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Destiny |OT26| Like a Hat

Do you have hard numbers? It's all anecdotal as far as I'm concerned. I have/had 3 or 4 praetorian foils. I ran Vog more than Crota though. Of course with Vog you can run it 6 times a week for the foil, or 3 times with double drops. Crota only drops b hammer on normal so you only have 3 chances.

Foil only drops on hard so I'm pretty sure it has the same 'chance' as BH. As with basically everything I'm this game I don't have any hard numbers.

Edit: Speaks to me on so many levels https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rw2hYU4euLY
 
Lol holy cow that's funny. I saved a bunch of videos from that 16-0 undefeated Salvage streak we went on with Wicked. I can find that match which shows my suicide followed by me spectating Wicked as he fell off right after me.

You don't get to be top 1% in Suicides without some clutch plays like that! :p

Yeah, Wicked cut that part out of the video he sent me. :p
 
It's really hard to get percentages from surveys due to bogus responses, but I believe the best estimates for the Foil put it at 2-5% for VoG, while the Black Hammer is around 15%. The Foil is the hardest item to get from any raid.

You can find some various surveys on reddit, and it looks like the numbers skew a little high for every item, so I am kind of arbitrarily reducing both values.
 
i got two in the past two weeks. apparently my loot table for VoG is now filled.

Have you used it much? Fusion rifles are interesting. No precision damage multiplier, but non-precision damage seems to be pretty high on bosses. I remember people saying it destroys Atheon pretty quickly.
 

GutZ31

Member
Welp, looks like my addiction to Destiny has been cured with these update notes.

Didn't feel like playing at all for the first time in about a year.
 

MechDX

Member
GMnD8wv.jpg

Future War Cult.
 

raindoc

Member
Destiny |OT27| Nerf Herders

Even so, I'm a bit disappointed they finally went that route instead of making encounters less DPS-dependent. The best solution to their Horn problem was always more mechanically complex encounters. They really dropped the ball with Crota and then launched HoW with Solar burn Skolas which exacerbated the LFG elitism they talk about in the update.

Beer in a coffee cup, or liquor of your choice in your coffee.

To all three of you:

"nothing to add"
 
Do you have hard numbers? It's all anecdotal as far as I'm concerned. I have/had 3 or 4 praetorian foils. I ran Vog more than Crota though. Of course with Vog you can run it 6 times a week for the foil, or 3 times with double drops. Crota only drops b hammer on normal so you only have 3 chances.

Foil only drops on Hard. 3 chances for both. I've seen the Foil drop significantly less than BH.
 

SnakeEyes

Banned
Welp, looks like my addiction to Destiny has been cured with these update notes.

Didn't feel like playing at all for the first time in about a year.
Honestly, I kinda agree.

Seems like "Becoming Legend" is no longer a priority at Bungie. Lucky for me I'm one trophy of Guardian Lord; might make Rocket League my new fulltime game :D
 

LiK

Member
Have you used it much? Fusion rifles are interesting. No precision damage multiplier, but non-precision damage seems to be pretty high on bosses. I remember people saying it destroys Atheon pretty quickly.

nah, i sharded one and kept another just cuz it's rare. i hate FRs.
 
With a drop rate of utter shit. A lot of people still don't have it, and you only have 3 chances a week to get it.

I have no idea if the drop rate is worse than other secondary/heavy weapons since we don't know the exact loot tables they use. But two definite problems, related to what you said:

-"smart" loot in Crota's End only tracked IF you got a weapon or armor, not WHAT you got. So you could get 10 Swordbreakers with no improved chance of a Black Hammer

-all 5 secondary and heavy weapons were stuffed into one single drop chance: Normal Crota. Even if you rolled a weapon you had diluted odds for a Hammer, and you couldn't get double drop chances by doing hard mode. Compare that to Atheon where only Epilogue and VoC dropped, or Templar where three weapons plus three armors can drop but at least you get double chances at a Fatebringer by doing Hard (instead of forced to do Normal first).

Bottom line the loot tables have always had problems. Some were fixed in TDB while new ones were introduced :-/
 
Foil only drops on hard so I'm pretty sure it has the same 'chance' as BH. As with basically everything I'm this game I don't have any hard numbers.

Edit: Speaks to me on so many levels https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rw2hYU4euLY

Foil only drops on Hard. 3 chances for both. I've seen the Foil drop significantly less than BH.

I'm sure we won't get hard numbers but I'd wager they are the same. What else drops at that point? Is it oracles? Fact is foil is trash and is only a collected item, b hammer is epic. Both are rare because you only have 3 chances a week. My original post said the drop on b hammer is utter shit. I stand by that. You can add foil to that statement if you want.

Edit: Drizzays right, if you do hard first you have double drop on hard rewards. I've seen a guy get two fatebringers in one drop. By all accounts that's 6 chances a week.
 

Wynnebeck

Banned
WHAT THE FUCK DID BUNGIE DO TO MY GAME!?

- Hard Light buff? Sweet.
- Auto Rifle buff? Sweet.
- Shotgun perk nerf? Awesome.
- Gjallarhorn nerf? Uhh, ok?
- Thorn nerf? Wait guys....
- Hawkmoon nerf? Ok, seriously stop it.
- Ice Breaker nerf? FUCK STOP IT NOW.
- Black Hammer nerf? Ok, I'm done.
 
I have this lame, self-imposed restriction that I keep only one of each type of non-faction legendary and exotic (except the Horn, I'm not crazy). That has, thus far, allowed me to keep my vault relatively clean, and I get to play around with the best weapon distribution while having each character feel uniquely geared.

The upside of this compulsion is that the nerfs won't really impact me on the PvE side of things. Well, unless pulse rifles are the new PvE king since only two can possibly come with solar or void.
 

raindoc

Member
WHAT THE FUCK DID BUNGIE DO TO MY GAME!?

- Hard Light buff? Sweet.
- Auto Rifle buff? Sweet.
- Shotgun perk nerf? Awesome.
- Gjallarhorn nerf? Uhh, ok?
- Thorn nerf? Wait guys....
- Hawkmoon nerf? Ok, seriously stop it.
- Ice Breaker nerf? FUCK STOP IT NOW.
- Black Hammer nerf? Ok, I'm done.
you forgot that they'll cut TLW's range in half.
 
I'm sure we won't get hard numbers but I'd wager they are the same. What else drops at that point? Is it oracles? Fact is foil is trash and is only a collected item, b hammer is epic. Both are rare because you only have 3 chances a week. My original post said the drop on b hammer is utter shit. I stand by that. You can add foil to that statement if you want.

This is such an asinine argument. Asinine.

https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyThe...reddit_loot_table_for_crotas_end_normal_mode/

https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/2tzvx8/crotas_end_hard_mode_reddit_loot_table/

Results put the Black Hammer chances anywhere from 11 to 20%. These likely skew high due to some false positives.

http://imgur.com/ZC6PKKZ

Results put the Foil chances at 6%, which is certainly high as the Foil drops from 'B3' are bogus at the very least.

There is no fucking way the drop rates are the same. None.
 
People constantly cry about the horrible weapon balance, then there's outrage when they fix it. The Black Hammer nerf is the only thing I can think of worth complaining about.

The Gjallarhorn outrage is the worst of all. That thing is dumb. I've had it for a long time and it's boring. It's not fun, it trivializes battles, it keeps you from using other exotics, and it leads to toxicity in the community. You not be expected to have a specific rocket launcher to do any content. It's a crutch and nothing more.

To me, this update shows that the fans of this game will always complain, no matter what.
 
So my opinions on all of the changes:

ARs: Sounds fine, but we'll see how the range is. As long as the tickle isn't happening anymore and they're killing in the same amount of time as everything else, good.
PRs: Sound way too overpowered still. The Low RoF, High Impact class is what needed the nerf, not the middle ones. All this nerf does is stop my Time on Target from melting, Messenger is still going to destroy and will be the new meta. I'd honestly say make Messanger-type PRs take 3 bursts to kill and 2.3 with Headseeker, right now they're ridiculous.
SRs: Still sound garbo, but maybe they'll get better now that Thorn and TLW won't be showing up as much
HCs: All depends on the new falloff and magazine nerf. If they did too much, HCs are back to being beta bad, and that's a damn shame.
Shotguns: GOOOOOOD. GOOOOOOOOOOOOD.
FRs: Gee thanks for nerfing the hell out of my GIVE/Take after I got an almost perfect roll on it. A little worried that Exile's Curse could get out of control fast, but we'll see.
Snipers: They were fine except for Final Round and now Final Round is dead so no problems here.
Rockets: Needed a little more blast radius and a little less G&H radius, so this is fine.
MGs: ???

Hard Light: Love it. I used it a bunch when S U R O S R E G I M E was the top tier and I'm glad to know it doesn't have any falloff now. Contender in Crucible, I think.
Nechrochasm: Depending on how much the magazine was buffed, this thing could be really good now.
TLW: Thing was never supposed to be a sniper and I'm glad to hear it's being turned into a shotgun.
Thorn: Still good in Crucible but not godlike, now has use in PvE.
The hell is a Hawkmoon?
Ice Breaker: Sounds like a PvP nerf that ended up ruining it in PvE. Shame.
NLB: Sounds great.
Black Hammer: I don't like this. I really don't like this, but I understand. It must be annoying to watch someone break your boss encounter by using a Legendary with the power of pre-nerf Pocket Infinity.
LoW: Honestly think they should have increased the radius a bit instead of tripling the effect's power, but whatever.
Gjallarhorn: The most controversial of the changes, but as long as the wolfpack rounds still do about .5 rocket damage, it'll still be good. Just less melty. Knew this was coming because basically right now the strike loadout is either Ice Breaker or Gjallarhorn with some good purples to replace them.

Reduced Weapon Stats: Sounds like they might be cutting and changing a few of the weapon classes. Hopefully this means the 3-shotter sniper (20/20 AMR7), the bullet hose (Unwilling Soul), and the Felwinter's Sniper are getting removed.
Stat Perk Tuning Pass: This is the way they're secretly making us move on from our old guns, specifically in Crucible. The old perks will be significantly nerfed now, so only the old HoW weapons and the new TK weapons will be good.
Talent Grid: Okay, good I guess.


Other Things: A bit nervous that they're not addressing Red Death despite it being the third best gun in PvP. They did mention a damage nerf to its class, but it still sounds like it's going to be too good. Time will tell.
 
Smart loot was and still is a sham. lies, all lies

It's true but a huge misnomer. "Smart" loot is just "less dumb than VoG" loot. Some people will always have bad luck until they introduce true streak breaker systems, but #Forever31 never became a meme for good reason.
 
What new guns are we talking about, there are not new primary exotics than those.

This patch won't be out until the DLC, and they've promised tons of new weapon variety. That's not even what I meant, anyways. By nerfing existing weapons, other existing weapons get better. I've had a Hard Light sitting in my vault for like 6 months. It's nice to have a reason to upgrade it now.
 
All the weapons they're nerfing are massively overused.

People are scared to use new guns, that's all it comes down to.

Yeah it's obvious that those weapons are overused. But I don't think anyone is mourning the nerf of the Thorn. Some people use Thorn as a substitute for skill but most people use it because there are so few viable options currently. We all want to use new weapons, bungie just hasn't given us any.
 
This is such an asinine argument. Asinine.

https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyThe...reddit_loot_table_for_crotas_end_normal_mode/

https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/2tzvx8/crotas_end_hard_mode_reddit_loot_table/

Results put the Black Hammer chances anywhere from 11 to 20%. These likely skew high due to some false positives.

http://imgur.com/ZC6PKKZ

Results put the Foil chances at 6%, which is certainly high as the Foil drops from 'B3' are bogus at the very least.

There is no fucking way the drop rates are the same. None.

Your results are from a survey with 228 people. I'd hardly call that substantial evidence.
 
I have a 365 Hezen. Gjalla nerf won't affect me.

This is such an asinine argument. Asinine.

https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyThe...reddit_loot_table_for_crotas_end_normal_mode/

https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/2tzvx8/crotas_end_hard_mode_reddit_loot_table/

Results put the Black Hammer chances anywhere from 11 to 20%. These likely skew high due to some false positives.

http://imgur.com/ZC6PKKZ

Results put the Foil chances at 6%, which is certainly high as the Foil drops from 'B3' are bogus at the very least.

There is no fucking way the drop rates are the same. None.

tumblr_inline_nrgkvp53FG1tvr5fx_500.gif
 

Frenden

Banned
Hopefully this means the 3-shotter sniper (20/20 AMR7), the bullet hose (Unwilling Soul), and the Felwinter's Sniper are getting removed.

The 20/20 takes three hits to body kill... why does that need to be removed from the game? It's tame as hell.

I have one with Ambush, Hidden Hand, Hand-laid, and Unflinching and basically use it for laughs. It's less effective than Prudence or Praedyth's.

It's super unique, though. It's nearly the only thing like it. How is removing a weak gun that's at worst interesting or fun a good thing?
 

Ghazi

Member
So our pre TTK weapons will still be viable in normal Crucible after its release, right? Which is the only reason the Final Round nerf matters, since they've phased that perk out?

Final Round change should've just made it not one hit kill, then it would've been fine.
 

Sofa King

Member
People constantly cry about the horrible weapon balance, then there's outrage when they fix it. The Black Hammer nerf is the only thing I can think of worth complaining about.

The Gjallarhorn outrage is the worst of all. That thing is dumb. I've had it for a long time and it's boring. It's not fun, it trivializes battles, it keeps you from using other exotics, and it leads to toxicity in the community. You not be expected to have a specific rocket launcher to do any content. It's a crutch and nothing more.

To me, this update shows that the fans of this game will always complain, no matter what.

Gally doesn't keep you from using exotics, Bungie does with their one exotic at a time stance. And if you don't think they'll introduce a new "crutch" come September, then you're fooling yourself. Gotta keep everyone chasing something.
 
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