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[Lnkn52]

 

[mehrmantrout]

The weaker the weapons get, the stronger things like grenades and melee are going to seem/become.

Holy crap, imagine if Grenade became the new Meta...

It's happening OHK grenades are already starting to annoy me seeing as I don't have one. In normal PvP a magnetic grenade is a kill on a ramlock

 

[lt519]

Yeah so the problem here is we don't have access to base damage. That means nothing to us. We see the output, not the input. So, you guys predicting damage or dps based on the stated percentage changes will always be wrong. The percentage change in damage output (what we see) will always be different than the percentage change in base damage (input, what we don't ever see).

There is where the communication issue arises. We need to be informed of changes in terms of damage output in a few typical cases (like pvp with no range penalty, and pve at same level with no range penalty, etc.) Some base state must be established to communicate changes to us, such that it can be easily tested and verified by us.

That said, yeah, a .04% increase still does next to nothing. But that may be the point. Autos got a very slight change while shotties and pulses were brought down, meaning pulses should be less of an obvious choice for everything.

Fusion rifles were still broken again. Someone at bungie is actively sabotaging fusion rifles.

Well said. I think they did communicate that effectively with the chart showing how many bursts to kill with the Pulse Rifles pre and post patch. That was great stuff and they hit that target. Why they didn't do something similar with ARs for what their goals were is where the problem is. We don't have to know the gritty details, just give us the desired result like they did with PRs and if you decide to change that along the way let us know. Problem solved.

Since the patch, I'm actually doing better in Crucible with a Bad Juju I've got from an engram (before I used Hawksaw and Nirwen's). So after reading the BWU I don't really know if I just don't have consistency and I'm imagining things.

Probably because Bad Juju wasn't nerfed as bad and you aren't getting killed by the more popular guns as fast.

 

[darknil]

Since the patch, I'm actually doing better in Crucible with a Bad Juju I've got from an engram (before I used Hawksaw and Nirwen's). So after reading the BWU I don't really know if I just don't have consistency and I'm imagining things.

And I experienced the LitC nerf, really disappointed in my 314 Eirene, should I infuse my 310 1k Stare (PvE roll)?

 

[LTWood12]

I am Warlock

ha, I know, you need extra life.

I know, I am Warlock

I know, you need extra life.

I am Warlock

 

[BreezyLimbo]

I believe this quote to be quite apt.

But Unstable, what would you know. You can't see all the hidden numbers, so naturally you, and your friends opinions are wrong. We know the numbers, they're working fine on our end, kappa.

Yeah Bungies lost it.

 

[inthrall]

The thing is when you fire a bullet, it rounds up. Unless I'm wrong, the game isn't going to go 'Oh you fired 25 bullets, time to do 1 more damage.'

Quick reply while writing up math (quoting from the Bungie post):

The number shown at a damage event gets scaled by a lot of factors (activity, target, Light level, difficulty, precision, damage type, etc.) and then displayed to the player in combat as rounded whole numbers

 

[todd360]

Vault-Tec just called. Said our new fallout shelter is ready. Our new fallout shelter is bigger and better. Has the indoor pool you requested.

Sick. Lets go swimsuit shopping for the girls! It is a must if our fallout shelter is going to be sufficiently creepy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynnKwLlBjr8

 

[Zoso Achilles]

But Unstable, what would you know. You can't see all the hidden numbers, so naturally you, and your friends opinions are wrong. We know the numbers, they're working fine on our end, kappa.

Yeah Bungies lost it.

They're right, the autos/pulses buff/nerf happened as intended, but that's not the problem. The problem is they convey that information to us with numbers that are more or less meaningless to us. We don't know what base damage is. We don't care how much base damage changes. That's how a 34% change to mythoclast results in a 50% reduction in damage. They may intend one thing, but it appears to us that they screwed up and that causes all kinds of problems. So yeah, communication or something.

 

[Liquidsnake]

Is reddit blowing up?

 

[Unstable]

ha, I know, you need extra life.



I know, you need extra life.

These are outrageous claims. I demand a retraction and a formal apology.

 

[Jinjo]

Here's how I feel about Urk's content re-assurance message: so we had two tiny IB-like microtransaction fueled events in 3 whole months. So basicly what Urk described as the "far larger content" is not coming until March next year since I don't expect them to tighten the release schedule. Since all the TTK events have been pretty small and boring (you can get everything within a day or two) I am not reassured by the "far larger than we've seen"-message. Also it's sure as hell is not gonna be a new raid (or new strikes even) so please tell me exactly how waiting 6 months for the first 'substantial' (let's assume it is substantial for a moment, benefit of the doubt) event is *better* than a 5 month wait for a whole new DLC we had last year?

Timed events are ass, we want actual new *content*.

 

[stay gold]

The nerf to Achlyophage Symbiote is really weird. I've never heard anyone complain about it being op.

Does any other exotic actually punish you for equipping it?

 

[todd360]

Guys, we don't need any new content. We just have to go farm for the other two exotic swords. Destiny 2 should be out by the time were done with that.

 

[EL CUCO]

Well I guess that's that for me in Destiny.

PvE has gotten boring and stale for me and the only enjoyment I was getting was from the Crucible, and even that's a lag infested poop show with no signs of getting better.

Hopefully Destiny 2 comes strong out the box. Not sure I want to deal another situation of Bungie trying to figure out what they're doing while they're doing it.

 

[Zoso Achilles]

Guys, we don't need any new content. We just have to go farm for the other two exotic swords. Destiny 2 should be out by the time were done with that.

You don't have all three? Is that a common thing here? Oh...

 

[Lnkn52]

Guys, we don't need any new content. We just have to go farm for the other two exotic swords. Destiny 2 should be out by the time were done with that.

Destiny 2 is time gated already. Just waiting for them to push the button.

 

[Unstable]

Here'a how I feel about Urk's content re-assurance message: so we had two tiny IB-like microtransaction fueled events in 3 whole months. So basicly what Urk described as the "far larger content" is not coming until March next year since I don't expect them to tighten the release schedule. Since all the TTK events have been pretty small and boring (you can get everything within a day or two) I am not reassured by the "far larger than we've seen"-message. Also it's sure as hell is not gonna be a new raid (or new strikes even) so please tell me exactly how waiting 6 months for the first 'substantial' (let's assume it is substantial for a moment, benefit of the doubt) event is *better* than a 5 month wait for a whole new DLC we had last year?

Timed events are ass, we want actual new *content*.

I'm fairly certain that we're getting expansion-sized like content.

 

[xVaalbarAx]

I'm fairly certain that we're getting expansion-sized like content.

I NEED NUMBERS STABIE

 

[LTWood12]

I'm fairly certain that we're getting expansion-sized like content.

DJ Booya give you the inside scoop?

DrDrizzy sound off on all this pls.

 

[inthrall]

So damage each bullet does is increased or decreased by the percentage given in the BWU, but that doesn't reflect the actual damage difference. If you shoot a gun with base damage increased by 0.04%, a clip of 50 bullets adds that 0.04% onto each bullet. Over the course of the clip, you do (0.04% * 50) = 2% more damage in the same amount of time.


An example with a real gun (Grasp of Malok) which had a 2.97% base damage nerf, while emptying a clip of 30 into an enemy:
0.0297% * 30 = 0.891% less damage

Against a player, assuming two bodyshots of 3 bullets each:
0.0297% * 6 = 0.1782% less damage


To find out how much your gun is affected, simply choose the amount of bullets you want to shoot, and multiply it by the percentage shown on this page The tiny changes are important, because the damage under the scenes is not rounded like what you see visually in-game

 

[BreezyLimbo]

I'm fairly certain that we're getting expansion-sized like content.

I need that in a %. Would you say that the next content update will possibly be .04% bigger than SRL?

 

[X-Frame]

*sigh*

So I guess I'll put my Fabien Strategy back in the vault for another few months?

 

[Deku Tree]

The Ishtar Academy iOS app tells you what your max LL is based upon the gear in your inventory and it will equip your Max LL loadout automatically. That's how I realized my Titan was 319.

 

[Namikaze1]

Sick. Lets go swimsuit shopping for the girls! It is a must if our fallout shelter is going to be sufficiently creepy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynnKwLlBjr8

On this you are alone.

The kitchen though calls for me.

 

[Unstable]

DJ Booya give you the inside scoop?

Boyes don't break NDA's for nobody.

I NEED NUMBERS STABIE

0.04%

 

[figadapaura]

The nerf to Achlyophage Symbiote is really weird. I've never heard anyone complain about it being op.

Does any other exotic actually punish you for equipping it?

Wait, they nerfed Symbiote? How?

 

[Darryl M R]

Fool me three time f**k the peace signs, load the chopper and let it rain on you.

 

[stay gold]

Wait, they nerfed Symbiote? How?

Golden Gun time reduced to 7 seconds with it equipped.

 

[xVaalbarAx]

0.04%

So we are getting Crota's End II: Judgment Day. Got it.

 

[Ruthless_Barbarian]

Wait, they nerfed Symbiote? How?

Reduced the time the super is active.

 

[Jest Chillin]

So people are upset because the AR nerf was a small percentage buff... but people were upset in the past because Bungie buffed/nerfed in bigger numbers making some things OP (Thorn) or other things worthless (ARs)..

Is the problem just that people can't understand that there are underlying factors that adjust what the final damage output is? Or is it that they aren't being told what all those factors are? Or is it that people don't care what the numbers or the factors are, they just want to feel awesome all the time as long as other players aren't more awesome than they are?

 

[figadapaura]

Golden Gun time reduced to 7 seconds with it equipped.

Reduced the time the super is active.

But it's not even active for that long in the first place! Fuck off whoever decided that.

 

[Ruthless_Barbarian]

No email but I just got 3 packs of 3 strange coins at the postmaster.

Early Christmas present? I had received them last time as well, so this is something new..

 

[Kor of Memory]

The nerf to Achlyophage Symbiote is really weird. I've never heard anyone complain about it being op.

Does any other exotic actually punish you for equipping it?

The Celstial nighthawk reduces the amount of golden gun shots you have?

From what I've seen in the PvP community, Symbiote was the only option for exotics for Gunslingers.

I guess this is to discourage that.

 

[Smiley90]

OH MY GOD

Got my third and last win for S class but the game disconnected me after crossing the finish line and the win didnt count

Fuuuuuuck

 

[Afrocious]

Well I'm done with destiny for now until things get better.

I'll log in for reset stuff on Tuesdays but everything else is on he shelf.

The 1000 game challenge is still on but I'm not touching PvP until the crucible isn't a zone of suck and fuckery.

 

[igordennis]

Wait, they nerfed Symbiote? How?

The super rans out way faster. I stopped using it because of that, the fourth shot is useless if you don't even have the time to get 3 good shots in. Im actually upset at this nerf. Sigh..

 

[Kor of Memory]

So people are upset because the AR nerf was a small percentage buff... but people were upset in the past because Bungie buffed/nerfed in bigger numbers making some things OP (Thorn) or other things worthless (ARs)..

Is the problem just that people can't understand that there are underlying factors that adjust what the final damage output is? Or is it that they aren't being told what all those factors are? Or is it that people don't care what the numbers or the factors are, they just want to feel awesome all the time as long as other players aren't more awesome than they are?

The problem is Bungie is flat out telling us numbers that have no meaning to us and are surprised to find out that we misinterpreted them.

Like, if i told you I was 33 years old, except I meant in Lunar years, but didn't tell you Lunar years.

 

[xVaalbarAx]

Well I'm done with destiny for now until things get better.

I'll log in for reset stuff on Tuesdays but everything else is on he shelf.

The 1000 game challenge is still on but I'm not touching PvP until the crucible isn't a zone of suck and fuckery.

What about the racing Afro? The racing?...the racing?

 

[140.85]

OH MY GOD

Got my third and last win for S class but the game disconnected me after crossing the finish line and the win didnt count

Fuuuuuuck

 

[Namikaze1]

OH MY GOD

Got my third and last win for S class but the game disconnected me after crossing the finish line and the win didnt count

Fuuuuuuck

This was me yesterday. Except it would have been my second win. Was leading by a lot when I got disconnected. The finish line was right there. It was right there.

 

[Frenden]

But it's not even active for that long in the first place! Fuck off whoever decided that.

They nerfed it quite a bit, too. It's not worth equipping now IMO.

 

[inthrall]

So people are upset because the AR nerf was a small percentage buff... but people were upset in the past because Bungie buffed/nerfed in bigger numbers making some things OP (Thorn) or other things worthless (ARs)..

Is the problem just that people can't understand that there are underlying factors that adjust what the final damage output is? Or is it that they aren't being told what all those factors are? Or is it that people don't care what the numbers or the factors are, they just want to feel awesome all the time as long as other players aren't more awesome than they are?

People are seeing a % and assume that it means the end result is increased by 0.04%, which isn't the case

 

[xVaalbarAx]

They nerfed it quite a bit, too. It's not worth equipping now IMO.

Yeah let's make the one good Exotic for Gunslingers bad, and oh let's just make Nothing Manacle be nothing as well but it's okay they can have the Ram again (but it's nerf also lol).

 

[Deku Tree]

Changing auto rifle damage by 0.04 percent means they changed the damage to each bullet by 0.0004.

So in a 50 round mag they if every shot hits the same spot then they changed the total damage by

50 x 0.0004 = 0.016 = 1.6%

Can't believe that Bungie is trying to sell this line of "working as intended" garbage to the community.

Why don't they just come out and say

"yeah we royally screwed up the balance patch, but it was messed up for a while and we didn't notice it. And to change it would be expensive. And there is no more room in the budget for further balancing and testing until the next quarterly balance patch. Buy hey we've got Sparrows to race! See you in the tower! Deej, out".

?

 

[D_psipher]

So is anybody doing hm rd challenge mode??

I am.

 

[Ruthless_Barbarian]

Unstable, you forgot to add the decimal in the clan name





oh wait..

 

[JohnOfMars]

So damage each bullet does is increased or decreased by the percentage given in the BWU, but that doesn't reflect the actual damage difference. If you shoot a gun with base damage increased by 0.04%, a clip of 50 bullets adds that 0.04% onto each bullet. Over the course of the clip, you do (0.04% * 50) = 2% more damage in the same amount of time.


An example with a real gun (Grasp of Malok) which had a 2.97% base damage nerf, while emptying a clip of 30 into an enemy:
0.0297% * 30 = 0.891% less damage

Against a player, assuming two bodyshots of 3 bullets each:
0.0297% * 6 = 0.1782% less damage


To find out how much your gun is affected, simply choose the amount of bullets you want to shoot, and multiply it by the percentage shown on this page The tiny changes are important, because the damage under the scenes is not rounded like what you see visually in-game

I think I get what you're saying, but your use of % is very confusing. Your first example seems to be a 4% increase based on how you did your second example.

 

[Jest Chillin]

The problem is Bungie is flat out telling us numbers that have no meaning to us and are surprised to find out that we misinterpreted them.

Like, if i told you I was 33 years old, except I meant in Lunar years, but didn't tell you Lunar years.

I don't think they're surprised per say.. but they've expressed changes the same way every other balance patch and it hasn't resulted in this harsh a reception.

The mistake with the numbers being published and edited and edited again obviously stoked the fires on this one but people haven't even waited for the meta to define itself even a little bit at this point before calling changes worthless.

It just feels more and more like cynicism is taking hold while reason and patience are getting dragged out back and beaten.