping puzzles I 'played it safe' which actually made it a lot more dangerous than I'm used to.

Very fun. Thanks for the runs Flawless GAF.
 
As I changed my answer a little and added more stuff in....

The Destiny "expansions" are a joke and aren't really "expansions" in the mmo sense of the word.

IMHO the light level should not be tied to character level. That shit is just stupid. Character level should go up by 5/10 levels per expansion and then light should be a separate stat for gateway to raiding. The same idea of a gear score as that is what light level is or in WoWs case ilvl stat whereby you can't access said raid until your gear is suitable.

Bungie messed this up by wanting enemies to never be too weak to fight against as per the current system that no matter how high a level you are you still won't do x more damage to x enemy because you're a higher level than them.

Also because of this the actual main stat of your character, it's level, is now based solely on the hands of RNG therfore restricting your access to content, therefore adding yet another grinding mechanism to the system to Artifically increase replayability.

Such a stupid system. I hope people from Bungie read this thread.

You guys ballsed this game up from what it could/should have been to what it now is...
 
Damn...so close to flawless our first attempt. We made it to the jumping puzzle then somebody barely slipped off the ledge. We went ahead and ran through Gatekeepers & Atheon with no problems too.

GG guys. We'll definitely get it done soon.
To be frank, the glitches will happen, majority of the time, when no one dies and you make it to Atheon. Think it has to do with the Atheon patch not loading correctly until someone dies. I mention this before, read the flawless tips in the first post. That will help a lot when you guys make it to Atheon without anyone dieing and encounter the glitches. But good job! Keep at it and you guys will get it very soon.
 
I play the content because it's fun not because I am getting ahead. Even though getting ahead is fun. :).

I think they want as many people as possible to buy the latest DLC and that means with each new DLC there will always be a catchup mechanism so that new players or players who haven't played in a while can jump right in to the new content without grinding too far through the old content.

Of course. Why else would I still be playing, it's been great meeting and playing with people like you!

However, they need to decide to go full RNG for levelling or via vendors once and for all. The back and forth just shows they know the RNG isn't working well to get people to the levels they want so they can sell DLC so they have to implement these methods. Fix the problem, don't just band aid it.
 

Deku Tree

Member
As I changed my answer a little and added more stuff in....

The Destiny "expansions" are a joke and aren't really "expansions" in the mmo sense of the word.

IMHO the light level should not be tied to character level. That shit is just stupid. Character level should go up by 5/10 levels per expansion and then light should be a separate stat.

Bungie messed this up by wanting enemies to never be too weak to fight against as per the current system that no matter how high a level you are you still won't do x more damage to x enemy because you're a higher level than them.

Also because of this the actual main stay of your character, it's level, is now based solely on the hands of RNG therfore restricting your access to content, therefore adding yet another grinding mechanism to the system to Artifically increase replayability.

Such a stupid system. I hope people from Bungie read this thread.

You guys ballsed this game up from what it could/should have been to what it now is...

Well you can get to level 29/30 without RNG now and you'll be able to get to level 31/32 in the DLC without RNG. And you can do everything the game throws at you at level 29 now probably also at level 31 in the DLC so it's not all that Bad. Being level 30 now or 32 in the DLC gives you some cred I guess and makes the hard raid easier. But otherwise I don't see the big problem personally.
 

E92 M3

Member
there aren't level 28 enemies during the Atheon fight...?

I don't enjoy this kind of vertical progression in mmos at all; it's not for me. my version of destiny would never raise the level cap. but this "make numbers go up" is what people want. To be clear, you're saying hitting 30 before the dlc should have given out a unique item that then won't be obtainable for later players?

If someone picks up the dark below and gets from level 20 to 30 in 10 hours you'll have a legitimate gripe. But for people who have been stuck just trying to go from 29 to 30 for over a month, it feels a lot like "the least they can do" to foster access to the new raid.

Remember you'll get to work tirelessly against RNG all over again to get from 31 to 32.

I remember feeling the envy and annoyance of not being able to get to 30 raid after raid, but when I did, it was the best feeling ever; very euphoric. I'd rather have to suffer through RNG, but get a reward that is desired. I place the same value on weapons: I don't like buying stuff from shops. And that stands for all rpgs I play. Dungeon loot should always be the best loot - but I admit Destiny is a bit different. Finally, I do feel that someone can get to 30 in 10 hours from a 20 with the expansion. All in all, it will just make me feel silly for desiring something that will be given a lot more easily later on. Still excited to hop into the raid asap, though.

That's how like every loot based game/MMO with expansions has worked ever as far as I'm aware. That's my experience with WoW anyways.

Just that with Destiny, the "expansions" are a joke and aren't really "expansions" in the mmo sense of the word.

Am also imo, the light level should not be tied to character level. That shit is just stupid.

Charecter level should go up by 5/10 levels per expansion and then light should be a separate stat.

Bungie messed this up by wanting enemies to never be too weak to fight against as per the current system that no matter how high a level you are you still won't do x more damage to x enemy because you're a higher level than them.

Such a stupid system.

Totally agree about the enemies always having a fighting chance. I want to go back to Old Russia and OBLITERATE everything with super powers. To be fair, the Mythoclast did provide that before they nerfed it.

Of course it will have to equalize everyone at some point, otherwise you'll be the lvl [whatever number here] guy by the time the 2nd expansion drops and you wont have anywhere near as many people to run the content with.


There is plenty to distinguish between people who ran the events in and out and those who came in later, mainly it comes down to experience... You will have a better understanding of what to expect in the new raid compared to someone doing it for their first time at the same level. Plus you probably have access to a whole bunch of leveled up legendary/exotic weapons for your trouble. (not to mention all the currency you will probably have gathered by now).


My bigger worry is what this new level cap will mean for the current content, will people who don't buy the expansions find it harder and harder to find groups who are running current weekly/nightfall/raid events because they will be around lvl 28-30?

Well, your point is valid about diluting the player pool for possible partners. Though with that said, there needs to be a way to distinguish a veteran and someone that plays on and off. Having experience and a lot in the vault is all good and everything but not the best reward. I know if I go on WoW there will be some cool looking avatars that are unattainable for anyone not playing hundreds of hours - and that's okay! Maybe Destiny can have something like that one day. I know there are people that play more than me and I wouldn't get mad if they had amazing stuff I couldn't ever get.

When the Mythoclast was first discovered by the community, I was so jealous and almost resigned to the fact that it won't be obtainable for a while. Afterwards I set down and really pushed to get that hard raid done asap - it was great motivation.

New Raid starting at 30 seems fine, you can be rezzed and going by the current raid the hardest enemies will be 31 or 32. However, if you can simply buy all the gear you need to level to and past 30 it really makes these months of raiding a complete slap in the face.

Why bother getting The Dark Below's raid gear if House of Wolves will just do the same and so on, seems like a cheap way to get people to 30+ because they have no real strategy to fix the broken and lame RNG system they based levelling on in the first place.

If expansions are here to serve making previous content and gear obsolete instead of making it better via new upgrade trees, then we are heading down a path of $$$=better gear. I don't like it.

This isn't an MMO, it's an FPS with levelling systems, they need to understand that or go full MMO.

Yes, all they need to do is allow current gear to be upgraded somehow. Just make our progress worthwhile besides early access to raid.
 

arimanius

Member
It's moreso the issue that dedicated players has to deal with a shitty RNG system and now they just let you buy it or whatever. They need to choose to ditch RNG for levelling or keep it RNG and stick to it.

This just shows they are looking to get $$$ to get more players to buy the expansion if the enticement of easy level 30+ gear is there.

They messed up at the beginning for not having a token system for the raid and not having pvp gear (until recently) be able to get you to 30.

Since I haven't raided yet I'm happy they are giving me a chance to get to 30 without raiding. I'm sure it will be a grind because everything in this game is. Just allow me to pvp my way to max level and I'll be happy. Maybe some pvp specific weapons, shaders, and vehicles since their are specific raid ones as well.
 
Big shout out to everyone I was trying flawless with today, it was a tense journey and I thought we might make it but unfortunately it wasn't to be today.

We got caught by the gorgons and killed him, we all made the jumping puzzle too but unfortunately lost a player at the gate keepers.

Hopefully the GAF bros will continue to try and we will make it soon.
 
Got so close on the Flawless attempt. We were spotted by a Gorgon that came out of nowhere. Poor guy was obliterated. Kudos to the team for looking alive and taking the sucker out. Made it to the jumping puzzle and my hands were shaking but we all made it through. Someone died at the Gatekeepers which was really disappointing but it was a great run for a first time group.
 

Hawkian

The Cryptarch's Bane
New Raid starting at 30 seems fine, you can be rezzed and going by the current raid the hardest enemies will be 31 or 32. However, if you can simply buy all the gear you need to level to and past 30 it really makes these months of raiding a complete slap in the face.

Why bother getting The Dark Below's raid gear if House of Wolves will just do the same and so on, seems like a cheap way to get people to 30+ because they have no real strategy to fix the broken and lame RNG system they based levelling on in the first place.
You know what, I wasn't really going to get into this because everyone deserves to vent, but you guys really aren't thinking this through.

Conventional wisdom dictated that the new raid would be 28 versus 30 for reasons of accessibility. This version of doing things is more restrictive, and if not for Luke's comment about an alternate path for gearing up, I'd have had a major problem with the game's apparent longterm approach toward casual and less-intensive players.

If the Normal raid were 28, 28s could have entered confidently and, through luck, received a full set of gear (or all gear minus their exotic slot), and been able to jump "directly" from level 28 to 32 without every having experienced the agonizing "I'm 29 and can't hit 30!!!!" grind for a single moment. That would have been less of a slap in the face?

Leveling all the way up to 29 wasn't a "broken and lame RNG system," it was a concrete token system that allowed for measured progress on any individual play session and as someone who hasn't honestly had good RNG luck in a single game before Destiny gave me my Hawkmoon, I loved it. The concept of getting from 29 to 30 with pure RNG? Hated it, and was in the end very happy for Iron Banner which provided my only route. House of Wolves will again raise the light cap and have new plateaus equivalent to 28-29-30 right now and 30-31-32 come December 9th. This is totally unrelated to how much RNG is required in reaching any particular level (which, again, was zero with regard to 29). While I dislike that they chose a more restrictive barrier of entry to the new raid than I predicted, it's better to allow players to overcome that barrier without RNG than to require it, like you're advocating.

It's not like you're going to hit 32 with vendor gear. Strap back in.
If expansions are here to serve making previous content and gear obsolete instead of making it better via new upgrade trees, then we are heading down a path of $$$=better gear. I don't like it.
We're there. On Dec. 9th, better gear will be available that you have to pay to be able to obtain. If this is not an idea you can reconcile with yourself you definitely should not buy it.

This isn't an MMO, it's an FPS with levelling systems, they need to understand that or go full MMO.
Going full MMO isn't an option :p

Look...

I understand the frustration that people in the minority of players who raided tons and tons of times to get multiple characters to level 30 are experiencing. The idea that anyone out there will be able to hit that same number without putting in the same effort is painful- a twinge, like, ugh, they don't deserve it for that!

But it's illusory. RNG ensures that it's possible for someone to get lucky and get a full set to hit max level in 1 run, just like it's possible to run 50 times without getting the piece that you need. Did that player really deserve it more than someone who has been at 29 since September, couldn't get there from the boots/gloves in Iron Banner, and will be able to hit 30 for the first time come the DLC? Is it possible that maybe the latter person actually deserves the chance for some more concrete progression, especially because it won't get them all the way to the new level cap and they could be stuck, for months, yet again?

It all comes down to this: raising your level number in Destiny is never going to be a deeply compelling and magical experience because making numbers go up isn't what's fun about Destiny.

Think of it this way- if you were that first example dude I mentioned, that got a full raid set running it their first time ever... would you be done? Would you ever run the raid again? If so, stop playing immediately. Chasing numbers can be done more effectively and with Skinneresque rewards on a far more consistent delivery schedule in other games.

If not- if you ran the raid however many times you ran it because you actually had fun in the act of doing it, because you liked hanging out and rolling with your raid group, because you liked helping others to learn and improve as players, because you enjoyed challenging yourself (maybe even not cheesing the bosses every time you had the chance?!)... then Destiny will be rewarding to you for a very long time, regardless of what day your character level became the highest number it could be.
 

gatti-man

Member
New Raid starting at 30 seems fine, you can be rezzed and going by the current raid the hardest enemies will be 31 or 32. However, if you can simply buy all the gear you need to level to and past 30 it really makes these months of raiding a complete slap in the face.

Why bother getting The Dark Below's raid gear if House of Wolves will just do the same and so on, seems like a cheap way to get people to 30+ because they have no real strategy to fix the broken and lame RNG system they based levelling on in the first place.

If expansions are here to serve making previous content and gear obsolete instead of making it better via new upgrade trees, then we are heading down a path of $$$=better gear. I don't like it.

This isn't an MMO, it's an FPS with levelling systems, they need to understand that or go full MMO.

Where will your $$$=better gear even come into play besides iron banner? All other pvp is equalized. Its not unheard of for new content to offer more powerful gear. And you pay for the content not just better gear. How else do you offer people actually playing the game real progression? It makes perfect sense to me. People that dont buy the dlc get left behind but thats because you dont have access to the content which is your choice. They didnt hide it.

There are real benefits to this design. Its a nerf to hardmode raid so people can get their vex mythos. It allows casuals who maybe are still short or lvl 28 a reason to care and have access to the new dlc. It makes the game less grindy to newcomers offering them a way to quickly catch up. Its the correct choice.



Response to long hawkian post

I have 3 lvl 30s and this doesnt bother me one bit. Im lvl 30 now and will progress faster through the new content because of it. I play the game to have fun so if everyone is lvl 30 im still having the same fun i did before.
 

MildSoss

Member
As someone who had to raid 15 times before I even saw a single piece of raid gear welcome this new system. Leaving level progress to pretty much luck just doesn't make for a fun time at all.
 
As someone who had to raid 15 times before I even saw a single piece of raid gear welcome this new system. Leaving level progress to pretty much luck just doesn't make for a fun time at all.

I concur. RNG shouldn't be what determines what level you are. RNG is what makes you level 30. There must be another way
 

GhaleonEB

Member
Is Xur already gone for today? What time does he go away?

My daughter just finished up Tormund's Journal (I think) but needs to see him. Seems like he's gone already.
 
You know what, I wasn't really going to get into this because everyone deserves to vent, but you guys really aren't thinking this through.

Conventional wisdom dictated that the new raid would be 28 versus 30 for reasons of accessibility. This version of doing things is more restrictive, and if not for Luke's comment about an alternate path for gearing up, I'd have had a major problem with the game's apparent longterm approach toward casual and less-intensive players.

If the Normal raid were 28, 28s could have entered confidently and, through luck, received a full set of gear (or all gear minus their exotic slot), and been able to jump "directly" from level 28 to 32 without every having experienced the agonizing "I'm 29 and can't hit 30!!!!" grind for a single moment. That would have been less of a slap in the face?

Leveling all the way up to 29 wasn't a "broken and lame RNG system," it was a concrete token system that allowed for measured progress on any individual play session and as someone who hasn't honestly had good RNG luck in a single game before Destiny gave me my Hawkmoon, I loved it. The concept of getting from 29 to 30 with pure RNG? Hated it, and was in the end very happy for Iron Banner which provided my only route. House of Wolves will again raise the light cap and have new plateaus equivalent to 28-29-30 right now and 30-31-32 come December 9th. This is totally unrelated to how much RNG is required in reaching any particular level (which, again, was zero with regard to 29). While I dislike that they chose a more restrictive barrier of entry to the new raid than I predicted, it's better to allow players to overcome that barrier without RNG than to require it, like you're advocating.

It's not like you're going to hit 32 with vendor gear. Strap back in.

We're there. On Dec. 9th, better gear will be available that you have to pay to be able to obtain. If this is not an idea you can reconcile with yourself you definitely should not buy it.


Going full MMO isn't an option :p

Look...

I understand the frustration that people in the minority of players who raided tons and tons of times to get multiple characters to level 30 are experiencing. The idea that anyone out there will be able to hit that same number without putting in the same effort is painful- a twinge, like, ugh, they don't deserve it for that!

But it's illusory. RNG ensures that it's possible for someone to get lucky and get a full set to hit max level in 1 run, just like it's possible to run 50 times without getting the piece that you need. Did that player really deserve it more than someone who has been at 29 since September, couldn't get there from the boots/gloves in Iron Banner, and will be able to hit 30 for the first time come the DLC? Is it possible that maybe the latter person actually deserves the chance for some more concrete progression, especially because it won't get them all the way to the new level cap and they could be stuck, for months, yet again?

It all comes down to this: raising your level number in Destiny is never going to be a deeply compelling and magical experience because making numbers go up isn't what's fun about Destiny.

Think of it this way- if you were that first example dude I mentioned, that got a full raid set running it their first time ever... would you be done? Would you ever run the raid again? If so, stop playing immediately. Chasing numbers can be done more effectively and with Skinneresque rewards on a far more consistent delivery schedule in other games.

If not- if you ran the raid however many times you ran it because you actually had fun in the act of doing it, because you liked hanging out and rolling with your raid group, because you liked helping others to learn and improve as players, because you enjoyed challenging yourself (maybe even not cheesing the bosses every time you had the chance?!)... then Destiny will be rewarding to you for a very long time, regardless of what day your character level became the highest number it could be.

Why does my post get picked on between all of them! :p

I really don't care, I have all the gear and such and my characters are at or can get to 30 with mats and me not being lazy, the point I am trying to make is that they haven't fixed that problem of one person getting all raid armour in one go versus months of spotty loot drops. They just are providing a band aid that allows them to get people to the level they want for people to want to purchase the DLC. The loot system needs to be fixed, there will always be a weapon or something you may NEVER get your hands on and that just plain sucks.

Bungie needs to ease up on the OCD inducing loot system so people can focus on playing and having fun, not getting bummed out from another poor loot drop they won't have a chance to roll again for another week or being left behind in levels due to RNG, which will continue in TDB because the purchasable gear will only get you to 31.

Really, we can't debate this until we see what tomorrow's patch and TDB bring to us from playing it ourselves. Time will tell.
 
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