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Destiny |OT35| Time to Explain At Last

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G

gutter_trash

Banned
Kyoufu said:
Is that list made for cosmetic reasons or is there a reason to have a full Crucible and full Iron Banner set? What's the point of full Faction sets?

Either way, that would take a lot less than 6 months to build when you're doing King's Fall 3 times a week with hypothetical guaranteed drops of max Light.
Click to expand...

Dead Orbit's vendor stat Scout Rifle is really good (Hung Jury)
New Monarchy's vendor stat Auto Rifle (Rigthous) is really good.
Future War Cult has a good Hand Cannon (Vanity) and good Pulse Rifle (Villainy) and good Rocket Launcher on vendor stats.
 
F

Future

Member
Bungies desire to hang that light carrot in front of you forces this design. They want it to take forever to get to max light, so they limit high light level gear that you will never be able to create build options. Unfortunately their build options are not great so I don't feel they are confident enough to depend on that

I feel like their build options have to resemble their mission modifiers or old halo skulls. Something that definitely changes play style (slow shield regen but stronger shields, primary or secondary buffs, only melee recharges shield with faster melee recharge, etc)

Stuff like Extra agility off of arc splash has a tiny use case that you won't feel important to build upon (and minimal effect: why make a build around this? Or what type of build does this support?)

Also, the random assortment of perks make it hard to make a build anyway. Maxing the right stat (str, int, dis) with the right weapon ammo multiplier with the right reload speed increase along with everything else is so hard that you stop trying to do it. And there is no real reason to do it either since there are no set bonuses or anything that compels you to max any type of build
 
K

Kyoufu

Member
gutter_trash said:
Dead Orbit's vendor stat Scout Rifle is really good (Hung Jury)
New Monarchy's vendor stat Auto Rifle (Rigthous) is really good.
Future War Cult has a good Hand Cannon (Vanity) and good Pulse Rifle (Villainy) and good Rocket Launcher on vendor stats.
Click to expand...

Okay? You listed 1 item worth using from each faction. We were talking about full armor sets :p
 
D

DVPredator85

Member
lt519 said:
I swear that they have a formula for when the player base decline hits a certain slope value an exotic quest for Gjallahorn 2.0 will begin and it will involve getting a rare drop like the Crux from each of the raid bosses with "smart" loot that ensures it'll take you 4 months to get.

I'm pretty certain that a Weekly Heroic Raid with random modifiers would revitalize the games end-game content. Dunno how they'd do the loot, but it'd be super fun playing VoG with Void Burn, Juggler, and Grounded or something like that.
Click to expand...

If the game had more avenues for 310-320 gear, it would be a lot better than playing the hm raid over and over.

If they had a strike playlist that was super hard but guaranteed 310-320 gear, and also have Trials drop the same level gear, it would be so much better.

But as it is now, it's no different than vanilla. Hit 300 and pray to RNG gods during normal mode. After that, you hit hit 310 and go back to praying during hard mode.

There's no variety in the endgame, it's the same shit over and over.
 
K

Kyoufu

Member
Kor of Memory said:
I feel like you're missing the point.

The point is that the option should be there for anyone that wants to do it. Not that the system should be built around every players wanting a full max set of each possible armor configuration.
Click to expand...

I'm not saying the option shouldn't be there. I'm utterly confused, Kor!

All I'm saying is I personally would not do King's Fall ever again if I got max Light gear from it because there's no reason for me to step inside again.
 
MagnetoWasRight

MagnetoWasRight

Member
commish said:
Destiny isn't the type of game where you min/max, collect everything and try out different gear. There's not much difference between the different armors - one is as good as another, except light rating. Once you get a 320 piece of armor, there is *zero* reason to seek out other armors for that slot. No meaningful perk difference, no set bonuses, etc.
Click to expand...
Did you play during House of Wolves? Min/maxing was absolutely a thing, with different pieces of armor playing different roles for different PvE and PvP builds. Now armors even have different burn resistances and ammo perks.
 
G

gutter_trash

Banned
Kyoufu said:
Okay? You listed 1 item worth using from each faction. We were talking about full armor sets :p
Click to expand...

because they look good and don't look like Raid ass.

I got a full Dead Orbit armor set for my Hunter, full New Monarchy set for my Titan and full FWC set my Warlock

why?

because Raid gear has always looked atrociously bad with insect like Hive poop coming out of them
 
X

xplicitone

Member
There's so much crap in the game and we want to play with it all but we're so tethered to using a small portion for end game activities because we're tied to light.

I can't use any other exotic gear except for exotic helms because I can't get a single raid helm to drop ever, or anything above a 295 helm for my alts.

I want to try exotic gloves, chest, and boots but I simply can't otherwise my light will drop somewhat significantly.
 
D

Deku Tree

Member
xplicitone said:
There's so much crap in the game and we want to play with it all but we're so tethered to using a small portion for end game activities because we're tied to light.

I can't use any other exotic gear except for exotic helms because I can't get a single raid helm to drop ever, or anything above a 295 helm for my alts.

I want to try exotic gloves, chest, and boots but I simply can't otherwise my light will drop somewhat significantly.
Click to expand...

Yeah this doesn't promote gear variety at all, which was Bungie's stated goal. It only promotes "you can only use the load out the RNG gave you" for the most part.

Of course if all you care about is 290 light activities like NF and below then you have a lot of gear variety, but then you have to sacrifice your light level and your raid gear.
 
L

LTWood12

Member
Going to be home for lunch in about 45 min. Need to do Sword Strike for Dark Drinker or the NTTE final encounter. Anyone up for either of those?

edit: Hey looks like Nami is waiting around for me! Oryx it is.
 
L

lt519

Member
Boguester said:
Anyway, just some general thread clarification (whether or not you were referencing me).
Click to expand...

I was purposely not trying to point you out because I know you Sherpa! You've more than earned the right to say whatever you want whenever you want :p I was just using the post as a general reference point of how it can be discouraging to read this thread sometimes. People are (rightfully) complaining about content that the majority of us haven't even experience yet. Most people would be happy at clearing Oryx at this point, regardless of the drops they got from him. I think it can be toned down a bit especially since the conversation just goes in circles and starts anew every reset.

I understand the loot is bad and the raid isn't very flexible in design, I just don't see the point in beating the dead horse. Bungie has plenty of feedback. I'd rather see this thread be more fun than the constant whining in general. Again your posts are well thought out and have plenty of merit, but the drive by "fucking smart loot" posts are getting very very tiresome.

(stealth edit edit) Edit: For the people feeling stale: your fun in the game may be rekindled by helping people through raids and watching people struggle through the pistons section. It can be a lot of fun sherpa-ing people.

Not trying to start anything, it was just a general thought, because it's been rough in here and I thought phenom was on the right track. The energy could be more positive if I were going to get all hippie on us.
 
K

Kor of Memory

Member
Kyoufu said:
I'm not saying the option shouldn't be there. I'm utterly confused, Kor!

All I'm saying is I personally would not do King's Fall ever again if I got max Light gear from it because there's no reason for me to step inside again.
Click to expand...

But even that is better than forcing you to run it for months for an attempts at one full set.

Remember what Blizzard said about players leaving happy.

If you got your full set after your 3rd run, you might be done with the raid, maybe even done with Destiny for awhile, but you'll look back on it fondly, and when a new raid comes out, you'll want to take another crack at this new experience.

In the current scenario, players are forced to run the raid for months, with unpredictable results, and each bad drop is another reason to never come back. Eventually people associate the raid with negative emotions. So when the next raid comes out, you have people who are already burned out on breaks, trying to determine if it's even worth it to come back to restart the whole process.
 
T

tearsintherain

Member
For PSN users, don't forget that from Oct 6th - Nov 3d, if you spend $100 on the PSN store you will get back $15 a few weeks later. They've run the promo many times, I've done it every time without problem.

It works for preorders too, I pre'd Fallout 4, bought Devil May Cry R on the last flash sale, the rocket league back to the future car, and a few other flash game sales and was $5 short so bought silver on the Destiny store. So for anyone else who is close, it may be a good option. Also driveclub motorbikes is $15 (should be $12 for PS+ users though I think?) and releases tomorrow I believe.

Didn't spend my destiny silver yet though, between hard mode and halo 5 my interest in destiny is nearly zero so will probably just wait for the next emote/holiday/whatever.
 
L

LTWood12

Member
Namikaze1 said:
I can wait.




We'll go once LT is ready.

I'll be taking my 313 Warlock. Just know that this is just for Oryx as that's the only encounter I wasn't able to complete yesterday on my alts.
Click to expand...

Rad. I'll be on my 311 Titan btw. 316 Touch of Malice as insurance for that final DPS ;)
 
F

Future

Member
xplicitone said:
There's so much crap in the game and we want to play with it all but we're so tethered to using a small portion for end game activities because we're tied to light.

I can't use any other exotic gear except for exotic helms because I can't get a single raid helm to drop ever, or anything above a 295 helm for my alts.

I want to try exotic gloves, chest, and boots but I simply can't otherwise my light will drop somewhat significantly.
Click to expand...

And there is no way to target the helmet to ensure progress.

Nerfing the 310 black spindle was a mistake. It was the example of how to solve these things IMO. Add tough challenges to get guaranteed drops in certain categories at high light. So even if you have poor rng you will KNOW you can get one high level helmet every week during the event / challenge

Also not adding high light gear to iron banner was a travesty
 
T

TheAquaticApe

Member
toastyToast said:
They're black and have Last Resort built in
Click to expand...

Lol @ Last Resort, this perk is for the 1% of amazing PVP players that can swing a match

Exhumed is at least a bit more feasible in PVP...but it only last 10 seconds and by the time you get through the respawn animation you've already wasted 2 seconds.
 
B

BahamutPT

Member
Assuming the drops at Oryx are equally weighted and that the Exotics from the chest take up a Raid drop slot, the chance for a Helmet is 12.5% while the chance for any Primary drop is 50%.

If the Exotics don't steal the Raid drop slot, should be ~16.67% for the Helmet and ~66.67% for any Primary.

------
Edit:

This is taking into account the Oryx loot table:

- 4 Raid Primaries
- 1 Helmet
- 1 Ghost Shell (they can definitely drop from Oryx since I got a 320 yesterday + 2 NM drops)

- Exotic Weapon
- Exotic Armor
 
M

Midshipman

Member
Namikaze1 said:
I can wait.




We'll go once LT is ready.

I'll be taking my 313 Warlock. Just know that this is just for Oryx as that's the only encounter I wasn't able to complete yesterday on my alts.
Click to expand...

That's fine. It's not a tough encounter as long as everyone is 310+ and know how to shoot Knights in the head.
 
K

Kyoufu

Member
lt519 said:
I was purposely not trying to point you out because I know you Sherpa! You've more than earned the right to say whatever you want whenever you want :p I was just using the post as a general reference point of how it can be discouraging to read this thread sometimes. People are (rightfully) complaining about content that the majority of us haven't even experience yet. Most people would be happy at clearing Oryx at this point, regardless of the drops they got from him. I think it can be toned down a bit especially since the conversation just goes in circles and starts anew every reset.

I understand the loot is bad and the raid isn't very flexible in design, I just don't see the point in beating the dead horse. Bungie has plenty of feedback. I'd rather see this thread be more fun than the constant whining in general. Again your posts are well thought out and have plenty of merit, but the drive by "fucking smart loot" posts are getting very very tiresome.
Click to expand...

I think you're right and at this point I am basically beating a dead horse. My apologies to everyone who is either enjoying the game in its current state or just doesn't want to hear it any more.

I'm just hoping Bungie reads the criticism and feedback. The Taken King is basically a culmination of feedback over the course of a year and it's really apparent, so hopefully they continue taking our feedback. Anyway, I won't complain any more. Sorry.

Kor of Memory said:
But even that is better than forcing you to run it for months for an attempts at one full set.

Remember what Blizzard said about players leaving happy.

If you got your full set after your 3rd run, you might be done with the raid, maybe even done with Destiny for awhile, but you'll look back on it fondly, and when a new raid comes out, you'll want to take another crack at this new experience.

In the current scenario, players are forced to run the raid for months, with unpredictable results, and each bad drop is another reason to never come back. Eventually people associate the raid with negative emotions. So when the next raid comes out, you have people who are already burned out on breaks, trying to determine if it's even worth it to come back to restart the whole process.
Click to expand...

You've totally lost me Kor. I'm actually agreeing with you that it would be better to get guaranteed drops at 310/320. If you haven't noticed, my complaints over the past couple of weeks have been about the current systems and why they don't work.
 
N

Namikaze1

Member
LTWood12 said:
Rad. I'll be on my 311 Titan btw. 316 Touch of Malice as insurance for that final DPS ;)
Click to expand...
I need Oryx to give me a third primary weapon to infuse to my ToM. I love the raid Pulse so I kept the Harrowed version after it dropped. I'm liking the scout a lot so I won't be using that for infusion fodder.
 
C

commish

Jason Kidd murdered my dog in cold blood!
Macello said:
Did you play during House of Wolves? Min/maxing was absolutely a thing, with different pieces of armor playing different roles for different PvE and PvP builds. Now armors even have different burn resistances and ammo perks.
Click to expand...

Nope, I quit before that came out and didn't do much with it before TTK. I was actually pretty excited to see the different burn resistances on some of the TTK gear and I hope there's a point in the game where they make a meaningful difference.
 
K

Kor of Memory

Member
commish said:
Nope, I quit before that came out and didn't do much with it before TTK. I was actually pretty excited to see the different burn resistances on some of the TTK gear and I hope there's a point in the game where they make a meaningful difference.
Click to expand...

I have a chest piece right now that increases my armor if I'm a solar subclass.

That's crazy to me. I want one of these for each class. This is a crazy good perk.
 
L

LTWood12

Member
Namikaze1 said:
I need Oryx to give me a third primary weapon to infuse to my ToM. I love the raid Pulse so I kept the Harrowed version after it dropped. I'm liking the scout a lot so I won't be using that for infusion fodder.
Click to expand...

Well luckily, I got a POS 318 Zhouli's Bane w/ hip-fire accuracy. I'll gear up via the app and be ready to go about 5 or 10 min before the top of the hour. I'll have around an hour. If everyone's already grouped up once I sign on it'll help make the most of my time, but if not no big deal.
 
T

toastyToast

Member
TheAquaticApe said:
Lol @ Last Resort, this perk is for the 1% of amazing PVP players that can swing a match

Exhumed is at least a bit more feasible in PVP...but it only last 10 seconds and by the time you get through the respawn animation you've already wasted 2 seconds.
Click to expand...

A lot of the new main perks are pretty awful. Like Surrounded on a primary. When the flying fuck are you gonna be surrounded by 3 enemies and continue to use your primary weapon? When fighting thralls? Then there's Danger Close which is a worse version which needs only 2 enemies. Exhumed as you mentioned, 99.999999999% useless along with Last Resort.

How the hell do those match up with actual useful stuff like Outlaw, Persistence, Counterbalance, Grenadier, Reactive Reload and Firefly? They introduce that garbage after we can't re-roll anymore too lol
 
L

lt519

Member
Kyoufu said:
I think you're right and at this point I am basically beating a dead horse. My apologies to everyone who is either enjoying the game in its current state or just doesn't want to hear it any more.

I'm just hoping Bungie reads the criticism and feedback. The Taken King is basically a culmination of feedback over the course of a year and it's really apparent, so hopefully they continue taking our feedback. Anyway, I won't complain any more. Sorry.
Click to expand...

Don't apologize, I wasn't directing the post at anyone. In retrospect I wish I hadn't even said anything, if the discussion is bothering me I probably should just take a break from the thread. People have a right to voice their opinion.

I do think Bungie is listening to us, it takes time to get things right and they have the tough job of balancing the game for the likes of us and for the casuals that play only an hour or two a week. Every expansion has done the one step backwards two steps forward dance. Destiny 2 will hopefully be a massive leap from all they've learnt. DGAF is listened to by Bungie, so we should voice our opinions on the matter.
 
Z

Zocano

Member
Maybe there will come a time when they actually have multiple raids that string through each other to progressively gear you up (say 280 to 300 then 295 to 315 then 310 to 320). That way the loot can be fixed but rarer.

God, burning crusade raiding was great
 
X

xplicitone

Member
I play for fun but it's a bit of a slap in the face to play a hard raid for hours and get either nothing or a 310 Harrowed.

That's all there is to it.

With the current state of infusion, light levels and rng, there needs to be 1 guaranteed good drop for something that is that hard. Whether you use that for fodder or to keep is up to you.

Or... maybe collecting shards is fine. Have it so by the time you go from start to daughters, you've collected 20 shards to gain a guaranteed good drop from Oryx using those shards.
 
A

Amentallica

Unconfirmed Member
Alright. I don't have any friends on PSN and I'm looking to repurchase a PS4. Right now I can get one for $349 with the Uncharted Collection and The Taken King, so my question is as follows: Is The Taken King a good enough expansion where I can rely solely on myself to play, or does the game still rely heavily on P2P? :[
 
M

MikeyMike

Member
lt519 said:
I was purposely not trying to point you out because I know you Sherpa! You've more than earned the right to say whatever you want whenever you want :p I was just using the post as a general reference point of how it can be discouraging to read this thread sometimes. People are (rightfully) complaining about content that the majority of us haven't even experience yet. Most people would be happy at clearing Oryx at this point, regardless of the drops they got from him. I think it can be toned down a bit especially since the conversation just goes in circles and starts anew every reset.

I understand the loot is bad and the raid isn't very flexible in design, I just don't see the point in beating the dead horse. Bungie has plenty of feedback. I'd rather see this thread be more fun than the constant whining in general. Again your posts are well thought out and have plenty of merit, but the drive by "fucking smart loot" posts are getting very very tiresome.

Edit: It's also a general feeling I've had since joining the DGAF community since TDB. We shit on LFG for being selective, but some people in this community are quietly selective with who they play with. That's almost as bad, they just aren't being vocal about only wanting to play with top tier/geared players. It'd be nice to see some of them branch out and embrace the community a bit more. Their fun in the game may be rekindled by helping people through raids and watching people struggle through the pistons section.

Not trying to start anything, it was just a general thought, because it's been rough in here and I thought phenom was on the right track. The energy could be more positive if I were going to get all hippie on us.
Click to expand...

I do feel like most of my posts sound like a rant.

Will be looking for a HM raid tonight and will embrace whatever outcome... loot doesn't really matter anymore at this point.
 
J

JohnOfMars

Banned
Boguester said:
Not sure if you're referencing me but I did post yesterday about HM Oryx being on farm, drops were bad, and my reset group ran KF 3 times in a row for 5 hours straight.... so I could at least give a qualified response :p

-For me, saying something's "on farm" just means I understand the encounter. It might still be challenging and some clears could take an hour but I personally understand how the system works and what goes wrong each wipe. Its meant to be encouraging, never derogatory. I want everyone to have confidence beating it, instead of talking up the difficulty.

-HM loot tables are bad and should feel bad. They deserve criticism until Bungie at least acknowledges the issue or ideally improves it. If the topic hasn't warranted a front-page Reddit thread yet then clearly we have more work to do.

-Similar to loot tables, the raid design has issues that deserve discussion. Doesn't mean I'm not also having fun playing with friends. Fwiw NM has been out 7 weeks and I have 37 clears, HM has 14 clears in two weeks. No shortage of sherpa-derping and playing for fun, same as every other end game activity since launch.

Anyway, just some general thread clarification (whether or not you were referencing me).
Click to expand...

I think the whole light system is at cross-purposes with their goal of making Optimization a thing in Taken King.

I get a little frustrated with everyone describing their loot solely in terms of light, but I totally get why. You can't care about perks when you need to be 311+ for Oryx and you just got a Godroll 302 pair of gloves.

For people to be able to comfortably optimize, loot drops have to be frequent enough to a) see lots of variation in perks/stats and b) have lots of high light so they can infuse what they want, rather than being forced to use the max light gear they have.

But if you turn the drop rate up that high, then everyone who doesn't want to optimize (i'd guess most players) will get their drops so fast that they'll stop playing. And if all loot was 310 in Normal Mode and 320 in Hard Mode, then how many would keep raiding once they got a complete set and thus were at max level? How many people kept their Full STR PoE Gear vs actively checking the stat/perk distributions week to week?

I think Bungie severely underestimated the amount of focus people would put on light. You only need to be 310+ for HM Oryx. PvP Power Enabled differences are neglible. I think they hoped people would bin themselves and say I'm 300-ish, I'm good. I'm 310-ish, I'm good. Instead people are agonizing over 308 vs 309 like it's #Forever29. To be fair, they did anticipate it a bit and thus made the # floating above people's names be level instead of light. But player psychology often chooses painful things, like grinding out Crucible sword hilt kills all in a row.

It should also be said, for everyone chasing 320, this is only a problem until it isn't. Just like people complaining about legendary marks week 1. That may be why Bungie is sitting back for now.

It's a really hard balancing problem. Make it good for me and you spoil the game for non-1%. Make it enough of a grind for the 99% and it's agonizing for 1%. I think at the moment, they've made it too much of grind for everyone. But that's okay if they're nimble and communicative. I'd rather them be conservative about powerful parts of the economy.
WTF Weapon Parts.
It's a good sign that Bungie is taking a big look at rewards for Challenge mode. And they absolutely need to look at Normal / Hard too, but I wouldn't be surprised if the drop rates don't change significantly.
 
S

silver.tongue

Member
Namikaze1 said:
I can wait.




We'll go once LT is ready.

I'll be taking my 313 Warlock. Just know that this is just for Oryx as that's the only encounter I wasn't able to complete yesterday on my alts.
Click to expand...

Cool. Shoot me an invite when ready. Havent done oryx yet but i know the strat so i'm sure i can pull it off.
 
X

xplicitone

Member
Amentallica said:
Alright. I don't have any friends on PSN and I'm looking to repurchase a PS4. Right now I can get one for $349 with the Uncharted Collection and The Taken King, so my question is as follows: Is The Taken King a good enough expansion where I can rely solely on myself to play, or does the game still rely heavily on P2P? :[
Click to expand...

Well the main story missions for TTK have improved and I solo'd them all 4 times total. However, it's only about 2 hours for those missions. Base + DLC 1 + 2 is maybe 20ish hours. You can solo all of those as well.

DLC 2 and TTK had the best missions and soloing them was still fun. But after all of that, there are many quests and end game content (raids) that you need to group up to do. The raids are a ton of fun.

Even though solo content is a lot more fun with others. But definitely not relied heavily.

PvP can also be done solo. You just won't get as good of team as you can joining a gaf train.
 
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