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[lt519]

I just want there to be more variety in PvP when it comes to weapons. Every match I get in people just use the same guns. You can pretty much just tell what everybody is going to be using before the match even starts. I just hate it.

It's gotten better now that some people are finding Pulse Rifles useful. I'd like to see Scout Rifles and Auto Rifles useful again but it'd be unfortunate for them to get a buff and then become OP. It's a ridiculously hard problem to solve. Buffing other weapons risks the game becoming a 2 hit kill fest, but nerfing weapons like the Fusion Rifle can make them completely useless. I don't envy their position in having to balance the game. Ultimately though I find most matches (besides ToO) come down to good use of Supers and coordination, regardless of weapon.

In IB you'd steam roll a team if they all use Thorns if you thought about your loadout. That's not OP.

I'd rather face a Thorn than a Last Word.

Someone agrees with me!

This just proves that Bungie is terrible at balancing. Their main problem is that they're trying to balance both pve and pvp with the same numbers. That doesn't work.

They need to balance them sperately.

Can't be said enough. However, I fear it turning into such a balanced game that it's just another Halo or COD. The unbalancing can be very fun as long as a weapon can always be trumped by another. I wouldn't want to see every weapon have the same TTK.

 

[silver.tongue]

I hope you all realize that by nerfing the Thorn you're just inviting the next top tier gun to take it's place.

If you didn't see 50% Thorn, it would be 50% TLW or 50% Hawkmoon.

Same problem when SUROS was king.

I'd rather face a Thorn than a Last Word.

Buff No Land Beyond, Bungie!

 

[Hoffelcopter]

I hope you all realize that by nerfing the Thorn you're just inviting the next top tier gun to take it's place.

If you didn't see 50% Thorn, it would be 50% TLW or 50% Hawkmoon.

Same problem when SUROS was king.

I'd rather face a Thorn than a Last Word.

This just proves that Bungie is terrible at balancing. Their main problem is that they're trying to balance both pve and pvp with the same numbers. That doesn't work.

They need to balance them sperately.

 

[xplicitone]

No it means he's gotten 89.1% of all available trophies in all games he's played.

That includes Plat games and 100% games.

Spoiler

Miss you grave. Give us a smoke signal or something about your rehab.

Oops yea that's what I meant -_-
That is insane. Good thing Ori isn't available for PS4. That is one tough 100%

 

[Kyne]

I hope you all realize that by nerfing the Thorn you're just inviting the next top tier gun to take it's place.

If you didn't see 50% Thorn, it would be 50% TLW or 50% Hawkmoon.

Same problem when SUROS was king.

I'd rather face a Thorn than a Last Word.

Unlike Thorn TLW requires a certain amount of skill and Hawkmoon relies on luck.

I'd much rather face the latter two.

Thorn just needs a major range nerf. Everything else is fine.

Edit: and buff autorifles.

 

[EL CUCO]

Thorn shouldnt be 2 shotting people.

TLW shouldn't be 111'ing people while ADS.

 

[PrivateWHudson]

Well, I'd be ok with a nerf to thorn's range. The DoT was already nerfed enough tho.

At close range TLW will kill a Thorn user 90% of the time.

I don't use it myself, but being on the receiving end, it feels like it's a laser beam. It seems to need a wider spread at range, not necessarily an all out range nerf. Maybe have the range drop of sooner, but not as severely so you can hold off TLW users at range, but not have it be sniper like.

 

[silver.tongue]

This just proves that Bungie is terrible at balancing. Their main problem is that they're trying to balance both pve and pvp with the same numbers. That doesn't work.

They need to balance them sperately.

Didn't they do that with Shotguns?

I wonder why they don't just do the same with AR's.

 

[nOoblet16]

I've said this so much, Thorn is a DoT weapon with high RoF and as such should have that high of a base damage.
The base damage needs to be slightly reduced by about 5 points or so and the range ALONG with the accuracy (these are two different stats in destiny) needs to be reduced too.

I understand the hate for Thorn, but it isn't necessarily the best players using it. It's leveling the playing field for less experienced players and I think Bungie is OK with that. The best players snipe, use the Last Word, Messenger, Red Death, etc. If you combine all those Shotguns, since they all serve the same sniping purpose you get 33% of people practically blink shotgunning as their main weapon.

Thorn is annoying, and yes the DOT can be nerfed and the damage not give away position. But it's not an incredibly OP weapon, there are still better choices so if you nerf Thorn what do you do about TLW?

In the end all the players will just gravitate to the next best option and that will be 50% as well. The problem will never be solved, it's inherent in the game, but I'm tired of the moaning about Thorn around here. It's annoying but there are many many ways to outgun a Thorn user. I use Thorn since it's good for my ability level, but if they nerfed it then I'd just use Hawkmoon or TLW. Then people would be bitching about luck in the chamber.

lol
That weapon has zero drawbacks outside of its stupid looking sight.
It has range, RoF, damage (it does 106 on one headshot everytime ! and that's too high for a High RoF weapon), it disorientates the enemy and it has ridiculous aim assist.
It doesn't levels the playing field, a weapon that levels the playing field would be Hawkmoon. More than 50% of the winning team used Thorn....winning team. It isn't a gun that is mostly used by low skilled players.

TLW doesn't need a nerf it just needs fixing so that it doesn't do hip fire damage with ADS and ADS damage with hip fire that consistently.

 

[deadduck]

Trophy: Flawless Trials without exotic weapons

 

[xplicitone]

Thorn shouldnt be 2 shotting people.

TLW shouldn't be 111'ing people while ADS.

Especially from the opposite side of the map.

 

[Kyne]

Thorns is absolutely overpowered and anyone who thinks otherwise is probably an exclusive Thorn user

 

[lt519]

lol

Great counterpoint. Your insights on this board are always amazing.

Thorns is absolutely overpowered and anyone who thinks otherwise is probably an exclusive Thorn user

I don't think anyone is arguing that it's the best option, but there will always be a best option and that best option will always be OP to everyone that gets killed by it. I'd gladly just switch to a Hawkmoon or TLW if they nerf Thorn. It's not going to change anything about how crucible is played.

 

[PuMa]

New crucible mode - no exotics allowed.

 

[noomi]

I don't have a single platinum game... not one. I'm not much of a trophy hunter really.

The only game that ever came close? Destiny, but until I make a warlock and fully level the subclasses.... it won't happen.

 

[Slammin_Hammon]

New crucible mode - no exotics allowed.

This and no supers would be nice. Everyone would use the Messenger though lol.

 

[zewone]

Thorns is absolutely overpowered and anyone who thinks otherwise is probably an exclusive Thorn user

I don't use Thorn often, I prefer TLW or Hopscotch Pilgrim.

I don't really have a problem with it. It's just annoying to see the same weapon so often, but like I mentioned before, if it wasn't the Thorn it would just be the next top tier gun.

 

[EL CUCO]

Especially from the opposite side of the map.

Yup. Removing Send it should help with that.

 

[noomi]

I don't use Thorn often, I prefer TLW or Hopscotch Pilgrim.

I don't really have a problem with it. It's just annoying to see the same weapon so often, but like I mentioned before, if it wasn't the Thorn it would just be the next top tier gun.

After using TLW almost exclusively during every crucible/trials match I have a hard time killing people with anything else.

 

[Simonnnnn]

New crucible mode - no exotics allowed.

Loudouts would look something like this

The Messenger
Felwinters/Matador/Party Crasher
Radegasts/Tomorrows Answer/Jolders/BTRD

 

[Robdraggoo]

Need 2 for ib

After this match

 

[recks]

Why instead of nerfing the good weapons, they don't buff the bad ones?

 

[nOoblet16]

Great counterpoint. Your insights on this board are always amazing.

Always?...Always?
As if you follow my post all the time and as if I do this all the time lol. To be even able to use "always" you would have needed to actually followed my post and if you did that then you'll realise I speak a lot about Crucible, infact I almost only make posts about Crucible and have said out a lot about Thorn and have had this same discussion before multiple times...but since you know what I "always" talk about...you must already know this.

Others have said what I wanted to say but I've written my bit now too.

 

[TheTylerDurden]

I don't use Thorn often, I prefer TLW or Hopscotch Pilgrim.

I don't really have a problem with it. It's just annoying to see the same weapon so often, but like I mentioned before, if it wasn't the Thorn it would just be the next top tier gun.

How long did you have to farm strikes before you got the pilgrim? I see you playing the playlist now and then.

 

[Kyne]

I don't use Thorn often, I prefer TLW or Hopscotch Pilgrim.

I don't really have a problem with it. It's just annoying to see the same weapon so often, but like I mentioned before, if it wasn't the Thorn it would just be the next top tier gun.

I'd rather have to fight two A tier Handcannons than one S tier.

Nerf Thorn range
Nerf shotgun range
Buff autorifles

Boom better crucible.

 

[Simonnnnn]

After using TLW almost exclusively during every crucible/trials match I have a hard time killing people with anything else.

I used TLW exclusively for ages, transitioning from that to Thorn/Hawkmoon has been hard. Well versed in all three now

 

[Nuszka]

I don't have a single platinum game... not one. I'm not much of a trophy hunter really.

The only game that ever came close? Destiny, but until I make a warlock and fully level the subclasses.... it won't happen.

Same here , never understood the point of those gamerscore/trophy collecting. Id rather play the game the way i want it. Black shield and LoW damn.

 

[xplicitone]

HC's are made to be ideal at mid-close range. Not sniper range.

Thorn has the most versatile range, the best Rate of Fire for hand Cannons, insignificant Stability penalty, and topped off with DoT that no other gun has.

 

[Slammin_Hammon]

Why instead of nerfing the good weapons, they don't buff the bad ones?

If Bungie starts buffing everything there will be power creep and time to kill will be even lower. The general sentiment among the community seems to be that the current ttk is good and it would be fine if it was even higher.

 

[nOoblet16]

I don't think anyone is arguing that it's the best option, but there will always be a best option and that best option will always be OP to everyone that gets killed by it. I'd gladly just switch to a Hawkmoon or TLW if they nerf Thorn. It's not going to change anything about how crucible is played.

That's not really how it works. Thorn is OP by almost unanimous consensus, a situation where 3 different people call 3 different weapon OP is different from a situation where 3 different people call one weapon OP. BR are best options in Halo 3..it doesn't means they are OP. If Thorn gets nerfed and TLW gets fixed it will allow 3 HC to be at exactly equal level. If those two get fixed, Auto Rifles get buffed then Suros will come back and while we are at it let's also get rid of bullshit range on shotguns which will only make Crucible more varied and variety helps with respect to balance. The way it should be is that one weapon class should be the dominating class for a specific range, when you do that you avoid having the one weapon to rule them all situation...as something will cancel out.


Rock Paper Scissors...that's the design mentality that leads to avoiding one weapon being too OP.

 

[LiK]

I used TLW exclusively for ages, transitioning from that to Thorn/Hawkmoon has been hard. Well versed in all three now

I learned last night that TLW is a great weapon to use when I'm mad. Gotta be aggro to do well with it lol

 

[zewone]

How long did you have to farm strikes before you got the pilgrim? I see you playing the playlist now and then.

6 strikes.

I did like 20 PoE 28s though with no luck.

The other strikes I may have been doing were the old strikes that drop Vanilla gear.

 

[Namikaze1]

Need 2 for ib

After this match

Me!

 

[deadduck]

I don't have a single platinum game... not one. I'm not much of a trophy hunter really.

The only game that ever came close? Destiny, but until I make a warlock and fully level the subclasses.... it won't happen.

Do it noomi, do it!

 

[Simonnnnn]

I learned last night that TLW is a great weapon to use when I'm mad. Gotta be aggro to do well with it lol

Flying at people with that whilst hip firing makes them flap. Just gotta stay out of shotgun range haha

 

[gutter_trash]

buff Autorifles back to their glory days


don't mess with shotties, the range is bad enough as it is

 

[Kyne]

buff Autorifles back to their glory days


don't mess with shotties, the range is bad enough as it is

Uh

What

 

[firehawk12]

I hope you all realize that by nerfing the Thorn you're just inviting the next top tier gun to take it's place.

If you didn't see 50% Thorn, it would be 50% TLW or 50% Hawkmoon.

Same problem when SUROS was king.

I'd rather face a Thorn than a Last Word.

EDIT: Top of the page

There just aren't enough weapons to make it viable to have different options. You basically have 4 guns to use in PVP.

 

[zewone]

Auto Rifles require 0 skill.

Why do people want them back?

 

[Hoffelcopter]

The Thorn and exotic HCs doesn't really need to be nerfed as hard as Bungie will

Thorn - Decrease range , increase reload times and decrease clip size to around 5.

TLW - Increase recoil during rapid fire shots. Especially when using hip fire and the full auto mechanic.

Hawkmoon - Decrease rate of fire, increase clip size to reduce chances of luck in the chamber.

Shotguns - decrease the effective range of shotguns. Make damage taper off much sooner. Longer range shots will take two, or 3 shots depending on distance. While up close shots still one shot. Or remove range increasing perks from the loot table.

Pulse Rifles are fine in my opinion.

Scout Rifles are fine in my opinion.

Sniper Rifles - remove final round from possible perks. Replace and sniper rifle with final round with a random perk from the pool.

Auto Rifles - very slightly increase precision damage.

Fusion Rifles - slightly increase charge rate times (faster).

Heavy are fine in my opinion.

Small slight changes to encourage people to use weapons their most comfortable with.

 

[LiK]

Auto Rifles require 0 skill.

Why do people want them back?

Disagree, you still need to learn to strafe and aim for the heads to make them effective especially against HCs and Scouts back when I used them. PRs basically act like an alt to ARs now except they have better range than ARs.

 

[zewone]

Thorn - Decrease range , increase reload times and decrease clip size to around 5.

This sounds pretty close to vanilla Thorn which was useless.

 

[gutter_trash]

Uh

What

why nerf shotties? their range are utter shit. They are useless outside of arm's length

Auto Rifles require 0 skill.

Why do people want them back?

because Scout Rifles are boring as fuck and give me hand cramps.

I had to shard my Mida Multitool because I start to hurt bad from that constant Stapler R2 button pressing

 

[firehawk12]

The Thorn and exotic HCs doesn't really need to be nerfed as hard as Bungie will

Thorn - Decrease range , increase reload times and decrease clip size to around 5.

TLW - Increase recoil during rapid fire shots. Especially when using hip fire and the full auto mechanic.

Hawkmoon - Decrease rate of fire, increase clip size to reduce chances of luck in the chamber.

Shotguns - decrease the effective range of shotguns. Make damage taper off much sooner. Longer range shots will take two, or 3 shots depending on distance. While up close shots still one shot.

Pulse Rifles are fine in my opinion.

Scout Rifles are fine in my opinion.

Sniper Rifles - remove final round from possible perks. Replace and sniper rifle with final round with a random perk from the pool.

Auto Rifles - very slightly increase precision damage.

Fusion Rifles - slightly increase charge rate times (faster).

Heavy are fine in my opinion.

Small slight changes to encourage people to use weapons their most comfortable with.

I was going to say that nerfing the exotic HCs would make them even more worthless in PvE, but then I remembered that you should never unequip Gjallarhorn anyway so it doesn't matter. lol

why nerf shotties? their range are utter shit. They are useless outside of arm's length

They're not if you have shot package and accurized ballistics. Which is why there's basically only one shotgun configuration worth using (high impact, high range).

 

[xplicitone]

Thorn nerf:

• Remove Send it
• Decrease DoT from 5 ticks*7 dmg (35) to something like 3 ticks *10dmg (30)

Based on Armor Specs, Health ranges from
191 to 203.

Current: 2* Headshots + DoT:
84 + 84 + (5*7) = 203
Suggestion: Reduced DoT:
84 + 84 + (3*10) = 198 (close enough to the mid armor range)

3* body shots is the same 168 dmg, just 3*56.

This way, if your spec is ~50% armor or less, you wouldn't survive and higher armor players are rewarded with being alive. Right now, regardless of Armor spec, we're all dead and that makes zero sense to me.

 

[Namikaze1]

But Hawkmoon is already at maximum clip size for Handcannons...

 

[recks]

If Bungie starts buffing everything there will be power creep and time to kill will be even lower. The general sentiment among the community seems to be that the current ttk is good and it would be fine if it was even higher.

I don't get it, how buffing the bad weapons messes the TTK? Not saying to buff TLW/Thorn/Hawkmoon

 

[KINGofCRA5H]

Thorn shouldnt be 2 shotting people.

TLW shouldn't be 111'ing people while ADS.

I two shot people with my Hopscotch Pilgrim.

If Thorn/TLW weren't OP we would be complaing about them needing a buff.

 

[Kyoufu]

why nerf shotties? their range are utter shit. They are useless outside of arm's length

Nah.

With Blink you can easily close the gap enough to destroy anyone at a long enough range. It's silly.

 

[Slammin_Hammon]

why nerf shotties? their range are utter shit. They are useless outside of arm's length

Have you tried a Felwinter's, Matador, or party crasher with shot package and range perks? They kill from a good distance.