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Destiny |OT25| The Taken Thread

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H

HiredN00bs

Member
Happy Bungie Day, DGAF!

Agent_Tiro said:
what I don't understand is how people say Destiny is content light. Even vanilla destiny. My first playthrough of just the "story" missions and the strikes took me about 10-12 hours.

Roughly twice as long as any Call of Duty game. EVER.

So not even counting any of the end game content it's already on par with most other games. it just feels light on content because of how much you had to run the same content every week / day.
Click to expand...
The more I play the game, the more I realize that some of the things that are head-scratchers—like plopping you in public space A, only to have you travel to C via B to start the mission encounters—were part of the overarching design of the "shared world". So for example, to make the matchmade public spaces active, you have to constantly route players through them.
 
A

AppleSeason

Member
I've been looking a few threads. The slot machine theory, the addiction with loots and obtaining rare stuff...

I must be the exception... Sure, it is cool when you get new stuff at the end of mission roulette, but I don't care that much. I've been hoping for new stuff because I actually needed it to advance. Right now that I am fully equipped with legendary armor including one exit and at least two decent weapons, enough to keep me playing? Not even caring one bit. I've always hated collect-a-tons.

My biggest issue right now with the game is repeating Strikes, mostly because I haven't unlocked or accessed other PvE modes such as Prison of Elders or Trials of Osiris. Replaying the strikes with increased difficulty in the strikes is something I avoid like the plague nowadays, even with the promise that something cool could drop. Just the daily / heroic /nightfall in case I need materials - Which right now I don't.


Destiny Withdrawal has started fading for me. Big chances that I'm going to be extremely lazy for Vault of Glass next weekend. Or Crota's End, which I don't know if it is a decent Raid, but I should be able to do it by now.
 
O

ocean

Banned
BreezyLimbo said:
You know if you're going to call me out, you should remember that I read this thread too. Also, it'd be better to do it in the other thread than to retreat to this thread and practically post 'hey guys look at these guys let's laugh at them lol'.
Click to expand...
I have no intention of calling anyone out specifically and just remarked upon one of the several posts that caught my attention. I did not "retreat" to this thread but rather decided to poke fun at what I feel is a rather silly and obtuse explanation for simple behavior. So while I wouldn't suggest anyone laughing at any fellow poster, I'd feel totally comfortable pointing and saying "lol guys lets laugh at this video".

My major is in Economics with a minor in Psychology. My research on grad school has been on behavioral economics. I'm extremely familiar with the academic literature on non-rational behavior from a business standpoint.
I don't expect you to just take my word for it, because appeals to authority are faulty logic, but I stand to gain nothing from lying here: if some UI tricks and randomized elements were anywhere near as effective as this video suggests, there'd be zero video games doing things differently. I mean really, we wish :p

I have up on discussing this game critically a long time ago. I am well aware of its many shortcomings. Many areas were unpolished or downright mediocre at launch. The promised content underwhelmed and the required grind overwhelmed.

Where I feel an unsubstantiated leap is being made is in assuming that these were conscious decisions made with the intent to manipulate rather than the mistakes of a developer working on an entirely new field for them. They have back pedaled on most of the seriously grindy decisions, following data and feedback on how we play. Now you might go on a tangent and say that they've just adapted the systems just to keep people playing but then you'd have a hard time telling me why that's a bad thing. I'd hate to use a strawman but to suggest that it's malicious to adapt systems to keep people playing would be an indictment on any successful product or service adapting itself to consumer demands. If you have a scientist on board studying what provides satisfaction, then delivering it, and offering customers a reason to keep coming back and give you money....you don't have an evil manipulative scheme. What you have is an attractive product/service (as determined by consumers who reveal their preference via consumption and not via polls or forums) and a good business plan. This is what literally any mass product does.

You can observe the game having little content and disagree with its value proposition. You can look at the DLC and believe that it isn't worth it. But to look at a game short on content and assume it was purposefully made short to make the player base hungry for any future DLC? That's a remarkable claim with zero evidence to back it up. Most players who quit the game so so well before they've run out of "carrots". They just stop having fun. This is fine! And players who have been here since launch probably have absolutely everything they want, but keep playing regardless. This is also fine!

As for feedback loops and pigeon experiments and carrot/stick, there are elements of this in Destiny of course. But to suggest a) it's addictive (big word); and b) the intent is malicious and manipulative, I'm just gonna say the provided analysis falls way below any reasonable standard of demonstration.

Taken as food for thought it's interesting, but name dropping scientific concepts and video cuts of a lab coat type talking about addiction does not constitute anything. And I understand this was just a games journalist doing a video and not a research paper. By the admittedly horrible standards of the gaming press, this was actually not bad. But the video (and previous articles on the subject - not the first guy the Behavioral Scientist caught someone's attention) is, if anything, as manipulative as they suggest the game is by using extremely well documented techniques to sway an opinion (jumbled data, technical terms, authority figures and constant reminders of "I'm not saying ..... But ......").

I digress. I apologize if you felt my comment was somehow an attack on you or anyone else. It was not my intent and if you interpreted it as such, please accept my apologies and the assurance that I meant no disrespect.

In short, it's possible Bungie set out to purposefully create a game engineered to manipulate our brain chemistry to create addiction and keep us hungry for reasons to give Activision money. But there's an enormous burden of proof which hasn't been addressed.

An alternative explanation is that they've studied what gamers like and attempted to create systems that keep players satisfied. This imperfect implementation led to equal parts satisfaction and frustration and they've been working on improving with time as the data and feedback piles up since launch (because millions of players paint a better picture than focus groups or lab pigeons).

I have no inside knowledge of what happens over there. But something I've learned is that, absent compelling evidence suggesting otherwise, companies' behavior is usually better explained by humans messing up than masterminds creating successful Evil Plans.
 
N

Namikaze1

Member
Noomi, if you're reading this, I'm up.

Okay, I'm really half asleep but still up. Also won't be able to use my mic. Don't want to disturb anyone sleeping.
 
O

ocean

Banned
BreezyLimbo said:
Oh, before I'm off for the night ocean, you kinda proved my point because you immediately retreated to this thread in order to reaffirm your own beliefs, as well as seeking to be enabled for your opinion through others congratulating you on rooting out those evil accusers who think Destiny has addictive qualities implanted into it.
Click to expand...
Hey man, really disappointed you feel the need to take it personal. I don't need my beliefs reassured, but judging by the tone in your post you want this to devolve into a sort of conversation I can't indulge an Internet stranger with. You seem like a cool guy, but you sound rather upset and I'd rather we discuss the actual merits of the argument at hand instead of talking about why we post this or that here or there. Come back with a cool head and your old uppercase flair and we can talk Destiny all you want.

I remember a few weeks back you disagreeing with Nami about the Passage Coins update. Telling him he was salty then spoiler tagging that he'd never get to Mercury without being carried. I thought it was a one-off, but you're doing it again. I don't want to suggest you're an asshole because I don't know you, but I'll point out that some care in the tone of your comments directed at other posters would be appreciated.
 
noomi

noomi

Member
Nami and I are looking for a 3rd person to knock out some nightfalls with.

I have an hour before work so whatever we can do in that time frame. Come join us :)

We aren't using mics though, way too early for that :p
 
L

lazybones18

Banned
noomi said:
Nami and I are looking for a 3rd person to knock out some nightfalls with.

I have an hour before work so whatever we can do in that time frame. Come join us :)

We aren't using mics though, way too early for that :p
Click to expand...

count me in. I think you have me on your FL. I know Nami does
 
F

firehawk12

Subete no aware
ocean said:
An alternative explanation is that they've studied what gamers like and attempted to create systems that keep players satisfied. This imperfect implementation led to equal parts satisfaction and frustration and they've been working on improving with time as the data and feedback piles up since launch (because millions of players paint a better picture than focus groups or lab pigeons).

I have no inside knowledge of what happens over there. But something I've learned is that, absent compelling evidence suggesting otherwise, companies' behavior is usually better explained by humans messing up than masterminds creating successful Evil Plans.
Click to expand...
I don't think Bungie is doing anything purposefully malicious. They, like all the companies that make games with compulsion loops, are just drawing on the standards and practices developed over the last decade. I think the strange thing with Destiny is that there is no other way to put money into the game. The only reason why they want to retain you is to get the next expansion - so it's the content that matters, not the compulsion loop/skinner box/whatever. It's not like they gain anything by having you addicted to the game, since they themselves have devalued the disc version of the game with the announced TTK physical release. I just think they're doing what everyone else has done, because they don't really have any new ideas to keep the content worthy of replaying.
 
S

Shito

Member
Variks is selling boots and the RL.
Strength for the warlock, discipline for the other two. All of them have the cabal bonus.
 
B

BreezyLimbo

Banned
ocean said:
I have no intention of calling anyone out specifically and just remarked upon one of the several posts that caught my attention. I did not "retreat" to this thread but rather decided to poke fun at what I feel is a rather silly and obtuse explanation for simple behavior. So while I wouldn't suggest anyone laughing at any fellow poster, I'd feel totally comfortable pointing and saying "lol guys lets laugh at this video".

My major is in Economics with a minor in Psychology. My research on grad school has been on behavioral economics. I'm extremely familiar with the academic literature on non-rational behavior from a business standpoint.
I don't expect you to just take my word for it, because appeals to authority are faulty logic, but I stand to gain nothing from lying here: if some UI tricks and randomized elements were anywhere near as effective as this video suggests, there'd be zero video games doing things differently. I mean really, we wish :p
Click to expand...

No, it's not just the UI tricks or randomized elements. But there is something to be said that Call of Duty popularized the whole 'levelling up in multiplayer to unlock new things' that many, many, many games have started using. Some of these games implant literal gambling mechanics-Battlefield and CoD with the ability to purchase packs of gear. I mean, your whole appeal to authority is meaningless to the conversation.

So we can gather-Yes, randomized elements in gear drops are extremely effective. CoD started doing it after MW2, Battlefield offers Battlepacks, CoD:AW offers their equivalent now with Supply drops, PvZ:GW offers their card packs....I would garner that that these tricks are effective.


Where I feel an unsubstantiated leap is being made is in assuming that these were conscious decisions made with the intent to manipulate rather than the mistakes of a developer working on an entirely new field for them. They have back pedaled on most of the seriously grindy decisions, following data and feedback on how we play. Now you might go on a tangent and say that they've just adapted the systems just to keep people playing but then you'd have a hard time telling me why that's a bad thing. I'd hate to use a strawman but to suggest that it's malicious to adapt systems to keep people playing would be an indictment on any successful product or service adapting itself to consumer demands. If you have a scientist on board studying what provides satisfaction, then delivering it, and offering customers a reason to keep coming back and give you money....you don't have an evil manipulative scheme. What you have is an attractive product/service (as determined by consumers who reveal their preference via consumption and not via polls or forums) and a good business plan. This is what literally any mass product does.
Click to expand...

This is what Destiny does. I can say without a doubt, that vanilla CoD:AW has more content than Vanilla Destiny. You call it an attractive product, me and many others call it a product to continue selling what they dish out. Sure it's innocuous with other games-One Call of Duty game a year, maybe a Batman game every couple of years. The difference is these games feel like complete packages by themselves. Destiny never felt like that. Come TDB, when they tried to make us run around the wheel again so soon, with the reputations and having to grind out exotics again, it was obvious what they were doing.

You can observe the game having little content and disagree with its value proposition. You can look at the DLC and believe that it isn't worth it. But to look at a game short on content and assume it was purposefully made short to make the player base hungry for any future DLC? That's a remarkable claim with zero evidence to back it up. Most players who quit the game so so well before they've run out of "carrots". They just stop having fun. This is fine! And players who have been here since launch probably have absolutely everything they want, but keep playing regardless. This is also fine!
Click to expand...

You accuse me of making remarkable claims and yet you go on to say most players quit the game because they stop having fun. Pot+Kettle etc. Yes, people who've been playing since launch keep playing because of many reasons. Maybe they really enjoy the gunplay, maybe they're a part of the community, or maybe they really want certain gear. How many posts have you seen about people who play for hundreds of hours and still don't have a Gjallahorn or Hawkmoon? Or this or that? I don't assume that it was 'purposely' made short. I look at it and think that something went wrong if that's all they were able to output for the base game.

As for feedback loops and pigeon experiments and carrot/stick, there are elements of this in Destiny of course. But to suggest a) it's addictive (big word); and b) the intent is malicious and manipulative, I'm just gonna say the provided analysis falls way below any reasonable standard of demonstration.
Click to expand...

Oh, it's not addictive? When engrams specifically replicate the same experiment as a pidgeon that keeps tapping a button to see when a piece of meal comes out? Different things, same result. You keep turning in those engrams for that purple or yellow item. Yes, there are addictive elements in the game. Is it malicious and manipulative? Well..Bungie really wants you to continue playing their game. Do they not?

Taken as food for thought it's interesting, but name dropping scientific concepts and video cuts of a lab coat type talking about addiction does not constitute anything. And I understand this was just a games journalist doing a video and not a research paper. By the admittedly horrible standards of the gaming press, this was actually not bad. But the video (and previous articles on the subject - not the first guy the Behavioral Scientist caught someone's attention) is, if anything, as manipulative as they suggest the game is by using extremely well documented techniques to sway an opinion (jumbled data, technical terms, authority figures and constant reminders of "I'm not saying ..... But ......").
Click to expand...

As the series is called, 'The Point', the video is there to align two ideas together and to leave the question to the viewer, 'Well maybe there is a point to this correlation?'. It is not there to say 'THIS IS A GAMBLING MACHINE MADE BY BUNGIE'. It is there to draw parallels between different subjects, to apply them amongst each other, and leave a retrospective question to the viewer. The fact that this flew over your head makes me question whether you understood what the point was.

I digress. I apologize if you felt my comment was somehow an attack on you or anyone else. It was not my intent and if you interpreted it as such, please accept my apologies and the assurance that I meant no disrespect.
Click to expand...

I kept it to the other topic. I didn't retreat into my bubble for affirmation.

In short, it's possible Bungie set out to purposefully create a game engineered to manipulate our brain chemistry to create addiction and keep us hungry for reasons to give Activision money. But there's an enormous burden of proof which hasn't been addressed.
Click to expand...

They have a 10 year plan. Their words, not ours. They want you to keep playing their game and buying their products as they dispense them out. It's that simple. And in order to keep someone interested in their 10 year plan.....hrm, whatever could they possibly do?

An alternative explanation is that they've studied what gamers like and attempted to create systems that keep players satisfied. This imperfect implementation led to equal parts satisfaction and frustration and they've been working on improving with time as the data and feedback piles up since launch (because millions of players paint a better picture than focus groups or lab pigeons).

I have no inside knowledge of what happens over there. But something I've learned is that, absent compelling evidence suggesting otherwise, companies' behavior is usually better explained by humans messing up than masterminds creating successful Evil Plans.
Click to expand...

Nobody has accused Bungie nor activision of having big Evil plans, Well, neither me, the video, nor anyone with any form of serious argument in the other thread. Bungie is and will foremost be a business. They are not your friend. They are there to get your money. In order to do so, they will make some accommodations for you, maybe by saying something like...'We heard your feedback!'. You have a lead designer literally saying you would want to throw money at the screen when you see dancing emoticons. He may have been sarcastic, but there is intent behind that sarcasm, and this was proven when they charged $20 for some cosmetics. Because they know that players who played from the beginning, like you or me, will be most enticed to buy it because the base game offers nothing like it.

srsly tho, don't do me raw next time you disagree with my thoughts. Respond to me directly, take it to a PM, but don't retreat into the thread that I also happen to browse. That's just bad form.(And I'm quite level-headed, actually. Don't mistake my tone for anything else.)
 
H

Hedera

Member
Sleepy Buddha said:
So, B Day today. Still 8 hours to go before I can play...

The weekly report wasn't really clear. Do we get... whatever it is by loging into the game or can it also be via the website? Never really paid much attention to B Day before.
Click to expand...
Sleepy, wannna team up for the NF when you get home ? I won't be able to do them at reset today.
 
F

FyreWulff

Member
Queens Wrath

Earth - Divide

Venus - Ember Caves
Venus - Hall of Whispers

Moon - Archer's Line
Moon - Halls of Wisdom
Moon - Twisted Claws
 
S

Shito

Member
FyreWulff said:
Queens Wrath

Earth - Divide

Venus - Ember Caves
Venus - Hall of Whispers

Moon - Archer's Line
Moon - Halls of Wisdom
Moon - Twisted Claws
Click to expand...
Ok, this is the week I take a look at where those damn chests can be on the divide: I've had enough of never finding them! ^^
 
P

Phaethon0017

Member
MildSoss said:
I love how all those scrubs came running in to cap B after you did all the work.
Click to expand...

Yep, and you were in the back trying to look cool being fashionably late to the after party :p

EJRobinson90 said:
Wow! Funny how everyone runs up to pat you on the back :p
Still a little bit jealous of that Hopscotch Pilgrim though.
Click to expand...

As you should. So many people (mostly snipers) think they can challenge it but once they're hit, it's a trigger pull until they're dead.

Jinjo said:
Why can I never pull off those Fist of Havocs. Mine are more like Unstabie's.

I did dodge a rocket in the air once in Trials by fist of havoc slamming myself down to the ground lol.

Also, I'm pretty jelly of that New Monarchy shader.
Click to expand...

I have had more whiffs than I'd like to admit. I found it's hard to play Void Walker/Striker in 3v3 modes, they're so much better in 6v6.
 
S

Skele7on

Banned
BreezyLimbo said:
No, it's not just the UI tricks or randomized elements. But there is something to be said that Call of Duty popularized the whole 'levelling up in multiplayer to unlock new things' that many, many, many games have started using. Some of these games implant literal gambling mechanics-Battlefield and CoD with the ability to purchase packs of gear. I mean, your whole appeal to authority is meaningless to the conversation.

So we can gather-Yes, randomized elements in gear drops are extremely effective. CoD started doing it after MW2, Battlefield offers Battlepacks, CoD:AW offers their equivalent now with Supply drops, PvZ:GW offers their card packs....I would garner that that these tricks are effective.




This is what Destiny does. I can say without a doubt, that vanilla CoD:AW has more content than Vanilla Destiny. You call it an attractive product, me and many others call it a product to continue selling what they dish out. Sure it's innocuous with other games-One Call of Duty game a year, maybe a Batman game every couple of years. The difference is these games feel like complete packages by themselves. Destiny never felt like that. Come TDB, when they tried to make us run around the wheel again so soon, with the reputations and having to grind out exotics again, it was obvious what they were doing.



You accuse me of making remarkable claims and yet you go on to say most players quit the game because they stop having fun. Pot+Kettle etc. Yes, people who've been playing since launch keep playing because of many reasons. Maybe they really enjoy the gunplay, maybe they're a part of the community, or maybe they really want certain gear. How many posts have you seen about people who play for hundreds of hours and still don't have a Gjallahorn or Hawkmoon? Or this or that? I don't assume that it was 'purposely' made short. I look at it and think that something went wrong if that's all they were able to output for the base game.



Oh, it's not addictive? When engrams specifically replicate the same experiment as a pidgeon that keeps tapping a button to see when a piece of meal comes out? Different things, same result. You keep turning in those engrams for that purple or yellow item. Yes, there are addictive elements in the game. Is it malicious and manipulative? Well..Bungie really wants you to continue playing their game. Do they not?



As the series is called, 'The Point', the video is there to align two ideas together and to leave the question to the viewer, 'Well maybe there is a point to this correlation?'. It is not there to say 'THIS IS A GAMBLING MACHINE MADE BY BUNGIE'. It is there to draw parallels between different subjects, to apply them amongst each other, and leave a retrospective question to the viewer. The fact that this flew over your head makes me question whether you understood what the point was.



I kept it to the other topic. I didn't retreat into my bubble for affirmation.



They have a 10 year plan. Their words, not ours. They want you to keep playing their game and buying their products as they dispense them out. It's that simple. And in order to keep someone interested in their 10 year plan.....hrm, whatever could they possibly do?



Nobody has accused Bungie nor activision of having big Evil plans, Well, neither me, the video, nor anyone with any form of serious argument in the other thread. Bungie is and will foremost be a business. They are not your friend. They are there to get your money. In order to do so, they will make some accommodations for you, maybe by saying something like...'We heard your feedback!'. You have a lead designer literally saying you would want to throw money at the screen when you see dancing emoticons. He may have been sarcastic, but there is intent behind that sarcasm, and this was proven when they charged $20 for some cosmetics. Because they know that players who played from the beginning, like you or me, will be most enticed to buy it because the base game offers nothing like it.

srsly tho, don't do me raw next time you disagree with my thoughts. Respond to me directly, take it to a PM, but don't retreat into the thread that I also happen to browse. That's just bad form.(And I'm quite level-headed, actually. Don't mistake my tone for anything else.)
Click to expand...

cross post from reddit from AGES ago... call yourselves destiny fans.
 
S

Shito

Member
Of course, the first arc burn activity after I get my fatebringer had to have the specialist modifier to make it "not so op"... ^^
Solar on sepiks is going to be really fun; the spider will go down in a matter of seconds.
 
O

ocean

Banned
BreezyLimbo said:
No, it's not just the UI tricks or randomized elements. But there is something to be said that Call of Duty popularized the whole 'levelling up in multiplayer to unlock new things' that many, many, many games have started using. Some of these games implant literal gambling mechanics-Battlefield and CoD with the ability to purchase packs of gear. I mean, your whole appeal to authority is meaningless to the conversation.

So we can gather-Yes, randomized elements in gear drops are extremely effective. CoD started doing it after MW2, Battlefield offers Battlepacks, CoD:AW offers their equivalent now with Supply drops, PvZ:GW offers their card packs....I would garner that that these tricks are effective.




This is what Destiny does. I can say without a doubt, that vanilla CoD:AW has more content than Vanilla Destiny. You call it an attractive product, me and many others call it a product to continue selling what they dish out. Sure it's innocuous with other games-One Call of Duty game a year, maybe a Batman game every couple of years. The difference is these games feel like complete packages by themselves. Destiny never felt like that. Come TDB, when they tried to make us run around the wheel again so soon, with the reputations and having to grind out exotics again, it was obvious what they were doing.



You accuse me of making remarkable claims and yet you go on to say most players quit the game because they stop having fun. Pot+Kettle etc. Yes, people who've been playing since launch keep playing because of many reasons. Maybe they really enjoy the gunplay, maybe they're a part of the community, or maybe they really want certain gear. How many posts have you seen about people who play for hundreds of hours and still don't have a Gjallahorn or Hawkmoon? Or this or that? I don't assume that it was 'purposely' made short. I look at it and think that something went wrong if that's all they were able to output for the base game.



Oh, it's not addictive? When engrams specifically replicate the same experiment as a pidgeon that keeps tapping a button to see when a piece of meal comes out? Different things, same result. You keep turning in those engrams for that purple or yellow item. Yes, there are addictive elements in the game. Is it malicious and manipulative? Well..Bungie really wants you to continue playing their game. Do they not?



As the series is called, 'The Point', the video is there to align two ideas together and to leave the question to the viewer, 'Well maybe there is a point to this correlation?'. It is not there to say 'THIS IS A GAMBLING MACHINE MADE BY BUNGIE'. It is there to draw parallels between different subjects, to apply them amongst each other, and leave a retrospective question to the viewer. The fact that this flew over your head makes me question whether you understood what the point was.



I kept it to the other topic. I didn't retreat into my bubble for affirmation.



They have a 10 year plan. Their words, not ours. They want you to keep playing their game and buying their products as they dispense them out. It's that simple. And in order to keep someone interested in their 10 year plan.....hrm, whatever could they possibly do?



Nobody has accused Bungie nor activision of having big Evil plans, Well, neither me, the video, nor anyone with any form of serious argument in the other thread. Bungie is and will foremost be a business. They are not your friend. They are there to get your money. In order to do so, they will make some accommodations for you, maybe by saying something like...'We heard your feedback!'. You have a lead designer literally saying you would want to throw money at the screen when you see dancing emoticons. He may have been sarcastic, but there is intent behind that sarcasm, and this was proven when they charged $20 for some cosmetics. Because they know that players who played from the beginning, like you or me, will be most enticed to buy it because the base game offers nothing like it.

srsly tho, don't do me raw next time you disagree with my thoughts. Respond to me directly, take it to a PM, but don't retreat into the thread that I also happen to browse. That's just bad form.(And I'm quite level-headed, actually. Don't mistake my tone for anything else.)
Click to expand...
English is not my first language so I'm not familiar with the expression of "doing raw", but it definitely sounds like something I haven't and wouldn't like to do to you.

You keep saying retreat. I can go back to that old thread, start a new one, or call you on Skype. You're making a big deal where there is none. What the hell does a bubble in this OT even mean in the context of making fun of pseudo science being gobbled up in a thread full or people looking to jump on a bandwagon and void of the technical knowledge to assess the unsubstantiated claims of a games journalist? I didn't wanna speak in these terms but that video is ridiculous garbage and would be laughed right out of any academic's desk.

I mean I could comment the entire video for 15 minutes straight with the same response: citation needed.

Listen, I gave you the benefit of the doubt earlier but now you've just confirmed you want to make this conversation combative. You raise interesting, but ultimately failed assumptions but you're not worth this discussion right now. You wanna know how you keep people playing for 10 years? Give them a game they like playing. No amount of hoops will circumvent that requirement.

If you think ________ will stop playing when he gets a Ghallarhorn or Hawkmoon or that he'd never stop playing unt he gets one, or that engrams produce a dopamine release (Jesus run some tests before saying this) because pigeons tap on a screen, or that the fundamentals of behavioral science are sufficiently mature to engineer a game which can addict millions in the span of months, fine.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion I guess :)
 
S

Skele7on

Banned
BreezyLimbo said:
Johns mentioned in the Point video...And yeah. There is no grand conspiracy, not when it's laid out like this.
Click to expand...

I know, I'm just saying this has been known for ages, I admit I'm addicted and I'm fine with that, I mean could be worse right, could be cocaine or something?

Plus I find actually I've limited my playtime a lot recently as other things are coming out. Although I do love plating trials a lot, it feels competitive.

But as soon as I have new and exciting content to play I'll be back, not just for the RNG,
But at the end of the day, it's one of the most mechanically solid shooters I've played for a very long time with a great PVP, (even better once Thorn is nerfed.)
 
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