The aim assist is absurd; he didn't line up a shot. He literally steps out and pulls the trigger in less than a second and it's a perfect shot in my head.
You don't have his perspective to say that he didn't line up the shot that quickly. I've lined up and shot people in the head in "less than a second." Not every sniper shot is landed with no skill involved.
This is the same line of logic that is turning the game into a nerf dart simulator.
You don't have his perspective to say that he didn't line up the shot that quickly. I've lined up and shot people in the head in "less than a second." Not every sniper shot is landed with no skill involved.
This is the same line of logic that is turning the game into a nerf dart simulator.
Scopes are slower than they've ever been. Ammo for secondaries is lower than it's ever been. Low zoom scopes are less effective and higher zoom.
The problem is that primaries have been nerfed into the ground and can no longer effectively challenge secondaries. If your assault rifle hadn't been nerfed by people crying foul about it as you are about snipers, that fellow would've been dead before he shot.
Hawkmoon, TLW, and even--god help me--Thorn used to challenge snipers before the nerf cascade turned PvP into shooter molasses.
Now? Secondaries reign supreme. Thank god they nerfed Doctrine, right?
Scopes are slower than they've ever been. Ammo for secondaries is lower than it's ever been. Low zoom scopes are less effective and higher zoom.
The problem is that primaries have been nerfed into the ground and can no longer effectively challenge secondaries. If your assault rifle hadn't been nerfed by people crying foul about it as you are about snipers, that fellow would've been dead before he shot.
Hawkmoon, TLW, and even--god help me--Thorn uses to challenge snipers before the nerf cascade turned PvP into shooter molasses.
Now? Secondaries reign supreme. Thank god they nerfed Doctrine, right?
Hand Cannons in general would've been always been a good sniper counter if they had only nerfed the exotic HC and not HC in general, which wasn't the problem. Doctrine was the only thing keeping secondaries from being king because it brought a fun aggressive play style that a lot of people enjoyed, making sniping less prevalent.
Now there's nothing like that, leading to more sniping.
You can see the red glint of the sniper scope as he steps back out, dude. He out-shot you, plain and simple. The slide snipe you posted isn't all that crazy, either. The player pulled off a really amazing shot and you died.
Also, the dude was using NLB, which is very easy to line up close quarter head shots to the iron sights, if that clip showed any other sniper, I would think differently, but with NLB I see nothing wrong with that, the guy just had good aim.
AA doesn't equal instant head shots, sniping actually does take plenty of skill, no matter how much AA it has on it.
Edit: a Longbow with SLR10, rifled barrel and hidden hand is no different than a crappy roll on a 1000 yard if your a crappy sniper, even if the longbow has way more AA.
Like many have said in the past, look at the meta. Everything is low impact except secondaries. Bungie wants to be too much like COD and less like Bungie. Hmm...Activision?? I say release the high impact weapons and watch the number of snipers drop. Flinch needs to come back. HC's weren't the only weapons in the stable. Hell Y1 suros and lets call it a day. I won more battles with snipers with suros, but then again snipers weren't like they are now. Just like shotguns aren't the way they were y1.
I personally don't think primaries have anything to do with the sniper problem. I can be lighting a guy up with the Mida or Hawksaw, and he takes 2-3 shots and just eats it and domes me no problem. The range patch changed everything back like a week before TTK dropped. It gave the snipers mega aim assist. You used to have to have had some skill to be good at sniping. Now the aim assist values make everyone good at sniping. It's something I noticed immediately. I started pulling off shots I had no business landing. Anybody can land those shots now. People miss a lot less. It's pretty much the reason I went from playing PVP daily for hours on end to maybe once a week with Trials or once a month with IB.
There's a reason why the 1000 Yard Stare was the most popular special weapon of all time. It was the one available during TTK after the range patch with the cranked up AA values. I think the scope nerfs were good but the aim assist is why snipers are so dominant and godlike now.
As for those gifs posted earlier, you could possibly argue that the guy popped out and aimed quickly for the first one, but the sliding one is something else. There's no skill involved there. It's all aim assist and luck. There's nothing impressive there.
For the second gif, the guy misses that 9 out of 10 times. It's a non issue. Guy got lucky, nerf everything!
And you can absolutely ADS and aim quicker than Zew was shot if you're good at sniping. Period. Even with low AA, low range snipers. Stillpiercer has 51 AA and middling range and yet...
The problem is primaries. Primaries cannot challenge secondaries any more. Doctrine, TLW, and ARs would counter shotties. Hand cannons and scouts would counter snipers. But primary ttk and accuracy/bloom have taken huge hits.
All kinds of issues around sniping. We've seen some GIFs posted here by Igor etc that show the problem (although the reaction seems to be the all knowing wink-wink that everyone knows its broken).
I'm not saying this doesn't require skill. It does - I can't outsnipe anyone. But it is frustrating to be headshotted while in mid air at high speed, or when running around a corner.
I have no answer to this, but I definitely would like to see snipers flinch more. Not sure what happened to that. I can hit someone with two body shots and a head shot with a scout and as long as they still have a hair of health, I am beaten with a headshot from a sniper.
But I'm presuming that flinching isn't a big deal, maybe someone who snipes a lot can let me know if that's correct or not.
A lot of Bungies nerfs have been terrible, I don't trust them with nerfing snipers anymore than they already have. They killed doctrine, they've killed pulses a couple times, they nerfed Mida(for no reason), nerfed shotguns(affected PVE, changed nothing in PvP), killed firebolts, killed sunbreaker, hurt Hunters(again, for no good reason), this list can go on for a while.
Bungie needs to stop nerfing things unless they are blatantly OP, which nothing is outright overpowered, everything is just meh. I would say they should buff things more than nerf, but I don't know if they would handle that better than nerfs.
Although some of their more recent buffs have been good, like the HC buff, void walker buff, etc.
For the second gif, the guy misses that 9 out of 10 times. It's a non issue. Guy got lucky, nerf everything!
And you can absolutely ADS and aim quicker than Zew was shot if you're good at sniping. Period. Even with low AA, low range snipers. Stillpiercer has 51 AA and middling range and yet...
The problem is primaries. Primaries cannot challenge secondaries any more. Doctrine, TLW, and ARs would counter shotties. Hand cannons and scouts would counter snipers. But primary ttk and accuracy/bloom have taken huge hits.
I'm curious. You seemed to be almost done with your loading animation on your hand cannon. What made you, in that situation, want to pull out a sniper? You were very close to the guy. Wouldn't you think you'd have a higher chance of killing him with the weapon more made for that range?
The fact that (not for me, but clearly for you) a sniper is viable at that range is a little...nuts.
I'm curious. You seemed to be almost done with your loading animation on your hand cannon. What made you, in that situation, want to pull out a sniper? You were very close to the guy. Wouldn't you think you'd have a higher chance of killing him with the weapon more made for that range?
The fact that (not for me, but clearly for you) a sniper is viable at that range is a little...nuts.
I can't really speak for him. But I feel like it's a spur of the moment type thing. He had to switch weapons to cancel the reload , but the guy was ready to shoot him, so he decided to quick pull out the sniper instead of taking the time to switch back to his primary, and it worked smoothly.
At least that's what it looks like from my perspective.
I'm curious. You seemed to be almost done with your loading animation on your hand cannon. What made you, in that situation, want to pull out a sniper? You were very close to the guy. Wouldn't you think you'd have a higher chance of killing him with the weapon more made for that range?
The fact that (not for me, but clearly for you) a sniper is viable at that range is a little...nuts.
I knew I could at least body him and then melee which is a quicker kill than trying to land three mid-impact tier hand cannon shots. I was too low health for the primary to kill him before I'd die. It was a high risk, high reward situation with no downside--I was dead if I couldn't pull it off either way.
Every MP game will have its BS, and Destiny is no exception to that, you just have to learn to except it because it's unavoidable. Just because something can be BS sometimes, doesn't make it nerf worthy. If snipers get nerfed again, I fear for their state in PVE, especially if they added more flinch, or descoping. PVE would be horrific, and raids would be a pain. Imagine trying to shoot, say warpriest, with a sniper, but he descoped you every time he barely touched you, and he hits all 6 of you with one shot and now you can't do any real dps because you can't ADS, or if their was more flinching, his head would be a pain to hit.
Like Frenden said, it happens, but doesn't happen often, and you just have to live with it.
I can't land sniper shots for shit, no amount of AA will save me. I can shoot at you twice and you can switch from primary to secondary and dome me before I could kill you lol
I was having fun with Fusion Rifles for weeks before sniping for a few games. The highlight snipes are so much easier to hit, but it reminds me of all the lame instagib servers from the past.
Every MP game will have its BS, and Destiny is no exception to that, you just have to learn to except it because it's unavoidable. Just because something can be BS sometimes, doesn't make it nerf worthy. If snipers get nerfed again, I fear for their state in PVE, especially if they added more flinch, or descoping. PVE would be horrific, and raids would be a pain. Imagine trying to shoot, say warpriest, with a sniper, but he descoped you every time he barely touched you, and he hits all 6 of you with one shot and now you can't do any real dps because you can't ADS, or if their was more flinching, his head would be a pain to hit.
Like Frenden said, it happens, but doesn't happen often, and you just have to live with it.
I'm sure most gaffers don't care or aren't interested, but I'm running heroic strikes for fun with vanguard booster if anybody wants to join up, feel free
There once was a Titan, high above the mountains. This Titan would sit there, living his life, staring into a metal tube with two pieces of glass in it.
One day, a snake came upon him. The Snake asked, 'Why are you staring through that peculiar object?'
"To shoot the enemy down." The Snake left for the night, as the Titan continued staring through his lense.
The next day, the Snake came back. Once again, he asked, 'Why do admire your metal object so?'
"It gives me great strength in my dexterity, so that I may bury my fury into my foes skull" replied the Titan, growing irritated from the distraction. The snake slithered away again, going through the grass.
The snake came back again the very next day. The Titan was prepared this time. "Little Snake, I saw you coming from across the ridge. I could have ended you with great accuracy and to no ire of my own. Speak, for this is the last time I will sate you."
The Snake stared at the great Titan. moss was growing on his armor, for he had remained in his spot for much time before the Snake came to him. The snake hissed, a sound natural to it. And it said very clearly:
'Oh Titan. As you have stared into your metal object, deep in trance with the foes that you seek, you have not noticed that I have laid my poison upon you. And even though you can spot me from across the ridge, you did not spot me delving my fangs into you one last time, for three times I have laid my venom upon you, and for three times that will be the death of you.'
The Titan reeled. The paralysis had overcome. "Little Snake, who are you to do this great injustice to me?" The Snake hissed one last time, before he went along his way.
'I am nothing but a Thorn in these hills, once I was a great hunter in these mountains, but it is creatures like you that have diminished me. So I shall apply my poison to you 3 times, so that you may know the power that I once had.'
The Snake slithered away. The Titan sat there, contemplating for the last few minutes of his watch. One last time, he stared into his scope. "Maybe I should have not stared down this scope, for all that I could see, I could not see that which was around me."
Dude, thousands of hours of playtime, that level of bullshit happened a handful of times. And I posted it as an example of a one in a thousand play--I said as much. If that were happening often, it would be broken. I didn't say that play was high skill. I said it in support of the concept that flukes happen. Flukes happening does not mean you should crater the weapon class.
For every one of those plays, there are hundreds like this that I guarantee people on the other team raged about as "bullshit."
Last thought of mine on snipers--I'd rather they made snipers flinch more readily and lowered AA than what they did. They made them ADS slower and increased zoom. They made it harder to quickscope or drag-snipe. They didn't do anything to stop low skill players from hardscoping lanes.
The problem with snipers in no particular order, bodyshot damage is too high, insane AA and my biggest bugbear complete lack of penalty whilst being shot in the head
1.
Besides sniping itself, I always challenge them with scouts and pulses. You have to know when to pick your battles. Some times you lose, some times you win. Simple. For me more often the latter. A single sniper is never a problem. Remember this is a team based game. Every thing else around affects how the match goes.
Not sure how to feel about my two hours of Heroic Strikes. I'd rather have done classic playlist for the funner strikes. Saw Winters Run x 4, Dust Palace x 3 for sure. Got a decent Treads Upon Stars for strike specific loot. Got 2 exotics (from like 13 SCs) 334 Light Beyond Nemesis (Int/Dis), and a 335 Impossible Machines with Int/Str so that ones a keeper for Stormy. Also has Sniper Reload and Fast Punch.
However I will say, I think Bungie needs to consider heavily increasing drops in these because usually one person was getting one thing every 3 or so matches. That's absurd for a lot game IMO.
Digging the hell out of the Longbow I got earlier. Not sure if I like it more then my 1KYS with Firefly but it seems really nice and way more Aim Assisty
Gotta agree with both sides here in regards to the snipers, specially with Frenden though. Bungie has been nerfing everything that was "better" than other weapons which leaves people no other option than to use their secondaries, there's a reason lots of players are running with the Universal Remote and No Land Beyond nowadays. The constant change of the meta and how it is right now coupled with the SBMM ruined the game for me and it basically forced me to adapt to the meta which made everything boring after a while, it also made me sell off the game eventually after playing since launch, Destiny was basically the only game I regulary played on consoles.
Red Death? Nerf it till it becomes mediocre. auto rifles? "They were used way too much, lets nerf them" (worst explanation for a nerf in recent history imo), funny how the only real competitive archetype of auto rifle gets nerfed a few times and I'm sure this won't be the last time. High impact pulse rifles? Burn them to the ground till they become the worst archetype of pulses. Then there's also that thing with handcannons in which Bungie can't decide what to do with them, right now they're in a pretty good spot so I gotta give them that, same goes for fusions. Shotguns? Bungie: ¯_(ツ_/¯
And lets not talk about exotics which seem to be outplayed by almost every other legendary with good rolls. And the nerf of perks like counterbalance, oh god, they really want to lower the TTK of primaries don't they?
Rushing with your shotgun is much more effective than using a mid impact AR while being a bit further than fusion rifle range for example. Same goes for scouts and snipers, why trying to win a long range battle with a scout that mostly has shit perks (thanks to the plethora of useless perks most of the weapons roll with) when you can 1/2 shot someone with a sniper?
A few months ago I'd complain about the AA on snipers and while it can be pretty high at times I'm now convinced that that is not the main problem, 85% of the primaries in the game are not useful if you really want to perform well or are doing high level play. An increase to flinch wouldn't be a bad idea though, I mean if you're sniping and someone's already firing at your head then your chances of hitting that player should be veeeeery low imo.
I sometimes think we're asking too much of Bungie when it comes to nerfs/buffs. The company is full of talented people but their balancing philosophy is pretty bad... "seasonal balance patches, every weapontype needs their chance to shine". I can understand nerfing stuff like the Vex Mythoclast, Suros Regime, TLW/Thorn etc etc but I can't understand what they're thinking when making whole archetypes or even weapon types almost useless in pvp/pve.
tl;dr: what are you guys thinking sometimes Bungie?
What annoys me is Bungie had snipers down to a T in Halo, Power weapons but in the wrong situation easy to counter.
If I walk into a corridor and someone hard scoping takes my head off fair play. But there is far too much aim assist, quick scoping is a killer and the penalty of getting shot while aiming just isn't there.
Remove the aim assist, descope when shot, increase flinch. But then no one would use them again, so what do I know.
Also I think shotguns should be faster firing but a two shot kill, so you need to be in shotgun melee range or close enough you can land both shots.
Sorry, ended up jammin' some Trials with a couple of friends. Thanks though! I need to get my Iron Banner bounties all done by tomorrow so I'll definitely be looking to group up again.
Last thought of mine on snipers--I'd rather they made snipers flinch more readily and lowered AA than what they did. They made them ADS slower and increased zoom. They made it harder to quickscope or drag-snipe. They didn't do anything to stop low skill players from hardscoping lanes.
So we're in agreement here, the AA is too high. I think flinch and descope would help things but it again doesn't stop low skill players from hardscoping a corner waiting for you to come around. I liked the zoom change. Let's face it, they're sniper rifles. They're supposed to be used as long range weapons. Even with the zoom change, it didn't really do anything. They're just as good at close range as ever. With the ADS thing, we're talking about fractions of seconds here. It doesn't really change how snipers perform.
I agree that Bungie has definitely nerfed things for the wrong reasons or just completely overnerfed things in general before. When it comes to things that are super broken and OP, I don't mind them getting nerfed into the ground. Snipers are currently in that tier.
For everyone saying how overnerfed things get, a lot of that is untrue though. Things like handcannons and autorifles are true examples of that. The Doctrine is still the best autorifle in the game and probably in the top 5 weapons for PVP. Pulse rifles are still the best primary weapon class in the game overall. Bladedancers got "nerfed into oblivion" yet are still the most used Hunter subclass.
What annoys me is Bungie had snipers down to a T in Halo, Power weapons but in the wrong situation easy to counter.
If I walk into a corridor and someone hard scoping takes my head off fair play. But there is far too much aim assist, quick scoping is a killer and the penalty of getting shot while aiming just isn't there.
Remove the aim assist, descope when shot, increase flinch. But then no one would use them again, so what do I know.
Also I think shotguns should be faster firing but a two shot kill, so you need to be in shotgun melee range or close enough you can land both shots.
All of these things would be fine if, you know, the sniper rifle was still a power weapon. It's now a weapon that 6 people on a team can spawn in with, all of whom also spawn in with ammo. Now it's the most busted broken thing in the game.
What annoys me is Bungie had snipers down to a T in Halo, Power weapons but in the wrong situation easy to counter.
If I walk into a corridor and someone hard scoping takes my head off fair play. But there is far too much aim assist, quick scoping is a killer and the penalty of getting shot while aiming just isn't there.
Remove the aim assist, descope when shot, increase flinch. But then no one would use them again, so what do I know.
Also I think shotguns should be faster firing but a two shot kill, so you need to be in shotgun melee range or close enough you can land both shots.
Quick scoping needs to be massively reduced in effectiveness. All you have to do is aim in their general direction and tap scope and fire and you hit them. Every now and then it's a headshot.
Flinching and AA definitely need to be tweaked a bit, but body shot damage and descoping should never be changed, cause like I said earlier, PVE would be a mess. Right now, snipers are King in PVE and nerfing body shot damage would suuuuuuck for a PVE player. Same with descoping. How frustrating would it be to be sniping and to all of a sudden not be able to aim cause someone's shooting you?
Descoping and body shot damage would hurt PVE way more than it helps PvP and it would just make sniping a chore to do. Flinching and AA are really the easiest solution that won't affect PVE a whole bunch.
Basically I want Bungie to actually think about PVE instead of just blindly nerfing something because of PvP.
Some people are extremely good with snipers. If you go against a good player, you will feel it. The problem is that Bungie nerfed every other weapon that could compete with snipers.
Flinching and AA definitely need to be tweaked a bit, but body shot damage and descoping should never be changed, cause like I said earlier, PVE would be a mess. Right now, snipers are King in PVE and nerfing body shot damage would suuuuuuck for a PVE player. Same with descoping. How frustrating would it be to be sniping and to all of a sudden not be able to aim cause someone's shooting you?
Descoping and body shot damage would hurt PVE way more than it helps PvP and it would just make sniping a chore to do. Flinching and AA are really the easiest solution that won't affect PVE a whole bunch.
Basically I want Bungie to actually think about PVE instead of just blindly nerfing something because of PvP.
I'll keep saying this over and over again, but no more nerfs. Bungie doesn't know how to reasonably nerf. We need weapons to be brought up. Year 2 is already slow as fuck compared to the fantastic year 1.
