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[ColonelColon]

Hehe, don't take it too seriously - there's no good or bad guy here. You have your tastes, and noone is here to judge you. But i don't think you really understand what gameplay means - gameplay is the game played by a player, not something that is on disc. It's me playing the game. So what does exactly mean "gameplay and entertainment is paramount"? What can make the game better for you can clearly make it worse for me, and this is the case. Entertainment? I'm looking for experiences worth living, not simple superficial entertainment. For you a cool looking fun sequence is what matters? For me a wide complex array of deeper emotions is needed, and ever cheesy element kills it.
That's why i'm complaining, you don't have anything to do with it. My problem is called Square Enix, and the fact that 95% of the people support their choices so they will continue with their policy.
And so, it all starts with the characterization and the content: this DX is Marvel Comic Book material level at best, something that i would read for a second if found in a public toilet because it's just what sucks so much that is perfect to inspire a crap, when it once held the potential to be a modern landmark.

SO

I just mean that for the ones like you thinking that those takedowns are what add "stylish" and "interesting" and "bad ass" and "cool" to the DX context, you'll get your game.
Square Enix is working for you.
They take a bleak and desperate future with a deep potential and say "hey, let's make it bad ass, not desperate. Hostile, and you kick ass in it. Let's make the guy a superhero, not a beaten up human being like Rick Deckard in DADOES. You want your dystopia because it's cool, but you don't want to understand that a streetcop in that future would just be the most ignored gear in a fucked up system, the most desperate lowlife trying to make a living by dealing more violence without a way out of it.

Just to make an idea - This is the life Batou lives: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lir5kdx4neo

The killings, the terrible violence he is able to deal is something that he does because - 1st he is a mass murder weapons on legs and he realizes it - 2nd he is frustrated because he is the puppet of the system, a "robota", a product and a slave - 3rd he can't help himself but doing the work he's supposed to because it's his very same essence, his reason to be in that world, and a devil's pact as it pays for the augmentations. And when he kills 6 guys in a row, he finds himself pathetic, and souless, and can't even find the balls to tell Kusanagi he loves her.

Their reality is this - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtJFSLp_sgk

But no, hey let's make it cool, Matrix style. Look at this bullshit here and watch yourself how similar it is to DX3, can you see the similarities? Do you think it's a coincidence?

---> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IBNACePYk4&feature=related

Let's show that he's a bad ass through the game animations and a rebooted characterization, we don't want this future to be depressing, or metaphorically valid, or subtly ambiguous, or engrossing and varied.

For me that that stuff is pathetic. You jump three meters up the sky to underline youre badassery? Pathetic. You want to feel like a bad ass cybernetic cop? Pathetic. You're built as a superhero like character with a cheesy clichèd effort to make his past "haunted"? Pathetic. They they ripoff a bit of BladeRunner to make the world hostile, but strange, looks like you're untouched by that reality, looks like a mere superficial veil put there to be cool.

It's funny that here people always discuss for hours every single detail like some number of pixels and the most trivial design choice, but almost none seem untouched by the weak characterization and representation and that stuff, that is of equal importance.

And we're just talking about the characterization - we can start discussing the game mechanics too if you want.

Games are still mostly pathetic things because every time they have the opportunity to put deeper layers in characterization, narrative or game mechanics, and support the power of the medium, they just don't, and just fill the gaps with that kind of stuff. I have different tastes, not better, just different, but i wonder why they always make games that you would like :lol

I... wha... what in the hell are you talking about? You haven't played the game or even seen more than a few minutes of CGI that really has no bearing on the final product, and you're already making sweeping judgments about its characters and setting. Do you really believe it's pathetic that a character with cybernetic attachments uses those cybernetic attachments? Would you prefer that he have a riveting discourse about the meaning of life with the people who are, for some reason still unknown to us, his enemies? We hardly know anything about the story of this game, and you're already convinced that it's pathetic. Your predisposition to dismiss this game is far more pitiful imo, even if this game does turn out to be garbage.

 

[lorddarkflare]

Accept? Look dude, what, does Square Enix pay for your food or what?
Last time i checked, having a critical mind was a plus.

:lol

I am making the point that this game will in no way approach DE and it is being made with all the mainstreaming/streamlining/pampering/simplifications that console games get.

Basically, there is no 'ray of hope', we more or less know the paths that this game will take. We have known since regenerating health was stated to be in. Heck, we have known since the game was announced to be on consoles.

 

[Numpt3]

Bloody hell it's only a game guys....

 

[Timekiller]

The setting is pure porn

:lol spot-on!

 

[d58e7]

I have faith that this could turn out good, given that the dev time doesn't seem to be rushed.

Side Question: Anyone know if there are any fan mods for DE: IW that try to make it a better game?

 

[Timekiller]

:lol

I am making the point that this game will in no way approach DE and it is being made with all the mainstreaming/streamlining/pampering/simplifications that console games get.

Basically, there is no 'ray of hope', we more or less know the paths that this game will take. We have known since regenerating health was stated to be in. Heck, we have known since the game was announced to be on consoles.

hehe, yeah, but i still don't get where accepting comes into play. I don't want to accept that in this industry you don't have IP over your creations, so that they can be sold and manipulated for new-age trash lovers, or that a game on console has to suck. Mainstream materials sucks because people accept it. We are the consumers, we should hold those companies by the balls, not the other way around.

 

[Timekiller]

Bloody hell it's only a game guys....

And i thought alpinism was just walking to point B and back to A, and reading just turning paper sheets, and... :lol

 

[Numpt3]

Anyone know if there are any fan mods for DE: IW that try to make it a better game?

What is this Deus Ex: IW you speak of?

 

[hclflow]

I... wha... what in the hell are you talking about? You haven't played the game or even seen more than a few minutes of CGI that really has no bearing on the final product, and you're already making sweeping judgments about its characters and setting. Do you really believe it's pathetic that a character with cybernetic attachments uses those cybernetic attachments? Would you prefer that he have a riveting discourse about the meaning of life with the people who are, for some reason still unknown to us, his enemies? We hardly know anything about the story of this game, and you're already convinced that it's pathetic. Your predisposition to dismiss this game is far more pitiful imo, even if this game does turn out to be garbage.

FWIW, his suppositions are likely correct. I just choose to hold out a little hope that they chose to show all the flare and none of the substance, because they have to keep interested the simple-minded that heavily pollute the "gamer" constituency these days. Wanting to sell copies and all that.

 

[lorddarkflare]

hehe, yeah, but i still don't get where accepting comes into play. I don't want to accept that in this industry you don't have IP over your creations, so that they can be sold and manipulated for new-age trash lovers, or that a game on console has to suck. We are the consumers, we should hold those companies by the balls, not the other way around

We do hold them by the balls: we can chose not to buy their stuff.

The thing is, the overwhelming amount of consumers either do not mind or do not care.

The accepting comes with the realization that these consumers are the ones calling the shots and the developers like their money just as much as they like ours.

 

[Timekiller]

I... wha... what in the hell are you talking about? You haven't played the game or even seen more than a few minutes of CGI that really has no bearing on the final product, and you're already making sweeping judgments about its characters and setting. Do you really believe it's pathetic that a character with cybernetic attachments uses those cybernetic attachments? Would you prefer that he have a riveting discourse about the meaning of life with the people who are, for some reason still unknown to us, his enemies? We hardly know anything about the story of this game, and you're already convinced that it's pathetic. Your predisposition to dismiss this game is far more pitiful imo, even if this game does turn out to be garbage.

Pitiful, to me, is your level of discussion. First, i'm talking about characterization and setting, and it doesn't matter if it's 20 minutes or 1 minute - they presented their material and for now the premise shows 100% bullshit.
It's pathetic how you use attachments, not that you use them. The discourse? You still don't get it do you. IT can be left out - videogames are for experiencing that level of depth, not listening to people arguing about it.
And i'm not talking about the story at all, again we're talking about characterization and setting, not story.And also, maybe you mean plot, not story. Story is the one that we make through gameplay, plot is the one you're talkign about. Hey if you want to answer again, put some "monocle" jokes. :lol

 

[Numpt3]

And i thought alpinism was just walking to point B and back to A, and reading just turning paper sheets, and... :lol

:lol

I just don't understand why some folk are getting so agro over a game of which we've seen virtually nothing yet.

 

[Timekiller]

We do hold them by the balls: we can chose not to buy their stuff.

The thing is, the overwhelming amount of consumers either do not mind or do not care.

The accepting comes with the realization that these consumers are the ones calling the shots and the developers like their money just as much as they like ours.

well, yes! that's the problem with me in fact, the producer and the 95% of the consumers selecting and shaping this industry.

 

[Zoc]

snip

You never played the original DE with it's crappy main story, did you?

Anyway, you're right. Deus Ex 3 is probably going to have a crappy main story and superficial characters, just like DE1, DE2, and every other game for every platform made to date. The best thing to hope for from Deus Ex 3 is not the next War and Peace, but for a sequel that keeps the openness, flexibility, and atmosphere of the original, and fixes some of the most glaring problems without introducing too many new ones. It's still far too early to make that call.

 

[Fallout-NL]

well, yes! that's the problem with me in fact, the producer and the 95% of the consumers selecting and shaping this industry.

Best thing is not to worry about it and be grateful when something worthwhile does emerge once every decade.

 

[UrbanRats]

@TimeKiller: You're assuming a lot of stuff though.
Cheesy action sequences that only served the purpose of "fun", were present in all of the GitS iterations, it's not like they were ultra sober take on a futuristic robotic future.
They mixed a pretty good story and good characters, with over the top, "in your face" action scenes(wich i loved).

On the same note, DEx3 could be mixing these two elements together; it's not like Jensen has become a smartass with a catchphrase after every kill-- acrobatic executions may be over the top, but so are many action sequences from GitS, it's just what you expect to see when you heard about augmented cyborgs and special combat forces, in an action movie/game.
Deus Ex could always feature shitty writing, ofcourse, nothing that has came up with this preview though.

 

[Timekiller]

:lol

I just don't understand why some folk are getting so agro over a game of which we've seen virtually nothing yet.

just a quick clarification - you didn't see virtually nothing of some aspects, you've seen a good amount of other aspects. It's only that the olny aspects you care about still have to be shown, while i cared about characterization, settings and style too, as much as i care about mechanics and other aspects of the design process, or technology.

 

[erpg]

Fight the power, dudes. Human revolution and all that jazz.

 

[Gattsu25]

well, yes! that's the problem with me in fact, the producer and the 95% of the consumers selecting and shaping this industry.

If only there were a community of game developers that independently developed their games without softening them up for mass consumption. These independent games could fully explore the themes which may not be palatable to the mainstream. Too bad this sort of independent development environment does not exist. A community of independent game designers would be great, but is just a pipe dream.

Edit: Don't get me wrong, I think you might be spot on with some of your assumptions, but as soon as you posted a youtube of anime you lost me.

I think DX3 will be a fun game but it looks like it doesn't have a visionary game producer behind it. It's a shame, but it still better than I would expect out of the series after the dismal second game.

 

[lorddarkflare]

well, yes! that's the problem with me in fact, the producer and the 95% of the consumers selecting and shaping this industry.

With numbers that high, they should be shaping the industry.

May not be something you want to hear, but it is the truth.

 

[Stallion Free]

You never played the original DE with it's crappy main story, did you?

Wait... what? Did I play the same game as you? DE had a pretty fucking great main story if you are into those themes and the genre.

 

[UrbanRats]

You never played the original DE with it's crappy main story, did you?

Anyway, you're right. Deus Ex 3 is probably going to have a crappy main story and superficial characters, just like DE1, DE2, and every other game for every platform made to date. The best thing to hope for from Deus Ex 3 is not the next War and Peace, but for a sequel that keeps the openness, flexibility, and atmosphere of the original, and fixes some of the most glaring problems without introducing too many new ones. It's still far too early to make that call.

Yeah, i mean, it's not like games were high art, 10 years ago.

EDIT: Just to clarify, i'm referring to the bolded part.

 

[Timekiller]

@TimeKiller: You're assuming a lot of stuff though.
Cheesy action sequences that only served the purpose of "fun", were present in all of the GitS iterations, it's not like they were ultra sober take on a futuristic robotic future.
They mixed a pretty good story and good characters, with over the top, "in your face" action scenes(wich i loved).

On the same note, DEx3 could be mixing these two elements together; it's not like Jensen has become a smartass with a catchphrase after every kill-- acrobatic executions may be over the top, but so are many action sequences from GitS, it's just what you expect to see when you heard about augmented cyborgs and special combat forces, in an action movie/game.
Deus Ex could always feature shitty writing, ofcourse, nothing that has came up with this preview though.

I still consider the Gits action sequences something that was done to let them appear overprofessional and personal, a subtle way to show how cathartic it was for them to fulfill their duty ultraviolently. But the point is - it was in the style. They joke about it, they play with the foe like a cat would do, they start from a defensive stance (invisibility to play it safe), but they never act overdramatic and cool, and the end of it is always the same: all puppets.

It's a subtle difference, but it's the one that puts Blade Runner-like material on one side (the subtly vanitous - remember the girl doing circus like moves to kill Deckart?) and Matrix-like material on the other (the cheesy - hey look i'm a bad ass motherfucker).
Kusanagi can be pretty in her fightinng like a vanitous girl would be

 

[Numpt3]

It's only that the olny aspects you care about still have to be shown, while i cared about characterization, settings and style too

Don't get me wrong I care about those just as much, but personally I think they have nailed it in terms of style/setting. I just hope that they can back it up with something of substance.

 

[Brobzoid]

this entire discussion is preposterous. Of course the game is going to be a power fantasy. It's a big budget multi-SKU release from one of the largest publishers in the business. The general consumer considers power fantasies a major part of video games - shit, it's probably essential.

If y'all need 'deeper' games you shouldn't be looking at "AAA" games. They are made with lowest common denominator in mind.

Spoiler

May I recommend The Void?

 

[Gattsu25]

I still consider the Gits action sequences something that was done to let them appear overprofessional and personal, a subtle way to show how cathartic it was for them to fulfill their duty ultraviolently. But the point is - it was in the style. They joke about it, they play with the foe like a cat would do, they start from a defensive stance (invisibility to play it safe), but they never act overdramatic and cool, and the end of it is always the same: all puppets.

It's a subtle difference, but it's the one that puts Blade Runner-like material on one side (the subtly vanitous - remember the girl doing circus like moves to kill Deckart?) and Equilibrium-like material on the other (the cheesy - hey look i'm a bad ass augmented motherfucker).
Kutanagi can be pretty in her fightinng like a vanitous girl would be

On the topic of stylized for the sake of being stylized, wasn't GitS the movie where the girl spent the entire film in a skin-colored flesh suit?

 

[Timekiller]

If only there were a community of game developers that independently developed their games without softening them up for mass consumption. These independent games could fully explore the themes which may not be palatable to the mainstream. Too bad this sort of independent development environment does not exist. A community of independent game designers would be great, but is just a pipe dream.

Edit: Don't get me wrong, I think you might be spot on with some of your assumptions, but as soon as you posted a youtube of anime you lost me.

I think DX3 will be a fun game but it looks like it doesn't have a visionary game producer behind it. It's a shame, but it still better than I would expect out of the series after the dismal second game.

I didn't post "a youtube of anime", i posted a Mamoru Oshii's script example.
I was about to talk about Gibson, but hey, people will start pulling "monocle" jokes.

Also: Anime are 95% bullshit as games are, so it makes for a good comparison of what could be something mainstream coming from a weak industry that works for a childlish market of teenagers that need cool sequences BUT also something that was developed by a mind (Oshi's) that used the medium with good potential to try to vehiculate some depth with it. And the movie is about augmented and androids, a landmark, that's why i did it.

Plus - you're right. It's all in the independent games, that someday will have the same tools at disposal (think of the hiquality cheap digital camcoders market revolution) and find economic strategies to counterattack the mainstream exploitation.

 

[Confidence Man]

this entire discussion is preposterous. Of course the game is going to be a power fantasy. It's a big budget multi-SKU release from one of the largest publishers in the business. The general consumer considers power fantasies a major part of video games - shit, it's probably essential.

If y'all need 'deeper' games you shouldn't be looking at "AAA" games. They are made with lowest common denominator in mind.

Spoiler

May I recommend The Void?

Ah, if only there could be a big-budget AAA title that sells millions of copies while retaining deeper gameplay mechanics like having a skill system, stat-based shooting, limb damage and crippling, non-regenenerating health, etc..

Spoiler

Fallout 3

 

[Gattsu25]

I guess I'm just one of those farts that likes his dystopians in the vein of Blade Runner or Nueromancer. Snow Crash and Ghost in the Shell I could do without.

 

[lorddarkflare]

on't get me wrong, I think you might be spot on with some of your assumptions, but as soon as you posted a youtube of anime you lost me.

He did not post any anime, he posted 'Ghost in the Shell.'

In terms of quality, you do not get much better than that when it comes to cartoons/anime.

 

[Timekiller]

On the topic of stylized for the sake of being stylized, wasn't GitS the movie where the girl spent the entire film in a skin-colored flesh suit?

Spot on too - it's because it's an anime. The manga background it's coming from, the Shirow manga, its even more cheesy and comical and sexual than the movie - big boobs and cool gadgets - that's why it's a good comparison imho. Oshi took a product for nerds like videogames today are and tried to inject it with even more materials that usually the same marke would dismiss as boring. So, yes, it's radically different, and yes, it still has nerdy aspects but they are there with a different style that create a subtle alchemy reaction, and it's what separates that movie from the bullshit parade of Matrix like material, where DX3 seems to take its step.One is badass guys acting cool, the others are puppets trying to feel empowered and be pretty while they just feel like pathetic dolls with an immense power in their carbon-fiber hands.

It's simple as that - noone tought about it that much like we are doing now, it's all about in "what the kids today would like". And the answer is staggeringly similar to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IBNACePYk4

 

[UrbanRats]

I still consider the Gits action sequences something that was done to let them appear overprofessional and personal, a subtle way to show how cathartic it was for them to fulfill their duty ultraviolently. But the point is - it was in the style. They joke about it, they play with the foe like a cat would do, they start from a defensive stance (invisibility to play it safe), but they never act overdramatic and cool, and the end of it is always the same: all puppets.

It's a subtle difference, but it's the one that puts Blade Runner-like material on one side (the subtly vanitous - remember the girl doing circus like moves to kill Deckart?) and Equilibrium-like material on the other (the cheesy - hey look i'm a bad ass augmented motherfucker).
Kutanagi can be pretty in her fightinng like a vanitous girl would be

When you say "GitS" you talk about the two movies or in general?Cause there is a substantial difference, between the movies, the TV series and the comicbooks.
--
Anyway, there are elements of GitS that i read simply as fanservice(i may be wrong, mind you)for example the fact that the Major must be so sexually explicit, when her character is instead totally sober and serious.
Also she often change her body, but still, instead of taking something more combat efficent, she continue to go for the big titted violet haired pretty girl.
There's the point that she still have a Ghost in her, and have kind of a conflict inside, so i can see her keeping somewhat of a feminine form, but still, i found it completely out of character to go to this extreme of useless sensuality:

(sorry, taken the first image on google)
The reason is simply cause Shirou like to draw hot babes, as simple as that.

I can forgive to DEx3 a bit of fan service, if it doesn't distract you from the whole mood too much(wich seeing conveniently placed shots at Kusanagi's butt did, actually. In a bad way).
And until we see how bad these flourish finish moves are, we cannot really estimate the magnitude of the failure. eh.

EDIT: Ah, you guys goes too fast.

 

[Gattsu25]

Spot on too - it's because it's an anime. The manga background it's coming from, the Shirow manga, its even more cheesy and comical and sexual than the movie - big boobs and cool gadgets - that's why it's a good comparison imho. Oshi took a product for nerds like videogames today are and tried to inject it with even more materials that usually the same marke would dismiss as boring. So, yes, it's radically different, and yes, it still has nerdy aspects but they are there with a different style that create a subtle alchemy reaction, and it's what separates that movie from the bullshit parade of Matrix like material, where DX3 seems to take its step.One is badass guys acting cool, the others is puppets trying to be empowered and pretty while they just feel like pathetic dools with an immens power in their carbon-fiber hands.

It's simple as that - noone tought about it that much like we are doing now, it's all about in "what the kids today would like". And the answer is staggeringly similar to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IBNACePYk4

'Oshi' being the person that made the tv series?

edit: eh, he made the Patlabor movies, Jin-Roh and had a hand in Blood the Last Vampire? If he was involved in Perfect Blue and Bersker he would have had a hand in all the anime that I consider great.

I guess I like this guy's stuff, but I walked away from GitS thinking it was fan service

 

[Timekiller]

I guess I'm just one of those farts that likes his dystopians in the vein of Blade Runner or Nueromancer. Snow Crash and Ghost in the Shell I could do without.

Same as me i would say, except: the way the japanese background serves as a lens through which a japanes man philosophically elaborates the theme of the android and the cybernetic in comparison to the japanese buraku and the european aestetic of the dolls (like Ballmer's) is still one fo the most interesting approaches i've ever seen. Chapeau to Oshii. It's not a coincidence that Blade Runner has a zeppelin going around showing a geisha's face eating candy.

 

[Timekiller]

'Oshi' being the person that made the tv series?

No that's Kamiyama, he thinks he can emulate Oshii but he just doesn't understand. Ohii sort of provided a guide for the plots, in fact they are a bit more complex and intriguing, there are also a lot of uncommon themes for a mainstream anime series, but really, the series is mostly a Kamiyama work - less thought out then the movies, way less inspired and more cool-oriented.

@URBANRATS: No just the Oshii scripts, his two movies.

 

[UrbanRats]

'Oshi' being the person that made the tv series?

I think he just wrote the original subjects, for 1st and 2nd GIG.


Anyway i didn't like his other works(other than GitS), tbh.

 

[Timekiller]

The reason is simply cause Shirou like to draw hot babes, as simple as that.

RIGHT ON SPOT. That's why it's interesting to discuss it. It has a lot in common with the current state of what kind of content is present in today's videogames.

EDIT

But i'd add something esle: in early manga, putting sex in it was totally different. They were complex personalities, counterculture outcasts, and they lived their sexual desires like this, drawing hot sex scenes and at the same time, being counterculture, they were playing with taboos. Shirow still fits in that.
Now, its the opposite - it's just "put some pussy and boobs in it, the kids go crazy for that, we'll sell a double amount of this bullshit".

 

[lorddarkflare]

'Oshi' being the person that made the tv series?

edit: eh, he made the Patlabor movies, Jin-Roh and had a hand in Blood the Last Vampire? If he was involved in Perfect Blue and Bersker he would have had a hand in all the anime that I consider great.

I guess I like this guy's stuff, but I walked away from GitS thinking it was fan service

That is because a good deal of it is.

Still, the whole has substance if you ignore some of its baser parts.

 

[Fallout-NL]

A little awesome doesn't hurt.

 

[avatar299]

World Timekiller even recognize the game he is pining for?

 

[UrbanRats]

RIGHT ON SPOT. That's why it's interesting to discuss it. It has a lot in common with the current state of what kind of content is present in today's videogames.

EDIT

But i'd add something esle: in early manga, putting sex in it was totally different. They were complex personalities, counterculture outcasts, and they lived their sexual desires like this, drawing hot sex scenes and at the same time, being counterculture, they were playing with taboos. Shirow still fits in that.
Now, its the opposite - it's just "put some pussy and boobs in it, the kids go crazy for that, we'll sell a double amount of this bullshit".

YEah there's still a percentage of Manga artist who are actually shut-ins(google: Kentaro Miura).:lol
But seriously, i think, on my part, i just assume videogames are stupid, by default.
So most of the time, it doesn't bother me at all to go through a story like the HALO one(granted, i skip the cinematics :lol ).
It's like a passive acceptance, i guess?But i have two separate state of critical thinking, when i'm, say, watching a movie or playing a game.
Sometimes it pops in my head that it shouldn't have to be like this(like in the SH thread)but at the same time, you look at how the economic system work, and you realize that a game that cost 30.000.000.00$, with 200 people involved, can not be aimed to a niche audience.
As somobody already said, you want deep and intellectually challenging experience? You look forward to low budget stuff, like The Void, like Journey or whatever.
As you said, as technology will become cheaper and cheaper, tools will become available for more people to create decent experiences with a reasonable budget. (it's already happening)

 

[Timekiller]

A little awesome doesn't hurt.

The interesting thing is that they are both augmented, but radically differtent: one is still mostly human, the other has moved on the other side of the fence. One is "working", but he doesn't want to be totally committed, he needs to separate in order to live.
The other is working - like he's pushign a button to move the investrigation forward, plays puchlines like broken record with the same tone. Batou's a fascist in some way, but he doesn't really understand it. In fact, in this scene (from 2:15 if you want to go faster) you still get that he can be consciuos, but only if he kills one of its own kind, not humans: in the alley, it's the opposite with the yakuza - he put this android out of her misery.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltsxcEYRv8k

 

[Timekiller]

World Timekiller even recognize the game he is pining for?

In this sea of shit, it will be as evident as an atomic explosion :lol

 

[Timekiller]

YEah there's still a percentage of Manga artist who are actually shut-ins(google: Kentaro Miura).:lol
But seriously, i think, on my part, i just assume videogames are stupid, by default.
So most of the time, it doesn't bother me at all to go through a story like the HALO one(granted, i skip the cinematics :lol ).
It's like a passive acceptance, i guess?But i have two separate state of critical thinking, when i'm, say, watching a movie or playing a game.
Sometimes it pops in my head that it shouldn't have to be like this(like in the SH thread)but at the same time, you look at how the economic system work, and you realize that a game that cost 30.000.000.00$, with 200 people involved, can not be aimed to a niche audience.
As somobody already said, you want deep and intellectually challenging experience? You look forward to low budget stuff, like The Void, like Journey or whatever.
As you said, as technology will become cheaper and cheaper, tools will become available for more people to create decent experiences with a reasonable budget. (it's already happening)

Yes, exactly. i usually suffer the same kind of schizophrenic behavour and still play mostly niche indies, once in a while checking what appears once in a year in the mainstream that could be worth to check. And this goes back to: "why, oh why, it's the mainstream superficial nerd the model of this market?". All this money and technology for a content this cheap, for a slowmo somersault badass kick. It's a pity imho.

 

[lorddarkflare]

I am similar to you two, but completely different at the same time.

In just about every other medium, I demand a modicum of intelligence before I dedicate any my time or money.

When it comes to games though, I only look for one experience and one experience only (that of the male power fantasy variety). Even here I usually still want some level of intelligence, but I have no problem playing the latest Gears of War game just after having read a Phillip Roth novel.

I suppose this is primarily the reasons why the mainstreaming of games does not bother too much: I never really took it seriously in the first place.

 

[sn00zer]

Holy shit people... man Neogaf is really split between really interesting views into the industry and people who do nothing but criticize other peoples work based on the assumption that only they know how videogames should be made... sheesh people its really hard to want to stick around when people scrutinize screenshots and gameplay mechanics of a game they havent played

Anyway Deus Ex 3 looks awesome, videogames are about the best they have ever been (of course there are still fantastic classics), just chill and bask in the awesomeness of this generation

 

[clip]

Holy shit people... man Neogaf is really split between really interesting views into the industry and people who do nothing but criticize other peoples work based on the assumption that only they know how videogames should be made... sheesh people its really hard to want to stick around when people scrutinize screenshots and gameplay mechanics of a game they havent played

Anyway Deus Ex 3 looks awesome, videogames are about the best they have ever been (of course there are still fantastic classics), just chill and bask in the awesomeness of this generation

Those of us that cherish Deus Ex as one of, if not the, best PC game ever made have genuine concerns. I've yet to see a console game emulate the level of complexity and granularity that the original DE achieved.

I hold DE to be something very special, and I'm setting my expectations accordingly.

 

[Gorgon]

Those of us that cherish Deus Ex as one of, if not the, best PC game ever made have genuine concerns. I've yet to see a console game emulate the level of complexity and granularity that the original DE achieved.

I hold DE to be something very special, and I'm setting my expectations accordingly.

Still this shit? Deus Ex 3 will be what it will because it will sell more regardless of platform. Why not simply say that you've "yet to see a game emulate the level of complexity and granularity that the original DE achieved" and just drop the obligatory "console" remark in there? For fucks sake people.

 

[1-D_FTW]

Holy shit people... man Neogaf is really split between really interesting views into the industry and people who do nothing but criticize other peoples work based on the assumption that only they know how videogames should be made... sheesh people its really hard to want to stick around when people scrutinize screenshots and gameplay mechanics of a game they havent played

Anyway Deus Ex 3 looks awesome, videogames are about the best they have ever been (of course there are still fantastic classics), just chill and bask in the awesomeness of this generation

Who's saying anyone thinks there's only one way to make a game? I think most of the critics are saying the exact opposite. Why does the industry have such a hard on to emulate CoD's simplified interactive cinematics. This is what people are fearing in this thread. Just another homogenized corpse with CoD's fingerprints all over it.

 

[ColonelColon]

Pitiful, to me, is your level of discussion. First, i'm talking about characterization and setting, and it doesn't matter if it's 20 minutes or 1 minute - they presented their material and for now the premise shows 100% bullshit.
It's pathetic how you use attachments, not that you use them. The discourse? You still don't get it do you. IT can be left out - videogames are for experiencing that level of depth, not listening to people arguing about it.
And i'm not talking about the story at all, again we're talking about characterization and setting, not story.And also, maybe you mean plot, not story. Story is the one that we make through gameplay, plot is the one you're talkign about. Hey if you want to answer again, put some "monocle" jokes. :lol

I don't think you've really explained how or why the story as presented in the trailer is "bullshit". I don't know if you were as immediately dismissive of Deus Ex as you have been with Human Revolution, but as they have shown the game so far, there doesn't really seem to be much deviation at all from the themes of the original game. In any case, the CGI trailer is marketing material from Square Enix and as far as I know, no one from Eidos Montreal had a hand in its creation. They even rejected the first iteration of the trailer.