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[vocab]

Considering health regeneration I personally like medpacks, they add strategy to the game, but the first game had regeneration aug. It used some of your energy and it seems to be the same case with this game. The only difference is that you don't need to find this aug, it's with you from the beginning. And if they implement it in a right way with decent energy draining, then you'll have the same depth of strategy but with a slight different angle.

Yes, Health packs add so much to the game insead of shoot shoot, cover until screen isn't red anymore, and repeat.

I actually like the idea of upgrading to gain a regenerating health ability. People just like options, and that's why a lot of people like RPG's. However, having Regen health straight from the beginning just shows me where they draw their influences from, and those influences have been hampering fps games for the last 6-8 years.

 

[fizzelopeguss]

Which was dumbed down mechanically compared to KotOR, which was dumbed down mechanically compared to Baldur's Gate 2. We're headed in entirely the wrong direction with the side effects of these insane development budgets. "Streamlining" and focus testing to strip everything down into "feeling like such a badass" while pressing A to win, to capture the largest possible audience. I become more jaded by the hour.

The baldurs gate titles were dumbed down iply rpg's focusing more on combat and worthless bullshit like romances than any other rpg that came before. But BGII is your favourite game so that's alright.

 

[subversus]

However, having Regen health straight from the beginning just shows me where they draw their influences from, and those influences have been hampering fps games for the last 6-8 years.

First, it's not an FPS game (that means they don't need to just copy and paste health regen like Killzone-COD-any other fps do). Second, have you played BC2 online? It has regen but medpacks are of great help. That means that it is solely depends on a developer how to implement regen system.

 

[vocab]

First, it's not an FPS game (that means they don't need to just copy and paste health regen like Killzone-COD-any other fps do).

Uhh.. You're telling me there's a difference between Gears, Uncharted, Halo, CoD4's, Killzone 2, Medal of Honor, Mass Effect 2 regens system? You crack me up. Sure in FPS's your FOV is screwed up by a color scheme that screws your vision up, but most 3rd person games aren't that different. Instead of Shoot shoot cover till 100% health, it's shoot shoot, prone/run away from enemies/sit behind some box till 100% in FPS games.

Second, have you played BC2 online? It has regen but medpacks are of great help. That means that it is solely depends on a developer how to implement regen system.

Yes, but have you played BF2142, a game made by the same developer that basically does that same situation better without Regen health? Regen is there simply because other "popular" shooters do the same thing. If I'm not mistaken BC1 didn't have regen health, so why did they decide to do it this time around? Also, you do know medpacks speed up the regen process, therefore making regen health pretty unbalanced because other people without a medpack/medic nearby regen a lot slower.


The words Regenerating health, and competitive FPS's just don't go together. They came close with Cod4, but ruined the game with the other gimmicky bullshit like exploding cars, and set nades.

 

[mrpeabody]

The baldurs gate titles were dumbed down iply rpg's focusing more on combat and worthless bullshit like romances than any other rpg that came before. But BGII is your favourite game so that's alright.

Have you ever played a pre-Baldur's Gate RPG? Games like Wizardry or Might and Magic or Gold Box were 95% combat. They made BG look like a visual novel.

 

[EviLore]

The baldurs gate titles were dumbed down iply rpg's focusing more on combat and worthless bullshit like romances than any other rpg that came before. But BGII is your favourite game so that's alright.

Well there's a first.

 

[Kade]

The baldurs gate titles were dumbed down iply rpg's focusing more on combat and worthless bullshit like romances than any other rpg that came before. But BGII is your favourite game so that's alright.

:/ I dunno man...

 

[Hiltz]

I've only seen the game's trailer, but man was it awesome and felt like a movie trailer.
I don't remember being blown away by a game trailer probably since Killer7.

I pray my PC can handle the game's spec requirements.

 

[Wallach]

Hehe, don't take it too seriously - there's no good or bad guy here. You have your tastes, and noone is here to judge you. But i don't think you really understand what gameplay means - gameplay is the game played by a player, not something that is on disc. It's me playing the game. So what does exactly mean "gameplay and entertainment is paramount"? What can make the game better for you can clearly make it worse for me, and this is the case. Entertainment? I'm looking for experiences worth living, not simple superficial entertainment. For you a cool looking fun sequence is what matters? For me a wide complex array of deeper emotions is needed, and ever cheesy element kills it.
That's why i'm complaining, you don't have anything to do with it. My problem is called Square Enix, and the fact that 95% of the people support their choices so they will continue with their policy.
And so, it all starts with the characterization and the content: this DX is Marvel Comic Book material level at best, something that i would read for a second if found in a public toilet because it's just what sucks so much that is perfect to inspire a crap, when it once held the potential to be a modern landmark.

SO

I just mean that for the ones like you thinking that those takedowns are what add "stylish" and "interesting" and "bad ass" and "cool" to the DX context, you'll get your game.
Square Enix is working for you.
They take a bleak and desperate future with a deep potential and say "hey, let's make it bad ass, not desperate. Hostile, and you kick ass in it. Let's make the guy a superhero, not a beaten up human being like Rick Deckard in DADOES. You want your dystopia because it's cool, but you don't want to understand that a streetcop in that future would just be the most ignored gear in a fucked up system, the most desperate lowlife trying to make a living by dealing more violence without a way out of it.

Just to make an idea - This is the life Batou lives: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lir5kdx4neo

The killings, the terrible violence he is able to deal is something that he does because - 1st he is a mass murder weapons on legs and he realizes it - 2nd he is frustrated because he is the puppet of the system, a "robota", a product and a slave - 3rd he can't help himself but doing the work he's supposed to because it's his very same essence, his reason to be in that world, and a devil's pact as it pays for the augmentations. And when he kills 6 guys in a row, he finds himself pathetic, and souless, and can't even find the balls to tell Kusanagi he loves her.

Their reality is this - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtJFSLp_sgk

But no, hey let's make it cool, Matrix style. Look at this bullshit here and watch yourself how similar it is to DX3, can you see the similarities? Do you think it's a coincidence?

---> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IBNACePYk4&feature=related

Let's show that he's a bad ass through the game animations and a rebooted characterization, we don't want this future to be depressing, or metaphorically valid, or subtly ambiguous, or engrossing and varied.

For me that that stuff is pathetic. You jump three meters up the sky to underline youre badassery? Pathetic. You want to feel like a bad ass cybernetic cop? Pathetic. You're built as a superhero like character with a cheesy clichèd effort to make his past "haunted"? Pathetic. They they ripoff a bit of BladeRunner to make the world hostile, but strange, looks like you're untouched by that reality, looks like a mere superficial veil put there to be cool.

It's funny that here people always discuss for hours every single detail like some number of pixels and the most trivial design choice, but almost none seem untouched by the weak characterization and representation and that stuff, that is of equal importance.

And we're just talking about the characterization - we can start discussing the game mechanics too if you want.

Games are still mostly pathetic things because every time they have the opportunity to put deeper layers in characterization, narrative or game mechanics, and support the power of the medium, they just don't, and just fill the gaps with that kind of stuff. I have different tastes, not better, just different, but i wonder why they always make games that you would like :lol

I understand where you are coming from - I really do. You want experiences that are more emotional, and take themselves more "serious". There isn't anything wrong with that, really.

From where I stand, though, video games are a medium that will always be about the challenges placed before the player and the literal mechanics and means you are given to conquer those challenges. To me, they've always been a visual evolution of tabletop games, whether we're talking about RPGs like D&D, or stricter rule-based games like Risk. Those games continue to evolve, too - games like Race for the Galaxy, Arkham Horror, or Descent are just different ways of combining different mechanics and providing a different experience.

That same type of entertainment is what I draw out of video games. Where I think games hold a significant advantage is that you give the player an amazing representation of your actions, and a more intuitive ability to translate the results of those actions. I do not think that video games have any kind of inherent ability to better translate ideas like emotion or morality, because until you literally strip all of the "game" aspect out of your creation, you will always taint the player's perception of those specific ideas by the literal machinations you put in his way that she has to "defeat" to get there (Portal is a really good example of this).

I feel like if you could provide the type of game you are talking about - one that creates an interesting world that is completely loyal to itself, with a thought-provoking story without betraying the elements that separate it from another medium - I would probably love that game to pieces. But, there is no level of sophistication that would allow me to really praise it if those gameplay elements are not on the same level as everything else. The problem, from what I have seen in all of my years playing video games, is in making gameplay elements that are still satisfying and interesting while somehow staying within very particular bounds of what would be "realistic". In fact, I think the entire stealth mechanic highlight this perfectly - if they ever took a game like Deus Ex and made that element truly "real" even within the scope of that world, people would hate the shit out of it. It would be the most frustrating thing ever - you'd never get away with infiltrating some giant corporation complex full of sentry turrets, armed guards, laser alarms. You don't have the skills to conquer something like that - the gameplay mechanics have to intervene and help you by placing artificial limitations that are easier for you to break down and defeat.

Ultimately, I think the problem with this medium is that there is no perfect compromise between fulfilling your duty as a game designer to those core gameplay elements that define how the player is limited in interacting with the game, and your ability to create a real and compelling world where even the smallest facets remain true to the "reality" within the confines of your fake world. I definitely feel like any and all concessions that have to be made should always be made in the favor of the former and not the latter. That is the only strength this medium has over one like cinema. I would never appreciate the compromise of the quality of interactivity in a video game if it was made for the sake of the quality of the result of those interactions.

The reason I'm going on so much about this here in this particular thread is because Deus Ex is one of those games; they try very hard to provide the most they can in both gameplay interactivity and compelling, thought-provoking illusion. So, it is very disheartening to see people say "oh, how dumb, you can press a button and insta-kill guys, total sell-out" - without giving some kind of example of how they would better approach something like this. Should the player have no chance at ambushing four armed guards, for the fact that Denton would simply not take such an obvious risk? You do that and you have eliminated as aspect of interactivity within the game but gained nothing, when you could just leave the choice up to the player whether to avoid the situation entirely and achieve the same result. Should it be more interactive or require more literal gaming skill to be able to jump down and kill these guards, no matter how far the player has advanced their character? Maybe - it is always a balancing act when determining the appropriate difficulty of the game's scenes when trying to take into consideration all of your audience, and the perceived "value" of a character's development on the RPG side of things. Just bear in mind that, from a game design perspective, adding more steps to achieve the same result does not always make for more compelling gameplay. Look at how people have reacted to the proposed hacking mechanic in Human Revolution.

You could, I suppose, simply change the mood of the game and say it would be more fitting to, say, drop some kind of canister of gas or employ some other more "realistic" means of achieving the same end result to better suit your tastes. Just remember that you will always disappoint someone when you make artistic decisions like this. There's no intellectual high ground to take; the people that experience the game are the ones that define its worth, and what you give to some of them will be done at the expense of others. I'm not quite jaded enough yet that I will only respect what's done in my particular favor.

 

[Lostconfused]

Yes, Health packs add so much to the game insead of shoot shoot, cover until screen isn't red anymore, and repeat.

Health packs also existed in games where you could quick save and quick load.

Edit: But let me get back to you on this point. Since i just picked up FEAR on steam so I can refresh my memory as to how the FPS games of the olde days of yore played.

 

[Zoc]

So, it is very disheartening to see people say "oh, how dumb, you can press a button and insta-kill guys, total sell-out" - without giving some kind of example of how they would better approach something like this.

I think most of the (legitimate) objections to this are that it breaks immersion, and breaks the player's connection with the character. The augmentations in DE were all just tools - none of them did any work for you. Augmentations let you jump higher, run faster, face down a wall of bullets, or become invisible. None of them actually killed enemies for you. All of them affected the player's connection with the world, not with the character.

So, that's your answer. Invent new and flashy abilities for your character to give himself that don't break immersion.

 

[vocab]

Health packs also existed in games where you could quick save and quick load.

True, and I can tell you I saved with 3 health in Half Life many times :lol

 

[Wallach]

I think most of the (legitimate) objections to this are that it breaks immersion, and breaks the player's connection with the character. The augmentations in DE were all just tools - none of them did any work for you. Augmentations let you jump higher, run faster, face down a wall of bullets, or become invisible. None of them actually killed enemies for you. All of them affected the player's connection with the world, not with the character.

So, that's your answer. Invent new and flashy abilities for your character to give himself that don't break immersion.

I'm not really clear on how that action breaks immersion within the game world. Is it because you feel that you should have to perform all of you character's interactions with the world manually (or I guess as manually as it gets within a video game)? I don't know if everyone would feel the same way, honestly. They are doing the exact opposite type of direction with how hacking works in this game and there seems to be opposition to it, even in this thread.

 

[Zoc]

I'm not really clear on how that action breaks immersion within the game world. Is it because you feel that you should have to perform all of you character's interactions with the world manually (or I guess as manually as it gets within a video game)? I don't know if everyone would feel the same way, honestly. They are doing the exact opposite type of direction with how hacking works in this game and there seems to be opposition to it, even in this thread.

"Manually" is one way to put it, I suppose. Immersion is a big part of Deus Ex, and the game has always had critics that feel it didn't go far enough in that regard. There were quite a few complaints about the third-person camera during cutscenes in the original game. You can see how someone who felt that way about the original Deus Ex would feel about having the camera pull out during gameplay, have control taken away, and have all kinds of crazy shit happen on screen.

I see the logic behind the objection, but personally, I think it's misguided (I'm just playing devil's advocate here). Deus Ex is not Half-Life. It has a particular brand of immersion based on playing a character with a strong personality and voice. You're supposed to feel that your actions have consequences in Deus Ex's world, but not that you're playing "you." That makes pulling out to third-person and having scripted sequences perfectly acceptable. They are, in fact, very good dramatic tools for fleshing out the character.

 

[Wallach]

"Manually" is one way to put it, I suppose. Immersion is a big part of Deus Ex, and the game has always had critics that feel it didn't go far enough in that regard. There were quite a few complaints about the third-person camera during cutscenes in the original game. You can see how someone who felt that way about the original Deus Ex would feel about having the camera pull out during gameplay, have control taken away, and have all kinds of crazy shit happen on screen.

I see the logic behind the objection, but personally, I think it's misguided. Deus Ex is not Half-Life. It has a particular brand of immersion based on playing a character with a strong personality and voice. You're supposed to feel that your actions have consequences in Deus Ex's world, but not that you're playing "you." That makes pulling out to third-person and having scripted sequences perfectly acceptable. They are, in fact, very good dramatic tools for fleshing out the character.

Yeah, I have a lot of mixed feelings about "immersion" as far as it applies to Deus Ex. The game goes all over the place in terms of actions that pull me in to the atmosphere; on one hand I'm making meaningful choices that impact how the story plays out, and on the other I'm breaking crates to find power-ups or looking at a progress bar in a static menu waiting for my "hack" to finish.

For me, stuff like the stealth takedown described in the OP doesn't bother me. Especially not in an RPG-style game like this. It would depend more on whether or not that kind of stuff is really limited to how my character was developed; it loses the same impact if any type of character has the same ability. That's more what I'm concerned about.

 

[Zoc]

For me, stuff like the stealth takedown described in the OP doesn't bother me. Especially not in an RPG-style game like this. It would depend more on whether or not that kind of stuff is really limited to how my character was developed; it loses the same impact if any type of character has the same ability. That's more what I'm concerned about.

Exactly. Based on what we've heard from the developer so far, though, I think they understand that the player has to start off with a limited number of abilities, and be given the opportunity to develop them in any direction.

The only thing is that a modern audience apparently won't accept starting the game relatively weak and becoming a badass, so new game starts you off as a badass and then makes you into a super-badass with cinematic "takedowns" later. Whatever. Just get the story and setting right, and it'll all be OK.

On another note, I've been replaying DE since posting in this thread, and one thing struck me about it that I hadn't noticed before: the sidequests in this game are much better than the main story. The main story remains fairly linear, but there are some sidequests that are amazingly flexible (I'm thinking of the story about the hotel owner and his family). I wish it were possible to play a game like this that had only side-stories, no main story.

 

[Stike]

I was expecting NOTHING from this game, then downloaded the trailer.

OMG GOOSEBUMPS

The atmosphere, setting, AWESOME MUSIC, great story and presentation! Love it!
Cant wait for more now!

Also, I saw this composer is Michael McCann - but I cant find anything about this guy. Wish I knew more.

 

[Night_Trekker]

Also, I saw this composer is Michael McCann - but I cant find anything about this guy. Wish I knew more.

No Alexander Brandon?

I now have not a single reason to give DX3 a shot.

 

[Gorgon]

The baldurs gate titles were dumbed down iply rpg's focusing more on combat and worthless bullshit like romances than any other rpg that came before. But BGII is your favourite game so that's alright.

Fuck off, I want romance and interpersonal relashionships in my RPGs, because I like to roleplay, as opposed to roll-play.

 

[NinjaBoiX]

This trailer was incredible, so cinematic.

 

[FoeHammer]

The changes and new direction seem awesome to me.

I loved Deux Ex and I even liked the second one; I guess I'm just stoked that we're actually getting a third entry as I assumed the franchise was dead.

 

[Truant]

I kinda want to replay Deus Ex now. The graphics suck, though. What mods do I need?

Also, will the Steam version work with mods?

 

[dark10x]

Health packs also existed in games where you could quick save and quick load.

Edit: But let me get back to you on this point. Since i just picked up FEAR on steam so I can refresh my memory as to how the FPS games of the olde days of yore played.

It was terrible.

Quick saving and quick loading totally change the game. Checkpoints and regenerating health require the player to complete a full challenge before saving can occur.

With health packs and quicksaves, developers never know how well equipped a player will be and will not be able to properly balance every section. A room that is simple with 100% health could be grueling with 20% health. I know this encourages more skillful play in some ways, but in practice, it really didn't work all that well.

 

[Maxrunner]

Is there realtime footage?

 

[Stallion Free]

I kinda want to replay Deus Ex now. The graphics suck, though. What mods do I need?

Also, will the Steam version work with mods?

You need this and only this: http://kentie.net/article/d3d10drv/

None of the high-def texture mods completed and there are a couple compilation mods of graphical tweaks that look like utter shit. With that DX10 renderer you should enable everything except Parallax Occlusion as it looks ridiculous.

 

[Jenga]

Fuck off, I want romance and interpersonal relashionships in my RPGs, because I like to roleplay, as opposed to roll-play.

oh man, i can totally see JC having a romance with anna navarre if DX were made in this gen

or even gunther with the optional female denton!

 

[Stallion Free]

oh man, i can totally see JC having a romance with anna navarre if DX were made in this gen

or even gunther with the optional female denton!

The love sequences could incorporate all there Augmentations. Mmm so good.

 

[Gorgon]

oh man, i can totally see JC having a romance with anna navarre if DX were made in this gen

or even gunther with the optional female denton!

WOOOOOOOOHHHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

 

[Numpt3]

I was expecting NOTHING from this game, then downloaded the trailer.

OMG GOOSEBUMPS

The atmosphere, setting, AWESOME MUSIC, great story and presentation! Love it!
Cant wait for more now!

Having been away from home for a week or so I saw the E3 trailer for the first time earlier. I Know it doesn't show any gameplay at all but holy shit! Super hyped now.

 

[Lostconfused]

The love sequences could incorporate all there Augmentations. Mmm so good.

At the end he can whisper the kill code in her ear. Perfect!

 

[N30RYU]

gameplay

http://screwattack.com/videos/Behind-Closed-Doors-Deus-Ex-Human-Revolution-pt1

http://screwattack.com/videos/Behind-Closed-Doors-Deus-Ex-Human-Revolution-pt2

 

[Gribbix]

gameplay

http://screwattack.com/videos/Behind-Closed-Doors-Deus-Ex-Human-Revolution-pt1

http://screwattack.com/videos/Behind-Closed-Doors-Deus-Ex-Human-Revolution-pt2

I think the general art direction is fantastic. The detail in the city and bar is pretty great. (At least based on this shaky cam footage). That said, you should probably start a new thread since most people will probably miss it in here.