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Destiny |OT36| Fifty Shades of TTK

Speaking of just Mercury loot: Messenger was amazing even back in HoW, Scholar was a great PvE scout, Summoner was a theoretically great auto if only the entire weapon class wasn't garbage, and Jewel was a great PvP HC completely overshadowed by the Exotic Trinity.

Now: Pulse is basically same as IB Nirwen's but worse, auto rifle is pea-shooter incarnate, scout is well designed and fun (but sadly not competitive), and hand cannon wouldn't be good even if HCs hadn't been murdered (it's another TTK HC with super low base range, smh).

People can debate the utility of elemental primaries until we're blue in the face, especially for PvP weapons. But nobody is gonna argue that Last Resort is some kind of "must have" perk. I don't even look at the weapon when I open the Mercury chest now, just the Light.

I think you're remembering things more positively than they actually were. I think I could count the number of times I saw someone using trials gear that wasn't Messenger on one hand.

You remember how bad the perks were on the jewel? Icarus?
 

Trakan

Member
Speaking of just Mercury loot: Messenger was amazing even back in HoW, Scholar was a great PvE scout, Summoner was a theoretically great auto if only the entire weapon class wasn't garbage, and Jewel was a great PvP HC completely overshadowed by the Exotic Trinity.

Now: Pulse is basically same as IB Nirwen's but worse, auto rifle is pea-shooter incarnate, scout is well designed and fun (but sadly not competitive), and hand cannon wouldn't be good even if HCs hadn't been murdered (it's another TTK HC with super low base range, smh).

People can debate the utility of elemental primaries until we're blue in the face, especially for PvP weapons. But nobody is gonna argue that Last Resort is some kind of "must have" perk. I don't even look at the weapon when I open the Mercury chest now, just the Light.

Not to mention the other stats on the guns are shitty as well. The guns all have shitty sights, the stats/perks are not what they should be. I can get perfect stability on gunsmith weapons but not on the Trials scout? Nerfing the perks as hard as they did with the 2.0 update was a mistake. A perk should not give a slight sliver of a benefit. That's just a waste.
 

Deku Tree

Member
Speaking of just Mercury loot: Messenger was amazing even back in HoW, Scholar was a great PvE scout, Summoner was a theoretically great auto if only the entire weapon class wasn't garbage, and Jewel was a great PvP HC completely overshadowed by the Exotic Trinity.

Now: Pulse is basically same as IB Nirwen's but worse, auto rifle is pea-shooter incarnate, scout is well designed and fun (but sadly not competitive), and hand cannon wouldn't be good even if HCs hadn't been murdered (it's another TTK HC with super low base range, smh).

People can debate the utility of elemental primaries until we're blue in the face, especially for PvP weapons. But nobody is gonna argue that Last Resort is some kind of "must have" perk. I don't even look at the weapon when I open the Mercury chest now, just the Light.

And this may be "working as intended". I imagine that Bungies thinking could be that they want the best weapons to be theoretically obtained by everybody. No reason why the reward for the best players doing the hardest activities should be the most OP weapon that can make them even more OP against players that are already worse than them. The reward for Mercury is the 310-320 primary weapon (possible infusion fodder) and the satisfaction of getting there IMO.
 
Not really. Mercury isn't really worth it anymore. They made it harder to get there introducing the skill based matchmaking, with worse connections as they aren't prioritized anymore. They also made the weapons much shittier. I don't even care if I don't get to Mercury. Anyone can get the same rewards people get from Mercury with a different paintjob that lack one shitty perk.

I have no idea what Bungie was thinking with they redesigned this.

I like the redesign. I can actually get trials rewards now. You are right about Mercury though. I haven't been there in Y2 and I don't care if I ever do. Getting a 310+ weapon w/ last resort isn't actually a show stopper. I couldn't care less about my light level now. Love the non-adept handcannon though, definitely my favorite PvP primary atm.
 
I didn't realize he is most always doing a double carry until recently! He uses that sniper like it's a primary gun, lol. Makes some unbelievable shots at crazy angles. Guy is a beast.

No doubt, I have mad respect for people like him and Giggle Monster who do double carries. It makes for more dramatic viewing than two super pros carrying one scrub but it also hurts my soul to watch sometimes.

Kraftyy is unbelievable, uses TLW like it didn't get a nerf and those drag snipes are unreal.

On another note, found it hard to counter rushing invectives on this map. Wish TLW wasn't as bad (ibmy hands).

It's really easy to counter shotguns with snipers by staying in an open area and forcing them through choke points. A good sniper will always beat a good shot gunner in Trials, shotties are so much more limited. I always breathe a sigh of relief if I see we're playing an all-shotgun team.

And don't let Krafty fool you. TLW is real rough now but that doesn't mean good players can't do well with it. Even so, he misses shots all over the place and loses most of his straight up 1v1s against pulses. Sniper is his primary and TLW is used for finishing off body shots and countering shotgun rushers, that's it.
 
part of me thinks bungie doesn't want mercury loot to be too OP because then its a case of the rich getting richer .. best rewards for best players.. which goes against all the other loot drops in the game

that might just be a cop out tho

Bungie doesn't seem to be doing a very good job of balancing power and desirability. They need to make the rewards desirable without being OP. To do that they need to make weapons that are significantly different from the rest perks or archetype wise. If the trials pulse had Messenger tier impact which no non Hakke pulse does currently it would be more interesting. Even a tier between Hawksaw and Nirwen's RoF would be better than a worse version of Nirwen's.
 
Bungie doesn't seem to be doing a very good job of balancing power and desirability. They need to make the rewards desirable without being OP. To do that they need to make weapons that are significantly different from the rest perks or archetype wise. If the trials pulse had Messenger tier impact which no non Hakke pulse does currently it would be more interesting. Even a tier between Hawksaw and Nirwen's RoF would be better than a worse version of Nirwen's.

spare change also has the messenger tier impact but i get your point

that could have been the trials tier

basically yeah if you have a nirwen the trials pulse is just infusion fodder
 
Not really. Mercury isn't really worth it anymore. They made it harder to get there introducing the skill based matchmaking, with worse connections as they aren't prioritized anymore. They also made the weapons much shittier. I don't even care if I don't get to Mercury. Anyone can get the same rewards people get from Mercury with a different paintjob that lack one shitty perk.

I have no idea what Bungie was thinking with they redesigned this.

Agree. I continue to play because I love the DGAF PvP community here. I thought HoW was great. Reset day was all raids and then my weekend was Trials runs. Some of the closest friendships I have formed on here came from playing with DGAFers in Trials.
Playing with our best of the best here too is a real treat. You can learn so much!

I also want the full armor and shaders. I wish they were a bit more clear on the Beetle emblem.

EJ you around? Did you use any boons? Did you go to Mercury AFTER 9 wins then come back and do more? It seems like you just need to get 9+ wins...
 
Speaking of just Mercury loot: Messenger was amazing even back in HoW, Scholar was a great PvE scout, Summoner was a theoretically great auto if only the entire weapon class wasn't garbage, and Jewel was a great PvP HC completely overshadowed by the Exotic Trinity.

Now: Pulse is basically same as IB Nirwen's but worse

I get the feeling it was supposed to be a hard hitter but they backtracked. The gun has 9 bursts like the messenger/spare change and has very similar recoil to the former. It provides no advantages over the Nirwen's Mercy. It's not really an issue of exclusivity because people can get one from a gold package without even trying to win and the adept versions don't really do anything extra.

I wanna snag an adept version of all the primaries for completion purposes but it'd be nice to want to use any of the weapons.
 

NeOak

Member
Oh, you're that Guy :|

Not really, I barely play Crucible now.

An actual Messenger Year 2 archetype pulse and a high impact revive kill sniper would go a long way. It wouldn't break any balance but would give desirable PvP weapons to PvP players. Nothing OP but something arguably best-in-slot. All the Mercury primaries are good for is infusing better weapons up above 310.

^This.
 

Xeyark

Unconfirmed Member
So no other NM KF raid groups going? I missed both small groups looking right at the moment they joined up together.

Just my luck.
 
It still pulls to the left a bit, but they seemed to make most pulses have a bit of side movement.

I've had about 4 sc25s but none with stability. :(

Yeah that kept me from it in HoW, but counterbalance fixes that. That's almost a necessary perk now that nearly no pulses drop without noticeable recoil patterns.
 

Frenden

Banned
PvP is the only thing left that holds my interest until new content drops, but 2.0 killed my shooty shoot soul. Since most folks are pretty down on solo PvP (and who blames them--I'm so sick of getting matchmade into losing teams or being the only person that goes positive), I'm going to try and start a weeknight banner-style train.

6v6, get drunk, shoot things, someone always steering the bus and posting here with slots opened. Treating Crucible as a social experience is about the best value we can get out of it now. That's pretty much the ONLY way I'll do anything except dailies and bounties anymore and it is BRUTAL to try and get people together during the week for Crucible anymore. And the weekends are just Trials, so...

Yeah, weeknight Crucibus for real Crucibros. I'll be loud about it this week.
 
I think you're remembering things more positively than they actually were. I think I could count the number of times I saw someone using trials gear that wasn't Messenger on one hand.

You remember how bad the perks were on the jewel? Icarus?

Ask Twilight or Unstable how they feel about actually being able to shoot stuff midair instead of Destiny's usual severe airborne accuracy penalties. That verticality was a huge part of TLW's appeal, especially for Strikers and Gunslingers. Some people even felt TLW had a hidden Icarus-like perk since it was actually viable in air.

As for people not using Trials gear, the sniper and shotty were straight up bad like you said. But elemental Scholars were great for Nightfalls and PoE. Trials rocket launcher was the PvP ideal, machine gun was also very viable. Jewel, Summoner and Exile's Curse were great representatives of their weapon types.

But that gets to the heart of this issue: the people designing the weapons are not the people balancing the sandbox. They designed a very strong, borderline ideal legendary PvP auto rifle. But the weapon sandbox was imbalanced so severely against ARs, and high-impact ones especially, there was no possible way to design a competitive AR. Jewel was a strong legendary HC and legendary HCs were good... but nobody used them because exotic HCs were dominant.

Point being they tried to make strong weapons, unlike now when they're intentionally designed to not stand out. And don't forget about the armor either. Getting a primary reload and all special weapon reload perk on gauntlets? Plus having grenade throw and melee attack speed across gauntlets and helmet whereas now you can only have one. Chests with more special ammo instead of just sniper/shotgun/fusion/sidearm. Boots with two ammo types. Although I do like the new helmet and boot perks (Angel of mercy, last hope, second wind).
 

Frenden

Banned
But that gets to the heart of this issue: the people designing the weapons are not the people balancing the sandbox. They designed a very strong, borderline ideal legendary PvP auto rifle. But the weapon sandbox was imbalanced so severely against ARs, and high-impact ones especially, there was no possible way to design a competitive AR. Jewel was a strong legendary HC and legendary HCs were good... but nobody used them because exotic HCs were dominant.

Yeah. I kept one HoW version of each impact archetype of each weapon class. I'm guessing they'll never let guns exist with those perksets again. In ten years, in non-power-leveled PvP, those STILL might be the best guns. Which is a bit depressing.

(I don't use them even in regular Crucible because I figure it's counter productive to use year one weapons and then be shit in Banner or Trials because of a lack of familiarity with year two guns, but I'm still going to hold on to the rerollable guns 'cause that's probably never happening again.)
 

coy

Member
PvP is the only thing left that holds my interest until new content drops, but 2.0 killed my shooty shoot soul. Since most folks are pretty down on solo PvP (and who blames them--I'm so sick of getting matchmade into losing teams or being the only person that goes positive), I'm going to try and start a weeknight banner-style train.

6v6, get drunk, shoot things, someone always steering the bus and posting here with slots opened. Treating Crucible as a social experience is about the best value we can get out of it now. That's pretty much the ONLY way I'll do anything except dailies and bounties anymore and it is BRUTAL to try and get people together during the week for Crucible anymore. And the weekends are just Trials, so...

Yeah, weeknight Crucibus for real Crucibros. I'll be loud about it this week.
I'll be on the lookout whenever I am on. I've been mainly Crucible this weekend as I miss Trials groups.
 
Anyone up for some Trials? I wanna try get to Lighthouse...

I'm feeling good, had plenty of practice this weekend. Preferrably like a communicative group.
 

Smiley90

Stop shitting on my team. Start shitting on my finger.
I know what you mean. I've been wanting to get a KF run all weekend but have had no luck.

Thinking about just hanging up the controller for a while and taking a break.

If it makes you happy, we failed

Now I need to get back to work and still need my Oryx kill :(
 
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