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Destiny |OT41| Don't Worry, Leave Happy

F

Frenden

Banned
I matchmade into my second game against WYL. He had a premade, I had blueberries. I pushed B. Everyone on my team stayed at A.

I got Grasp'd twice, my phone started to ring, I said fuck that, and orbit'd.

I just wanted to test my sniper drop, not sweat with WYL's premade while solo queueing with randoms who refuse to push a second capture point.

Thanks, SBMM!
 
The Lamonster

The Lamonster

Member
phen0m24 said:
You may be in the minority there, Lamonster. As admittedly bad as the engine seems to be with update cycles and such, a new start might be just what the doctor ordered. I think a healthy number of us would like to see the core mechanics (shooting/movement/supers) remain but the RNG, weapon/character balancing, activities and so forth change.

People asking for 60 FPS might be pushing it though
Click to expand...
Trakan said:
Can you explain why?

I want a Halo: CE to Halo 2 quality jump.
Click to expand...
I think the current engine is amazing. The only room for improvement is 60fps and a wider FOV. Starting fresh means there's no guarantee the original player base will carry over. It means certain systems that are already working well may get altered in the mix. It means we may have some kooky guardian import system. It means a guaranteed $60 price point. It means Destiny 1 will eventually no longer receive dev support. It means if we want to play through old content, we'll have to swap discs and hope our progress somehow carries onto D2.

The good thing about a fully-fledged Destiny 2 is that we may potentially see the end of the Playstation exclusive bullshit. I play on X1 because of the Elite controller, and honestly you guys don't know what you're missing :) This game needs to support rumble triggers, though. It's pretty nice on Halo 5. Too bad Halo 5 sucks. I digress...
 
O

optimus8936

Banned
Frenden said:
I matchmade into my second game against WYL. He had a premade, I had blueberries. I pushed B. Everyone on my team stayed at A.

I got Grasp'd twice, my phone started to ring, I said fuck that, and orbit'd.

I just wanted to test my sniper drop, not sweat with WYL's premade while solo queueing with randoms who refuse to push a second capture point.

Thanks, SBMM!
Click to expand...
I know how you feel. After not playing for a month, I decided to play a few games of Control to see how it felt. First game, I got put up against SaturdayNights. I was pissed man. Not the best hing to come back to.
 
F

FyreWulff

Member
Frenden said:
RIP, SBMM matches based ONLY on the highest person the fireteam.

https://mobile.twitter.com/_mantis_/status/745662580346105856

How nuanced. How smart. How did they admit that publicly and think it was a good idea?
Click to expand...

This is how 90% of skillmatch systems work (choosing either the topmost skill or a single team composite skill) because the mathematics of creating 1 for 1 skilled teams on both sides takes way too long.

For example inviting me, Kor of Memory, and our friend Ratsult to Halo 3 BTB parties was basically a guarantee to pull teams of Generals on the other side.
 
E

EloquentM

aka Mannny
It makes sense making it that way from a dev standpoint (edit: it makes sense in the context of SBMM but obviously not in the wake of the superior CBMM) but it really sucks for people who aren't good like me. This explains why I do much better playing solo.
 
R

Reluctant-Hero

Member
Got damn, I just had a double exotic engram drop in my first IB match. One primary & one special.

Please, please, please let it be a Universal Remote, RNGesus. I want to be a "Douche Bag Titan" so badly.
 
E

EloquentM

aka Mannny
S

SpecX

Member
Reluctant-Hero said:
Got damn, I just had a double exotic engram drop in my first IB match. One primary & one special.

Please, please, please let it be a Universal Remote, RNGesus. I want to be a "Douche Bag Titan" so badly.
Click to expand...

137593505136.jpg
Click to expand...

Fixed
 
F

FyreWulff

Member
Frenden said:
I don't care. It sucks.
Click to expand...

I won't bother explaining how Bungie games have worked for the past 12 years then. This isn't new for any of us that came from the Halo side.

CoD doesn't use SBMM and does juuuust fine.
Click to expand...

CoD is also a completely different game where high churn game style meant prioritizing skill in search matching was less important to them. SBMM has been a thing since Halo 2. For me, it just seems like everyone that came in from the CoD side isn't used to people breathing down their neck more in games and pulling away, and the Halo crowd isn't used to join in progress and other such mechanics.

Either way the ideal environment for any skill match system is FFA. Making it work for teams, and fast, isn't one of it's strong points, but people want to play with their buddies, so this is where social expectation overrides the engineer's perfect world.

edit: I apologize if this comes across as me saying "you're wrong", I'm not. I understand why people don't like SBMM. Just offering the perspective of why it's done.
 
SlimySnake

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
I understand the need for SSBM, but in a game with a dwindling population, connection should always be prioritized. Yes, there is a chance that you might get stuck in a lobby against a pro like Kadey, but if the lobby is balanced correctly when creating teams you should have close games without the need of SSBM to create lobbies.
 
C

chur

Member
FyreWulff said:
This is how 90% of skillmatch systems work because the mathematics of creating 1 for 1 skilled teams on both sides takes way too long.

For example inviting me, Kor of Memory, and our friend Ratsult to Halo 3 BTB parties was basically a guarantee to pull teams of Generals on the other side.
Click to expand...

This. Halo 5 still does this from what I hear.
 
T

Trakan

Member
FyreWulff said:
I won't bother explaining how Bungie games have worked for the past 12 years then. This isn't new for any of us that came from the Halo side.



CoD is also a completely different game where high churn game style meant prioritizing skill in search matching was less important to them. SBMM has been a thing since Halo 2. For me, it just seems like everyone that came in from the CoD side isn't used to people breathing down their neck more in games and pulling away, and the Halo crowd isn't used to join in progress and other such mechanics.

Either way the ideal environment for any skill match system is FFA. Making it work for teams, and fast, isn't one of it's strong points, but people want to play with their buddies, so this is where social expectation overrides the engineer's perfect world.

edit: I apologize if this comes across as me saying "you're wrong", I'm not. I understand why people don't like SBMM. Just offering the perspective of why it's done.
Click to expand...

The incredibly important note to make here is that in both H2 and H3, SBMM was completely optional based on what gametype you played. You had Team Slayer/Skirmish which were ranked playlists and Team Training/Social which were not. Correct?

Destiny doesn't have that.
 
F

FyreWulff

Member
Trakan said:
The incredibly important note to make here is that in both H2 and H3, SBMM was completely optional based on what gametype you played. You had Team Slayer/Skirmish which were ranked playlists and Team Training/Social which were not. Correct?

Destiny doesn't have that.
Click to expand...

Nope, ranks were in every playlist in Halo, social playlists just hid the number from you.

There was one lone time they converted a social list to ranked and kept the hidden number; that was Team Snipers in Halo 2, so suddenly overnight some people that played a lot of Snipers were 40s.

The major difference on a technical level between Social and Ranked in Halo was that the rank range that you could be matched against was wider (but still not unconstrained)
 
J

jmvmadeira

Member
Reluctant-Hero said:
And this is why I'm consistently wrecked when I play on Kadey's train. No offense to my fellow train passengers or Kadey, but it sucks when you're out classed.
Click to expand...
Tell me all about it. GAF train, im lucky if i get 5 kills while being wrecked let right and center.
Randoms, as bad as it is, i can go positive
 
T

Trakan

Member
FyreWulff said:
Nope, ranks were in every playlist in Halo, social playlists just hid the number from you.

There was one lone time they converted a social list to ranked and kept the hidden number; that was Team Snipers in Halo 2, so suddenly overnight some people that played a lot of Snipers were 40s.

The major difference on a technical level between Social and Ranked in Halo was that the rank range that you could be matched against was wider (but still not unconstrained)
Click to expand...

I feel like this is impossible unless the skill range was literally zero to max. (In Halo 2 anyways, I thought 3 sucked.)

I remember the people I matchmade with, and it was sometimes people who had to have been playing their first match of Halo online.
 
C

CrudeDiatribe

Member
Frenden said:
RIP, SBMM matches based ONLY on the highest person the fire team.
Click to expand...

What are they going to do?

There are competing goals for matchmaking:
- Playing with people seemingly with telegraph-era internet is garbage.
- Playing on either side of a blowout is not fun, and on the losing side it can be a "I'm going to quit" amount of not-fun.

You need some amount of SBMM to ensure the latter. For a freelancer playlist, you could do most of the team-balancing after you've done CBMM— assign teams based on some fairness algorithm.

As you add progressively larger fire teams it becomes much harder to do this— and with a six-man team you have to do it all at the matchmaking step to have any hope of avoiding a blowout. From the tweet, Bungie doesn't even try— they rely on you to fill your six-man team with people of similar ability.

Reluctant-Hero said:
And this is why I'm consistently wrecked when I play on Kadey's train. No offense to my fellow train passengers or Kadey, but it sucks when you're out classed.
Click to expand...

Yeah, have seen this with my friends and when playing with people from GAF— my friends go from top to bottom when they play with me and I go from top to bottom when I play with GAF.

(& by 'top' I mean that being the best in the match is a possibility)
 
F

FyreWulff

Member
Trakan said:
I feel like this is impossible unless the skill range was literally zero to max. (In Halo 2 anyways, I thought 3 sucked.)

I remember the people I matchmade with, and it was sometimes people who had to have been playing their first match of Halo online.
Click to expand...

Until the skill system knows where you are, new accounts can end up like that. It's just a matter how how much data the system has on you.. so for the first few games, it just sort of guesses.

I wish I could get a direct from Bungie source for you, but it'd be in old Optimatch posts and the new Bungie forum system is a chore to dig posts out of.

But this is why, for example, a lot of games won't assign you a division until you've fed the skill system enough information to place you. Reach waited 30 games to do so.
 
T

Trakan

Member
FyreWulff said:
Until the skill system knows where you are, new accounts can end up like that. It's just a matter how how much data the system has on you.. so for the first few games, it just sort of guesses.

I wish I could get a direct from Bungie source for you, but it'd be in old Optimatch posts and the new Bungie forum system is a chore to dig posts out of.

But this is why, for example, a lot of games won't assign you a division until you've fed the skill system enough information to place you. Reach waited 30 games to do so.
Click to expand...

So what was the deal with Reach's matchmaking search options? (Skill/Connection/Fun)
 
T

Trakan

Member
FyreWulff said:
Those would adjust the weights on top of where the individual playlist search weights already were, at the cost of increasing your search times.
Click to expand...

Seems like an awful lot of time and work to make this "system" when they could just make it purely connection based like COD.
 
K

Kadey

Mrs. Harvey
I'm flattered. I'm only as good as my team lets me be. I play accordingly to how the team plays. If I see my team mates being successful handling a spot I will go to another spot and handle it myself, etc.

The purpose of trains is to get better. There is always room for improvement and that includes everyone. Just like playing with the general and other people here made me better, I am trying to do the same for others. You don't need a quick trigger finger, super fast reactions, etc, since this is not a competitive game, at least not yet, but you just need to play smart. Know when to push, when to use what, where to shoot and be at a safe spot. Team shooting is a huge plus. But remember this is 6 on 6 so although you plan your game on one or two opponents, there's four others you have to be lucky hoping your team mates are dealing with.

Obviously I'll be around for a train.

Does Shaxx bounties go to another week even if you don't complete all five? Like I did four last week. Or does it reset?
 
aarcane

aarcane

Member
Kadey said:
Does Shaxx bounties go to another week even if you don't complete all five? Like I did four last week. Or does it reset?
Click to expand...

Your bounties will carry over to the next week. I was at 4/5 before reset, it stayed that way afterwards. Then I finished it and got a Revelator with crappy perks. Oh well...
 
B

blue_phazon

Member
I really don't see why Destiny isnt purely connection-based. The PVP for the most part is for fun and not really competitive or anything.

Trials can be purely connection-based, while maintaining the whole "matching people with similar progress on their card" thing, and it should find people somewhat similar to you in skill.
 
J

jmvmadeira

Member
Kadey said:
I'm flattered. I'm only as good as my team lets me be. I play accordingly to how the team plays. If I see my team mates being successful handling a spot I will go to another spot and handle it myself, etc.

The purpose of trains is to get better. There is always room for improvement and that includes everyone. Just like playing with the general and other people here made me better, I am trying to do the same for others. You don't need a quick trigger finger, super fast reactions, etc, since this is not a competitive game, at least not yet, but you just need to play smart. Know when to push, when to use what, where to shoot and be at a safe spot. Team shooting is a huge plus. But remember this is 6 on 6 so although you plan your game on one or two opponents, there's four others you have to be lucky hoping your team mates are dealing with.

Obviously I'll be around for a train.

Does Shaxx bounties go to another week even if you don't complete all five? Like I did four last week. Or does it reset?
Click to expand...


No worries. Trains are fun, altough the last time we appeared to get lots of try hards. Its control, so its easyer to get the flow ot the game. IB + Clash = campfest. You can spot smoke comming out of the tents on some maps.

And yes, playing with better players does improve your game. Altough the combination of more skilled players + the usual IB lag does not end well.
 
T

Trakan

Member
blue_phazon said:
I really don't see why Destiny isnt purely connection-based. The PVP for the most part is for fun and not really competitive or anything.

Trials can be purely connection-based, while maintaining the whole "matching people with similar progress on their card" thing, and it should find people somewhat similar to you in skill.
Click to expand...

Bungie has already contradicted themselves on that regarding PVP. Before TTK released, Lars stated that people took Crucible too seriously and that it should be about fun. Then they go and patch skill based matchmaking into the game.

Trials can be one of the most important gametypes to have connection based matchmaking in, as losing out on going to the lighthouse due to lag is perhaps one of the most infuriating aspects of the game. That being said if all the other playlists had connection based matchmaking, I'd just stop playing Trials and live with it.
 
S

shermas

Member
What's the best way to do the Golg challenge? Been banging my head against the wall with a group for the last hour... Help us, GAF!
 
W

WeTeHa

Member
shermas said:
What's the best way to do the Golg challenge? Been banging my head against the wall with a group for the last hour... Help us, GAF!
Click to expand...

1,3,5 go left
2,4,6 go right
titan drops down and puts up bubble, all except 1 or 2 + gaze holder get in
guy stands on left box and drops jizz bubble with the others that are still outside and takes gaze
do damage
#2 gets out at 10 seconds and grabs gaze on right side
#3 grabs gaze immediately on left
#4 on right etc.
#6 shoots bubbles until it's over
repeat 2-3 times
 
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