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[Arrrammis]

When they nerfed the MIDA and 1,000 Yard Stare, which they characterized as balanced. Rather than ask, why are these balanced weapons popular? What lessons can we take from them to make these other not-balanced weapons also be popular? They nerf them for their popularity.

You cannot simultaneously argue you want players to be powerful and have your balancing methodology be, beat down whatever class or weapon is popular. (Though in the case of the Hunter classes, they did appear to have a higher K/D than the others, so it's understandable.)

Hit the nail on the head. If a single subclass is super popular, then find out why and give the other classes something comparable.There is no other grenade in the game comparable to the tripmine, so make something that other subclasses can use (replaces that completely useless spike grenade plz). It's more difficult than a simple blanket nerf, but that's why we paid $60 for the game +$80 for the expansions so far, not including collectors editions or Eververse stuff.

Do you want a thesis or something? How about a documentary following this team for the past six months as they gather feedback and player preference data? Admittedly, that second one would be kind of cool.

You guys had a point for the 1000 yrd stare and MIDA. 1kys was most used because it was literally the only high impact legendary sniper. Hunters though? They are the go-to PVP class. And that trip mine "nerf" doesn't mean shit. Stop kidding yourselves. Throw it on a wall like it's meant to be used, or use the incendiary (assuming they fix the burn damage bug they introduced).

Definitely agreed on the hunter/tripmine thing. I mentioned tripmine because it combines the best part of two of the other greatest PvP grenades in the game: you can stick people and pretty much one-shot them like you can with a sticky grenade, or you can put it on a wall for area control like you can with a shock grenade. It's completely OP and trivializes the other grenades, I'm surprised it took this long to change it.

 

[Axoman]

Is it possible that the majority of the best players use hunters, thus skewing the K/D ratio?

Hunter is my worst PvP class, I do better with both my Titan and Warlock.

 

[Zoso Achilles]

Three reasonable posts about the chart provided as, "...some of the motivations in the form of science..." and you choose to respond like you have?

Just take a breath and chill, lol...

No, this is the response a small group in this thread has for every balancing patch put out in destiny. Every perceived "nerf" is treated as ruining the game. And the chart is pretty straight forward. You don't need much evidence beyond it that hunters have been over performing in crucible, although I'm certain they could have provided it.

Is it possible that the majority of the best players use hunters, thus skewing the K/D ratio?

Hunter is my worst PvP class, I do better with both my Titan and Warlock.

If that's the case, then we have to ask why the majority of the best players gravitate towards hunters.

 

[Mindlog]

If that's the case, then we have to ask why the majority of the best players gravitate towards hunters.

No one used to skate.
Nerf hunter jump. Nerf Quickdraw. - Balance.

Definitely agreed on the hunter/tripmine thing. I mentioned tripmine because it combines the best part of two of the other greatest PvP grenades in the game: you can stick people and pretty much one-shot them like you can with a sticky grenade, or you can put it on a wall for area control like you can with a shock grenade. It's completely OP and trivializes the other grenades, I'm surprised it took this long to change it.

Why also nerf the damage?
Why not just turn the tripmine into a grenade that spits out flame in pulses to make sure everything is balanced?

 

[2real4tv]

This recent nerf made me uninstall the game bungie is like the antifun police. Will probably be back in September got alot of RL stuff to work on.

 

[JTripper]

Anyone running HM King's Fall? I'd like to get back into raiding weekly to level up enough to be set for Rise of Iron. I'm only 313 titan with malice but I've done HM many times in the past, although I might be a bit rusty from not playing Destiny in so long.

 

[optimus8936]

Wow, people still think the tripmines nerf changes nothing with that grenade? It no longer has the ability to one shot people at full health and you can't stick people. How is that not a major change?

Also, you want to know why people gravitate towards hunter? Because they NERFED the other two classes severely. Hunter has probably been the most balanced class in the game, except for maybe wombo combo, and they nerfed it because it was popular, not because it was an issue. Being popular doesn't make it OP, it just means it's a fun thing to use.

 

[Reptars Revenge]

How is it the hunters fault that people are dumb enough to run into trip mines. I want to see a graph of what ability the subclass uses to get those kills.

 

[Subtervotion]

What did you think it was?

I always thought it was the diamond next to your level in game. Kind of like the thread is level 41.

 

[LTWood12]

 

[SaganIsGOAT]

Uninstall. You're finished.

Rip

How many?

I did something similar with Weapon Parts a while ago.

Several hundred

 

[E92 M3]

Do you want a thesis or something? How about a documentary following this team for the past six months as they gather feedback and player preference data? Admittedly, that second one would be kind of cool.

You guys had a point for the 1000 yrd stare and MIDA. 1kys was most used because it was literally the only high impact legendary sniper. Hunters though? They are the go-to PVP class. And that trip mine "nerf" doesn't mean shit. Stop kidding yourselves. Throw it on a wall like it's meant to be used, or use the incendiary (assuming they fix the burn damage bug they introduced).

Set your afterburner to neutral. It would be nice if they provided more data and information like Blizzard. And you have no idea what you're talking about if tripmine nerf "doesn't mean shit." Tripmines are a joke and no player with a modicum of skill will walk through them.

I don't even play hunter and realized how the nerf was bullshit.

How about Bungie actually provides some interpretation on the data instead of just throwing a chart out there?

And I would highly appreciate a thesis - I know the team is very intelligent.

 

[nowai]

Wasn't paying attention and instead of popping motes of light I deleted all my armor materials 💀

ugh, I totally did that a few months ago. Deleted over a thousand armor mats.

My cries of agony were so severe that my friends in the party chat thought something had happened and I was hurt.

 

[Arrrammis]

Why also nerf the damage?
Why not just turn the tripmine into a grenade that spits out flame in pulses to make sure everything is balanced?

I agree on the damage, since if you walk in to this huge beam of red across a hallway then you pretty much deserve to get rekt. I feel the second question is a bit sarcastic, but completely changing the grenade would make people even angrier IMO.

 

[Lavalamp1138]

Got my first Grasp of Malok. It's got Counterbalance, perfect balance, and glass half full. Is that any good or should I keep farming?

 

[Kalamari]

CB BF Grasp is turnt af

suckas gettin' rekt

 

[spyder_ur]

Wow, people still think the tripmines nerf changes nothing with that grenade? It no longer has the ability to one shot people at full health and you can't stick people. How is that not a major change?

I was so sad when farming Omnigul last week when I threw a tripmine at a thrall and it sadly just dropped to their feet. So much less satisfying.

Also, you want to know why people gravitate towards hunter? Because they NERFED the other two classes severely. Hunter has probably been the most balanced class in the game, except for maybe wombo combo, and they nerfed it because it was popular, not because it was an issue. Being popular doesn't make it OP, it just means it's a fun thing to use.

Why do people keep using the chart to reference hunters are popular and that's why they nerfed them? The chart says nothing at all about popularity of subclasses, unless I'm missing something. It's about K/D ratios. If some subclasses are more effective at killing people/ not dying than others, that seems like an important piece of data in a game that's about that very thing. I'm sure it's not the only thing they're looking at.

 

[cr0w]

ugh, I totally did that a few months ago. Deleted over a thousand armor mats.

My cries of agony were so severe that my friends in the party chat thought something had happened and I was hurt.

A friend of mine had been playing for a couple weeks, and I took him to Vault of Glass for his first run. At the Oracles chest, he pulls a fucking Gjallarhorn and everyone was like, "Hey grats man". He asks me, "Is this thing any good?" and I jokingly told him no, it was crap and just dismantle it for the shard. He proceeds to do just that and mentions it in voice chat.

It was like someone had just stabbed the other four people that were in the group with us live on mic right in the balls.

 

[Kalamari]

Got my first Grasp of Malok. It's got Counterbalance, perfect balance, and glass half full. Is that any good or should I keep farming?

That's a keeper alright. Counterbalanced plus braced frame is a bit more stable, but you will still wreck faces with that roll.

 

[Axoman]

If that's the case, then we have to ask why the majority of the best players gravitate towards hunters.

Overall, hunters probably have the easiest jump to use and is most accurate.

In year 1, when blink shotgun ran supreme, blade dancers ruled with blink and quickdraw. Also, arcbolt was a very powerful grenade.

Year 2, wombo combo and shadestep increased the popularity of nightstalkers.

Gunslingers had their tripmines.

I think the main reason better players gravitate towards them because of the mobility and neutral game.

I'd like to see that chart broken out with the players overall K/D that are using those subclasses. I'd wager that those players with the highest Hunter K/D probably have high K/D overall. I highly doubt the sub 1.0 Titan and Warlocks are all positive with their hunters.

 

[Lavalamp1138]

That's a keeper alright. Counterbalanced plus braced frame is a bit more stable, but you will still wreck faces with that roll.

Awesome thanks

Edit: is there a recommended scope between Red Dot ORS1, focus lens fla5, and truesight is?

 

[Zoso Achilles]

Set your afterburner to neutral. It would be nice if they provided more data and information like Blizzard. And you have no idea what you're talking about if tripmine nerf "doesn't mean shit." Tripmines are a joke and no player with a modicum of skill will walk through them.

I don't even play hunter and realized how the nerf was bullshit.

How about Bungie actually provides some interpretation on the data instead of just throwing a chart out there?

And I would highly appreciate a thesis - I know the team is very intelligent.

So what you're telling me is the majority of trip mine kills are sticks? Yeah, I don't believe that. The damage reduction doesn't matter in that case, either. If you never get kills with trip mines by throwing them on surfaces, then that certainly didn't change. Also, I'm probably the only player stupid enough to not run high armor in PVP. Everyone else can tank a trip mine blast (to get cleaned up in one shot). So like, start using trip mines the way they were intended. Put them on walls as area denial and engagement starters. They prime your target for you to finish them off.

Awesome thanks

Edit: is there a recommended scope between Red Dot ORS1, focus lens fla5, and truesight is?

Not ORS1. Never ORS1.

 

[E92 M3]

So what you're telling me is the majority of trip mine kills are sticks? Yeah, I don't believe that. The damage reduction doesn't matter in that case, either. If you never get kills with trip mines by throwing them on surfaces, then that certainly didn't change. Also, I'm probably the only player stupid enough to not run high armor in PVP. Everyone else can tank a trip mine blast (to get cleaned up in one shot). So like, start using trip mines the way they were intended. Put them on walls as area denial and engagement starters. They prime your target for you to finish them off.


Not ORS1. Never ORS1.

I could understand them removing the stick function (doesn't mean I agree with it), but the 10% nerf to damage was meaningless. Even if you don't run max armor (I don't either), no one just walks through them. I rarely see anyone get killed by them in my matches.

 

[Liamc723]

This recent nerf made me uninstall the game bungie is like the antifun police. Will probably be back in September got alot of RL stuff to work on.

Manny

 

[Kadey]

What's the patch for?

 

[neoism]

Hotfix limited Players in Activity to 10 people max, which seemed to be the issue with Trials and IB.

Trials might come back tomorrow and IB is back on Tuesday.

https://www.bungie.net/en/News/Article/44879/

Unrelated, Hunters popularity meant we need to make them less fun:

-_-
damn u bungle

 

[JTripper]

Will I be able to to do the nightfall at 313 light?

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Do you want a thesis or something? How about a documentary following this team for the past six months as they gather feedback and player preference data? Admittedly, that second one would be kind of cool.

You guys had a point for the 1000 yrd stare and MIDA. 1kys was most used because it was literally the only high impact legendary sniper. Hunters though? They are the go-to PVP class. And that trip mine "nerf" doesn't mean shit. Stop kidding yourselves. Throw it on a wall like it's meant to be used, or use the incendiary (assuming they fix the burn damage bug they introduced).

Y'know

something I notice

is that whenever somebody criticizes Bungle, for whatever reason, you come in and immediately defend them without question. And you do it in a condescending way too, 'Do you want a thesis?' It's like bruh...get out.

I mean....people have valid points that Bungies balance is a bit loop in regards to the state of the game.Their incessant need to balance PvE/PvP together. There are real balance problems that Bungie is creating.

 

[stay gold]

The problem with that chart is it doesn't account for difference in skill floor/ceiling among classes.

Gunslinger has a high K/D because it's easy for new players to pick up and get kills with, at higher levels it's still a decent class, but better than Striker or Stormcaller? No chance.

 

[Lee]

Do you think that 6v6 chart includes all 6v6 gametypes? If it includes Mayhem, a ton of people use GG in Mayhem because it's awesome. If it includes Inferno, it's fun as hell to run BD due to invisibility being amazing when no one has radar. If it includes classic, I'm sure there is some percentage of players still running pre-TTK Destiny who don't have the new subclasses, making Hunter an easier choice.

I don't know, just some thoughts. I know it doesn't make sense to balance solely off of Trials, but that's all I play these days and I never feel like hunters are that great/scary in Trials. Usually if we inspect a team while flying in and see 3 hunters, it's a relief.

I want to trust that Bungie looked incredibly deeply at the data before making these changes, but I've been around long enough to remember shit like the Suros/Auto-Rifle super-nerf, and the graph they used was during Iron Banner when everyone had an auto-rifle bounty every day.

 

[neoism]

I always thought it was the diamond next to your level in game. Kind of like the thread is level 41.

dont feel bad lol I thought it was just a 2d Octahedron.. Kappa

 

[Kalamari]

Awesome thanks

Edit: is there a recommended scope between Red Dot ORS1, focus lens fla5, and truesight is?

Sorry to break this to you, but ORS1 is the worst of the red dots. It gives a lot of zoom for a red dot which means you lose some peripheral vision and the scope obscures vision. I would go with the Truesight, it has no zoom, and gives benefits to stability, reload, handling and aim assist. The front sight covers up some of the lower half of the sight picture however.

 

[NakedRescue]

No, this is the response a small group in this thread has for every balancing patch put out in destiny. Every perceived "nerf" is treated as ruining the game. And the chart is pretty straight forward. You don't need much evidence beyond it that hunters have been over performing in crucible, although I'm certain they could have provided it.

LMAO, so you're not actually responding to those recent posts, OK...

If one actually engages with the information presented in that chart, rather than the, purposely depicted gulf between those pretty colored lines, the "OMG Hunters are so OP" narrative doesn't hold up. Less than .20 difference from lowest to highest average K/D is the problem with the crucible? Really?

 

[ocean]

Too early to get a PvP train going? Haven't rolled with a GAF crew in a while

 

[darkistheway]

And for the record the difference between 1.00 and 1.05 is not particularly significant. Especially when you don't give actual usage numbers. Maybe good players use hunters and the KD gets a bit inflated.

I am willing to bet it won't change.

Hunter classes will still be the favorite because of their mobility and supers.

So what will be the point of the nerf? Will they keep nerfing until all the hunters are at this all-important 1.0 KD ratio where everything is magically fun?

On a related note: walking into a Tripmine should be a kill. Because it means you weren't paying attention. And you deserve to die.

 

[Homeboyd]

Have 2 spots for Atheon if anyone wants to play real quick. Killing x3.

PSN Homeboyd

 

[zewone]

I thought Trip Mines were supposed to be nerfed?

I'm still getting one shot by them and I run max armor.

 

[katsubento]

The thing about 1K Yard State being the most used is also because...They gave one to everyone during the quest. Besides the high impact and decent roll, everyone got one for free. Of course it's going to be used Bungie.

 

[stay gold]

I thought Trip Mines were supposed to be nerfed?

I'm still getting one shot by them and I run max armor.

They can 1 shot if they throw it directly off you and then you step on it, but thats the only way.

 

[FyreWulff]

The weird thing about the 1k debuff was they also actually buffed every single sniper in the game for Trials minus the lowest tier at the same time. Part of the reason it was popular was because it was one of the few res-snipe snipers. Well, in that same update, they made it so every sniper minus the lowest tier was res-snipe capable in Trials. And then they moved Ice Breaker down to that tier to keep people from using it as a regen res sniper.

 

[sajj316]

Rusty raiding tonight boys ... Oh yeah!!

Fruck Luke Smith .. Just cause ...

 

[Trakan]

Who cares about that stuff as long as I get a 51.0K/D in control with no caps

Kills are most important in control, so even with 1 flag if you have a 51 k/d chances are you'd win.

 

[darkistheway]

The vendor Righteous VII is a very good auto. Very stable and decent range.

Recommended.

 

[chur]

The vendor Righteous VII is a very good auto. Very stable and decent range.

Recommended.

Yup. Love using it, I might get a second one.

 

[Dez_]

The vendor Righteous VII is a very good auto. Very stable and decent range.

Recommended.

Gonna need to give that a try. Need to get out of using pulse rifles so much, been wanting to use more auto rifles and scouts (besides Mida).

 

[desgrafx]

Rusty raiding tonight boys ... Oh yeah!!

Fruck Luke Smith .. Just cause ...

Wish I could join! Kill'em All !!!

 

[TheTylerDurden]

heroic vanguard strikes with that epic arc burrrrn

mini train leaving in 10 minutes. Room for 2. Will have booster.

No orbit stops (vanguard streak!)

edit; Update takin forever

 

[Kadey]

Wat.

 

[darthbob]

Wat.

I believe this can happen if you're in a Fireteam, you jump on your teammates' head and then said teammate disconnects. If you stay perfectly still, then you just float.

 

[sajj316]

Wat.

That last second head turn ..