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Destiny |OT25| The Taken Thread

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D

darthbob

Member
Caja 117 said:
Does anyone here also thinks that Destiny lore is actually interesting and the Story in the game is not bad, just a bit confusing given how missions are structured?
Click to expand...

I like the universe that Bungie has created for Destiny, but it's implementation in the game is mediocre.
 
L

Langy

Member
Anyone up for a run through the Vault and then Crota?

Should really start doing these earlier in the week as the Trials gets all the attention from Friday onwards!

psn is Langoit, will go when we get enough people!
 
X

X-Frame

Member
Datto's video was perfect, and I am very glad that so much of these Crucible issues are being discussed so frequently now. It's time for Bungie to communicate on what their plans are.

It's funny when he mentioned that unless you're PvP loadout is an exotic hand-cannon, a Feltwinter/Matador/Party Crasher-type shotgun with Shot Package & a range boost, and a RL with Grenades & Horseshoes you're putting yourself instantly at a disadvantage.
 
O

Orthogonal

Member
KINGofCRA5H said:
All I know is he is a YouTuber, which is probably why his influence is so loud.
Click to expand...

He has a lot of good content and is usually insightful, but is criticized as being a bit fanboyish or defensive of Bungie during controversy so some people jump on him.

He is very anti-cheese and criticises Strike and Raid design for encouraging it in a lot of cases and a lot of people get upset with him for thinking he is criticising them for cheesing. Has a lot of good ideas to fix things and sometimes patches line up with what he suggested.

Generally thoughtfull commentary but I do think he sometimes misses the point of certain community outrage.
 
K

KINGofCRA5H

Member
I've said it before, and I'll say it again:

As long as Bungie tries to balance PvP and PvE weapons in the same light, there will always be a problem. It's been like this since the game came out. I think by now they realize that in hindsight that might have been a mistake.

You have to give them credit initially, though. Normalizing the damage and defensive ratings in normal Crucible is a great idea on paper. But it doesn't get go much further than that.
 
K

Kyoufu

Member
X-Frame said:
Datto's video was perfect, and I am very glad that so much of these Crucible issues are being discussed so frequently now. It's time for Bungie to communicate on what their plans are.

It's funny when he mentioned that unless you're PvP loadout is an exotic hand-cannon, a Feltwinter/Matador/Party Crasher-type shotgun with Shot Package & a range boost, and a RL with Grenades & Horseshoes you're putting yourself instantly at a disadvantage.
Click to expand...

Put me in the camp that prefers Machine Guns to Rocket Launchers in PVP. Much bigger kill streak potential. RL is probably best for ToO I suppose, but I can't use anything other than MGs in IB.
 
O

ocean

Banned
Caja 117 said:
Im actually going trough every Grimoire card I have so far to do that, I just feel the hate for the Story Destiny gets is unnecessary.
Click to expand...

The thing is, this remarkable and top-notch story is completely absent from the game itself. A player who doesn't hop onto his laptop to read through pages of lore will never know about the experiments going on at the Ishtar Sink and the Vex's terrifying power to simulate reality itself - including recursive simulations of the simulation itself ad infinitum. There is community speculation that a Warmind eventually allowed these simulated scientists to enter the Vex network and eventually seeded the Exo race as a way to counter them.

You can go through every mission, Strike and Raid in the game and never learn the significance of the Hive's swords. How those blades are the exact opposite of guns - unlike guns, they don't damage at a distance. Their violence is intimate and feeds the weapon, sharpening it over time. The overtones of how the sword symbolizes what the Hive are and stand for is poetic and beautiful, but absent from the game.

The entirety of the Vault of Glass' commendable lore is hidden. Kabr the Legionless crafting the Relic out of a Vex's reality-distorting flesh and his own Light. The teammates forever lost to time - with no record of having ever existed. Ensuing paranoia leading to Super Good Advice.

The damn history of the Tower's factions is obscure. For practical purposes, Factions are just different colors and different gear. When you read about their distinct political perspectives, they come to life. Or about Shaxx and Saladin disagreeing at critical times during humanity's struggle to hold the line at the Last City.

It's a damn shame. The lore is there. It's better than the vast majority of games. But when I say it's there, "there" is somewhere else. Ultimately the game's campaign does not live up to the potential of the available lore. It doesn't even come close. It doesn't even try.
 
T

th3dude

Member
My prediction for the Bungie weekly update:

* Reasonable auto rifle PVP buff coming next week.

Then Xur sells SUROS Regime tomorrow.

A man can dream, right?

KINGofCRA5H said:
I've said it before, and I'll say it again:

As long as Bungie tries to balance PvP and PvE weapons in the same light, there will always be a problem. It's been like this since the game came out. I think by now they realize that in hindsight that might have been a mistake.

You have to give them credit initially, though. Normalizing the damage and defensive ratings in normal Crucible is a great idea on paper. But it doesn't get go much further than that.
Click to expand...

This is basically the root of the problem.

Admitting that I have no understanding of Bungie's codebase, it seems conceptually easy to implement separate profiles for weapons for PvE and PvP.
 
P

piratethingy

Self professed bad raider
KINGofCRA5H said:
I've said it before, and I'll say it again:

As long as Bungie tries to balance PvP and PvE weapons in the same light, there will always be a problem. It's been like this since the game came out. I think by now they realize that in hindsight that might have been a mistake.

You have to give them credit initially, though. Normalizing the damage and defensive ratings in normal Crucible is a great idea on paper. But it doesn't get go much further than that.
Click to expand...

WoW dealt with this same problem for a long, long time :(
 
O

ocean

Banned
Kyoufu said:
Put me in the camp that prefers Machine Guns to Rocket Launchers in PVP. Much bigger kill streak potential. RL is probably best for ToO I suppose, but I can't use anything other than MGs in IB.
Click to expand...

You used to be able to strategize your heavy ammo usage. Namely, be close to the chest but not pick up the ammo. Wait a minute or two while people run out of rockets and counter supers, then pick up ammo and wreck with machine gun.

Now that heavy ammo despawns and doesn't drop when you kill an enemy who has leftover heavy ammo, grabbing a machine gun is just a huge risk. With a RL you're guaranteed to at least trade most of the time. With a machine gun you'll literally have to hide in a corner for a minute while rockets fly because you'll just get wrecked if you try to engage against a good RL.

That Datto video brought up the range radius for G&H to proc, which is something I hadn't considered. We never miss rockets anymore :p This has also affected the meta a lot. If you actually had to aim rockets, machine guns would be a lot more attractive.
 
K

KINGofCRA5H

Member
ocean said:
The thing is, this remarkable and top-notch story is completely absent from the game itself. A player who doesn't hop onto his laptop to read through pages of lore will never know about the experiments going on at the Ishtar Sink and the Vex's terrifying power to simulate reality itself - including recursive simulations of the simulation itself ad infinitum. There is community speculation that a Warming eventually allowed these simulated scientists to enter the Vex network and eventually seeded the Exo race as a way to counter them.

You can go through every mission, Strike and Raid in the game and never learn the significance of the Hive's swords. How those blades are the exact opposite of guns - unlike guns, they don't damage at a distance. Their violence is intimate and feeds the weapon, sharpening it over time. The overtones of how the sword symbolizes what the Hive are and stand for is poetic and beautiful, but absent from the game.

The entirety of the Vault of Glass' commendable lore is hidden. Kabr the Legionless crafting the Relic out of a Vex's reality-distorting and his own Light. The teammates forever lost to time - with no record of having ever existed. Ensuing paranoia leading to Super Good Advice.

The damn history of the Tower's factions is obscure. For practical purposes, Factions are just different colors and different gear. When you read about their distinct political perspectives, they come to life. Or about Shaxx and Saladin disagreeing at critical times during humanity's struggle to hold the line at the Last City.

It's a damn shame. The lore is there. It's better than the vast majority of games. But when I say it's there, "there" is somewhere else. Ultimately the game's campaign does not live up to the potential of the available lore. It doesn't even come close. It doesn't even try.
Click to expand...

PREACH!
 
M

macewank

Member
Caja 117 said:
Does anyone here also thinks that Destiny lore is actually interesting and the Story in the game is not bad, just a bit confusing given how missions are structured?
Click to expand...

The problem is that the story in the game does very little in the way of actually talking about the big picture lore.

But to your point, yeah the mission structure is a convoluted mess as far as the story is concerned. I felt like I was playing a whole bunch of different plot threads that never really connected to one another.
I know we killed the Vex inside of the Black Garden, but what the hell did any of that have to do with the Hive or Fallen, and why is there a giant ball in the middle of the city

The grimoire cards explain that stuff in more depth, I just wish they'd done a better job of telling the story in the game instead of making me open a website.
 
T

th3dude

Member
Kyoufu said:
Your dream of Xur selling SUROS is my nightmare.
Click to expand...

IZfrVIn.gif
 
O

ocean

Banned
KINGofCRA5H said:
I've said it before, and I'll say it again:

As long as Bungie tries to balance PvP and PvE weapons in the same light, there will always be a problem. It's been like this since the game came out. I think by now they realize that in hindsight that might have been a mistake.

You have to give them credit initially, though. Normalizing the damage and defensive ratings in normal Crucible is a great idea on paper. But it doesn't get go much further than that.
Click to expand...

They're pretty close to balancing primaries. Assuming perfect crits there's only 4 crazy outliers:

The Last Word (0.26s TTK), Thorn (0.36s+DoT), Hawkmoon (0.01/0.40/0.83s depending on luck) and Red Death (0.67s).

Everything else in the game is in the 0.8-1.06s range, with varying accuracy and range tradeoffs to balance them out.Even without taking Exotics out of the game entirely, doing something about the above 4 weapons would literally make every weapon class viable. In a game with hundreds of weapons, it's a shame to let 4 dictate the whole show.

I know there's more to balance than TTK, but we can safely use that as a proxy for the general effectiveness of different weapons. Like an Auto Rifle's 1s TTK assumes full crits, which is far less likely than a triple HS on a hand cannon, which artificially makes it look like they're closer than they would be in real life. But it paints a good picture of how insanely superior the big 4 are, and how comparatively bunched up together everything else is.

Special Weapons are trickier. I remember at launch how the special weapon meta relied heavily on shotgun+melee. Even then people complained, but the one-shot situation now is just bad. To be fair, Fusion Rifles were the original bullshit-range one-shot. They've been taken care of. One-shot shotguns will stick around. They just need to cut the range where this works, Shot Package notwithstanding, in like half.
 
F

FyreWulff

Member
xplicitone said:
That's exactly what my MMO friend's said. They thought it was weird to not have 2 separate sets of weapons/gear for PvE and PvP.
Click to expand...

Bungie has to carefully balance between going full-on MMO and the fact that they're a shooter on console, where MMOs have not really been present.

It'd be like taking someone that plays DOTA and throwing them in the deep end of Tiberian Sun multiplayer.
 
B

blackjaw

Member
piratethingy said:
WoW dealt with this same problem for a long, long time :(
Click to expand...

Yep, i remember when everyone was rocking pve raid gear and weapons in pvp and killing it...pvp people and those that couldn't do high end raids hated it

Then pvp stuff in pve after they introduced "rebalanced" pvp gear

Then they finally rebalanced both desperately and while pve/pvp gear was serviceable it was hardly top tier in its respected categories
 
neoism

neoism

Member
ocean said:
The thing is, this remarkable and top-notch story is completely absent from the game itself. A player who doesn't hop onto his laptop to read through pages of lore will never know about the experiments going on at the Ishtar Sink and the Vex's terrifying power to simulate reality itself - including recursive simulations of the simulation itself ad infinitum. There is community speculation that a Warmind eventually allowed these simulated scientists to enter the Vex network and eventually seeded the Exo race as a way to counter them.

You can go through every mission, Strike and Raid in the game and never learn the significance of the Hive's swords. How those blades are the exact opposite of guns - unlike guns, they don't damage at a distance. Their violence is intimate and feeds the weapon, sharpening it over time. The overtones of how the sword symbolizes what the Hive are and stand for is poetic and beautiful, but absent from the game.

The entirety of the Vault of Glass' commendable lore is hidden. Kabr the Legionless crafting the Relic out of a Vex's reality-distorting flesh and his own Light. The teammates forever lost to time - with no record of having ever existed. Ensuing paranoia leading to Super Good Advice.

The damn history of the Tower's factions is obscure. For practical purposes, Factions are just different colors and different gear. When you read about their distinct political perspectives, they come to life. Or about Shaxx and Saladin disagreeing at critical times during humanity's struggle to hold the line at the Last City.

It's a damn shame. The lore is there. It's better than the vast majority of games. But when I say it's there, "there" is somewhere else. Ultimately the game's campaign does not live up to the potential of the available lore. It doesn't even come close. It doesn't even try.
Click to expand...

most definitely bungle not including a grimoire reader or whatever in game was just fucking lazy and stupid....
 
I

igordennis

Member
ocean said:
The thing is, this remarkable and top-notch story is completely absent from the game itself. A player who doesn't hop onto his laptop to read through pages of lore will never know about the experiments going on at the Ishtar Sink and the Vex's terrifying power to simulate reality itself - including recursive simulations of the simulation itself ad infinitum. There is community speculation that a Warmind eventually allowed these simulated scientists to enter the Vex network and eventually seeded the Exo race as a way to counter them.

You can go through every mission, Strike and Raid in the game and never learn the significance of the Hive's swords. How those blades are the exact opposite of guns - unlike guns, they don't damage at a distance. Their violence is intimate and feeds the weapon, sharpening it over time. The overtones of how the sword symbolizes what the Hive are and stand for is poetic and beautiful, but absent from the game.

The entirety of the Vault of Glass' commendable lore is hidden. Kabr the Legionless crafting the Relic out of a Vex's reality-distorting flesh and his own Light. The teammates forever lost to time - with no record of having ever existed. Ensuing paranoia leading to Super Good Advice.

The damn history of the Tower's factions is obscure. For practical purposes, Factions are just different colors and different gear. When you read about their distinct political perspectives, they come to life. Or about Shaxx and Saladin disagreeing at critical times during humanity's struggle to hold the line at the Last City.

It's a damn shame. The lore is there. It's better than the vast majority of games. But when I say it's there, "there" is somewhere else. Ultimately the game's campaign does not live up to the potential of the available lore. It doesn't even come close. It doesn't even try.
Click to expand...

See, i didnt know any of this. This is pretty cool and i cant understand why there is still no way to read these cards through the game itself. I mean Bungie already fucked up the actual storyline that makes no sense at all but then they've got this great lore and dont even put it in the game? I cant even...
 
N

nOoblet16

Member
ocean said:
The thing is, this remarkable and top-notch story is completely absent from the game itself. A player who doesn't hop onto his laptop to read through pages of lore will never know about the experiments going on at the Ishtar Sink and the Vex's terrifying power to simulate reality itself - including recursive simulations of the simulation itself ad infinitum. There is community speculation that a Warmind eventually allowed these simulated scientists to enter the Vex network and eventually seeded the Exo race as a way to counter them.

You can go through every mission, Strike and Raid in the game and never learn the significance of the Hive's swords. How those blades are the exact opposite of guns - unlike guns, they don't damage at a distance. Their violence is intimate and feeds the weapon, sharpening it over time. The overtones of how the sword symbolizes what the Hive are and stand for is poetic and beautiful, but absent from the game.

The entirety of the Vault of Glass' commendable lore is hidden. Kabr the Legionless crafting the Relic out of a Vex's reality-distorting flesh and his own Light. The teammates forever lost to time - with no record of having ever existed. Ensuing paranoia leading to Super Good Advice.

The damn history of the Tower's factions is obscure. For practical purposes, Factions are just different colors and different gear. When you read about their distinct political perspectives, they come to life. Or about Shaxx and Saladin disagreeing at critical times during humanity's struggle to hold the line at the Last City.

It's a damn shame. The lore is there. It's better than the vast majority of games. But when I say it's there, "there" is somewhere else. Ultimately the game's campaign does not live up to the potential of the available lore. It doesn't even come close. It doesn't even try.
Click to expand...

Well that's because the lore we have so far in the form of Grimoire cards was something that was written near the end the game's development. It was something that was put together using old materials and stuff by a new writer because the original left the game's development (and took his stuff), the game itself was never created with this lore in mind since this lore never existed when the game was being made.
 
O

Orochinagis

Member
xplicitone said:
That's exactly what my MMO friend's said. They thought it was weird to not have 2 separate sets of weapons/gear for PvE and PvP.
Click to expand...

Thats what I always said, decreasing PVE gear in PVP and Decreasing PVP gear in PVE mechanics.

It is weird to have elemental PVP weapons, I know its for PVP players to use it in PVE but its kinda useless. I wish Bungie just forced PVP gear like they did in ToO. We have two PVP armor sets with no real unique PVP perks
 
K

KINGofCRA5H

Member
nOoblet16 said:
Well that's because the lore we have so far in the form of Grimoire cards was something that was written near the end the game's development. It was something that was put together using old materials and stuff by a new writer because the original left the game's development (and took his stuff), the game itself was never created with this lore in mind since this lore never existed when the game was being made.
Click to expand...

that.... that is even more wtf
 
O

Orthogonal

Member
nOoblet16 said:
Well that's because the lore we have so far in the form of Grimoire cards was something that was written near the end the game's development. It was something that was put together using old materials and stuff by a new writer because the original left the game's development (and took his stuff), the game itself was never created with this lore in mind since this lore never existed when the game was being made.
Click to expand...

Its just another big WTF on what happened with this games development. Lots of talent leaving or being forced out and tons of changes from vidocs a year out. It's a shame, the games legacy outside the hardcore fanbase would be so much better if so many things didn't go wrong.
 
O

Orochinagis

Member
nOoblet16 said:
Well that's because the lore we have so far in the form of Grimoire cards was something that was written near the end the game's development. It was something that was put together using old materials and stuff by a new writer because the original left the game's development (and took his stuff), the game itself was never created with this lore in mind since this lore never existed when the game was being made.
Click to expand...

I want to belive it was a Bungie writer who did the grimoire stuff, sounds a lot from them using nord mithology
 
N

nOoblet16

Member
The change in story near the end of development is the reason why some of the cutscenes/dialogues do not make sense in the game. The traveller was suppose to be evil and so was the speaker
Orochinagis said:
I want to belive it was a Bungie writer who did the grimoire stuff, sounds a lot from them using nord mithology
Click to expand...

It was someone from the outside, think someone said even said freelance lol..might be wrong about that but definitely someone from the outside.
 
I

igordennis

Member
Jesus christ playing against a team with 3 players rocking matador/felwinters in a small map is literally impossible. I gave up. Its fucking bullshit the range on those shotties
 
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