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Destiny |OTForever29| The Season Finale

I think it was because there is a completely different perk for mag size that Field Scout totally invalidated. Field Scout and Increased Magazine also overlap different weapon pools.

Are you talking about Casket Mag? I mean all the vanilla perks like Perfect Balance are objectively better than later stuff. That was their whole design philosophy change to add trade-offs for everything. But they reduced the percent improvement for every other perk yet dropped FS value down to zero.

VoC was so great because it's the only scout with elemental damage, full auto and field scout. After vanilla, only Fang had FS and only non-elemental, re-rollable HoW scouts could have full auto.
 
Also: how are the first field tests on weapons in 2.0?

They weren't going to launch until today.

Are they available now that it's after the daily reset? Or not until 5-6 hours later like some stuff?

Edit:

New page: arms day isn't showing up at banshee! Waaaaaaaaa!

Lol well that answers that. Maybe 10 am Bungie time aka 7 hrs 45 min from now. That's when Trials stuff updated each week at least.
 

colinp

Banned
They weren't going to launch until today.

Are they available now that it's after the daily reset? Or not until 5-6 hours later like some stuff?

The screen says they're available but Banshee is holding them back. Maybe you're right theyl be up later.
 

Kyoufu

Member
They weren't going to launch until today.

Are they available now that it's after the daily reset? Or not until 5-6 hours later like some stuff?

It's supposed to be available at the daily reset on Wednesdays. Even got a popup message for it, but nothing is showing on Banshee's stock.
 

nOoblet16

Member
Well I got about 6 hours of play time today so i'll just share my thoughts.

I think Bungie ruined the game. For me anyway.

Every change they made sounds good on paper and the game was in desperate need of updates. There are some things that I really like and appreciate, like the Collections, UI enhancements and Quests... and then there are things I really dislike. Ergo, the new Crucible.

The PvP is one of those areas that needed some changes because the meta game was stale and had dug the game into a power creeping pit with seemingly no end in sight. Again, every change they made to Crucible sounds great on paper; however, what I've played of Crucible today was not great.

Nothing has really changed.

Well, that isn't accurate. It's more like, the only thing that changed is The Last Word. Sure, there are things that are slightly less effective than they were now, so the power creep has gone down. But all of those things were nerfed in tandem, and therefore do not require you to change your playstyle. You can still blink shotgun and thorn arcbolt and pulse rifle your way to victory. The Last Word on the other hand had its legs cut off and now this weapon can't kill one player point blank while hipfiring... which is supposed to be buffed.

I'm not going to insinuate that the game I played today is representative of the potential meta in 2.0. It would be daft to assume so because meta takes time to develop. What I will say however is that the game plays exactly as it did before, except we have on one hand where some OP weapons have been replaced by other OP weapons, and the other hand where an entire playstyle has been lost. By the time you kill anything with hip fire, you're being shotgunned or auto rifled. Blink is unchanged, Shotguns are still OP, and the only gun in the fucking game that can do anything about it is trash.

Bungie tried to offset the weaker sandbox by making ability energy recharge SUPER SLOW. Abilities take forever to regenerate currently and IMO it ruins the pacing of the game. This will most likely change when we reach level 40, but what wont change are the spawn times on special crates. Since they were first nerfed I had a problem with it because less special means more time using primaries. And now that my primary has been nerfed, I'm running around with an empty sniper rifle and a gun that takes 8 rounds to kill one player. Under no circumstance should a Titan be able to skate towards me and slide shotgun before The Last Word kills them. Get out of here with that.

What I played today was a mess of inconsistency, deceptive depth, and noise. Damage drop off scaling was poorly handled and it seems like mid ranged combat has disappeared completely. Bungie could have taken The Last Word out of the game before this patch and I would not have noticed much difference.

Rift sucks - at least on the bad maps. Of the matches I played, I think it only plays well on Black Shield, Bannerfall, and Vertigo, and that's because you don't need to turtle up in some tiny hallway to grab or capture the Spark. Half of the game is fighting over the damn thing because it's in a corridor where people are spamming their nades. As with the weapon meta, it'll be a while before players learn how to play Rift. My impressions thus far however paint it as hopelessly chaotic with little room for strategy beyond "spam supers and camp spawns". The latter especially is a problem because the maps only have 2 spawn zones. On Sector 618, I was literally spawning into the same Titan's shotgun death after death, and of course I can't fucking do anything because my anti-shotgun primary is nerfed and special hasn't spawned yet. All of the maps have predictable spawns and I foresee these being exploited more as time goes on. Destiny needs objective modes, but Bungie needs to design objective maps. Rift doesn't really work on the old maps and it hardly works on the new ones.

Maybe I didn't like it because 98% of the games I played ended early thanks to a rule that seems to be matching me into more lopsided games than ever before.

I wont comment on the maps much because I haven't played them all, but I've already shared my opinion on some of them here. There are good ones and there are garbage ones, so there's nothing new on that front. I just hope Bungie hasn't implemented a quitting penalty yet because the lows this time are really fucking low. I have no intention of playing Sector 618 ever again.

That's just the Crucible side. I didn't do much PvE, but what I've heard on that front doesn't have me optimistic (convulsed Light system, 45% shotgun nerf).

This isn't any kind of review. I'm just sharing my thoughts of what I played today, and it is overwhelmingly negative. I'd say it goes beyond being salty about one weapon being nerfed. Feels like there's no point in playing Gunslinger in PvP anymore. The Tower stuff is cool, the new gear is nice, Bannerfall is fun and I love the new music. Everything else makes me not want to turn my PS4 on tomorrow.
I'll agree with everything here but I will disagree with TLW not working even at point blank. It still works imo, I mean a two headshot kill via hipfire is not really possible now with the fact that you have to use soft ballistics now. With that said mid range combat is cobsiderably worse for Handcanons, a gun like Hawkmoon that depends on its power ends up having a drop off from 96 dmg to 88 dmg at a distance of 15-20m and you are like wtf?

It feels like it does slightly less damage and as such you always end up feeling short, then I tell myself the weapon was broken in the first place and this is just without that. It's no king anymore but I think it'll still be among the top.

And you are right in that nothing has "really" changed, any change you see now is most likely due to people experimenting stuff. Rift is fun but quite difficult to play on some maps. And we'll still see shotguns :/
 

ocean

Banned
Are you talking about Casket Mag? I mean all the vanilla perks like Perfect Balance are objectively better than later stuff. That was their whole design philosophy change to add trade-offs for everything. But they reduced the percent improvement for every other perk yet dropped FS value down to zero.

VoC was so great because it's the only scout with elemental damage, full auto and field scout. After vanilla, only Fang had FS and only non-elemental, re-rollable HoW scouts could have full auto.
Vanilla perks apparently got out of hand. Field Scout, Hammer Forged, Send It etc; the perks with no trade offs and massive gains.

I just kind of wish Raid weaponry was respected. Like at the very least swap Fiekd Scout for Extended Mag to soften the blow here.
 
When the game was dominated by Autos, Shotguns weren't super useful. Slide+Shotgun was the only way to get Shotgun kills, and anything beyond that required a Fusion Rifle.

I didn't see a single Fusion Rifle today.
 

Ambitious

Member
Why have I lost about 600 Cryptarch rep?

Why do my two Ghost shells (Standard + Frontier) only have 3 defense? Do I have to infuse them first?

Why doesn't the quest screen show faction reputation?
 

VE3TRO

Formerly Gizmowned
So umm what are supposed yo get upon booting up? All I've got is the Suros shader and emblem. I've not got any other green notifications to visit vendors or that.
 
I'll agree with everything here but I will disagree with TLW not working even at point blank. It still works imo, I mean a two headshot kill via hipfire is not really possible now with the fact that you have to use soft ballistics now. With that said mid range combat is cobsiderably worse for Handcanons, a gun like Hawkmoon that depends on its power ends up having a drop off at a distance of 15m and you are like wtf?

It feels like it does slightly less damage and as such you always end up feeling short, then I tell myself the weapon was broken in the first place and this is just without that. It's no king anymore but I think it'll still be among the top.

And you are right in that nothing has "really" changed, any change you see now is most likely due to people experimenting stuff. Rift is fun but quite difficult to play on some maps.

It wasn't broken with Soft Ballistics before. Aggressive Ballistics was broken because the hip fire perk as broken. That was fixed on top of a range nerf and stability nerf. Now Soft Ballistics is the only way to use the gun and it averages a 4sk-5sk.

It's done.

I used Thorn and it felt like complete garbage. I'm pretty confident people will move away from that gun pretty quickly.

The range sucks, the hip fire sucks and it doesn't 2 shot kill anymore. But it 3 shot kills every single time and is still the best Hand Cannon in the game.
 

Wallach

Member
Are you talking about Casket Mag? I mean all the vanilla perks like Perfect Balance are objectively better than later stuff. That was their whole design philosophy change to add trade-offs for everything. But they reduced the percent improvement for every other perk yet dropped FS value down to zero.

VoC was so great because it's the only scout with elemental damage, full auto and field scout. After vanilla, only Fang had FS and only non-elemental, re-rollable HoW scouts could have full auto.

No, it was a launch perk, Extended Mag. I'd actually put a few bucks down that Field Scout wasn't meant to affect mag size in the first place but they didn't know how to handle it after shipping.
 

Kyoufu

Member
When the game was dominated by Autos, Shotguns weren't super useful. Slide+Shotgun was the only way to get Shotgun kills, and anything beyond that required a Fusion Rifle.

I didn't see a single Fusion Rifle today.

I took my Fusions for a spin.

They're still woefully underpowered because you die before you can get a charge off. pre-emptive charging can work but it's just not worth it. I'd rather just use my primary weapon or a shotgun/sniper/anything else.

I'm just not feeling FRs right now. Maybe that'll change at 40 when there are new weapons to play around with in the new meta (if the meta has even changed).
 

HMD

Member
So umm what are supposed yo get upon booting up? All I've got is the Suros shader and emblem. I've not got any other green notifications to visit vendors or that.

If you have the CE, you can get the new dances and class items.
 

Gordon

Member
Vanilla perks apparently got out of hand. Field Scout, Hammer Forged, Send It etc; the perks with no trade offs and massive gains.

I just kind of wish Raid weaponry was respected. Like at the very least swap Fiekd Scout for Extended Mag to soften the blow here.
I liked it better when the other perk options were good enough that not having them on was the trade-off. As it is I find myself having a hard time choosing between range buffs and ready-time buffs on my shotguns.
 

Kyoufu

Member
Why have I lost about 600 Cryptarch rep?

Why do my two Ghost shells (Standard + Frontier) only have 3 defense? Do I have to infuse them first?

Why doesn't the quest screen show faction reputation?

Quest screen only shows the factions you can gain reputation with, so you must pledge allegiance with a faction for it to show. Silly change imo,
 

colinp

Banned
Bums me out my warlock arm band from the VERY FIRST Iron Banner event has a defense of like 20, ahahaha.

That's more rare than all of your damn arm bands and you give me a 20?
 

Gordon

Member
I took my Fusions for a spin.

They're still woefully underpowered because you die before you can get a charge off. pre-emptive charging can work but it's just not worth it. I'd rather just use my primary weapon or a shotgun/sniper/anything else.

I'm just not feeling FRs right now. Maybe that'll change at 40 when there are new weapons to play around with in the new meta (if the meta has even changed).
If they hadn't nerfed the charge rate buff they might be more of a contender.
 
It wasn't broken with Soft Ballistics before. Aggressive Ballistics was broken because the hip fire perk as broken. That was fixed on top of a range nerf and stability nerf. Now Soft Ballistics is the only way to use the gun and it averages a 4sk-5sk.

It's done.



The range sucks, the hip fire sucks and it doesn't 2 shot kill anymore. But it 3 shot kills every single time and is still the best Hand Cannon in the game.

With the crippled DoT, it's not that much different than a legendary hand cannon of that archetype.
 
It wasn't broken with Soft Ballistics before. Aggressive Ballistics was broken because the hip fire perk as broken. That was fixed on top of a range nerf and stability nerf. Now Soft Ballistics is the only way to use the gun and it averages a 4sk-5sk.

It's done.



The range sucks, the hip fire sucks and it doesn't 2 shot kill anymore. But it 3 shot kills every single time and is still the best Hand Cannon in the game.
Why do you have to use soft ballistics?
 
I might be in the minority here, but I really don't like the bounties that force you to be in a fireteam. I like that Destiny lets people play together, and higher level stuff like raids and such demand that anyways, but why force that on measly bounties?
Sometimes (or rather often) I like to just unwind with Destiny after work: put on a podcast and shoot stuff solo. Limiting bounties that I can do this way makes me sad. Even a quest line yesterday was kinda frustrating, since the final step was dependent on me and my strike team (of randoms) killing enemies with my Super's buff.
So all in all: I'd have preferred if low level activities had kept co-op optional, not make it mandatory.
 

VE3TRO

Formerly Gizmowned
So can we start earning Legendary marks today or not until TTK? Don't see the point in really playing much until TTK releases apart from PoE.


If you have the CE, you can get the new dances and class items.

Alright. I bought the standard and decided to wait on the seperate package for the other bits from CE.
 
With the crippled DoT, it's not that much different than a legendary hand cannon of that archetype.

If you find one with better range then yes. But Thorn has a high rate of fire so it edges out.

Why do you have to use soft ballistics?

Aggressive Ballistics got a range and stability nerf. The gun goes all over the place and doesn't affect the TTK unless they're right in your face. But TLW is not a "right in your face" weapon because that's what a Shotgun is for.
 
Played a bit finally. Everything feels very muted in PVE. That sense of power is diminished. The shotgun nerf in PVE is disappointing. Thorn is still a beast in the right hands. I'm not really sure what they nerfed. Necro seems ok. The stability on that AR is still a bit much. I need to try the Monte Carlo. Shax needs to be quiet.

Quests are already annoying. Why do I have to return to the tower for those but not bounties?

I did the subclass quests for my warlock. Seemed alright.

Overall, I am very happy with the quality of life changes. The tower, kiosks, quests, bounties, and vault space is all great. The weapons just feel ok now. Nothing has that "WOW!" factor. Hopefully new guns will fix that.

Can you not display you helmet in the menu screen now? Why?

Edit: Rift, Mercy rule, and fireteam bounties lol no
 

nOoblet16

Member
It wasn't broken with Soft Ballistics before. Aggressive Ballistics was broken because the hip fire perk as broken. That was fixed on top of a range nerf and stability nerf. Now Soft Ballistics is the only way to use the gun and it averages a 4sk-5sk.

It's done.



The range sucks, the hip fire sucks and it doesn't 2 shot kill anymore. But it 3 shot kills every single time and is still the best Hand Cannon in the game.

Man I donno what to say really, I guess we'll find out in the coming few weeks....but TTK now is higher throughout because of the range nerf for HC so I guess I'll still take 4sk with that fire rate, it will do alright in 1v1 battles atleast.

Do note that I don't play Gunslinger anymore and as such my usual playstyle has changed considerably. I almost always focus around engaging only one person at a time and blinking away to reload with the quick reload perk and the other thing I rely a lot on is constantly switching back and forth between sniper and primary due to the quickdraw perk and use them both to engage enemies at times for mid-long range combat. Two things that gunslingers can't do as well as bladedancers.

I guess what I am trying to say is that this new change might have affected you more than me (hence the difference of opinion) considering the difference in play and engagement style between gunslinger and bladedancer class. I'm gonna try Gunslinger now.
 

ocean

Banned
I used Thorn and it felt like complete garbage. I'm pretty confident people will move away from that gun pretty quickly.
High RoF Hand Cannon - Kills in 3 body shots
"new meta" lol

Thorn sniping is done. Mid range, as long as you ADS it's still, sadly, gonna be the most effective choice by the looks of it.

I wanna give it a while before giving a verdict though. We still don't have a true grasp on these map's angles, a "map flow" hasn't been created yet (like say you spawn A at Twilight Gap, you know where to go immediately and find people - we don't have that yet with new maps). We don't have the new weapons. We haven't tested the myriad archetype options and primary/secondary combos.

Maybe Thorn/Matador of old will be Universal Remote/Vestian Dynasty. Maybe it'll still be Thorn/Matador. It's a bit early to tell.

That said, I'm deeply disappointed that Thorn can kill in 3 shots to the body. No Hand Cannon should do that, much less a fast firing one. Also, they should have gone all the way with Shotguns. Like, the whole way. Matador and its kin are cancer. An Invective type play style where you need to be unreasonably close to get a kill, or combo with a melee? That's perfect shotgun balance. But as long as people can skate all over a map with the abundant special ammo one-shotting everything, a million changes won't be enough to make us feel like this is a new Crucible.

They changed be RoF on Messenger/Hopscotch. They should have eliminated the entire high impact bullshitty shotgun archetype, given them higher RoF, and given us a breather. Those slow shotties weren't useful in PvE and were the goddamn bane of PvP, and it looks like they'll continue to be. The archetype needs to be gone or the game will just be skirting around an issue it isn't truly fixing.
 
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