Developers on why Indiana Jones is First Person: "First-person gameplay is part of MachineGames’ DNA"

S0ULZB0URNE said:
Wait it's not 3rd person?
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Apparently that would make it be too much like Uncharted. Which is an Indiana Jones ripoff with a less likeable main character. If Indiana Jones were third person it would be too much like an Indiana Jones game. Simple logic right?
 
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ungalo said:
What does that even mean ? What plays on the strenght of the studio benefits the game.

I can understand people preferring a third person experience but not to the extent where we can call this choice out of place. It's not a Dark Souls racing game or something like that.
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Now I want a Dark Souls racing game.
 
I feel sorry for the ghost runner devs....

Anyway. I would love to play this hypertherical indy game everyone is saying.

Would it be better than this, I have no idea. I'm a huge uncharted fan and I found number 4 bored me to tears. Lost legacy though....

So basically, yes an uncharted 2 with less shooting...a lot less shooting....more fist fighting....with some nice shooting, chase set pieces. Yeah....that would have been amazing if done right.

I still am in the camp that it's been done with Tomb raider and uncharted...which I guess is fine...but I think this could be handled very well.

There seems to be sections where it does pull out to third person, hopefully there's some surprise sequences like that for those that want it and the game offers a nice balance for both parties.

It undoubtedly will be majority first person, but some surprise sections in third would be nice.
 
I think it's a wise decision to play to your strengths. I'd obviously rather take a great 1st person game than a crappy 3rd person game just because 'it should always be 3rd person no matter what'.

Someone at Bethesda decided Arkane should make a multiplayer shooter/GAAS game. A genre they had no experience with and seemingly also very little interest in making, and look how that turned out..
 
Machine Games make good First Person games, Wolfenstein, it doesn't bother me it isn't 3rd, i play both depending on the game,the only Indiana Jones game i played was in 1999 on PC, and i didn't finish it, the tomb raider games, which i played a lot off back then were more indiana jones than indiana jones to me, and yeah they are better 3rd person, but i don't quite get the view issue, Machine Games don't make 3rd person games to the best of my knowledge so it shouldn't be a surprise its first person, if they make a better game that way, so be it, it's the story that concern's me after all its Disney behind it, and lucasfilm isn't it, look at their output in the last 10 years lol
 
DenchDeckard said:
I feel sorry for the ghost runner devs....

Anyway. I would love to play this hypertherical indy game everyone is saying.

Would it be better than this, I have no idea. I'm a huge uncharted fan and I found number 4 bored me to tears. Lost legacy though....

So basically, yes an uncharted 2 with less shooting...a lot less shooting....more fist fighting....with some nice shooting, chase set pieces. Yeah....that would have been amazing if done right.

I still am in the camp that it's been done with Tomb raider and uncharted...which I guess is fine...but I think this could be handled very well.

There seems to be sections where it does pull out to third person, hopefully there's some surprise sequences like that for those that want it and the game offers a nice balance for both parties.

It undoubtedly will be majority first person, but some surprise sections in third would be nice.
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And a whip being used for attacking, lassoing, disarming, grappling, swinging, puzzle solving, etc.
 
So, let me get this straight, because other I.P have made games that riff on the Indiana Jones character and themes, or in some cases outright copied the whole franchise, we now can't have an Indy game that has traversal, puzzles, whip swinging, hand to hand combat etc...in a third person perspective?

Is that the argument being put forward by some in here?

Why not do it better?

Why not give us that game we all know the I.P deserves, with all the action set pieces and excitement the early films offered.

It just feels like a game with such a well known character needs to have that character on screen all the time.

Anyway, it's obviously not going to happen, so we can only hope another studio gives us that game or modders can make it a reality.
 
The Cyberpunk comparison is honestly not getting what made 1st person the correct choice for that game.

That game's main character is Night City itself, the entire idea of the game is for you to be immersed into the vibes of the city and world building they did while making impactful choices.

Conversely when it comes to the Indy game, who the fuck cares about being immersed in some fictional ruins that have nothing distinctive about them from a visual standpoint? You are here for the character itself and the story, so it makes far more sense to unify the camera perspective, meaning either go with 3rd or 1st person all the way, buuuuut, 1st person perspective while swinging around might be a terrible idea for vertigo etc, hence the reason 3rd person became the standard for this subgenre.

Between the game being based on an obsolete and outpaced IP (if you think the latest film's failure is because of the filmmakers alone, then you clearly never saw the film for yourself), the weird choice to go mixed camera and being shackled to one of the lowest-purchasing console userbases of all time, I predict another financial flop.
 
Guerilla Games was known for making first person games too. They branched out and seemed to be pretty successful.

The scope of this is going to be limited. Western development is turning into well we do a few things really well and let's stick to that.
 
Katajx said:
Guerilla Games was known for making first person games too. They branched out and seemed to be pretty successful.

The scope of this is going to be limited. Western development is turning into well we do a few things really well and let's stick to that.
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People don't understand that these developers took a Sci-Fi movie where the main character spent 75% of the movie tied up and never used a gun and turned it into a first person game and one of the best movie based games ever made.
 
Katajx said:
Guerilla Games was known for making first person games too. They branched out and seemed to be pretty successful.

The scope of this is going to be limited. Western development is turning into well we do a few things really well and let's stick to that.
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they simply dont have the technical prowess for that kinda switch at the time, its pretty apparent from the wooden 3rd person action sections they showed.
game would be a disaster if it went full 3rd person, would be constantly compared and ridiculed against a decade old U4.
first person is the right choice in that sense, might also turn up fun, who knows. though hype deflated for me quite a bit.

in the end it was the wrong studio to handle such ip, another blunder
 
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Ar¢tos said:
Didn't someone once invent some weird VR system with cameras that allowed the user to see himself in 3rd person real-time?
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Ice Cream No GIF
 
look they can make a fps if they want and I can say nah not interested and move on the market will decide but for me personally…
Im Out Shark Tank GIF by ABC Network
 
S0ULZB0URNE said:
Pitfall
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The more you know, David Crane actually took inspiration from Indiana Jones when creating Pitfall. There has been many games inspired by Indy, either in the looks or themes. Pitfall, Spelunky, Rick Dangerous, Tomb Raider, Uncharted to name a few.
 
DenchDeckard said:
I feel sorry for the ghost runner devs....

Anyway. I would love to play this hypertherical indy game everyone is saying.

Would it be better than this, I have no idea. I'm a huge uncharted fan and I found number 4 bored me to tears. Lost legacy though....

So basically, yes an uncharted 2 with less shooting...a lot less shooting....more fist fighting....with some nice shooting, chase set pieces. Yeah....that would have been amazing if done right.

I still am in the camp that it's been done with Tomb raider and uncharted...which I guess is fine...but I think this could be handled very well.

There seems to be sections where it does pull out to third person, hopefully there's some surprise sequences like that for those that want it and the game offers a nice balance for both parties.

It undoubtedly will be majority first person, but some surprise sections in third would be nice.
Click to expand...

Lucasarts cancelled the PS3 and 360 Staff of Kings specifically because the first Uncharted released and they didn't want Indy to be compared to it. After five Uncharted games I double Lucasfilm would even greenlight an Indy game like that.
 
Whats funny is that Tomb Raider and Uncharted were Indy ripoffs. They couldnt make an indie game so they made ripoffs instead. Now you finally have the IP and LucasFilm willing to let you use indy's face and you shy away from it because of ripoffs? You are not discount uncharted. uncharted is discount Indy. You are the big dick. You are the king of the jungle. you dont have to be scared of some posers. Even if those posers turned into GOTY winners thanks to the sheer talent of those studios.

If a ripoff can overcome dude raider and dude of war comparisons to become the most iconic sony franchise in the last two decades then surely Indy could overcome comparisons to uncharted.

This is so stupid.
 
Katajx said:
Guerilla Games was known for making first person games too. They branched out and seemed to be pretty successful.

The scope of this is going to be limited. Western development is turning into well we do a few things really well and let's stick to that.
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en.m.wikipedia.org

The Chronicles of Riddick: Escape from Butcher Bay - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org

Feel free to scroll down to the 'reception' part.

Astray said:
The Cyberpunk comparison is honestly not getting what made 1st person the correct choice for that game.

That game's main character is Night City itself, the entire idea of the game is for you to be immersed into the vibes of the city and world building they did while making impactful choices.
Click to expand...

The hilarious thing is this is the rationale CDPR gave for making the game First Person. Didn't stop everyone from thinking they knew better and complaining the game should have been in Third Person

Apparently what the devs wanted matters for CDPR, but not for MachineGames?


Mister Wolf said:
Apparently that would make it be too much like Uncharted. Which is an Indiana Jones ripoff with a less likeable main character. If Indiana Jones were third person it would be too much like an Indiana Jones game. Simple logic right?
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Uncharted and Tomb Raider rip off the Indiana Jones concept. It doesn't rip off any Indiana Jones game. There's no third person Indiana Jones game that predates Tomb Raider. None.

Historically, the IP has been used for point and click games, side scrolling platformers and top down games. This narrative that going First Person betrays the legacy is made up nonsense.

Astray said:
Conversely when it comes to the Indy game, who the fuck cares about being immersed in some fictional ruins that have nothing distinctive about them from a visual standpoint? You are here for the character itself and the story, so it makes far more sense to unify the camera perspective, meaning either go with 3rd or 1st person all the way, buuuuut, 1st person perspective while swinging around might be a terrible idea for vertigo etc, hence the reason 3rd person became the standard for this subgenre.
Click to expand...

And yet Goldeneye and Riddick, two games with known movie protagonists as the heros managed to be excellent, well received titles despite relying on First Person viewpoints AND third person for cutscenes or dramatic moments.



Astray said:
Between the game being based on an obsolete and outpaced IP (if you think the latest film's failure is because of the filmmakers alone, then you clearly never saw the film for yourself), the weird choice to go mixed camera and being shackled to one of the lowest-purchasing console userbases of all time, I predict another financial flop.
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Good thing it's getting a release on Steam too. Also a great thing that the people who subscribe to GamePass to play games like these end up paying money for the subscription, not bananas or coconuts, eh?
 
Ozriel said:
The hilarious thing is this is the rationale CDPR gave for making the game First Person. Didn't stop everyone from thinking they knew better and complaining the game should have been in Third Person

Apparently what the devs wanted matters for CDPR, but not for MachineGames?
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I didn't follow the 3rd person thing for CP2077 so I can't comment on that. But it's worth mentioning that it was CDPR's 1st ever first person project, so they took a risk for what they thought was correct for the project.

Does this apply to Machine Games? They are literally saying "we do 1st person projects so we will stay doing them", even when it's clearly the wrong thing for the project.
 
Astray said:
Does this apply to Machine Games? They are literally saying "we do 1st person projects so we will stay doing them", even when it's clearly the wrong thing for the project.
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But how is it "CLEARLY" the wrong thing for the project when the developers are saying they believed it will lead to a more immersive game in first person.

A different developer might have done it differently, but the one developing this game thinks they can make a better game in the first person perspective.
 
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SmokedMeat said:
large.jpg


It'll never work.
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I feel the same way about this. A competent third person Metroid made by someone like Housemarque/Returnal with guidance by Nintendo would be just as good as any Prime game if not better. And would certainly be more popular with customers. You take Returnal's high speed third person combat and slap on all of the rest of the Metroid bells and whistles, and it would crush any Prime game in sales. Throw in a preorder Zero Suit skin for good measure.
 
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Ar¢tos said:
Didn't someone once invent some weird VR system with cameras that allowed the user to see himself in 3rd person real-time?
Click to expand...
You don't say. I'm definitely looking this up!

When I was 16, I was obsessed with having in-game mechanics have realistic explanations. I also liked 3rd person games.

So in a story I wrote (Ghost in the Shell meets Metal Gear Solid), the main character could wirelessly hack cameras in a room and have that feed sent to them.

This would explain being able to know where enemies are, obstacles and such because the view the gamer has was the view the character had.

Yes there were sections with no cameras so those would've been in first person but you could unlock a drone at the expense of stealth.

I was 16.

I guess it's why, nearly 20 years later when I first discovered From games, I became a fan hahaha
 
Astray said:
I didn't follow the 3rd person thing for CP2077 so I can't comment on that. But it's worth mentioning that it was CDPR's 1st ever first person project, so they took a risk for what they thought was correct for the project.

Does this apply to Machine Games? They are literally saying "we do 1st person projects so we will stay doing them", even when it's clearly the wrong thing for the project.
Click to expand...

No. They're literally saying "we're making an immersive Indiana Jones game and we think First Person viewpoint puts you in the shoes of Indiana Jones from archaeology to combat. Luckily, First Person immersive games is in our DNA".

It's a silly, warz inspired read for anyone to imagine they'd have made a third person game if they had more talent.

Game devs are fluid and can easily pivot. Playground is making a third person Fable RPG with a racing game engine. Double Helix had never made a fighting game before Killer Instinct (2013).

Astray said:
even when it's clearly the wrong thing for the project.
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The crazy thing is that the only sentiment behind this claim is "B-but Uncharted and Tomb Raider!"

Nothing else.

If you guys were around back then, you'd have been screaming that Riddick absolutely had to be third person.
 
Mister Wolf said:
I feel the same way about this. A competent third person Metroid made by someone like Housemarque/Returnal with guidance by Nintendo would be just as good as any Prime game if not better. And would certainly be more popular with customers. You take Returnal's high speed third person combat and slap on all of the rest of the Metroid bells and whistles, and it would crush any Prime game in sales. Throw in a preorder Zero Suit skin for good measure.
Click to expand...

And yet Returnal sold poorly. Both on console AND on PC.
Turns out 'High speed third person combat' isn't the instant elixir you think it is.

vTCY0PO.jpg


I'm not sure how much 'better' you want to get than a 97 rated game that won GOTY awards.

Ironically the game was originally conceived as a 3D title before Miyamoto saw the struggles Rare was having with Jet Force Gemini and intervened to make Prime First Person, for better shooting, adventuring and immersion. You certainly wouldn't have the visor systems with a third person game.
 
Ozriel said:
And yet Returnal sold poorly. Both on console AND on PC.
Turns out 'High speed third person combat' isn't the instant elixir you think it is.

vTCY0PO.jpg


I'm not sure how much 'better' you want to get than a 97 rated game that won GOTY awards.

Ironically the game was originally conceived as a 3D title before Miyamoto saw the struggles Rare was having with Jet Force Gemini and intervened to make Prime First Person, for better shooting, adventuring and immersion. You certainly wouldn't have the visor systems with a third person game.
Click to expand...

I said a Metroid game using Returnal's combat and perspective. And I mentioned reception from customers in purchases, not what critics think.
 
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This doesn't make sense what so ever. Yes, I believe first-person mode is lazy mode as it is easier to develop as no complex camera and limited level view and no extra animation. But my issue is not with first person if let say this is a horror game and their excuse for the implementation is that you're the one in front and to relay on immersion, even though DS Remake and AW2 are the latest examples that a third person camera is as scary if not more scary than first person view.

The problem with this game though is that it's an iconic character and face that you can't see. Imagine a Batman movie but from first person perspective or a first person Mario game. I mean why Indiana Jones? Call it Larry Crofto and put that license money into actually making a good first person adventure game and you might actually start a successful franchise.

This is so stupid.
 
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hemo memo said:
This doesn't make sense what so ever. Yes, I believe first-person mode is lazy mode as it is easier to develop as no complex camera and limited level view and no extra animation. But my issue is not with first person if let say this is a horror game and their excuse for the implementation is that you're the one in front and to relay on immersion, even though DS Remake and AW2 are the latest examples that a third person camera is as scary if not more scary than first person view.

The problem with this game though is that it's an iconic character and face that you can't see. Imagine a Batman movie but from first person perspective or a first person Mario game. I mean why Indiana Jones? Call it Larry Crofto and put that license money into actually making a good first person adventure game and you might actually start a successful franchise.

This is so stupid.
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You mean like robocop? Iconic character first person people love the shit out of the game.

If you need to see that character for a movie based ip to know who it is then the developer failed in the atmosphere. If indy was like blade and crazy sword and gun play then i agree. For a more slower paced with lots of stealth first person is fine.
 
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hemo memo said:
This doesn't make sense what so ever. Yes, I believe first-person mode is lazy mode as it is easier to develop as no complex camera and limited level view and no extra animation. But my issue is not with first person if let say this is a horror game and their excuse for the implementation is that you're the one in front and to relay on immersion, even though DS Remake and AW2 are the latest examples that a third person camera is as scary if not more scary than first person view.

The problem with this game though is that it's an iconic character and face that you can't see. Imagine a Batman movie but from first person perspective or a first person Mario game. I mean why Indiana Jones? Call it Larry Crofto and put that license money into actually making a good first person adventure game and you might actually start a successful franchise.

This is so stupid.
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They have cutscenes and 3rd person sections so you do see him.
 
adamsapple said:
But how is it "CLEARLY" the wrong thing for the project when the developers are saying they believed it will lead to a more immersive game in first person.

A different developer might have done it differently, but the one developing this game thinks they can make a better game in the first person perspective.
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It's clearly the wrong thing because what you'd want out of this project to actually become the best version of itself is clearly much better served with a 3rd person view.

Otherwise, they wouldn't have felt the need to switch to 3rd person during certain moments of gameplay, like swinging for example (let's leave cutscenes aside).

Just because your competitors took the right option doesn't mean you have to force a square into a circle so you'd "stand-out". Being worse than the other options on the market can also make you stand out.
 
Reminds me when Cyberpunk 2077 was revealed to be an FPS, same baby tantrums.

Some of the best most immersive games are in First Person View.

System Shock, Thief, Dishonored, Deus Ex, Might and Magic, Wizardry, Bioshock, Fallout New Vega, Elder Scrolls etc...

I would love an immersive first person puzzle solving adventure game with Indiana Jones, we already have excellent first person puzzle solving games with Portal and people act like it's not a good fit. Do us a favor and stick to playing games instead of armchair game developing.
 
The first reason (they're more experienced in this type of camera perspective gameplay) is better than the other one (be different from competition).

I don't like the choice, but maybe they can pull it through and make a fun game.
 
Red5 said:
Reminds me when Cyberpunk 2077 was revealed to be an FPS, same baby tantrums.

Some of the best most immersive games are in First Person View.

System Shock, Thief, Dishonored, Deus Ex, Might and Magic, Wizardry, Bioshock, Fallout New Vega, Elder Scrolls etc...

I would love an immersive first person puzzle solving adventure game with Indiana Jones, we already have excellent first person puzzle solving games with Portal and people act like it's not a good fit. Do us a favor and stick to playing games instead of armchair game developing.
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Meh... 1st person or 3rd person immersion in flat screen is about the same.
Real immersion is 1st person VR (or 4th person).
 
Ar¢tos said:
Meh... 1st person or 3rd person immersion in flat screen is about the same.
Real immersion is 1st person VR (or 4th person).
Click to expand...

Hell yeah, all of the immersive sims are a great fit for VR. Indiana Jones in VR would be awesome too.
 
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