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Destiny |OT24| Dances with Wolves
- Thread starter DrDrizzay101
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I have either by Warlock or Titan that needs to do it. PSN = Ikkarus
Eh, unless The Taken King has 20+ Exotic Weapons (which I seriously doubt), leaving current Exotics at year 1 attack levels would be a horrible mistake. Otherwise you'd find yourself with the current 26 Exotic Weapons being outclassed by a newly viable but vastly reduced year 2 tier. That would be a true shame.
I don't really understand why people think Gjallarhorn is seriously broken and should be broken or left behind. Again, outside of doing solo/2man raids or burning Skolas with Solar burn (which won't be a thing anymore) I can't think of any encounter where not having the Horn is even remotely an issue. Or where having it will really change much beyond being a neat rocket launcher.
I also think the problem of Thorn in Trials is way overblown. It's not 90% Thorn, that would be insanity. I've been killed by TLW and Red Death at least as often as Thorn. I do think the gun needs a slight nerf just to raise the skill ceiling required to make it work.
I don't really understand why people think Gjallarhorn is seriously broken and should be broken or left behind. Again, outside of doing solo/2man raids or burning Skolas with Solar burn (which won't be a thing anymore) I can't think of any encounter where not having the Horn is even remotely an issue. Or where having it will really change much beyond being a neat rocket launcher.
I also think the problem of Thorn in Trials is way overblown. It's not 90% Thorn, that would be insanity. I've been killed by TLW and Red Death at least as often as Thorn. I do think the gun needs a slight nerf just to raise the skill ceiling required to make it work.
I get the idea but I really don't want my old weapons that I played forever hoping to get to not mean anything. If they would actually make better weapons I would move on to them but I would always like to have the option of using anything legendary/exotic that I have ever received. That might be a big enough deal to where I don't want to come back. I already feel some shame about how much time I've put in this game so I really wouldn't be cool with it not mattering. Ascending was a huge deal to me.
Also, I really don't see a problem with Gjallahorn. It actually feels special and that's somewhat rare in this game. Thorn isn't that big of a deal to me (although it's one of the few weapons that feels truly special) but I can at least understand those complaints in PVP. I would like all weapon types to be viable.
Something I'm wondering about. That picture of the gun that looks like a bare frame. I wonder if that has something to do with a new Exotic leveling system. I also saw the picture of exotic gauntlets that just say "gauntlets" and look really plain. Maybe exotic armor will work the same way? Those could very well be them hiding what those will be when the expansion actually comes out though, I guess. I hope we really do get ghost shaders. Maybe we are closer to my dream of gun and ship shaders too... or the option to have shaders work with all of your exotics. One day...
Anyway, no mic this morning but I need to run the NF. Anyone want to help? PSN: The_Sacred
Also, I really don't see a problem with Gjallahorn. It actually feels special and that's somewhat rare in this game. Thorn isn't that big of a deal to me (although it's one of the few weapons that feels truly special) but I can at least understand those complaints in PVP. I would like all weapon types to be viable.
Something I'm wondering about. That picture of the gun that looks like a bare frame. I wonder if that has something to do with a new Exotic leveling system. I also saw the picture of exotic gauntlets that just say "gauntlets" and look really plain. Maybe exotic armor will work the same way? Those could very well be them hiding what those will be when the expansion actually comes out though, I guess. I hope we really do get ghost shaders. Maybe we are closer to my dream of gun and ship shaders too... or the option to have shaders work with all of your exotics. One day...
Anyway, no mic this morning but I need to run the NF. Anyone want to help? PSN: The_Sacred
SenatorBot
Member
Exotics are originally pitched by Bungie to be weapons you get to stay with you through the whole saga.
What would be the point of exotics if you threw them away every year? That would be dumb. I can see legendaries going away though.
I've seen about 60% in trials, maybe 40% in IB.
I'd remove sendit and only DoT on crit. Just as powerful in the right hands, without the sniping it can currently do.
Exotics will be carried over anyway. They can't do away with all weapons.
MrGreencastle
Member
I hope they have this planned, but it would be a HUGE missed opportunity not to have weapon and armour upgrading available in the future.
Some system where you could "evolve" the exotics into higher tiers with better stats, a newer look, or something (Like Husk of the Pit > Eidolon > Nechro mechanic, for example). Or maybe fuse two different Exotics together.
Anything, really. We love our gear, the idea that we should just "move on" even to the "better" new stuff is silly.
Also, Vault space, come on Bungie, get with it, please.
I had a similar situation in PoE about an hour ago. Bad actions, not reviving and shooting wildly while ignoring side objectives killing us all and forcing to redo again. I didn't drop out but I was THIS close.
Orthogonal
Member
I am just reading the tea leaves and trying to make sense of DeeJ's comment that we "wouldn't want to be married to the same weapons forever".
There has to be some sort of phase out.
This vault space mess is awful. But yeah, imagine if there were branching paths for perks as you built up the exotic and you had to do the specific bounty correlating with the perk you want. So many options here.
Dot only on crit would be too big of a nerf IMO. The DOT IS thorn. Thorn is annoying, but with shit like shotguns with shot package and melting at midrange in seconds by last word, this provides a nice alternative style. Hell, I've seen last word kill me from across the map which is insane.
Removing send it, or lessening severity of the DOT by range I think is a good idea though. I'd lower the range of a lot of hand cannons in general to be honest.
All exotics should return but I wouldn't mind a revamp of some exotics though, similar to how league of legends will respect a character from time to time
MrGreencastle
Member
New "Progress" tab page with multi-page Quest inventory, 16 bounty slots, and faction rep.
Where the hell is the "Grimoire" tab page, Bungie?
I wonder why there are so many slots for "Quests"? They're a very rarely used mechanic, hopefully Bungie have a lot planned for that. I'd be glad if the exp requirement to get from 20-30 was really high, and something people will be working on for weeks. Having lot's of quests would be cool.
Level 30 "artifact". Not sure what these are for, but they could give interesting PvE stat boosts and what not. Maybe related to Factions, since it's below the class item? You could pick a New Monarchy Artifact and wear whatever class item you want that way, and still level the faction. That said, I really wish the factions had more reason to exist than just leveling them for a chance at a shader or ship. They need to flesh out that system big time.
"Show damage types with L2" is weird, though. I wonder what that means.
Still, early, but it looks like some of the new weapons give you Light. Still requires Level 20 to equip though. That's interesting. Could be placeholder, though - since the weapon Attack is not there.
I wonder if there will be gear that requires level 25 or 30 to equip. That would be cool.
That 3rd perk is interesting, too. I like it.
Looks like it shows you what Level and what Light other players have at a glance now. To me, this speaks to a great emphasis on the Level cap. I would love it if leveling to 30 was a big deal and took a long time, honestly. I wonder if the subclasses would have new abilities for the new levels, too.
On the flipside, although I'll cherish my Fatebringer and Black Hammer forever, I don't see a problem with leaving the Legendary tier weapons and armor capped at year 1 values. The exotics though? C'mon, that's just silly.
A Legendary is basically a generic archetype grouping a random combination of perks from its tree. This is why Red Hand is Fulcrum is Devil You Know assuming you shoot for the same perks. Having these weapons go the way of the dodo would be... whatever, not too important. I'd be able to find the same archetype in new stuff and shoot for the same or perhaps even better perks.
Raid Legendaries sit on a strange land between legendaries and exotics. Sometimes they have perks that don't exist for their class (like Fatebringer having Firefly). Other times they just have an excellent perk combination but nothing unique outside the elemental (like Vision of Confluence, although auto fire used to be). And then there's a few which have an actually unique perk, like Black Hammer's White Nail perk or the Fang's target marking.
What sets the Exotics apart and the reason they shouldn't be left behind is that they all have unique perks. Taking an exotic out of the game means more than a weapon model. Sure, there's tons of guns with Hawkmoon-esque impact/RoF. You can even roll Luck in the Chamber. Never that third bullet. Mark of the Devourer, Monte Carlo Method, Volatile Light, Red Death, String of Curses, Pocket Infinity, Lightning Rounds, Wolfpack Rounds, Prototype Trueseeker...
I would hate for these perks to be lost. Not to mention the armor. Same thing. Legendary stuff is just a random perk combo. Exotics have unique perks. There is no "better" chest piece than Armamentarium. There just isn't any other way to have 2 grenades for a Titan, making that the absolute best in some situations. There's no alternative to Ruin Wings, to Alpha Lupi, to Saint-14, to Glasshouse, because they do things that nothing else in the game will do. Don't Touch Me, Khepri's Sting, Knucklehead Radar, Voidfang Vestments, Nothing Manacles, HotPF, Claws of DA, etc let you do things that are otherwise impossible.
I mean I don't know maybe we see stuff differently but I feel losing these unique abilities would be a terrible blow to the game. You can replace Legendaries easily so they can stay behind. You can't replace Exotics because nothing else does what they do.
A Legendary is basically a generic archetype grouping a random combination of perks from its tree. This is why Red Hand is Fulcrum is Devil You Know assuming you shoot for the same perks. Having these weapons go the way of the dodo would be... whatever, not too important. I'd be able to find the same archetype in new stuff and shoot for the same or perhaps even better perks.
Raid Legendaries sit on a strange land between legendaries and exotics. Sometimes they have perks that don't exist for their class (like Fatebringer having Firefly). Other times they just have an excellent perk combination but nothing unique outside the elemental (like Vision of Confluence, although auto fire used to be). And then there's a few which have an actually unique perk, like Black Hammer's White Nail perk or the Fang's target marking.
What sets the Exotics apart and the reason they shouldn't be left behind is that they all have unique perks. Taking an exotic out of the game means more than a weapon model. Sure, there's tons of guns with Hawkmoon-esque impact/RoF. You can even roll Luck in the Chamber. Never that third bullet. Mark of the Devourer, Monte Carlo Method, Volatile Light, Red Death, String of Curses, Pocket Infinity, Lightning Rounds, Wolfpack Rounds, Prototype Trueseeker...
I would hate for these perks to be lost. Not to mention the armor. Same thing. Legendary stuff is just a random perk combo. Exotics have unique perks. There is no "better" chest piece than Armamentarium. There just isn't any other way to have 2 grenades for a Titan, making that the absolute best in some situations. There's no alternative to Ruin Wings, to Alpha Lupi, to Saint-14, to Glasshouse, because they do things that nothing else in the game will do. Don't Touch Me, Khepri's Sting, Knucklehead Radar, Voidfang Vestments, Nothing Manacles, HotPF, Claws of DA, etc let you do things that are otherwise impossible.
I mean I don't know maybe we see stuff differently but I feel losing these unique abilities would be a terrible blow to the game. You can replace Legendaries easily so they can stay behind. You can't replace Exotics because nothing else does what they do.
Sentinalprimus
Member
Pretty sure that just means it has two requirements, level 20+ having at least 34 light.
Oh yes please I need this.Oh lawd, look at this thing of beauty: Firefly on a Hand Cannon, with a reload speed perk + Army of One. Fatebringer.....has the time come for us to part ways?
Ruthless_Barbarian
Member
With 6 bullets in the mag, I don't think so.
brianjones
Member
Oh lawd, look at this thing of beauty: Firefly on a Hand Cannon, with a reload speed perk + Army of One. Fatebringer.....has the time come for us to part ways?
6 round mag.. no elemental damage?
nah i don't think so
MrGreencastle
Member
I thought that at first, too, but the armor has the same thing:
Like I said, this could be placeholder as there's no Defense stat for armor or Attack for weapons. And the disc/str,int stats are way too low.
Here's the screen of the actual weapon saying 34 Light:
Yeah really hoping for a middle tree perk with Field Scout or something. Lack of elemental damage on the other hand is irrelevant for the overwhelming majority of encounters. Outside of Nightfall and PoE burn rooms, Arc damage on the gun is largely a non-factor. Firefly+Outlaw is what makes Fatebringer, not the element.
El_Fenomeno
Member
Sorry I missed this yet again, the wife arrived from her trip and I just dropped everything.
Jinjo
Member
Lol at Deej not knowing how the fuck to answer what's different about Oryx compared to Crota.
Bungie should really prepare this guy better if he's unable to straight up answer simple questions like this.
Forerunner
Member
That thing is ugly, looks like a taser. Also dat range lol.
The first gauntlets sold had STR and Fallen perk. I gather this week is INT, but what enemy faction is the perk active with?
Dark Orchid
Member
People hiding behind the wall in the Nexus fight. In the weekly. With Grounded on, not even a burn Zzzzzzz.
There was some brief discussion about that earlier in the thread. Think we concluded that they're just dropping Attack Value and opting for much simpler Light level on weapons too. They'll both function the same but without the confusion.
Fallen as well. So there's no reason to keep the STR ones if you buy the INT ones this week. ^^
lazybones18
Banned
Only played one match of Inferno Skirmish, but I like it more than Inferno Clash
The first body shot with Thorn does roughly the same damage as a headshot. Spam some more body shots (fast firing), they are dead and you still have 1/2 a mag, it really doesn't take any skill or accuracy.
DoT doesn't stack and the DoT health regen delay is a weapon in itself. I like the fear with thorn, but I feel its low skill usage needs addressing, not just its range.
Loving the new Skolas (fight is ok, not for bad players, but easy enough for us who play this since day1), as for rewards, can't confirm you theory: we got 1/3 weapon drops, 0/3 ciphers. RNG was good in your runs i guess.
I would love they would increase this, since you can have RNG on the weapon drop + 2nd RNG on the element (arc/void/solar) and a 3rd, even bigger RNG on the 2nd perk (vandal burn ffs!?).
So in theory, if i wanted an arc 6th Dreg promise with stun on Fallen Captains or Fallen dmg boost ... that might take a loooong time, even if A DROP would be 100% on each Skolas kill (but is more 1/5 from my experience).
That kinda sux.
And even if i DO get that drop... it's still worse then a fatebringer....
.. so yeah... Bungie... 2nd perk should be a bonus perk (like VoG items), not a replacement. Fix that, pretty please!!!
Ruthless_Barbarian
Member
You can skip story cutscenes with TKK? I'd pay 40 bucks for that.
Reward head shots with more potent DOTs then. But shooting an enemy, tracking their damage tick numbers, delaying their shield recharge... Those are key elements that make thorn feel exotic and have its own identity. Don't want to limit that for less skilled players. I wouldn't mind a weaker DOT (same duration) for long ranges and body shots
Sentinalprimus
Member
Anyone still need Nightfalls? Wanna do all 3
They're just in a weird design space with this stuff. Gear gives you very specific traits in this game rather most progression loot games that just have very superfluous loot that simply exists as a "gear check". The only stand out really is the diablo/diablo-like game. But in Diablo you just learn to move past gear that isn't good enough anymore (a legendary at Lv 40 will be near useless at 60).
Going back to Destiny, they've gotta decide at times when you just have to move past old equipment, and as I said before, they should. Exotics, however, are the "build around me" weapons. They almost definite your playstyle, to an extent. However, it's not as extreme as key cards in MtG decks or gear in Diablo (it should be, though). Basically what I'm getting at is I have no idea how to solve this problem and their current execution of exotics is incredibly lackluster in many regards. They're much better on the armor side because they can really play around with the perks in that space but the guns are just... different kinds of guns. Gjallarhorn is only good because it's got absurd DPS over every other rocket launcher and dumb amounts of burst damage. It's not that it is in itself unique. And the more unique guns tend to, well, suck shit. No Land Beyond, Hard Light, Dreg's Promise, just to name a few. And Thorn, while a strong weapon, is not strong because of its DoT. It should be, but it's not. When they lean on the really weird perks, they trip over themselves and we just get bad weapons that no one cares about.
Also, they are being too conservative with their exotics. A big problem is just that Destiny is still a shooter and they're just making very standard guns without really experimenting or making crazy stuff that can further create "build around me" weapons such as ones that might be more support focused in different flavors (buffs and debuffs). Lord of Wolves is a cool step in the right direction but we need *waaaaaaaaaaay* more than that.
Honestly, in their current stage, I don't think they need to cling on to these current exotics. Most aren't unique enough or differentiated enough, and when they are they aren't useful. They just end up feeling like different flavors of the same boring set of guns we have now. As I said, in the end, this is still a shooter and they're leaning too hard on that because it's such a limited design space when they're trying to create heavily coordinated objective modes (e.g. Raids). If they start moving exotics into this direction, then they will be worth constantly holding on to but as of now they're just another gun that doesn't need to be carried over.
Can't really say I agree. I wouldn't like Destiny going the Borderlands route of adding batshit insane weapons. I like the fact that there are clearly defined weapon classes, with a little space for crossovers (Mythoclast, Lord of Wolves etc). I feel that sticking to their shooter ground is limiting, sure, but in a good way - it makes the game a coherent and consistent experience from a gameplay standpoint.
As for Exotics being different flavors on the same stuff, well sure I guess. They aren't piano shooters. But there are encounter where having regenerating sniper or shotgun ammo are just what you need. There's exactly one weapon with that perk. If you're fighting an asshole with a fast shield regen, you can use Thorn to leave DoT and delay the shield. Again, 1 weapon can do this. If there's a Specialist modifier and I don't want to run the fight basically without a primary, I can use Universal Remote or the Vex Mythoclast or No Land Beyond. That's it though. Nothing else will do it. Need to recover super up quickly because you'll need it for the next mines phase or whatever? Lucky you've got Bad Juju on hand. Oh shit enemy team is packing all shotguns - I'll grab TLW to counter them when they rush.
It goes on. Exotics are unique enough that, even while being average in most situations, most will have a particular scenario where they shine. I don't want to lose that. It's even worse when considering we'd lose the armor.
Just finished my 3rd and final Skolas run. I only got a one weapon on my 1st run: it was the void Scout Rifle though, so I can't complain...
At this point Gjallarhorn is probably too much the poster weapon of Destiny to get hit with any nerfs directly.
Well first, when I say crazy weapons I don't mean silly and stupid. I mean creative, incentive, and providing actual utility.
Borderlands had the same problem. All the guns felt the same in the end. Nothing unique that really changes your play style significantly.
I need more exotics like Lord of Wolves that pushes you towards different roles and specialties.
Secondly, you're still just thinking from a shooter perspective. Destiny can and should be more than that. They're really close to it but not quite there. I want more utility focused roles. Not just like dps or tank. There are all sorts of buff and debuff avenues they can explore.
Haha, that's cute.
Yeah, and I think it's a good thing in the end: the game needs OP weapons that "breaks" it a little bit. Of course, I was not saying the same thing when I didn't have one, though...
Mass Appeal
Member
Buddy of mine got a ghally tonight from NF. He's at around 300 hours or so played. Here I am going at 800 plus hours without one. RNG gonna RNG I guess :-/
I finally have one now and still think it's a burden on the game in some ways. I want it nerfed into the ground and force them to build less dumb dps race encounters.
Being able to DPS a boss from 100-0 before the first mechanic goes out isn't a DPS race encounter but a poorly designed one.
Oh I can also agree with this feeling, especially the encounters relying too much on pure dps.
I'm not so much defending the Horn as the concept of having a few select weapons that are so good you actually are happy when getting them -- contrasting with 75% of the exotic weapons in the game.
But yeah, we need more fights like the templar or atheon in the game.
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