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Destiny |OT35| Time to Explain At Last

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You're being purposely obtuse, singling out the details and avoid the spirit of my remarks, and I think I'm done with our exchange.

calling somebody obtuse and then ending the conversation to feel like you won isn't really constructive, but okay.

you gave a flawed example, so i responded to it. i didn't really know how to respond to the first part of your post. you said that double-rng "doesn't feel good". okay? there's always been stuff that "doesn't feel good". that's why it does feel good when you finally get what you want.
 

Frenden

Banned
Sorry LT, about to log off....i'm done for the day.

There-Will-Be-Blood-gif.gif


"I'm finished!"
 

E92 M3

Member
Huh that's not true!

I saw unstable decrypt an exotic helm @ light 313 and the helm became a 290 knucklehead radar.

Damn, really? I've been really good at getting 310s after 311 and horrible before lol.

Are people managing to do Oryx more consistently now?



Eeeeh.

Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeh.

This game should have a healthy item choice ecosystem and having one specific weapon mutes that outright (that's what happened with Fatebringer/VoC and Gjallarhorn).

What's the best minimum light to take on Oryx, you think?
 

Ken

Member
not really. people always expect things to be handed to them immediately in this game, even though it's been obvious fromday 1 that this a game where you grind and grind and grind.

there's always been a weird sense of entitlement with the fanbase of this game. it's kind of like the people who rage about some like NTTE being time-gated, even though they didn't know the weapon was in the game an hour earlier. then the same people complain about having nothing to do when they get all the stuff they want.

i just wish people could be more honest about with themselves about this game. you grind the same content over and over to get loot, so you can grind the same stuff at higher levels.

I don't think it's entirely the playerbase's fault for thinking like that when the time to cap light and raid progression cycles are and have been hyper compressed into a matter of hours to a single week. And then there's the whole sharing between characters aspect that can circumvent a lot of intended gear/level progression time.

You end up with a lot of players at the top of the hill but not a lot to show for it which, IMO, is a consequence of poor tuning of boss fights.
 
I don't agree. Those posts may not have been the greatest examples but I think it's OK, important even, to highlight and critique the overall tone in the thread, because it can become a bit pervasive and self-fulfilling at times. The posts that feature complaining are hardly more well thought out or complete.

Just my $.02.

Maybe I'm missing the posts people are referencing here. I haven't been in the thread most of the day. Posts with HM complaints I'm reading (and have been making) discuss issues with the game design. I never like "f this" posts, whether it's "f this HM" or "f this negativity about HM."

I completely agree that people should post reasoned and thoughtful critiques of overall thread tone. My whole initial point is that those posts weren't good examples, like you said. I think we secretly agree ;)
 

zewone

Member
Year 2 needs a Gjallahorn..it needs that carrot that forces you to do every piece of content that gives your a chance to obtain it.
 

Frenden

Banned
Best piece of loot after 1.5 kings falls? God of War shader from the Cryptarch

God of War dropped three times for me year one, but Arctic Proxy and Substance finally dropped for me a few weeks into year two. Those three seem to be the Cryptarch shaders that a lot of folks still don't have.
 

Afrocious

Member
Might as well toss on adderall while you are there. What other stimulates can we use..cocaine?

I think I'm at the point in KF NM where I can do it stoned. I think I'm going to give it a try .

It was a good attempt but you've got to call it sometime.

The lag was too strong.

GG all.

yup. same to ya

You guys can complain in 9 weeks.

Anything before that isn't constructive.

first exotics are time-gated, and now opinions!
 
I'll just throw in my 2 motes.

The end game in The Taken King is missing three crucial things from year one - challenge, gear chase, and payoff.

Challenge: When you hit light 300 (which is not that difficult if you've raided a few times), you are overleveled for everything in the game except the Raid. In Year One, most of the content was at max level, so reaching Level 30 was desirable to benefit from the damage resistance. In Year Two however, Weekly Strikes and Daily story missions are not max level. The only encounter we are leveling up for is Hard Mode. This means that if you do not run the Raid, there is no reason to hit the level cap; consequently, there is no reason to organize a group run the Raid with.

Gear Chase: We used to share checkpoints for weapon drops - that's how coveted weapons from Year One were. Take away their elements and they are still coveted because their base stats were really fucking good - absolutely too good, but that's why the content was replayed as much as it was. Vault of Glass in itself is fun, but it's not 12 months worth of replayability fun without the weapons that were part of it and the stories of obtaining them. Almost every weapon was worth getting from that Raid.

We are running the most difficult content over and over because we want the best guns in the game. We want the best guns to feel powerful and get ready for the next challenge. We celebrate those moments when RNG blesses us with what we want, and throw ourselves into the dark corners of time when it doesn't. That equates to replay value week after week by our own volition - not through arbitrary time gates - and we know that the reward is worth it because the guns are fucking amazing.

Why level up for the most difficult content to run the most difficult content for guns that are not amazing? The satisfaction of beating Oryx dissipates when you open the chest week after week and either find nothing or a weapon that may as well be a doorstopper.

There can still be good weapons in the game without trivializing the encounters - certainly not anymore than they already are by being overleveled. A well designed and mechanically intensive encounter is not going to fall apart when we bring good weapons to the battle. Our good weapons are going to make the encounter more fun because we feel powerful after putting in the work to get there.


Payoff: And that's the root of these problems. The work we put in is disproportionate to what we're getting out of it. Destiny needs something that makes players hungry. It does not need exotic quests that roll out every week for one day only before disappearing again. It does not need lengthy quests that reward the player with a gun they'll use once. And it absolutely does not need less of the materials to upgrade the weapons when we want to try them out.

Variety is an illusion because people will always seek the best guns; Destiny does not need variety, because that gives the player too many choices and consequentially introduces mediocrity when those choices are distilled to be balanced similarly to one another. What is the difference between Vendor weapons and Raid weapons? One looks like a slab of meat, and the other is something you actually use.

Destiny needs direction and it needs focus. Give players builds to chase after and then make the content difficult as fuck so that those builds are way more desirable. I want to see Oryx drop the most bad ass Solar hand cannon, and then level 42 Nightfall with Solar Burn every other week. Boom, now people are replaying the Raid because they want to blow through that Nightfall.

In laymen's terms, removing elemental damage from weapons dropping from the most difficult content in the game (and by extension, making the base stats on those weapons complete trash) is almost single-handedly responsible for the problem with the end game. The other problem is again - the payoff of running the Raid, seeing gear drop that isn't your level, and feeling like you wasted time when you realized you were chasing after something you don't even need.

At the end of the day, we're using guns, not armor. It's more fun to shoot an OP gun than it is to wear stronger armor.

Luke, I've disagreed with your philosophy for Year Two ever since I got the Touch of Malice and realized that it was only worth using for 5 minutes a week. I hope the team reconsiders these decisions, otherwise I can't see Year Two's longevity coming anywhere close to that of Year One. It hasn't for me.

Perhaps we are no longer chasing after max level and strong builds because there is no longer an expansion with more difficult content on the horizon. But I wouldn't imagine that Bungie would want to design the game to encourage players to play it less than they did before, because that's exactly what The Taken King is doing.

Also, I play Halo on Heroic when I want to enjoy myself and Legendary when I want to be a masochist. If you guys think being underleveled in Destiny is bad, play Halo 2 on Legendary.

I basically agree with everything. The only part that's tough is the Elemental Primary portion. I agree that I loved getting those guns because damnit, when a nightfall had a particular burn, you knew exactly what gun or loadout you were going to run with.

Yes we had a problem with Year 1 where elemental primaries basically voided kinetic primaries for all of PvE. But I do not think the problem lies with having elemental primaries, it lies with the primary guns and the encounters/enemies. We just need more viable options and mechanics so that we'd use other guns. Maybe elemental guns have 1 less perk available. Kinetic primaries have 3 perks versus 2 for elemental. And have events where burns don't matter so much so other weapons would be more valuable. Of course there are more options but those are just examples.

I think doing away with elemental primaries was just an easy way out.
 
never seen D-GAF so bummed before. it's not really anger or hate, just bummed. i feel ya.

It's disappointment. Bungie is our child in Kindergarten who just got an F- in having fun. We look at our child, and go 'How is this even possible.' He looks back and he says "i took away the fun from everyone else. It is my fun. They were not having fun the right way." As you stare at your child, you look deep into his eyes, and silently beg him to have fun. He looks at you and says 'No'.
 

Rahvar

Member
I'm not saying that everything is perfect. But if you've done raiding in World of Warcraft you have experienced raiding the same raid for months without getting gear.

Not saying that people should suck it up and expect no loot. But if they give everyone a bunch of loot every raid you lose any incentive tto do it again. In an online game revolving around content and loot there is no way for any developer to keep up with the fanbase.
 

E92 M3

Member
310 with caffeine and no expectations.

Lol I'm just feeling "blessed" to be 312 or 313 depending. Damn the RNG in this game.

never seen D-GAF so bummed before. it's not really anger or hate, just bummed. i feel ya.

That's true, I am feeling bummed. It's very annoying to try and climb this power curve when the raid gives you nothing sometimes or bad rolls.

Rather disheartening and worse than forever29 I think. I'd rather get nothing than 300 boots, for instance.

I'm not saying that everything is perfect. But if you've done raiding in World of Warcraft you have experienced raiding the same raid for months without getting gear.

Not saying that people should suck it up and expect no loot. But if they give everyone a bunch of loot every raid you lose any incentive tto do it again. In an online game revolving around content and loot there is no way for any developer to keep up with the fanbase.

Never played WoW and that sounds stupid. Destiny already takes up a lot of time as it is.
 
if you feel bummed out about a video game, maybe it's time to step away and evaluate some things. or play one of the endless amount of other games out there.

or maybe i'm unrealistic for expecting people to be laid back about a video game. it would just be nice if we could keep the miserable circle jerking to things in the world that are actually problems.
 

Avalon304

Member
I think that's the first time I've ever seen someone get literally nothing from th nightfall.


No reward at all? I mean I get nothing but strange coins or three of coins (or a rune that one time) from the Nightfall. Ive decided to stop running the Nightfall because of all the useless coins I get from it... but getting absolutely 0 is just a kick in the teeth.
 
I'm not saying that everything is perfect. But if you've done raiding in World of Warcraft you have experienced raiding the same raid for months without getting gear.

Not saying that people should suck it up and expect no loot. But if they give everyone a bunch of loot every raid you lose any incentive tto do it again. In an online game revolving around content and loot there is no way for any developer to keep up with the fanbase.

Vault of Glass drop rates were horrible. The drops themselves weren't.

That's the difference.
 
my point is that getting over 310 is only relevant compared to other players. you can be 310 for HM, and if going from 310-320 is as hard as everyone thinks it will be, then you won't have to worry about facing many people close to 320 in trials.

Getting over 310 is super duper relevant for HM Oryx which is 320 Light. Being 10 Light down is a roughly 29% penalty, very similar to the 33% of #forever29.

Honestly I'm not super worried about light scaling in Trials. The curve is pretty mild. Somebody getting super lucky with a god roll pulse rifle or sniper drop will be at a bigger advantage than someone who's miraculously 320 with crappy guns. Skill will still be the biggest determining factor.
 

Frenden

Banned
In an online game revolving around content and loot there is no way for any developer to keep up with the fanbase.

I think Bungie has done an admiral job of chasing the fanbase's opinions. It's just that these dark periods between bad changes and good fixes are a real bummer in the interim.

And I'm still salty about hand cannons. :p
 

Afrocious

Member
I'm not saying that everything is perfect. But if you've done raiding in World of Warcraft you have experienced raiding the same raid for months without getting gear.

Not saying that people should suck it up and expect no loot. But if they give everyone a bunch of loot every raid you lose any incentive tto do it again. In an online game revolving around content and loot there is no way for any developer to keep up with the fanbase.

You rolled for gear in WoW or raid leaders used some method of distributing loot. Unless you had a different raid group every time you raided, your odds of getting gear increased each time you raided.
 

inthrall

Member
God of War dropped three times for me year one, but Arctic Proxy and Substance finally dropped for me a few weeks into year two. Those three seem to be the Cryptarch shaders that a lot of folks still don't have.

Yeah definitely, I only had substance twice in Y1, and got the other two this year
 

WipedOut

Member
My take away from HM KF - shit isn't hard, we're just under leveled. I thought Bungie knocked it out of the park with NM, it's fun, once over 300 you feel powerful and the encounters are interesting. HM is cheap. All they really did was raise the level cap and put in few extra enemies. No new mechanics. The only spot done right was with Golgo. Adding a simple little element like the unstable light makes everyone stay on Point and pay a little more attention to detail. We had him down to 25% and lost our gazer, said fuck it and went for it and was able to finish it.
 

spyder_ur

Member
Maybe I'm missing the posts people are referencing here. I haven't been in the thread most of the day. Posts with HM complaints I'm reading (and have been making) discuss issues with the game design. I never like "f this" posts, whether it's "f this HM" or "f this negativity about HM."

I completely agree that people should post reasoned and thoughtful critiques of overall thread tone. My whole initial point is that those posts weren't good examples, like you said. I think we secretly agree ;)

I would never secretly agree with you Drizzay. I would do so right out in the open.


Off topic, or maybe on topic, I got a 314 MG from hard mode. I have a 310 raid MG with better perks. Infuse?
 
For pre TDB players, we're even more sensitive because they made us relevel our exotics. And we had to grind for dozens of hours on each planet for mats. Along with many other things. Not to mention crucible only giving 2 and 3 marks each loss/win. We worked very hard for what we had, only for it to be either nerfed or taken away completely. So since we've been through a lot, I think it makes it even more so that we want to get rewarded with our hard work. Not slapped in the face with a range of light rng where hard modes min is the normal mode's max.
 
I basically agree with everything. The only part that's tough is the Elemental Primary portion. I agree that I loved getting those guns because damnit, when a nightfall had a particular burn, you knew exactly what gun or loadout you were going to run with.

Yes we had a problem with Year 1 where elemental primaries basically voided kinetic primaries for all of PvE. But I do not think the problem lies with having elemental primaries, it lies with the primary guns and the encounters/enemies. We just need more viable options and mechanics so that we'd use other guns. Maybe elemental guns have 1 less perk available. Kinetic primaries have 3 perks versus 2 for elemental. And have events where burns don't matter so much so other weapons would be more valuable. Of course there are more options but those are just examples.

I think doing away with elemental primaries was just an easy way out.

I don't think the game needs another Fatebringer or Gjallarhorn, but it needs to be more challenging and more rewarding with better gear that players will want to use.
 

E92 M3

Member
if you feel bummed out about a video game, maybe it's time to step away and evaluate some things. or play one of the endless amount of other games out there.

or maybe i'm unrealistic for expecting people to be laid back about a video game. it would just be nice if we could keep the miserable circle jerking to things in the world that are actually problems.

Most of us have been playing Destiny for over a year now and want to see this game grow properly.

The investment department and Bungie isn't doing their job well enough if they think having ZERO loot as a reward for killing a boss is ok. Fuck, at least give me motes and strange coins. Having a chest appear and nothing be inside is just asinine.
 

Rahvar

Member
You rolled for gear in WoW or raid leaders used some method of distributing loot. Unless you had a different raid group every time you raided, your odds of getting gear increased each time you raided.

I had literally months of raiding in WoW without the correct items dropping for me. And no, not that I was looking at specific items, there were literally no dropa for my class and spec. I did raid 5 days a week and I've used both a DKP system and a raid leader who distributed loot.

I know Blizzard has made it easier to get loot since, but this was at the height of the game's popularity
 

E92 M3

Member
I had literally months of raiding in WoW without the correct items dropping for me. And no, not that I was looking at specific items, there were literally no dropa for my class and spec. I did raid 5 days a week and I've used both a DKP system and a raid leader who distributed loot.

I know Blizzard has made it easier to get loot since, but this was at the height of the game's popularity

How is that good game design and compatible with real life? Destiny is already a massive time sink.
 
No reward at all? I mean I get nothing but strange coins or three of coins (or a rune that one time) from the Nightfall. Ive decided to stop running the Nightfall because of all the useless coins I get from it... but getting absolutely 0 is just a kick in the teeth.

Yep nothing at all. It was griffith here on gaf. The second run he got ONE mote of light. I'm so sorry man that's some bullshit.

I got a 303 garbage legendary hand cannon and 10 3oC. Doesn't seem like the patch did much.
 

Rahvar

Member
Vault of Glass drop rates were horrible. The drops themselves weren't.

That's the difference.

I was more responding to the complaints about no loot, I had not yet read your post.

I agree in part. I had fun with my overpowered guns in Y1. But I also missed the lack of variety. At most I switched weapons when there was a specific burn, or when I needed to switch from Gjallarhorn to IceBreaker
 
The current tone is decidedly poisonous and toxic compared to Crota. It's seems to be cool to hate on Destiny lately.

The number of 'fuck this, fuck that' comments about just about everything has reached bandwagon proportions. This is just the latest thing to say 'fuck this' about.

There's room for improvement, sure. But the hate is over the top and just nasty.

I assume I've missed a lot of these posts you're referencing. I was raiding earlier today so I'll go back through pages I missed. Also, it's been cool to hate on Destiny since it launched :p

Crota also took a long time to complete for a few reasons. 1, the glitches. It ruined so many attempts, primarily sword disappearing. 2,it relied heavily on the sword bearer, and the team having heavy ammo. Because of the glitches and the way the encounter was made, along with the losing heavy ammo bug, we would waste time waiting for synths until the ice breaker glitch was found. And even that took a long time to begin. Anytime you have to wait a lot before each attempt, it makes it a lot worse. .

Some great points here. The waiting was so bad it gave birth to the heavy ammo glitch, haha. Plus all the waiting between swords, uugghhhh. Just sitting inside, waving at Scrota through the glass.
 

WipedOut

Member
Most of us have been playing Destiny for over a year now and want to see this game grow properly.

The investment department and Bungie isn't doing their job well enough if they think having ZERO loot as a reward for killing a boss is ok. Fuck, at least give me motes and strange coins. Having a chest appear and nothing be inside is just asinine.
We were penalized for doing normal first. What needs to be said is that it shouldn't matter if you do the normal one first. Getting Only shards is not an acceptable reward. I don't care if it's a 310 item in hard mode as long as we are getting something. Although getting a 300 in normal and a 310 in hard is not acceptable either. Same as you I went 0-2 at daughters because we played it on normal this week.
 

LiK

Member
if you feel bummed out about a video game, maybe it's time to step away and evaluate some things. or play one of the endless amount of other games out there.

or maybe i'm unrealistic for expecting people to be laid back about a video game. it would just be nice if we could keep the miserable circle jerking to things in the world that are actually problems.

do you even know what this thread is about? you add nothing to the discussion with your blatant insults. maybe YOU should step away from this thread and stop shitting on people who aren't satisfied with what's going on with the game. people here have been playing the game since launch and their complaints about what they like or don't like are valid. people are disappointed and pointing out why they don't like it. should they accept it all and just move on? how boring.

anyway, ignored cuz you'll probably have some worthwhile reply that i give a crap about. oh wait, actually i don't.
 
I'm sorry what's the loot difference between Hard Mode and Normal mode? Tell me. Aside from light level, it's the same exact thing.

Stop moving goal posts. Just, stop.

my point was that he's complaining about an event that would take 9 weeks to transpire, when we're half a day removed from hard mode even dropping. maybe have a little patience and see how quickly the HM drops escalate before raging?

your post wasn't relevant anyways. you haven't beaten oryx 9 times on a single character because it hasn't been out for 9 weeks.
 
if you feel bummed out about a video game, maybe it's time to step away and evaluate some things. or play one of the endless amount of other games out there.

or maybe i'm unrealistic for expecting people to be laid back about a video game. it would just be nice if we could keep the miserable circle jerking to things in the world that are actually problems.

Video game forums, how do they work?

Apparently it's okay to be "laid back" about a game, but as soon as you want to discuss what it can do better you'd be better off going outside and donating to Red Cross or something.
 
do you even know what this thread is about? you add nothing to the discussion with your blatant insults. maybe YOU should step away from this thread and stop shitting on people who aren't satisfied with what's going on with the game. people here have been playing the game since launch and their complaints about what they like or don't like are valid. people are disappointed and pointing out why they don't like it. should they accept it all and just move on? how boring.

anyway, ignored cuz you'll probably have some worthwhile reply that i give a crap about. oh wait, actually i don't.

We gave him 9 chances to stop moving the goalposts and to make coherent discussion, too bad

my point was that he's complaining about an event that would take 9 weeks to transpire, when we're half a day removed from hard mode even dropping. maybe have a little patience and see how quickly the HM drops escalate before raging?

your post wasn't relevant anyways. you haven't beaten oryx 9 times on a single character because it hasn't been out for 9 weeks.

Guess what, you can infuse boots from different characters into your main character. I know it's crazy! Those 9 times I did it, there were no boots dropping!

And piss off with your 'BLAH BLAH RELEVANT BLAH BLAH'. Seriously, you're making yourself look like a fool lol.
 

Rahvar

Member
How is that good game design and compatible with real life? Destiny is already a massive time sink.

As I said. It wasn't perfect, but something that had to be done since no game developer can release content at the rate the playera consume it.

I don't play MMORPGs anymore, mainly because the time commitment. If you think Destiny is bad, imagine dedicating 10+ hours a week just preparing for raids and doing dailys and then raid w0+ hours a week.

MMOs is not for everyone and, in my opinion, neither is Destiny
 
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