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[OkayRene]

Off-the-wall idea: Bungie should separate nerfs and buffs into separate updates in a tick-tock fashion. And in between see what the data shows about what people gravitate towards. It's probably really hard to get it all "just right" with these large sweeping weapon updates, no matter how large their Sandbox team is.

 

[V_Ben]

Is anybody around to help me get through some of the raids? I've never done then before, light level 30 here. I have a good 6 hours free... Kinda want to get those moments of triumph.

V_Ben on PSN, any help appreciated

 

[Deku Tree]

I think Bungie is forgetting about the traveler storyline.

 

[A_Gorilla]

Except Juju is a pulse and will not be affected by the AR buffs.

Thatsthejoke.gif

 

[SkylineRKR]

Lets buy 1 engram..

oh, shit i'm on my Hunter. Well, The Ram would be nice for my warlock, Rahool.

Guess what lol.

 

[Daemul]

I really feel like the shotgun nerf is enough.

I agree since shotguns were the main problem.

LOL no. The biggest problem with Blink shotgun wasn't just the high impact shotguns, not only is it disorienting as fuck and allows players to get out of situations where they have clearly been outplayed, but it also allows the bullshit combination of Blink+Quickdraw+High Impact Shotguns on Bladedancers, which allows them to blink and then have their shotgun ready to fire by the time they exited blink, allowing for instant kills. This bullshit alone is why Bladedancers are far and away the most used class in competitive play.

Nerfing shotguns alone won't change shit since blink will still let players get in range for instant kills, so Bungie need to sort it out Blinks mechanics, or just outright remove like some Bungie employees want.

I mean, let that sink in guys, you have Bungie employees asking for a skill upgrade to be removed from the game they created, if this doesn't show you how broken it is than I don't know what will.

 

[ich00]

I figured it out!!

The BH nerf is part 2 of thier solution to help us get rid of all the special ammo crates we collected before HoW came out. Part 1 being increaseing the stack size to 100.

See they're just trying to help out inventory management!

 

[nOoblet16]

The inherent problem with blink is that it's a quick move in 3 dimensions in a game that is played by controllers and as such turn speed is limited. Basically the movement is faster than it is possible to track with a controller.

Since they can't remove it from game they need to figure out some way to either reduce it's effectiveness or make it so that the meta related to blink (blink away when outplayed, blink above to shotgun) gets affected somehow.

Wait, how can a blink warlock (voidwalker) get a shield from melee (sunsinger)? I think you're mixing up 2 separate things.

The main issue is blink + shotgun, which is common to both hunters and warlocks. I do agree with you that it should be changed and your suggestion might work.

Oh I mean life steal.

 

[traveler]

Off-the-wall idea: Bungie should separate nerfs and buffs into separate updates in a tick-tock fashion. And in between see what the data shows about what people gravitate towards. It's probably really hard to get it all "just right" with these large sweeping weapon updates, no matter how large their Sandbox team is.

The point is to try and bring all weapons into use, which means the changes aren't as independent as they seem on paper. Fusion rifle viability isn't just related to fusion rifle changes- it's also connected to sniper and, more importantly, shotgun changes. Nerfing the exotic hand cannons without doing anything to the pulse rifles riding right behind them is asking for hopscotch to become the new thorn. (Many have already voiced concern that Red Death will reign supreme after this as it's largely untouched) The viability of an exotic weapon is directly related to the viability of all other exotic weapons.

It's a nice idea to separate all these changes into more minor tweaks over time, in theory, but everything is so dependent on everything else that I don't think it'd work in practice.

 

[E92 M3]

How is it interesting to use? It's possibly the LEAST interesting to use weapon in the game. When used in its optimal scenario, Black hammer was about a) killing stationary/near-stationary bosses super quickly, b) sitting in a safe spot and basically not interacting with the fight, and c) removing the need to reload or get ammo entirely. The point is to sit in one spot and literally aim down your sights until the boss is dead without needing to do anything else.

I used the Black Hammer for yellow bar enemies all the time and it allowed for fun strategies and speed runs.

"Least interesting" lol.

One of the most unique guns in the game.

LOL no. The biggest problem with Blink shotgun wasn't just the high impact shotguns, not only is it disorienting as fuck and allows players to get out of situations where they have clearly been outplayed, but it also allows the bullshit combination of Blink+Quickdraw+High Impact Shotguns on Bladedancers, which allows them to blink and then have their shotgun ready to fire by the time they exited blink, allowing for instant kills. This bullshit alone is why Bladedancers are far and away the most used class in competitive play.

Nerfing shotguns alone won't change shit since blink will still let players get in range for instant kills, so Bungie need to sort it out Blinks mechanics, or just outright remove like some Bungie employees want.

I mean, let that sink in guys, you have Bungie employees asking for a skill upgrade to be removed from the game they created, if this doesn't show you how broken it is than I don't know what will.

Just because something makes you upset doesn't mean it should be removed. Yes, Blink is annoying and I don't like using, but that doesn't mean I want it nerfed.

Overall, these days people love to blame something else for their problems instead of looking to themselves for the error. Just yesterday when Unstable was playing the other team they were bitching about revives and doing it themselves. While, Unstable and team blamed themselves for failed strategies.

If I scrub up a PVP match, I blame myself, not blink or OP Thorn.

 

[Future]

LOL no. The biggest problem with Blink shotgun wasn't just the high impact shotguns, not only is it disorienting as fuck and allows players to get out of situations where they have clearly been outplayed, but it also allows the bullshit combination of Blink+Quickdraw+High Impact Shotguns on Bladedancers, which allows them to blink and then have their shotgun ready to fire by the time they exited blink, allowing for instant kills. This bullshit alone is why Bladedancers are far and away the most used class in competitive play.

Nerfing shotguns alone won't change shit since blink will still let players get in range for instant kills, so Bungie need to sort it out Blinks mechanics, or just outright remove like some Bungie employees want.

I mean, let that sink in guys, you have Bungie employees asking for a skill upgrade to be removed from the game they created, if this doesn't show you how broken it is than I don't know what will.

That's where I'm at. And I like using blink! But the concept is pretty ridiculous for a shooter. Especially since it's use is extremely frequent with minimal penalty

 

[nowai]

Except Juju is a pulse and will not be affected by the AR buffs.

bruuuuh

 

[AaronMT86]

Figure they’ll introduce risk to using blink, e.g taking slightly more damage as you are weakened by fast travel for a few seconds for the effect of teleportation to ware off or something

 

[nOoblet16]

I used the Black Hammer for yellow bar enemies all the time and it allowed for fun strategies and speed runs.

"Least interesting" lol.

One of the most unique guns in the game.



Just because something makes you upset doesn't mean it should be removed. Yes, Blink is annoying and I don't like using, but that doesn't mean I want it nerfed.

Overall, these days people love to blame something else for their problems instead of looking to themselves for the error. Just yesterday when Unstable was playing the other team they were bitching about revives and doing it themselves. While, Unstable and team blamed themselves for failed strategies.

If I scrub up a PVP match, I blame myself, not blink or OP Thorn.

Yea the only legendary with a unique perk (somehow is the last interesting weapon lol.

 

[EL CUCO]

LOL no. The biggest problem with Blink shotgun wasn't just the high impact shotguns, not only is it disorienting as fuck and allows players to get out of situations where they have clearly been outplayed, but it also allows the bullshit combination of Blink+Quickdraw+High Impact Shotguns on Bladedancers, which allows them to blink and then have their shotgun ready to fire by the time they exited blink, allowing for instant kills. This bullshit alone is why Bladedancers are far and away the most used class in competitive play.

Nerfing shotguns alone won't change shit since blink will still let players get in range for instant kills, so Bungie need to sort it out Blinks mechanics, or just outright remove like some Bungie employees want.

I mean, let that sink in guys, you have Bungie employees asking for a skill upgrade to be removed from the game they created, if this doesn't show you how broken it is than I don't know what will.

Thank you.

 

[traveler]

I used the Black Hammer for yellow bar enemies all the time and it allowed for fun strategies and speed runs.

"Least interesting" lol.

One of the most unique guns in the game.

That's cool and all, but the nerf was clearly targeted at its most common use, which is anything but interesting. Your speed runs shouldn't even be hit that hard, since you'll still get the same damage and instant reload while clearing through- you just won't get the ammo, which shouldn't matter since you're actually moving through a level and not sitting in one spot shooting a boss.

Unique in concept =/= interesting in application

 

[Shito]

I don't get the hate for blink: it is part of the game.
If anything, I would argue for giving titans a blink option as well and be done with it...

 

[E92 M3]

That's cool and all, but the nerf was clearly targeted at its most common use, which is anything but interesting. Your speed runs shouldn't even be hit that hard, since you'll still get the same damage and instant reload while clearing through- you just won't get the ammo, which shouldn't matter since you're actually moving through a level and not sitting in one spot shooting a boss.

Unique in concept =/= interesting in application

You'd be surprised how many people have problems chaining bosses - it's a very fun mechanic when done right and is very INTERESTING.

I don't get the hate for blink: it is part of the game.
If anything, I would argue for giving titans a blink option as well and be done with it...

Some people get upset by it so it must be removed.

 

[Future]

You'd be surprised how many people have problems chaining bosses - it's a very fun mechanic when done right and is very INTERESTING.

Change just makes you have to leave and get more ammo once in awhile. That makes it less interesting?

 

[KINGofCRA5H]

I don't get the hate for blink: it is part of the game.
If anything, I would argue for giving titans a blink option as well and be done with it...

Most OP thing in PvP imo. Nothing you can do to counter it.

 

[zeitgeist]

Hey Destiny Gaf, I'm thinking of finally hopping on board and getting the game. Just wondering since there are now 2 big expansions, is there any point to just getting the normal version of the game?

Is there enough active content in the vanilla version to last me a while or is pretty much everything now reliant on the first two expansions?

 

[nowai]

How is it interesting to use? It's possibly the LEAST interesting to use weapon in the game. When used in its optimal scenario, Black hammer was about a) killing stationary/near-stationary bosses super quickly, b) sitting in a safe spot and basically not interacting with the fight, and c) removing the need to reload or get ammo entirely. The point is to sit in one spot and literally aim down your sights until the boss is dead without needing to do anything else.

I use BH all the time when soloing crota's end. It's very nice for taking down the spongebob knights.

 

[LunaticPuma]

Black Hammer nerf is overboard. I barely used it or Icebreaker anyway with my god roll PvE Efrideet's Spear (surplus, field scout, clown cartridge). I can carry 6 + 24 and frequently reload to 8 round clips. Ammo for days and I don't have to hit crits plus it feeds me extra heavy with surplus.

Icebreaker nerf I don't understand. I barely see it used and even then it's mostly PvP.

Hopefully they don't nerf high or low impact pulses too much (hugs my Hopscotch and Praedyth's Timepiece).

 

[EL CUCO]

Just noticed I have an NL Shadow with full auto, hidden hand, and Braced Frame. It was my first HoW drop and reforge.

Time to pull it out for a spin.

 

[Shito]

Most OP thing in PvP imo. Nothing you can do to counter it.

Apart from... blinking? ^^
That's why I would give it to titans as well; that's the real broken thing here.

 

[nOoblet16]

Change just makes you have to leave and get more ammo once in awhile. That makes it less interesting?

Like I said the appeal of blackhammer was preserving ammo count..not repeated unreloaded shots because outside of few exceptions you can very rarely get more than a few hits because of dodgy hitboxes and evasive mechanics enemies shave in place.

The game is very stingy about special ammo by the way, it's why guns like Invective and Icebreaker exist in the first place, if special ammo was super easy to drop these guns would not exist because bungie didn't create them with cheese in mind.

 

[E92 M3]

Change just makes you have to leave and get more ammo once in awhile. That makes it less interesting?

Yeah, because there is no novelty to it. I can just use my ES with surplus (the better PVE perk) and never run out of ammo.

 

[nowai]

Hey Destiny Gaf, I'm thinking of finally hopping on board and getting the game. Just wondering since there are now 2 big expansions, is there any point to just getting the normal version of the game?

Is there enough active content in the vanilla version to last me a while or is pretty much everything now reliant on the first two expansions?

If pre-order the taken king collectors, you can get access to all the current stuff now.

https://store.playstation.com/#!/en...tion/cid=UP0002-BLUS31181_00-B000000000001747

You want all the goodies. Vanilla would lock you out of too much at this point.

 

[Sleepy Buddha]

Cool, me Nooblet and Soul are playing message me when ready.

Hey Ray, you guys still got a spot?

 

[hiryu]

Anyone want to do Skolas in about an 1 or 1.5 hours? I've never done 35 PoE.

 

[firehawk12]

Apart from... blinking? ^^
That's why I would give it to titans as well; that's the real broken thing here.

So 12 people just blinking across the map constantly!

 

[Orochinagis]

I think Bungie is forgetting about the traveler storyline.

Lets just kill the Orix Family instead

 

[E92 M3]

I am happy that the Necrochasm finally gets to shine - love that gun. Coolest aesthetic in the game.

 

[OkayRene]

If pre-order the taken king collectors, you can get access to all the current stuff now.

https://store.playstation.com/#!/en...tion/cid=UP0002-BLUS31181_00-B000000000001747

You want all the goodies. Vanilla would lock you out of too much at this point.

Are you 100% on that? I thought you didn't get access to any of it until 9/15

EDIT: You're right just saw this:

Pre-purchase and immediately begin playing Destiny and both Expansions today!

 

[MostWantedZero]

Anyone doing POE 32/34?

 

[Shito]

So 12 people just blinking across the map constantly!

Yep.
I have no problem with this.

 

[Skele7on]

Will be on soon for some PVP

 

[spyder_ur]

Wait Xur just didn't bring a weapon today? That's kind of funny and ridiculous...is that the first time that's happened?

 

[Future]

I use BH all the time when soloing crota's end. It's very nice for taking down the spongebob knights.

I think this is the key that bungie doesnt really address.

I agree with their sentiments that they want people engaging in the fight and all that. Not camping a mile away killing things for free

At the same time their core loop is play repetitive game content with extremely spongy characters and bosses. Result will always be to find the fastest way to get through the bullshit for the 100th time.

Nerfing Gally and Black Hammer makes sense from a pure design perspective. But the reality is they need to make people WANT to engage fights more often by offering better, less spongy mechanics with better rewards. Just aint worth the risk in a lot of their designs to do other things based on time commitment and potential reward

 

[firehawk12]

Wait Xur just didn't bring a weapon today? That's kind of funny and ridiculous...is that the first time that's happened?

They claim it's a bug.

(It was probably going to be Gjallarhorn)

 

[Homeboyd]

Thatsthejoke.gif

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/_2K2hqyIfSs/hqdefault.jpg[IMG]

bruuuuh[/QUOTE]
I only saw the quote I mentioned. Carry on.

 

[noomi]

They claim it's a bug.

(It was probably going to be Gjallarhorn)

Let the people enjoy a bit before it's nerfed most likely

 

[Poker Face]

I think Bungie is forgetting about the traveler storyline.

Maybe we'll learn about it in Destiny 2!

 

[Future]

Like I said the appeal of blackhammer was preserving ammo count..not repeated unreloaded shots because outside of few exceptions you can very rarely get more than a few hits because of dodgy hitboxes and evasive mechanics enemies shave in place.

The game is very stingy about special ammo by the way, it's why guns like Invective and Icebreaker exist in the first place, if special ammo was super easy to drop these guns would not exist because bungie didn't create them with cheese in mind.

I'd argue the core reason for Ice Breaker popularity is to allow players to remain safe and a mile away, and less to do with stingy ammo. You run out of ammo not because of stingy drops but because you arent collecting any of the ammo if you plant yourself on that pipe in the back to kill that fallen walker or similar. Effect is doubled when "juggler" modifier is on

Part of why no one really mentions Invective even though it has a similar perk: You gotta be close to get any use out of it defeating the purpose

 

[AppleSeason]

To make things clear: These changes are effective now or they will be applied when TTK is out?

 

[Shito]

It's a bit crazy that they still haven't fixed Xûr...

To make things clear: These changes are effective now or they will be applied when TTK is out?

Supposed to hit something like 2 weeks before TTK, with the whole TTK package we'll have to download.

 

[Skele7on]

I think Bungie is forgetting about the traveler storyline.

Guardian "What's that ball in the sky?"

Ghost "SHUT UP JUST KILL STUFF NOW" IF YOU KILL ENOUGH YOU CAN FIND OUT VIA A CARD You do own a PC/Tablet/Smartphone don't you?

On that note how funny would it be to complete a challenge get the card read it to realize that they were a friendly.

 

[Homeboyd]

To make things clear: These changes are effective now or they will be applied when TTK is out?

They are applying them right before TTK.

 

[Raybunny]

Hey Ray, you guys still got a spot?

Ofc! join in.

 

[xplicitone]

I figured it out!!

The BH nerf is part 2 of thier solution to help us get rid of all the special ammo crates we collected before HoW came out. Part 1 being increaseing the stack size to 100.

See they're just trying to help out inventory management!

Hahaha if the synth cooldown was 1 minute, then I'd agree