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[Tecnniqe]

Oh god Im on /v/ all of a sudden

Gotta try to "lighten" the mood

I'm on going to do daily shortly

Let do et! Not sure aboot Flocki yet, but Kxo is in!

 

[Ruthless_Barbarian]

Oryx HM is probably the most downright depressing experience I have had in a game probably since the Four Horseman in the original Naxxramas. I fell like I am a relatively decent player but after today I am not so sure. I have managed to clear all the endgame content within 24hrs of it being released (besides VoG HM), but I fell not matter how much I tried I couldn't get all the mechanics to click properly. Thanks to both my groups for putting up with my scrubiness today and sorry we couldn't get the kill.

Shit happens, I played possibly the worst I ever had yesterday. I had a shit day followed by an evening of constant interruptions, sometimes it's best just to not bother putting yourself through the mill

Fatigue. Lag. Glitches. Under-leveled.

All things coming into play, just makes it so much harder to get it done given one mistake is a wipe. It's just not worth banging your head against the wall while being under leveled against artificial difficulty for terrible loot drops.

Rest, take a break and come back - you'll get it done.

 

[Collateral22]

...Okay? I'm not discussing the quality of the Destiny itself.



Of course, I died once so I'm clearly the worst player here and I deserve to be shouted at.

That's not what he said at all. If you die, it's most likely your fault. That's fine, nobody is perfect. Everyone makes mistakes. But when you don't learn from that mistake and keep making it over and over, you need to be corrected and for me I would rather that if I was doing something wrong someone would correct me on it so that I wouldn't make that mistake again.

 

[Zocano]

Of course, I died once so I'm clearly the worst player here and I deserve to be shouted at.

Yes that's exactly what I said.

 

[KanameYuuki]

You know what needs to be the first thing that is done by the "group leader" when things don't work?

You ask "So guys, what is going wrong?"
And then you let everyone talk and tell you their POV.

We had a group at NM Oryx and we wiped 4 times in a row seemingly out of nowhere.
Then I asked and we went from person to person and one of them said "My Ogre always dies super late so I can't make it to the middle in time and die."
There was the problem, we told the roamers to properly help him and low and behold, next turn Oryx died.

The game is about communication both in AND out of the fight.
Some people will know what is happening but might not feel comfortable with stepping forward and saying it. Especially not if they might be "singled out".
So you let everyone give their view and they won't feel alone and unable to speak up.

Yeah, communication with Oryx is so important and not being afraid of saying, "hey guys, I'm struggling with this", "help me kill this first", "I don't understand this thing", etc.

Bogeypop was telling me what we were missing on our side of the map, I was so annoyed at the knights and I had no clue where they were coming from and afterwards we were getting so good at the first phase our team was doing it flawlessly quite often. I still don't get the timing of their spawn though, which still gets me on my nerves and since they run for it I get so lost trying to check where they are.

 

[Ken]

True, but its not like you're reviewing applications for a raid group. Some people often are with total randoms, using LFG, reddit...etc.

LFG sites can very much have a brief and concise version of applications. Beyond listing the raw stats like light level, possessed weapons, and clear experience sometimes people will include the types of players they're looking for (casual vs serious) and sometimes even the group atmosphere desired (laidback raiding vs hardcore).

 

[Tecnniqe]

I do love that ArtificialDifficulty™ has become a thing now.
Pretty much how all of the Destiny content end up being in the beginning for some weird reason.

 

[DrDrizzay101]

Any well-rested Guardians want to tackle HM Oryx? Realistically people should be at least 309, preferably 310+. I've got the CP and a 311 Warlock if people are serious about taking him down.

 

[Zocano]

Then its amazing you have to tell those fuck ups to git gud, isnt it? The raid is incredibly simple, and yet you end up having to yell and call people fuck ups..I pity you.

I don't actually enrage and yell and belittle someone, if you haven't noticed my backpedaling.

But I expect someone to notice for themselves when they've left their group before their Brand of Unraveling has worn off and passed to another person.

I do love that ArtificialDifficulty™ has become a thing now.
Pretty much how all of the Destiny content end up being in the beginning for some weird reason.

I think gear checks are healthy for any loot based games (in fact they're manditory) and I also think the Destiny community is way too eager and trigger happy to start throwing out "artificial difficulty" (actually, honestly the general hard core gaming community is too eager to start saying it about everything).

That said, it's kind of obvious that that's almost all they are doing with the hard modes for any of the raids.

 

[Liamc723]

That's not what he said at all. If you die, it's most likely your fault. That's fine, nobody is perfect. Everyone makes mistakes. But when you don't learn from that mistake and keep making it over and over, you need to be corrected and for me I would rather that if I was doing something wrong someone would correct me on it so that I wouldn't make that mistake again.

Yes that's exactly what I said.

Have you heard of sarcasm?

 

[E92 M3]

I'll just throw in my 2 motes.

The end game in The Taken King is missing three crucial things from year one - challenge, gear chase, and payoff.

Challenge: When you hit light 300 (which is not that difficult if you've raided a few times), you are overleveled for everything in the game except the Raid. In Year One, most of the content was at max level, so reaching Level 30 was desirable to benefit from the damage resistance. In Year Two however, Weekly Strikes and Daily story missions are not max level. The only encounter we are leveling up for is Hard Mode. This means that if you do not run the Raid, there is no reason to hit the level cap; consequently, there is no reason to organize a group run the Raid with.

Why do we play Halo on a higher difficulty? We want challenge. We want to outsmart puzzles and overcome insurmountable odds. We play the challenging content in Destiny for the same reason, and it is through overcoming that challenge that we are rewarded with better gear to prepare us for the next challenge - gear that could even change the way we play the game.

Gear Chase: We used to share checkpoints for weapon drops - that's how coveted weapons from Year One were. Take away their elements and they are still coveted because their base stats were really fucking good - absolutely too good, but that's why the content was replayed as much as it was. Vault of Glass in itself is fun, but it's not 12 months worth of replayability fun without the weapons that were part of it and the stories of obtaining them. Almost every weapon was worth getting from that Raid.

We are running the most difficult content over and over because we want the best guns in the game. We want the best guns to feel powerful and get ready for the next challenge. We celebrate those moments when RNG blesses us with what we want, and throw ourselves into the dark corners of time when it doesn't. That equates to replay value week after week by our own volition - not through arbitrary time gates - and we know that the reward is worth it because the guns are fucking amazing.

Why level up for the most difficult content to run the most difficult content for guns that are not amazing? The satisfaction of beating Oryx dissipates when you open the chest week after week and either find nothing or a weapon that may as well be a doorstopper.

There can still be good weapons in the game without trivializing the encounters - certainly not anymore than they already are by being overleveled. A well designed and mechanically intensive encounter is not going to fall apart when we bring good weapons to the battle. Our good weapons are going to make the encounter more fun because we feel powerful after putting in the work to get there.


Payoff: And that's the root of these problems. The work we put in is disproportionate to what we're getting out of it. Destiny needs something that makes players hungry. It does not need exotic quests that roll out every week for one day only before disappearing again. It does not need lengthy quests that reward the player with a gun they'll use once. And it absolutely does not need less of the materials to upgrade the weapons when we want to try them out.

Variety is an illusion because people will always seek the best guns; Destiny does not need variety, because that gives the player too many choices and consequentially introduces mediocrity when those choices are distilled to be balanced similarly to one another. What is the difference between Vendor weapons and Raid weapons? One looks like a slab of meat, and the other is something you actually use.

Destiny needs direction and it needs focus. Give players builds to chase after and then make the content difficult as fuck so that those builds are way more desirable. I want to see Oryx drop the most bad ass Solar hand cannon, and then level 42 Nightfall with Solar Burn every other week. Boom, now people are replaying the Raid because they want to blow through that Nightfall.

In laymen's terms, removing elemental damage from weapons dropping from the most difficult content in the game (and by extension, making the base stats on those weapons complete trash) is almost single-handedly responsible for the problem with the end game. The other problem is again - the payoff of running the Raid, seeing gear drop that isn't your level, and feeling like you wasted time when you realized you were chasing after something you don't even need.

At the end of the day, we're using guns, not armor. It's more fun to shoot an OP gun than it is to wear stronger armor.

Luke, I've disagreed with your philosophy for Year Two ever since I got the Touch of Malice and realized that it was only worth using for 5 minutes a week. I hope the team reconsiders these decisions, otherwise I can't see Year Two's longevity coming anywhere close to that of Year One. It hasn't for me.

Perhaps we are no longer chasing after max level and strong builds because there is no longer an expansion with more difficult content on the horizon. But I wouldn't imagine that Bungie would want to design the game to encourage players to play it less than they did before, because that's exactly what The Taken King is doing.

Also, I play Halo on Heroic when I want to enjoy myself and Legendary when I want to be a masochist. If you guys think being underleveled in Destiny is bad, play Halo 2 on Legendary.

Very well written and I agree 1000%. Bungie are very scared to give us exciting weapons to chase.

I've always said this, but players want to feel OP not balanced for PVE content.

 

[Sentinalprimus]

Fatigue. Lag. Glitches. Under-leveled.

All things coming into play, just makes it so much harder to get it done given one mistake is a wipe. It's just not worth banging your head against the wall while being under leveled against artificial difficulty for terrible loot drops.

Rest, take a break and come back - you'll get it done.

Yeah, planning to take a few days off, which is good considering I have Law exams next week :S Managed to get everything done up to Oryx three times really easily, so it wasn't a complete loss. Just need to remember to keep my expectations in check I think.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

I don't actually enrage and yell and belittle someone, if you haven't noticed my backpedaling.

But I expect someone to notice for themselves when they've left their group before their Brand of Unraveling has worn off and passed to another person.

Or you know, you can tell them to keep an eye out for it. Sometimes theres so much shit on the screen that its hard to see small text on the left side.

 

[Ruthless_Barbarian]

A knight one hit bitchslapped me dead.

I like this knight

Now that I had some rest, can't believe how salty I got earlier. Sorry about calling you out of the forum, but you have been ignoring my messages on psn and I was already super annoyed.

Thanks to everyone I raided with today- sentinal, liam, pity and group; fali, ocean, nooblet, kyoufu;, unstable, ji66a, zw bros and special thanks to valbaar for that spot.

Love DGAF.

 

[Namikaze1]

Any well-rested Guardians want to tackle HM Oryx? Realistically people should be at least 309, preferably 310+. I've got the CP and a 311 Warlock if people are serious about taking him down.

I got a 312 Warlock who hasn't done HM yet. I can do Oryx now and do the rest later.

 

[Ryuuga]

I'll just throw in my 2 motes.

The end game in The Taken King is missing three crucial things from year one - challenge, gear chase, and payoff.

Challenge: When you hit light 300 (which is not that difficult if you've raided a few times), you are overleveled for everything in the game except the Raid. In Year One, most of the content was at max level, so reaching Level 30 was desirable to benefit from the damage resistance. In Year Two however, Weekly Strikes and Daily story missions are not max level. The only encounter we are leveling up for is Hard Mode. This means that if you do not run the Raid, there is no reason to hit the level cap; consequently, there is no reason to organize a group run the Raid with.

Why do we play Halo on a higher difficulty? We want challenge. We want to outsmart puzzles and overcome insurmountable odds. We play the challenging content in Destiny for the same reason, and it is through overcoming that challenge that we are rewarded with better gear to prepare us for the next challenge - gear that could even change the way we play the game.

Gear Chase: We used to share checkpoints for weapon drops - that's how coveted weapons from Year One were. Take away their elements and they are still coveted because their base stats were really fucking good - absolutely too good, but that's why the content was replayed as much as it was. Vault of Glass in itself is fun, but it's not 12 months worth of replayability fun without the weapons that were part of it and the stories of obtaining them. Almost every weapon was worth getting from that Raid.

We are running the most difficult content over and over because we want the best guns in the game. We want the best guns to feel powerful and get ready for the next challenge. We celebrate those moments when RNG blesses us with what we want, and throw ourselves into the dark corners of time when it doesn't. That equates to replay value week after week by our own volition - not through arbitrary time gates - and we know that the reward is worth it because the guns are fucking amazing.

Why level up for the most difficult content to run the most difficult content for guns that are not amazing? The satisfaction of beating Oryx dissipates when you open the chest week after week and either find nothing or a weapon that may as well be a doorstopper.

There can still be good weapons in the game without trivializing the encounters - certainly not anymore than they already are by being overleveled. A well designed and mechanically intensive encounter is not going to fall apart when we bring good weapons to the battle. Our good weapons are going to make the encounter more fun because we feel powerful after putting in the work to get there.


Payoff: And that's the root of these problems. The work we put in is disproportionate to what we're getting out of it. Destiny needs something that makes players hungry. It does not need exotic quests that roll out every week for one day only before disappearing again. It does not need lengthy quests that reward the player with a gun they'll use once. And it absolutely does not need less of the materials to upgrade the weapons when we want to try them out.

Variety is an illusion because people will always seek the best guns; Destiny does not need variety, because that gives the player too many choices and consequentially introduces mediocrity when those choices are distilled to be balanced similarly to one another. What is the difference between Vendor weapons and Raid weapons? One looks like a slab of meat, and the other is something you actually use.

Destiny needs direction and it needs focus. Give players builds to chase after and then make the content difficult as fuck so that those builds are way more desirable. I want to see Oryx drop the most bad ass Solar hand cannon, and then level 42 Nightfall with Solar Burn every other week. Boom, now people are replaying the Raid because they want to blow through that Nightfall.

In laymen's terms, removing elemental damage from weapons dropping from the most difficult content in the game (and by extension, making the base stats on those weapons complete trash) is almost single-handedly responsible for the problem with the end game. The other problem is again - the payoff of running the Raid, seeing gear drop that isn't your level, and feeling like you wasted time when you realized you were chasing after something you don't even need.

At the end of the day, we're using guns, not armor. It's more fun to shoot an OP gun than it is to wear stronger armor.

Luke, I've disagreed with your philosophy for Year Two ever since I got the Touch of Malice and realized that it was only worth using for 5 minutes a week. I hope the team reconsiders these decisions, otherwise I can't see Year Two's longevity coming anywhere close to that of Year One. It hasn't for me.

Perhaps we are no longer chasing after max level and strong builds because there is no longer an expansion with more difficult content on the horizon. But I wouldn't imagine that Bungie would want to design the game to encourage players to play it less than they did before, because that's exactly what The Taken King is doing.

Also, I play Halo on Heroic when I want to enjoy myself and Legendary when I want to be a masochist. If you guys think being underleveled in Destiny is bad, play Halo 2 on Legendary.

Best post in the thread so far. I remember being so excited about how expansive the arsenal would be going into year 2, but didn't realize how the changes would affect my enjoyment of them. For the first few weeks of TTK I had no motivation to run the raid, because as you said there just wasn't enough of a payoff for me. Even now, after completing the raid a few times and seeing HM, I just don't feel like there is anything there for me. Each raid drop I get just feels like infuse fodder for a weapon I don't particularly care for. Luke stated that elemental primaries were exempt because people would gravitate towards the few instead of experiencing many, but wouldn't that always be the case? There will always be weapons more favored above the rest, but with TTK I've found none that's iconic or worth the time investment when compared to Year 1.

You played it safe, Bungie. I don't yearn for exotics or legendaries anymore in the way I did come Vanilla. It not longer feels like an event to earn one. So much effort was put towards tempering weapon power, that all of them feel too diluted as a result.

 

[brianjones]

who is we?

I didn't know zoba was the official spokesperson for the community

 

[MagnetoWasRight]

Any well-rested Guardians want to tackle HM Oryx? Realistically people should be at least 309, preferably 310+. I've got the CP and a 311 Warlock if people are serious about taking him down.

I could eke back to 309 but with this raid rocket launcher.

 

[Liamc723]

I like this knight

Now that I had some rest, can't believe how salty I got earlier. Sorry about calling you out of the forum, but you have been ignoring my messages on psn and I was already super annoyed.

Thanks to everyone I raided with today- sentinal, liam, pity and group; fali, ocean, nooblet, kyoufu;, unstable, ji66a, zw bros and special thanks to valbaar for that spot.

Love DGAF.

No problem, it was a breeze up until that Oryx fight.

 

[KanameYuuki]

Any well-rested Guardians want to tackle HM Oryx? Realistically people should be at least 309, preferably 310+. I've got the CP and a 311 Warlock if people are serious about taking him down.

I'm in, I have a 312 Warlock. I just want to kill that jerk and then forget and rest from destiny for a while.

 

[Zocano]

Or you know, you can tell them to keep an eye out for it. Sometimes theres so much shit on the screen that its hard to see small text on the left side.

That's where people need to be on their game and able to keep track of that for themselves.

I am consistently shocked at how often people don't notice buffs/debuffs.

 

[Tecnniqe]

who is we?

I didn't know zoba was the official spokesperson for the community

Zoba is DGAF, Zoba is Life

 

[Vincent Alexander]

Any well-rested Guardians want to tackle HM Oryx? Realistically people should be at least 309, preferably 310+. I've got the CP and a 311 Warlock if people are serious about taking him down.

I'll join HM Oryx. I'm a pretty damn good runner. 310 Warlock.

 

[Zocano]

Zoba is DGAF, Zoba is Life

I refute this false god.

He is amongst the unbelievers who think the raid gear aesthetic is trash.

 

[PuMa]

who is we?

I didn't know zoba was the official spokesperson for the community

Exactly.

I did not concur!

 

[SkylineRKR]

Holy shit found Ruin Wake with Smallbore, Counterbalance and Persistance. This is the new BTRD.

 

[Ruthless_Barbarian]

Any well-rested Guardians want to tackle HM Oryx? Realistically people should be at least 309, preferably 310+. I've got the CP and a 311 Warlock if people are serious about taking him down.

Tomorrow if you'll be up for some sherpa runs? I just can't play anymore today. I was not day one on hm crota but after today I think I understand how you and rawr felt during that time.

 

[Tecnniqe]

I refute this false god.

He is amongst the unbelievers who think the raid gear aesthetic is trash.

Heretic!
You shall pay!

*chanting* Zoba zoba zoba!

 

[MrS]

Need 3 for another hard run to from the beginning up til killing the sisters. Will only take an hour, 90 minutes max - just like the last two times we ran it

1 me
2 jinjo
3 bitofadrizzle
4
5
6

Add Mr-Stephen on PSN

 

[Akiyama_AE]

Need 2 more for hard mode KF we at Warpriest not even gonna go for Oryx just yet just from Priest to Daughters

 

[Inapplicable]

Any well-rested Guardians want to tackle HM Oryx? Realistically people should be at least 309, preferably 310+. I've got the CP and a 311 Warlock if people are serious about taking him down.

I'm willing to give it a shot, can barely reach 311 on all 3 characters so would bring what is best.

 

[SenatorBot]

Any well-rested Guardians want to tackle HM Oryx? Realistically people should be at least 309, preferably 310+. I've got the CP and a 311 Warlock if people are serious about taking him down.

I'm up for this. PSN Jignxs

 

[toastyToast]

Holy shit found Ruin Wake with Smallbore, Counterbalance and Persistance. This is the new BTRD.

They all have the same middle tree

 

[captscience]

Need 3 for another hard run to from the beginning up til killing the sisters. Will only take an hour, 90 minutes max - just like the last two times we ran it

1 me
2 jinjo
3 bitofadrizzle
4 captscience
5
6

Add Mr-Stephen on PSN

I'll join!

 

[toastyToast]

Anyone up for a fresh HM KF run?

Not looking to struggle at Oryx for hours, mainly interested in running an alt (309 titan) through in hopes of better gear.

Yeah I'm in

 

[MrS]

I'll join!

Mr-Stephen on PSN. We have another 2 already

Yeah I'm in

Join us!

 

[Venfayth]

Anyone want to do a normal mode kings fall or nightfall? 298 warlock

 

[PuMa]

Heretic!
You shall pay!

*chanting* Zoba zoba zoba!

I don't understand the zoba boners

 

[MostWantedZero]

Need 3 for another hard run to from the beginning up til killing the sisters. Will only take an hour, 90 minutes max - just like the last two times we ran it

1 me
2 jinjo
3 bitofadrizzle
4
5
6

Add Mr-Stephen on PSN

U guys still have room?

 

[SeanR1221]

Yeah, communication with Oryx is so important and not being afraid of saying, "hey guys, I'm struggling with this", "help me kill this first", "I don't understand this thing", etc.

Bogeypop was telling me what we were missing on our side of the map, I was so annoyed at the knights and I had no clue where they were coming from and afterwards we were getting so good at the first phase our team was doing it flawlessly quite often. I still don't get the timing of their spawn though, which still gets me on my nerves and since they run for it I get so lost trying to check where they are.

Yeah the lack of communication from some people is my biggest annoyance. I don't mind when people don't know what to do. I do mind people remaining silent because they're too scared to say "hey what are the mechanics here?"

 

[toastyToast]

Mr-Stephen on PSN. We have another 2 already

Join us!

Alright gotta boot up the ps4

don't start without me!

 

[Zocano]

The problem with making extremely powerful and all desired guns is that those become the de facto weapons of the game and there's no reason to use anything else. This is/was especially a problem when those select weapons were actually incredibly plentiful and very common, relative to the ecosystem now.

I'd rather have 10 different weapons that I use all once a week rather than 1 weapon I use all week.

Yes, I get the point of them existing as the ultimate "chase", but I prefer what we have now.

 

[Namikaze1]

So across two characters, I got yesterday:

HM drops only
313 Ghosts x2
311 Titan chest
315 Hunter Chest
313-4 Titan Boots (I can't remember the LL)
313 Hunter cloak
313 Machine Gun
320 Machin Gun
313 Pulse Rifle
315 Shotgun (I later infused it into my Spindle)

The rest were NM drops.

 

[hitlerat]

Need 3 for another hard run to from the beginning up til killing the sisters. Will only take an hour, 90 minutes max - just like the last two times we ran it

1 me
2 jinjo
3 bitofadrizzle
4
5
6

Add Mr-Stephen on PSN

Is it full? 303 wl is fine or too low?
Ganryu_gdm

 

[Ryuuga]

I don't understand the zoba boners

Zoba has a view and has stated such, both here and in a thread over on the gaming side. People share these views in the same way others who don't share yours. Does that confuse you?

 

[Tecnniqe]

I don't understand the zoba boners

 

[Zocano]

Heretic!
You shall pay!

*chanting* Zoba zoba zoba!

The weight of my heresy will not stay my feet.

 

[MrS]

Is it full? 303 wl is fine or too low?
Ganryu_gdm

Sorry mate, full now.

 

[westtrade]

Any well-rested Guardians want to tackle HM Oryx? Realistically people should be at least 309, preferably 310+. I've got the CP and a 311 Warlock if people are serious about taking him down.

I am ready. Titan, level 313
PSN: westtrade

 

[Nabbis]

Anyone doing normal raid?