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[Bizazedo]

Go into pvp and tell me again it was just on sale for 1 weekend. Its the default legendary for a LOT of people.

I PvP a lot.

When I die, it's usually NOT to a Suros, even in Iron Banner. Yes, they're in PvP, but they're not the most common. Shadow Price and other weapons are more common.

And the reason is / was due to Invective / other exotic weapons. If you had an excellent dropped Shadow Price or Vanquisher VIII, you'd use those and use the exotic option elsewhere.

Seriously. Sure nerf the vex but do it the right way. Dont make it worthless when the amount of truly endgame gear is already paper thin.

I like xur but some stuff should stay off his books. Give mea reason to actually play the damn game bungie. Seriously.

This, I agree with, but it's an entirely different argument. It's more about Xur offering too much.

He should only have had mid tier, at best, gear.

 

[figadapaura]

So the Mythoclast's base damage was actually nerfed by 44%, not 34%.

wat

 

[TheCanisDirus]

Well according to Bungie, PvE players aren't even human and they should be lucky that we are even allowed to bask in the glory of their amazing game. So I don't get the feeling at all they are going to do anything for the PvE community, maybe their own internal numbers show that >90% of Destiny players do the PvP and PvE players really are a tiny minority. I might have been playing the wrong game this whole time and never even knew it.

I just dont get it. I'd be willing to bet that there are more players running only or a majority of PvE.

 

[gatti-man]

At no point have I said Vex should have been nerfed. Just stop pretending how pedestrian shit is because you are so leet and strange coins rain like candy. The Suros is not nearly as omni present as people believe. If you are lvl 29-30 you are probably getting matched with other poop sockers who have the Suros, yes, but I can tell you at lvl 27, I am very rarely killed by (or hear) a Suros Regime in cruicble. A run of the mill AR or shotgun, all the time, as even basic ARs and shotties were imbalanced. I love this argument that coming up with 23 strange coins is some AFK freebie task, but getting lucky on RNG in a raid that has multiple exploits is the pinnacle of skill. You have to play the game regardless. Neither is solely dependant on skill.

I see your point but you then understand regardless of what you experience i and many others experience something else lol. Strange coins aremt easy to get but they accrue over time and are far easier to get than a hardmode win. You get 6 automatically for a weekly at lvl 26 and that is soloable very easily.

 

[TheTylerDurden]

Haha. Yes, prepare for the mass exodus from this game specifically because a busted ass weapon was nerfed into potentially being balanced. You done fucked up, Bungie!

This concept, this very term - balanced. What does this mean, exactly?

If balance when all weapons do similar damage? If so, why have multiple weapons?

Is balance a requirement for both PvP and PvE?

Seriously, isn't there room for weapons of epic abilities when these abilities only affect PvE? Are the fallen complaining about my Mytho?

The Mytho seemed to be a reward given for working the toughest content in the game, and you had to be lucky to gether. Suddenly with Bungie's raid broken, the weapon more readily available, we must 'balance'.

It's a crock. This was a knee jerk reaction to a Bungie problem that punished players. Yet the Atheon cheese remains.

Lazy. Not about balance at all, but about fixing a Bungie mistake revealed by exploitive players.

The PvP outrage at the Mytho was the perfect smokescreen for Bungie to do this. It hurt no one to keep the Mytho untouched in PvE.

 

[Admiral Woofington]

All I know is that if Bungie managed Gears of War they would have nerfed the shotgun to hell and called it a day. They don't like embracing what the community finds enjoyable; they push their own ideas of fun and stick to them until it's too late. So people like using ARs in Destiny - let them have their fun, but buff the other weapons. Make them desirable. Instead, they nerf ARs and make Scounts amazing. Chances are people will jump to scout. Obviously, I've invested too much time into this game for this dumb patch to bother me so much.

But they're buffing it to how AR's in other games are supposed to be. They've always been supposed to be spray and pray with limited hits from far away ranges. As to the vex nerf, admittedly it needed to be thought through, particularly for PvE.

But if the argument above is meant for an exotic weapon as well, then it doesn't apply entirely with the Gears of War example when everybody had access to shotgun.

 

[Bizazedo]

Yes, the endgame content is exactly what kept me playing and playing. Now I have nothing to show for it. It's cool to have the strongest gun in PVE.

That said, I am sure Bungie will revert these changes - they have to - but the question is when? Will the playerbase be diminished by then? This patch was a heavy insult to all of the core PVE players.

They won't rever them until they can separate PvP and PvE.

I.e., you might be waiting awhile.

 

[gutterboy44]

Unless the DLC adds a shit ton of new weapons, to curb the supposed "deluge of exotics," how about the mark cap is doubled if not more , and Xur allows you to trade in strange coins for a nice chunk of either Crucible or Vanguard marks. The only exotic sold each week should be the exotic engram for 23 motes of light. You have to still play a whole bunch to earn a shot at an random exotic that will likely not even be for your class.

 

[Kor of Memory]

I need some recommendations for good Primary Weapons. I've been using my SUROS so much that I've been neglecting all of my Secondary and Heavy Exotics.

The only Legendary Primary I have is Timur's Lash and Shadow Price. Shadow Price doesn't quite do it for me, I prefer something that shoots slower and hits harder. I'm open to Pulse, Scout, and Auto Rifles. Hand Cannon's don't really do it for me.

 

[patchday]

Funny how some folks have such an issue with Xur. Everyone complains how stank RNG is all the time. Well Xur counters that. I love Xur. RNG is just something that occasionally blesses me with a new item. I never expect anything from it.

When I did the normal raid the other night it was only because I wanted to see the content. Didnt expect not a single drop. Ended up getting the legendary gun and some shards. Which was nice

 

[Exhumed]

I've been pvping crucible since level 12. I can tell you I've seen a suros in every match. Every, single, match. I've come to hate the gun because it always out matched whatever I used. Still don't have a legendary primary weapon at 27 but at least now I have a chance against suros.

 

[TheCanisDirus]

I don't understand how it seems like everyone on here has the time to be pretty much playing this game all the time. I play 1-2 hours a day since launch. I have 13 coins, 1 character lvl 26 hunter. I completed the nightfall for the first time last night. I have never ran the raid. I think the percentage of people who have suros, ib, and mytho is pretty small.

Exactly. It's just the demographic that's actually discussing this subject on a forum like this. They see themselves as part of the general public when in fact they're a very small subset. Majority of players are probably just starting to figure out post 20 lvl'ing and dipping their toes into higher level strikes. Isn't the % of people who completed the raid still single digit or below? (someone must know)

 

[DesertFox]

I just dont get it. I'd be willing to bet that there are more players running only or a majority of PvE.

I only play pvp when the game forces me to for marks to buy my FWC gear. Which is right now.

It's ok, I enjoy having my corpse danced upon after being 1 shotted by *insert long list here*.

 

[Pilgor]

wat

Mythoclast damage with stability perk:

Before the nerf, 41 normal, 51 critical.

Post nerf, 23 normal, 35 critical.

Even including the 1.5 critical multiplier, the Suros still does more damage per shot.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...znvg9cxTV-aDs3dAD9AjJAMW6Xo/htmlview?sle=true

The data was originally just calculated by taking Bungie's word that there was a 34% decrease. Actual in game testing shows a 44% decrease.

 

[Exhumed]

Mythoclast damage with stability perk:

Before the nerf, 41 normal, 51 critical.

Post nerf, 23 normal, 35 critical.

Even including the 1.5 critical multiplier, the Suros still does more damage per shot.

Still crazy useful on any burn nightfall or weekly heroic though.

 

[Epsilon-delta]

Omg, I'm winning so many face to face duels with Suros users now, using Lord High. Especially at longer distances. It's orgasmic!

People in crucible still dont understand how powerful handcannons are. Thinking they can trade shots because they have an AR but they're proven wrong.

Bang-Bang-Bang dead.

 

[Magik]

Well it seems the hotfix did a bit more than what they had listed as I just played the weekly level 28 for the 2nd time today and the battle at the end with Septimus was A LOT harder. I've never seen so many Dreg Majors (yellow bar) that were chucking grenades like they were pebbles.

The battle lasted at least a good 10-15 mins longer then my first play through before the patch.

Scout Rifle is pretty damn good in PvE now.

 

[Bizazedo]

Mythoclast damage with stability perk:

Before the nerf, 41 normal, 51 critical.

Post nerf, 23 normal, 35 critical.

Even including the 1.5 critical multiplier, the Suros still does more damage per shot.

A guy in this thread said it did 38 damage critical hit to the head. From actually using it. Where did you see 35 / how far away were you from the target?

 

[GrandHarrier]

This concept, this very term - balanced. What does this mean, exactly?

If balance when all weapons do similar damage? If so, why have multiple weapons

It means that you have options. That your choices aren't funneled down to a handful or one. And this is a PVE and PVP game. They're going to need to balance for both. I doubt you're going to see them completely divorce weapon stats from PVE and PVP, such that they do radically different things in different modes. And the Mythoclast was straight up busted. It was beyond stupid how good it was in PVP. I imagine it's still going to be amazing, but players opposing it will actually have a chance, outside of getting the jump or blind luck.

 

[Pilgor]

A guy in this thread said it did 38 damage critical hit to the head. From actually using it. Where did you see 35 / how far away were you from the target?

35 with stability perk, 38 without. It doesn't matter, it's still a 44% nerf.

Still crazy useful on any burn nightfall or weekly heroic though.

So the rarest gun in the game, which is awarded from the hardest content in the game, is now weaker than many legendary weapons, and is only useful when the weekly burn is solar? Ok.

 

[Byron Bluth]

The fact they are balancing PvE and PvP as one is a disaster, why they thought that was a good idea who knows. I actually thought for the first few days after launch that Crucible gear and weapons etc. was exclusive for use in the Crucible only. It would make a lot more sense to have weapons/gear/etc exclusive to one mode or the other. Like the Mythoclast not usable in PvP and such.

Also, if you beat the Raid on Hard is there any reason to do it on Normal within the same week?

 

[Sande]

Are the tweaks the same for both PvE and PvP?

 

[CreateNowSleepLater]

Sunsingers are still stupid in PvP. Now with shotguns nerfed its even harder to kill the assholes when they use their super.

Also Thorn bounty is infuriating. Who the fuck that was a good idea?

Fun fact: I think tons of people use Fireborn(self revive) over Radiant Skin(actual damage reduction)

I am getting crushed in PvP as a Sunsinger. Even with Firebrand, the start up animation makes me a real easy kill, especially in control.

 

[E92 M3]

I've noticed a significant increase in the time to death in fights against AR users. It's helping make it less bullshit, re: they saw you first half a second later you're dead. It's a good change so far.

Well, I haven't tried it out - but excited to see the difference.

Well according to Bungie, PvE players aren't even human and we should feel lucky that we are even allowed to bask in the glory of their amazing game. It's clear from the game's "campaign" and "story" just how much they care about the PvE, it's a pretty dramatic turnaround from the Halo days. The PvE in this game is as perfunctory and just there to check the box as the PvE in Call of Duty and Battlefield. Games like this only have a tiny PvE component so they don't end up like Titanfall I guess. So I don't get the feeling at all they are going to do anything for the PvE community, maybe their own internal numbers show that >90% of Destiny players do the PvP and PvE players really are a tiny minority. I might have been playing the wrong game this whole time and never even knew it.

And funny enough, their best content is the raid. The raid is pretty much the only reason I stick around so much. That shit is fun to do! I think Bungie are too big for their own good. With over 500 people the studio has lost track of what needs to be done to foster a healthy community.

But they're buffing it to how AR's in other games are supposed to be. They've always been supposed to be spray and pray with limited hits from far away ranges. As to the vex nerf, admittedly it needed to be thought through, particularly for PvE.

But if the argument above is meant for an exotic weapon as well, then it doesn't apply entirely with the Gears of War example when everybody had access to shotgun.

My example was more supposed to demonstrate how in Gears the community dictated how the multiplayer was played and Epic embraced it, even if it was against their original vision. Bungie would require a lot of bending to not push their vision solely.

They won't rever them until they can separate PvP and PvE.

I.e., you might be waiting awhile.

I think they know it's suicide to the brand to keep the two modes intricately connected. They have to know. The e-outrage is real. Normally, I don't ever care about this stuff so passionately, but I feel this last patch has really told me to go fuck myself for wasting a Saturday on the hard raid.

Mythoclast damage with stability perk:

Before the nerf, 41 normal, 51 critical.

Post nerf, 23 normal, 35 critical.

Even including the 1.5 critical multiplier, the Suros still does more damage per shot.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...znvg9cxTV-aDs3dAD9AjJAMW6Xo/htmlview?sle=true

The data was originally just calculated by taking Bungie's word that there was a 34% decrease. Actual in game testing shows a 44% decrease.

"Hey guys, the community thinks the Mythoclast is OP." "Okay, just let the intern nerf it."

 

[diablos991]

Are the tweaks the same for both PvE and PvP?

Yup. Balancing like true MMO noobs.

 

[benjammin]

Funny how some folks have such an issue with Xur. Everyone complains how stank RNG is all the time. Well Xur counters that. I love Xur. RNG is just something that occasionally blesses me with a new item. I never expect anything from it.

When I did the normal raid the other night it was only because I wanted to see the content. Didnt expect not a single drop. Ended up getting the legendary gun and some shards. Which was nice

Not to mention it makes the drops more skill based as opposed to pure luck. People act like they deserve the random drops they're getting. As if somehow the guy who spends ten crucible matches afk deserves an ice breaker more than the guy who had to grind out 17 coins to buy it.

 

[GuitarAtomik]

Unless the DLC adds a shit ton of new weapons, to curb the supposed "deluge of exotics," how about the mark cap is doubled if not more , and Xur allows you to trade in strange coins for a nice chunk of either Crucible or Vanguard marks. The only exotic sold each week should be the exotic engram for 23 motes of light. You have to still play a whole bunch to earn a shot at an random exotic that will likely not even be for your class.

As someone who bought his Icebreaker from Xur, I wouldn't be against something like this. If he just sold exotic engrams for each slot (helmet/chest/special weapon/etc) I could see this adding a bit more "specialness" to the exotics as he would essentially be a slot machine with a slight bit of focus. I'd be fine if they left it the way it is now though.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Exactly. It's just the demographic that's actually discussing this subject on a forum like this. They see themselves as part of the general public when in fact they're a very small subset. Majority of players are probably just starting to figure out post 20 lvl'ing and dipping their toes into higher level strikes. Isn't the % of people who completed the raid still single digit or below? (someone must know)

PS4 Trophies list tells you what % of players have earned a certain trophy.

I'm on the PS App on my phone right now, and it says:
Raider (Complete a Raid.) - 6.7%
Epic Raider (Complete a Raid on hard difficulty.) - 1.1%

The Epic Raider percentage was sub-1% before the weekend, so a lot of people have cheesed Atheon Hard in the past few days.

Anyone who's played WoW or any other MMO with endgame raiding knows that the actual percentage of raiders in MMOs is comparatively small relative to the total player population as well. I don't actually know what the other players do at endgame, since most MMOs are solely focused on raiding as the primary PvE endgame activity unless you're a sandbox like EVE or ArcheAge, but they aren't raiding.

 

[Footos22]

My luck just never ends atm.
Did nightfall got heart of the praxis fire then did normal raid and got

Praedyths revenge
Vision of confluence
And the raid chest piece that has eluded me for a long time.
Can finally get to level 30. Only raid item I'm.missing is the helmet.

 

[robertsan21]

Mythoclast damage with stability perk:

Before the nerf, 41 normal, 51 critical.

Post nerf, 23 normal, 35 critical.

Even including the 1.5 critical multiplier, the Suros still does more damage per shot.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...znvg9cxTV-aDs3dAD9AjJAMW6Xo/htmlview?sle=true

The data was originally just calculated by taking Bungie's word that there was a 34% decrease. Actual in game testing shows a 44% decrease.

sad to see it

Souros doing more damage than Vex is a joke, you could buy the souros....

 

[diablos991]

PS4 Trophies list tells you what % of players have earned a certain trophy.

I'm on the PS App on my phone right now, and it says:
Raider (Complete a Raid.) - 6.7%
Epic Raider (Complete a Raid on hard difficulty.) - 1.1%

Anyone who's played WoW or any other MMO with endgame raiding knows that the actual percentage of raiders in MMOs is comparatively small relative to the total player population as well. I don't actually know what the other players do at endgame, since most MMOs are solely focused on raiding as the primary endgame activity unless you're a sandbox like EVE or ArcheAge, but they aren't raiding.

Wow, those numbers have increased a lot since I checked.

Epic raider was at 0.4% when I earned it (before the cheese)

 

[ethomaz]

Yeah I've lit up 4 dudes with Bladedancer last night. But I dont recall them being particularly clever. 3 of them were together and didnt even toss a grenade. So I just zipped from one victim to the other. The last guy, bless his heart, came around the corner and probably had no idea I was amped up and got diced too.

I have a Titan and Hunter tho so I know how to counter most stuff. Need to roll a warlock sometime and maybe I can figure out how to deal with Nova. But atm, Nova seems ridiculous too me.

Anyways, if any super ever gets nerfed it will be Blandedance I'd guess. But I mostly like the invisibility anyway. That's why I rolled a Hunter alt. Cause I hate radar. I like to surprise people

The only way I found to counter Nova it is the delay made before cast Nova... if you kill the player there the Nova is not casted.

Now if the Nova is casted you are died because there is no speed or jump that make you get out the range of the Nova.... unless the guy missed by a lot you.

 

[Arrogant Bastard]

Punching time

Worst PvP ever. That never works like that, people just bust the shield.

 

[IHaveIce]

game is down for me with the error code marionberry? Lol wut

 

[ZOONAMI]

Yup. Balancing like true MMO noobs.

It's not an MMO though, it's a cooperative and multiplayer FPS.

 

[TheCanisDirus]

PS4 Trophies list tells you what % of players have earned a certain trophy.

I'm on the PS App on my phone right now, and it says:
Raider (Complete a Raid.) - 6.7%
Epic Raider (Complete a Raid on hard difficulty.) - 1.1%

Anyone who's played WoW or any other MMO with endgame raiding knows that the actual percentage of raiders in MMOs is comparatively small relative to the total player population as well. I don't actually know what the other players do at endgame, since most MMOs are solely focused on raiding as the primary endgame activity unless you're a sandbox like EVE or ArcheAge, but they aren't raiding.

Wow. Yeah at end game now i just want to raid and run weekly/nightfalls. Nothing else even comes close to interesting me. Are people really replaying the same strikes over and over again in addition to the weekly and nightfalls? I even get tired of this once a week repeat.

Game needs more. A new raid a month would be adequate... but will never happen. 1 raid per DLC will mean huge gaps in my Destiny play time after hitting the max for each.

 

[gutterboy44]

As someone who bought his Icebreaker from Xur, I wouldn't be against something like this. If he just sold exotic engrams for each slot (helmet/chest/special weapon/etc) I could see this adding a bit more "specialness" to the exotics as he would essentially be a slot machine with a slight bit of focus. I'd be fine if they left it the way it is now though.

As a 95% PvE player, I love Xur at the moment. I would like to see all of the optional faction vendors get balanced with accepting both Vanguard and Crucible marks more than anything.

 

[Mindlog]

Still crazy useful on any burn nightfall or weekly heroic though.

Confluence has an enormous ammo advantage and it lets you slot an exotic elsewhere. Now I recognize we're comparing very rare raid weapons, but Mythoclast is supposedly much harder to obtain than Confluence. If you get a Mythoclast it's very likely you already had a Confluence.

If the Nightfall/Heroic has unflinching Phalanx Cabal the Mythoclast is completely boned compared to the Confluence.
Outside of that I would be hard pressed to find a spot where Mythoclast is better than Confluence/Solar Exotic Other.

 

[GuitarAtomik]

I am getting crushed in PvP as a Sunsinger. Even with Firebrand, the start up animation makes me a real easy kill, especially in control.

Just need to pick the right time to pop it. In general, you should only do it on the control point and wait just long enough for people to forget about you and get too close to run away. Then boom! At least one easy melee kill. Try not to activate it while they're facing you either.

As a 95% PvE player, I love Xur at the moment. I would like to see all of the optional faction vendors get balanced with accepting both Vanguard and Crucible marks more than anything.

Yeah, that should have been the way from the get go.

 

[Navy Bean]

This is wonderful news. I've also been using scout rifles in PVE since the get go. Can't wait to try it out tonight.

Yep, I have a fully leveled A.8675309 scout rifle that I stopped using weeks ago. Gonna give it another go tonight...

 

[Bizazedo]

sad to see it

Souros doing more damage than Vex is a joke, you could buy the souros....

I can't see from work, what's the ROF difference between the two?

 

[AmateurHour212]

Thats one of the best SR in the game, and yea the buff helped them a lot, made them more viable. Screw that scout rifle bs though, join the handcannon club.

I'm joining the HC club. But, uh, that means I have to start aiming, right?

Ska says I can't aim. Dammit. I must learn. I'm taking the blue HC to our NF encounter tonight.

I'm thinking 5:30pm CT for the NF? Work for you? Can't imagine this one will be too bad.

 

[blazeuk]

Atheon's Epilogue made easy work of this weeks nightfall, solo'd it quite easily. With that and the Ice Breaker, Nightfall has been fairly simple the last few weeks.

 

[Tekku]

People in crucible still dont understand how powerful handcannons are. Thinking they can trade shots because they have an AR but they're proven wrong.

Bang-Bang-Bang dead.

Yeah and people REALLY underestimate the range of handcannons. Some of them (like the Lord High Fixer) have really incredible range capabilities. They don't lose much power at all at distance and headshots are almost easier to pull off when the target is far away.

I really think they have the biggest payoff of any weapon in the game, because the damage is so high when you get control of your target acquisition and accuracy.

 

[Admiral Woofington]

I am getting crushed in PvP as a Sunsinger. Even with Firebrand, the start up animation makes me a real easy kill, especially in control.

If so then use Radiant Skin or w/e the one that gives you damage resistance is called. Then before you enter an area you know has enemies put it on.

 

[Izuna]

Did a full raid. 17 Ass Energies... 8 Ass Shards

THAT'S IT

 

[Pilgor]

I can't see from work, what's the ROF difference between the two?

The Mythoclast has a higher ROF, but it has a significantly lower ammo pool. Around 160 rounds. Further, Suros is more accurate with significantly higher range.

 

[golem]

Did a full raid. 17 Ass Energies... 8 Ass Shards

THAT'S IT

Welcome to my world lol

 

[Hoodbury]

Definitely this. I got the game at launch and only barely had enough strange coins to get the ice breaker. A whole lot of people seem to play 5-6 hours a day while leveling multiple alts and are surprised that they gather resources faster than those of us who only have time to play a few hours a week. As it is it's going to be weeks before I even level up enough to participate in the raid or nightfall.

Eh, Bungie keeps posting that the average play time is over 3 hours even on weekdays. I see more higher levels than lower levels when I go running around looking for resources or play PvP which is open to all levels.

 

[Sullichin]

Does the horrible material trade in for marks allow you to go over your weekly maximum? I'm going to be 5 vanguard marks short of buying a weapon after maxing out my marks this week. Infuriating!