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Destiny |OT42| Embrace the Not-Knowing

But, this isn't WoW, though. You can't really compare the two: what works on there won't always work on Destiny. You're also comparing a game with years of installments to a firm with only one installment so far, so I'd say to give it time.

I agree with no matchmaking, I just don't see how there would be more pros then cons. You'll have to deal with undergear'd randoms (just being the light level isn't always enough), people going in with no mics which you should know wouldn't work for certain mechanics in KF & WotM, the AFK'ers, etc...


They could implement an LFG system with apparently is in the Xbox Preview, but I mean you might as well use DestinyLFG.

In the end, there's no real one-shoe-fits-all solutions, but I believe in something that best holds integrity to this raid and to me it's at least knowing you can speak to everyone in the party, and not have to worry (at least, not too much more) about people going into raids with a different motive than others.

Real talk

GAFfers wouldn't have to do matchmaking because usually what happens is you come on here. People will still use Reddit or whatever team building site to find a group. Matchmaking is there for everyone else. "But people will criticize the raid for being too hard and Bungie will nerf it!" Bungie won't do shit. They already don't nerf separately for PvE and PvP, they'd probably keep the same BS excuse of 'We want to keep the raid consistent across matchmaking and grouped raiding'.

I mean, alot of the people disagreeing with matchmaking, already have their groups they raid with, and matchmaking wouldn't affect them. At all. Not even a modicum. Let people who matchmake deal with matchmaking with other players who may or may not know the raid. It won't affect you at all, because you'll probably still PUG a group on here or Reddit.
 
Anyone raiding on PS4 in the next hour or two?
Me and a friend want to give it a go. I've done the first two parts and he's never done it before. We're both 370 each.
 

Ryck

Member
Any raid badasses wanna jump in and help us knock out the final phase boss? We are super close we just need someone over 365 who knows what they are doing.


PSN: Ryck007
 
Got a spot open for a fresh raid on PS4 if anyone wants in? 365+ and know the mechanics please.

I'm 364, completed the raid up until the final boss. Let me know if you are willing to budge on that light requirement. Stupid artifact.


EDIT: LOL just turned in a legendary helmet engram. I got an artifact. I'm 365. can I join? PSN: Darryl_M_R
 
Real talk

GAFfers wouldn't have to do matchmaking because usually what happens is you come on here. People will still use Reddit or whatever team building site to find a group. Matchmaking is there for everyone else. "But people will criticize the raid for being too hard and Bungie will nerf it!" Bungie won't do shit. They already don't nerf separately for PvE and PvP, they'd probably keep the same BS excuse of 'We want to keep the raid consistent across matchmaking and grouped raiding'.

I mean, alot of the people disagreeing with matchmaking, already have their groups they raid with, and matchmaking wouldn't affect them. At all. Not even a modicum. Let people who matchmake deal with matchmaking with other players who may or may not know the raid. It won't affect you at all, because you'll probably still PUG a group on here or Reddit.

My issue with including matchmaking doesn't have anything to do with the difficult of the raid in itself, but the difficulty of the experience, because people don't know what they're getting themselves into (not with the raid, with people they have no idea of what they have to offer). You have to understand, you can't just go into the raid with anything, and even in my time in LFG, there have been people who tried to raid with unleveled blue gear. Why would you drag your raid experience through the mud like that when you can find a much more cohesive group?

See what I mean? It's not the raid, you hear issues with people in the Strike playlist, thats going to be in an even bigger magnitude. Also, what about the issues I stated above that would arise when MM in raids that already happens in strikes (no mic, AFK, etc...)?

I don't have a group to raid with. Hell, I don't even remember the last time I got an invite from anyone on my "friends" list. 90% of my raids (or anything that I needed more players for) have been from DLFG.net (unfortunately, but i got by just fine for the most part). So, I don't think my opinion disagreeing with yours (but I'm not dismissing) is biased based off of that, but my point had more to do with dealing with random people that you don't know have to offer before raiding with.
 
My issue with including matchmaking doesn't have anything to do with the difficult of the raid in itself, but the difficulty of the experience, because people don't know what they're getting themselves into (not with the raid, with people they have no idea of what they have to offer). You have to understand, you can't just go into the raid with anything, and even in my time in LFG, there have been people who tried to raid with unleveled blue gear. Why would you drag your raid experience through the mud like that when you can find a much more cohesive group?

See what I mean? It's not the raid, you hear issues with people in the Strike playlist, thats going to be in an even bigger magnitude. Also, what about the issues I stated above that would arise when MM in raids that already happens in strikes (no mic, AFK, etc...)?

I don't have a group to raid with. Hell, I don't even remember the last time I got an invite from anyone on my "friends" list. 90% of my raids have been from DLFG.net (unfortunately, but i got by just fine for the most part). So, I don't think my opinion is biased based off of that, but my point had more to do with dealing with random people that you don't know have to offer before raiding with.

They can put limitations on it, like they currently do with light levels.

X light level needed, X completions of said raid, whatever.

Probably even a 'Complete this raid beforehand through PUGging'. Again, you don't have to deal with these things. This would be an optional thing. Nobody is going to put a gun against your head and say 'YOU HAVE TO MATCHMAKE'. People who want to matchmake, can matchmake. That's all.

Just let them use whatever bathroom they want, to make an analogy. It doesn't affect you at all. Like...it's not going to affect the majority of GAFfers or Redditors. It's not going to affect the people who already PUG for raids on 3rd party sites. Bungie putting a notice of 'Hey you're about to matchmake for a multi-hour raid, and as such we cannot guarantee the quality of the people you're matchmade with' isn't that hard.

Heck, go full WoW, have it some time after the normal raid comes out.
 
Like I said I'm open to the idea. But Destiny isn't WoW, though I'm not that familiar with WoW raids.

Two problems I foresee - 1. that does change the dynamic of Destiny and "The Raid". 2. I have no faith Bungie is going to be able to develop 4 interesting levels of raids (and accompany loot/level progression). Nothing has given me the indication that they can so far.

Either way, your statement kind of proves mine. They could do that, and they'd be changing at least some element of how they design the raids. Whether that's good or bad or they're capable, we'll see. I'm skeptical, but I could be wrong.



We picked up Ryck, but I had to leave 45 minutes or so after. We were
on second phase of final boss.

Wish I could have stuck around, that was a solid crew.

Wife enrage is legit.
 

Kadey

Mrs. Harvey
People who have stuck with the game are too good. Bungie can't make things much harder because it will compromise the already complaining casuals.
 
People who have stuck with the game are too good. Bungie can't make things much harder because it will compromise the already complaining casuals.

PoE seems to be a more casual friendly end-game activity.

Maybe if the game launched with both 1 raid and 1 arena, then more people will enjoy the end game?
 
People who have stuck with the game are too good. Bungie can't make things much harder because it will compromise the already complaining casuals.

They need to make the harder content more gear dependent

There needs to be bosses that you straight up can't out DPS without being a certain light level

We call these...gear checks..
 
They can put limitations on it, like they currently do with light levels.

X light level needed, X completions of said raid, whatever.

Probably even a 'Complete this raid beforehand through PUGging'. Again, you don't have to deal with these things. This would be an optional thing. Nobody is going to put a gun against your head and say 'YOU HAVE TO MATCHMAKE'. People who want to matchmake, can matchmake. That's all.

Just let them use whatever bathroom they want, to make an analogy. It doesn't affect you at all. Like...it's not going to affect the majority of GAFfers or Redditors. It's not going to affect the people who already PUG for raids on 3rd party sites. Bungie putting a notice of 'Hey you're about to matchmake for a multi-hour raid, and as such we cannot guarantee the quality of the people you're matchmade with' isn't that hard.

Heck, go full WoW, have it some time after the normal raid comes out.

I see your point, I honestly do. But like I said, it is going to have an effect. The raid is going to be tarnished if people are having the same glaring issues in strikes that come onto the raids.

You see people on here, and on reddit, who are constantly complain about AFKers. Here's one from 5 days ago, 2 day after the DLC dropped. So, yes, that is going to have an effect whether you want to believe it or not. It happens in strikes, how could you say its not going to happen in raids with the same MM applied.

Now, adding requirements is something I wouldn't mind. Although, you're still going to have people mad that Bungie would be patching in DestinyLFG, like you said some of us wouldn't dare touch a random MM choice. Hell, in in-game LFG system I can get behind, but I will admit for me that is biased since it's all I've ever used.

After a set amount of time (say, 6 months), I probably wouldn't see MM as much of an issue.

In the end, all I'm saying is adding MM will have a negative effect. And that can be backed up by just looking at the problems MM in strikes have (say that were talking without restrictions). With what you're saying: I agree with something more along the lines of LFG, but less along the lines to blind MM.
 
Ugh the more I play, the more I feel this is a massive step back compared to post April update TTK in terms of player progression.


Idk I don't think it is. This update requires 50 Light levels compared to 15 of the April update.


I know people are having trouble getting their light up but once you get to 360, you can raid and beat the first 3 parts atleast. Run it 3 times with your characters and you will get enough loot to raise your LL easily.

Before 365 there are many ways to get to that. Far more then there has been before. Sure it's a slow drip at times but you will hit it. I personally farmed omnigul for an hour or so with my highest LL character and had enough blue drops to get all three of my characters to atleast 360.

Also people looking for higher level artifacts, level up Eris Mourn at CoO l. Got a 365 artifact pretty fast.
 

Kadey

Mrs. Harvey
Nightfall drops higher than 385 confirmed.

6KkigRQ.png
 

Carbonox

Member
Up to 371 on my Hunter and I haven't even gone beyond the first boss of the Raid yet. RNGesus was good to me today delivering a 370+ Ghost (Dead Orbit package) and Artifact (Strike Skeleton Key).
 

Zocano

Member
They need to make the harder content more gear dependent

There needs to be bosses that you straight up can't out DPS without being a certain light level

We call these...gear checks..

I am consistently annoyed that enemies are just too *easy* at same LL. Like the enemies actually feel appropriately threatening if you're underleveled, otherwise everything is a pushover.

I really wish/hope that hard mode for the raids is impossible to be "on level". I really liked that about Vault of Glass hard and such. People can call it "artificial" but it's really not.
 

Deku Tree

Member
Nightfall drops higher than 385 confirmed.

6KkigRQ.png

Why bother coding things so that there is a restriction on drops that needs to be removed, when only the "1% of the 1% in terms of power progression" will make it to that point before they were going to raise the cap?
 

Hawkian

The Cryptarch's Bane
In the end, there's no real one-shoe-fits-all solutions
There is. An in-game LFG tool.
I mean, alot of the people disagreeing with matchmaking, already have their groups they raid with, and matchmaking wouldn't affect them. At all. Not even a modicum. Let people who matchmake deal with matchmaking with other players who may or may not know the raid. It won't affect you at all, because you'll probably still PUG a group on here or Reddit.
I'm so inordinately sick of this concept; "it won't affect you so why would you care?"

Raid matchmaking would never impact me personally. I oppose it specifically as something that will only impact people who are not me.

In particular, people who may very well have their first experience with one of Destiny's raids in a blind matchmade scenario. What you want when you put together a raid in this particular game, both in terms of designing the raid from a dev perspective and putting a group together from a player perspective, is a compromise between enabling players to progress and finish successfully, and enjoy themselves/minimize stress. Every group that is formed for a raid in Destiny lies somewhere along this spectrum. Too little eustress and the group will never get anywhere; too much and the group will not have any fun no matter how "well" they do in terms of completing the content.

I have spent many hours at this point with players who are experiencing an individual Destiny raid for the first time, a Destiny raid of any kind for the first time, a raid in any game for the first time. I can tell you right now that a not-uncommon scenario for these players in a blind matchmade scenario would be:

-Load into the raid with no designated leader
-Throw themselves against the initial encounter without any coordination and little to no communication
-Fail to progress and say "fuck it" and leave after the onset novelty has worn off
-Come to the conclusion that "this is what Destiny raids are like" and swear off of them completely.

This may not make my experience playing Destiny any different. But it would make Destiny a worse game. I don't want anyone to have that kind of experience and I want the game to do everything it possibly can to avoid it, not make it more likely. It's about what is best for the game at all.

If you want to argue that raid matchmaking is in fact good for the game, then so be it. But knock off this fallacious "it's never going to affect you, just let people do what they want" crap. For better or worse, I do care about the experience of players besides myself and that's WHY I don't want to see such a problematic idea become a reality.

The entire concept of a newbie raid for me is to try and provide a controlled environment where players who might have this experience if grouped randomly with one another (and only one another) can see what actually makes this content great, and enjoy themselves. These work because expectations are set in advance and the group has a clear leader; everyone who signs up knows what they are in for to at least a basic extent. This small measure of expectation makes all the difference in the world for content at this level.

However, groups without communities like our own should indeed have an in-game method by which to put together a group and attempt the raid with some hope for both fun and success. Rather than matchmaking, the solution to this problem is to implement an in-game fireteam finder/LFG tool.

Such a tool would enable one person (the fireteam leader) to create a group and set expectations for those who joined. This small differentiating factor would go an enormous length toward creating high-quality groups with absolutely no downside.

They can put limitations on it, like they currently do with light levels.

X light level needed, X completions of said raid, whatever.
They could do that, implementing complex filtering and thus completely boxing out a massive portion of the players who would ostensibly benefit from matchmaking being added (those who have never raided before), or they could just add an in-game LFG tool.
Probably even a 'Complete this raid beforehand through PUGging'. Again, you don't have to deal with these things. This would be an optional thing. Nobody is going to put a gun against your head and say 'YOU HAVE TO MATCHMAKE'. People who want to matchmake, can matchmake. That's all.

Just let them use whatever bathroom they want, to make an analogy. It doesn't affect you at all. Like...it's not going to affect the majority of GAFfers or Redditors.
That analogy sort of offends me but I'm basically done here anyway.

An in-game LFG tool has all of the upsides of raid matchmaking and none of the drawbacks. It allows players to form groups for a raid they want to attempt without needing to leave the game. It designates a clear leader for the group and enables that individual to set expecations, whether it be a low-risk low-stress raid accepting all comers, or a pro-grade speed clear needing max Light. It ensures that nightmare scenarios under blind matchmaking are nearly impossible, without needing to add complex lockout restrictions or requirements to be able to take advantage of the system.

And oh yeah, such a tool could also be used for Nightfalls, Crucible fireteams, special quest strikes, and so on and so on forever, all again without any of the downsides of adding raid matchmaking to the game.

I don't understand what I'm missing and why this is still at all controversial.
 
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