It is nice. Good sized, nicely printed and I think any fan of the franchise would be happy with it. There were some images that I have never seen before. I am pleased with it.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Devil May Cry 4 Special Edition |OT| Two girls, one motivated Vergil
- Thread starter Sigmaah
- Start date
It is nice. Good sized, nicely printed and I think any fan of the franchise would be happy with it. There were some images that I have never seen before. I am pleased with it.
Son Of Sparda
Member
Oh boy, OH BOY!
Son Of Sparda
Member
Didn't you guys concluded that a community thread will eventually just turn into a fan art topic so we shouldn't bother with one?
I don't agree with the sentiment, tho.
I don't agree with the sentiment, tho.
Son Of Sparda
Member
There will be so much irony in this Death Battle. Biggest one would be the fact that every DMC fan will suddenly notice DMC2 and accept the fact that it exist, LOL.
I mean why wouldn't he?
By profession Bayo is an Angel killer who uses some demonic abilities to counter the angels. Dante on the other hand has made a profession out of killing demons and stuff with demonic abilities (like old men acquiring Sparda's power).
I also think Dante's stamina, durability, regeneration and physical strength is better than Bayonetta and him being in DT would probably put him above in speed as well.
Main point of contention Bayonetta fans bring up is that Bayo can slow down time and stuff. Well not only does Dante also have Quicksilver which he can use on command, he already killed a demon with the ability to slow down time (Geryon). The slow time thing isn't going to be a deciding factor in the fight.
They have both had fights at near cosmic level like Bayo's fight with Jubilius and Dante's fight with Mundus. Dante has only apparently gotten stronger since then, doesn't even need the Sparda sword to fight.
This is not even including stuff like DMC2 and the possibility of them entertaining a shared universe where Dante's mother is in fact also an Umbran witch.
AgentLampshade
Member
Yeah, well I was playing around with making headers and stuff to at least to see what worked. The headline banner I'm quite happy with, but I couldn't quite decide on a good aesthetic for the individual segment headlines. Then Christmas happened and I got too busy, and just haven't put much thought into it since. I'd be happy to continue if folks are willing to help. I don't...I don't like writing much.
As for Bayonetta vs Dante; Remember that Bayonetta is the Left Eye of the World which means...something. I dunno, I haven't played Bayonetta 2 so I'm not sure how she amps up her powers. Though I get the feeling Screw Attack are going to forget about Dantes full arsenal (Quicksilver probably won't even be mentioned) and limit him to his DMC4 arsenal and styles (which should include Yamato though). I can't comment on Bayonetta's full skills though, aside from summoning demons (which should actually put her at a disadvantage in the fight since this is what Dante has spent his life fighting).
Also:
SOON
Son Of Sparda
Member
I haven't played Bayo2 yet but didn't people say that she wields ridiculous powers in that game? I think I heard something about her having powers similar to Gods or something like that. Dante on the other hand is nowhere near a God, tho.
I think that looks great. And I'm sure there are plenty of people here that would contribute to the community OT if you'd like, myself included. Some things can even be taken from the DMC3 HD OT or this one.
Dante's potential isn't really fully realized though. In both DMC4 and DMC2, he's just kind of playing along. And he does defeat demon "gods", more or less. I haven't dug into Bayo2 yet either, regrettably, so I can't really make an educated guess on what Bayo ' s current power level is.
I suspect that Screw Attack will forget a lot of Dante's abilities like Quicksilver. He has so much from game to game, they'll probably stick to DMC4.
Nah Screwattack do their research. This is not even that hard because it's just like 6 games total and two anime series plus a manga. This is way easier than digging through decades worth of comic book material.
It's a matter of interpretation and how they feel the powers interact with each other. It also boils down to how game play mechanics are interpreted though they usually stray clear of that.
It's a matter of interpretation and how they feel the powers interact with each other. It also boils down to how game play mechanics are interpreted though they usually stray clear of that.
Hopefully they do. Technically, Quicksilver deactivates other slow time on activation (not to mention cancelability and I frames) if they use DMC3 logic.
I'm still confused about that Dante vs Ragna one minute melee. Are those the same people?
Son Of Sparda
Member
Guys make sure you take part in this official SEGA survey and ask for Bayonetta.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1191961
But doesn't that make it even harder for them to measure his true powers, forcing them to only see his actual achievements and not the potential that he might have? I mean you don't know how much power he actually has so it would turn into a guessing game if they try to consider his potential.
Also, isn't stuff like Quicksilver a one time only deal? I mean he gets it in 3 but then it's nowhere to be seen in any other games in the series so should it really be counted? Especially when you consider that even in part 3 he doesn't even use it as a power in the story and is just a gameplay thing.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1191961
But doesn't that make it even harder for them to measure his true powers, forcing them to only see his actual achievements and not the potential that he might have? I mean you don't know how much power he actually has so it would turn into a guessing game if they try to consider his potential.
Also, isn't stuff like Quicksilver a one time only deal? I mean he gets it in 3 but then it's nowhere to be seen in any other games in the series so should it really be counted? Especially when you consider that even in part 3 he doesn't even use it as a power in the story and is just a gameplay thing.
One minute Melee is just a random animated fight with 0 research. It's essentially a coin flip on who wins. They had Vergil vs Sephiroth and Vergil won that.
Death Battle is the one with research done completely. It's a full 30 minute video versus the one minute Melee which is a minute.
Dante did use Quicksilver in a cutscene, he froze time right as rocks were about to hit him after getting QS. Just because he doesn't use it again doesn't mean he can't use it again.
Witch time is kinda sketchy as well considering that you don't even have it in NSIC mode and you require either an item or perfect dodge attack to use it. How do you show that in an actual death battle? That's one of those game play vs story thing. If Bayonetta can use perfectly timed dodges to slow time indefinitely then what's stopping Dante from perfectly timing all attacks with RG and then doing a Royal Release for an OTK? In game play he can do that even when slowed down.
Death Battle is the one with research done completely. It's a full 30 minute video versus the one minute Melee which is a minute.
Dante did use Quicksilver in a cutscene, he froze time right as rocks were about to hit him after getting QS. Just because he doesn't use it again doesn't mean he can't use it again.
Witch time is kinda sketchy as well considering that you don't even have it in NSIC mode and you require either an item or perfect dodge attack to use it. How do you show that in an actual death battle? That's one of those game play vs story thing. If Bayonetta can use perfectly timed dodges to slow time indefinitely then what's stopping Dante from perfectly timing all attacks with RG and then doing a Royal Release for an OTK? In game play he can do that even when slowed down.
Son Of Sparda
Member
That cutscene was a given, tho. I mean how else would they let you know what kind of power you just acquired? But even if we agree that canon-wise Dante has this power throughout the DMC3 it still doesn't necessarily mean that he keeps it throughout the series.
Look at DMC4 for example, if Dante still has QS then why does he need the Key of Cronus to slow down time? I know they couldn't map a button for that style but it still messes up the canon.
Regarding Witch Time, even if you can't use it in higher difficulties, Bayo still uses it in story segments. Like, you can't activate it yourself but when you get to certain phases of bosses or some platforming sections, Bayo still activates it for story purposes. So you can't really take that out of equation.
I honestly don't know how they want to handle the RG situation so can't really answer that. I just think it would be more fair if they don't include stuff like QS or Doppelganger in the battle.
Look at DMC4 for example, if Dante still has QS then why does he need the Key of Cronus to slow down time? I know they couldn't map a button for that style but it still messes up the canon.
Regarding Witch Time, even if you can't use it in higher difficulties, Bayo still uses it in story segments. Like, you can't activate it yourself but when you get to certain phases of bosses or some platforming sections, Bayo still activates it for story purposes. So you can't really take that out of equation.
I honestly don't know how they want to handle the RG situation so can't really answer that. I just think it would be more fair if they don't include stuff like QS or Doppelganger in the battle.
AgentLampshade
Member
I think Dante still uses Quicksilver in DMC4 cutscenes. It's the only way he can escape some of the attacks at the last moment (like the Savior grabbing him and ending up on top of the hand).
Son Of Sparda
Member
Or activates DT and moves out of the way quickly. We don't see what he does so we can't say for sure.
Son Of Sparda
Member
IF. That's a big if, tho. And personally I don't see that being the case. They need to make something fresh with DMC5 so using older styles really isn't a good idea.
True, but Bayo isn't Geryon. Witch Time is only one of many powers that Bayo wilds. You pointed out the fact that in NSIC we have to beat the game without Witch Time and we all know how powerful enemies are in that mode, yet Bayo has no problem kicking their asses.
Possibly.
Definitely don't agree either, though. I don't see a lot of fanart circulated here or in various community/series OTs. Going by the recent Resident Evil OT, I think we would see more activity from around the forum if we had a series OT. Many have forgotten about 4SE already, and not everyone plays or cares for DMC4/4SE either. It'll be a while until DMC5 is revealed or releases, and until then the community needs a shot in the arm. My hope is having an OT will spark some renewed enthusiasm board-wise and also provide more visibility for community projects like our #DMCFeedback project, and for future style tournaments and combo videos. It could increase participation and make them easier to organize as well.
I mean, this year is the 15th anniversary of the series, after all. There's no better time to do it than now.
That looks quite good. I'd say the DMC3 or DMC4 fonts are probably the best to use as they require less formatting, are recognizable and easily readable. Favor simplicity and readability over flash. Don't overthink it. Stick with one, and just be consistent with it.
And don't worry about having to write the OP on your own. If we collaborate on it it'll be done in no time. Like GuardianE said, there's a lot from previous OTs we can reference. I can make a google doc to share internally, that we can edit and comment on. What's most important is that the OP is welcoming and informative, but concise and easily readable.
And enemies are really powerful in DMD mode too... so?
Both Bayonetta and Dante are far above the content in their own games. That's not a good litmus test at all. I am just pointing out that Dante has tackled demons that could alter time and he came out on top without even having Quicksilver to even the odds. Now Bayonetta is most definitely more powerful than Geryon.. but not only is DMC3 Dante a lot more powerful than Geryon by the end of DMC3... but Dante at the end of DMC2 is also far, far more powerful than Geryon.
Now this may be a stupid question, but can Dante not just royal guard everything?
Edit: Nvm , just saw the discussion about witch time/quicksilver.
It really boils down to how much of the game play mechanics they plan to interpret.
Bayonetta has a parry item too though not as ubiquitous as RG.
direct_quote
Member
Dante going to bop that Umbra Witch.
Son Of Sparda
Member
So, the point was that Bayonetta without the Witch Time is still a force to reckon with.
True, but as I said before Bayo isn't just "another demon". I guess we just have to wait and see how they decide to do this. Just keep in mind that from what we have seen of her, Bayo isn't like anything that Dante has faced before so you can't really say that "because Dante is stronger than the demon X then he is definitely stronger than Bayo."
I completely agree with you on this. In fact, I think we could/should have done this a lot sooner.
Dante hasn't fought someone like Bayonetta BUT Bayonetta hasn't fought someone like Dante either.
And I didn't say that just because Dante beat Geryon he can beat Bayonetta. I was saying that Witch time isn't the determining factor in who wins that fight. It comes down to toolset, strength, speed, technique, experience, durability and stamina. I feel that Dante has the edge in almost of those areas.
https://youtu.be/HTRUol7n_QY
The Dante Deathbattle preview. Lots of DMC3 footage in there even some manga clips for the back story. They listed Nevan as part of his arsenal (of course his entire repertoire didn't fit on screen) so the toolset of DMC3 is certainly being considered.
They are even letting Dante use Yamato LMAO! No mention of the Sparda transformation or sword though which was what he used to beat his greatest foe Mundus.
The preview isn't complete, full one will be in the episode. They still have to go over his abilities and styles.
And I didn't say that just because Dante beat Geryon he can beat Bayonetta. I was saying that Witch time isn't the determining factor in who wins that fight. It comes down to toolset, strength, speed, technique, experience, durability and stamina. I feel that Dante has the edge in almost of those areas.
https://youtu.be/HTRUol7n_QY
The Dante Deathbattle preview. Lots of DMC3 footage in there even some manga clips for the back story. They listed Nevan as part of his arsenal (of course his entire repertoire didn't fit on screen) so the toolset of DMC3 is certainly being considered.
They are even letting Dante use Yamato LMAO! No mention of the Sparda transformation or sword though which was what he used to beat his greatest foe Mundus.
The preview isn't complete, full one will be in the episode. They still have to go over his abilities and styles.
Son Of Sparda
Member
It just occur to me, but will the battle have spoilers from Bayo2?
That Dude John
Member
There's always the chance of that if they want to use a moment/fight as an example of strength or speed. Wouldn't be surprised if they mention the end of the first game.
These things usually have spoilers, that's the nature of the research.
So they are probably going to bring up final bosses and stuff. I know when they did their Gutts vs Nightmare video they spoiled a major plot in the Berserk story.
god i wish i could find the effects used for the basic swings on swords so i could complete this
Alastor looks pretty cool , didnt realise it(or its skin/texture) could be modded in.
I too have also decided to order the 1342 ArtBook. It'll be great to have the art in physical form.
Bayonettas probably gonna win that.
Son Of Sparda
Member
Ugh, then I at least hope they don't spoil too many important things from Bayo 2.
yeah, model editing/importing kinda exists for dmc4se- it's not really 'complete' because the specular map/normals don't port over correctly or something but yeah
this one was actually meant for dante but i just jammed the .mod onto sparda's thing because why not. there's still some bone rigging issues w/ it being used for sparda's attacks but eh
GoldenCrow
Member
Does anyone have any tips at getting good with the DMC series?
For some reason the combat system at a deeper level has never clicked with me even though I can see the depth, it just seems to elude me when I try things. I haven't found the games hard, but unlike similar games such as Viewtiful Joe and Bayonetta I can't tap into the depth properly. This ultimately stops me from wanting to tackle the harder difficulty levels or bloody palace even though I enjoy the games a lot.
Vergil, how on earth do I get good style ranks with him? It often seems he is massively overpowered and can't create anything before he destroys everything. I don't really understand how many of his mechanics actually function either.
For some reason the combat system at a deeper level has never clicked with me even though I can see the depth, it just seems to elude me when I try things. I haven't found the games hard, but unlike similar games such as Viewtiful Joe and Bayonetta I can't tap into the depth properly. This ultimately stops me from wanting to tackle the harder difficulty levels or bloody palace even though I enjoy the games a lot.
Vergil, how on earth do I get good style ranks with him? It often seems he is massively overpowered and can't create anything before he destroys everything. I don't really understand how many of his mechanics actually function either.
The basic way to get good at DMC is to follow these few rule of thumbs:
*Never get hit. You lose your rank when you get hit so your main priority in learning the game is the same as any other action game... learn to dodge properly. With most characters the standard is through rolling (R1+Right/Left+X) or jumping out through the use of invincibility frames BUT Vergil has a teleport that does the same thing and keeps you close to the action. When you are about to get hit, just hit O and you will teleport through an attack.
*Variate your attack patterns. You will not get high style ranks spamming the same moves so you need to variate your moves. Vergil doesn't have a lot of moves like Dante so you need to squeeze the maximum out of every move. This means that you need to be swapping weapons a lot to switch up moves and using the alternate combos (the Combo I, Combo II, the pause combos basically) more often.
*Go to the air. You get more moves in the air and more importantly you are safer from enemies on the ground which allows you to go ham. Combining air moves with ground moves is how you get the most out of your style rank because you use all types of the moves.
*Figure out how to link various moves together. With Vergil this is easier than ever due to the teleport cancel ability. An obvious example is you do a regular ground combo ending in a Stinger, after the Stinger the enemy is knocked back so you are out of range to do a follow up ground combo. However, you can teleport to continue your combo... you can also cancel the Stinger into Million Stab by holding the input then go into another move before the final attack, you can also switch weapon and follow the knocked back enemy with a Rapid Slash.
*Learning the various cancels in the game. This is where things get really complex. A lot of moves can be canceled mid animation or their recoveries cancelled which allows you to attack faster and combo more efficiently. Vergil again has an easy cancel in his teleport. You can do do launcher into Yamato Air Combo II (Triangle, Triangle, pause triangle in the air) teleport switch to Beowulf R1 + Forward + / (Lunar Phase), teleport cancel the last hit to negate the knockdown hit then switch weapon again back to Yamato or Force Edge to continue the combo.
You can also replace teleport cancel by using enemy step (cancel used by other characters) by just jumping on the enemy body while in the air. This cancels the recovery of many of the aerial attacks. Experiment with this.
If you feel that your combos are "ending" and you are unable to continue them then you need to figure out how to continue them. This game is built upon never ending combos due to clever use of game play mechanics.
*Never get hit. You lose your rank when you get hit so your main priority in learning the game is the same as any other action game... learn to dodge properly. With most characters the standard is through rolling (R1+Right/Left+X) or jumping out through the use of invincibility frames BUT Vergil has a teleport that does the same thing and keeps you close to the action. When you are about to get hit, just hit O and you will teleport through an attack.
*Variate your attack patterns. You will not get high style ranks spamming the same moves so you need to variate your moves. Vergil doesn't have a lot of moves like Dante so you need to squeeze the maximum out of every move. This means that you need to be swapping weapons a lot to switch up moves and using the alternate combos (the Combo I, Combo II, the pause combos basically) more often.
*Go to the air. You get more moves in the air and more importantly you are safer from enemies on the ground which allows you to go ham. Combining air moves with ground moves is how you get the most out of your style rank because you use all types of the moves.
*Figure out how to link various moves together. With Vergil this is easier than ever due to the teleport cancel ability. An obvious example is you do a regular ground combo ending in a Stinger, after the Stinger the enemy is knocked back so you are out of range to do a follow up ground combo. However, you can teleport to continue your combo... you can also cancel the Stinger into Million Stab by holding the input then go into another move before the final attack, you can also switch weapon and follow the knocked back enemy with a Rapid Slash.
*Learning the various cancels in the game. This is where things get really complex. A lot of moves can be canceled mid animation or their recoveries cancelled which allows you to attack faster and combo more efficiently. Vergil again has an easy cancel in his teleport. You can do do launcher into Yamato Air Combo II (Triangle, Triangle, pause triangle in the air) teleport switch to Beowulf R1 + Forward + / (Lunar Phase), teleport cancel the last hit to negate the knockdown hit then switch weapon again back to Yamato or Force Edge to continue the combo.
You can also replace teleport cancel by using enemy step (cancel used by other characters) by just jumping on the enemy body while in the air. This cancels the recovery of many of the aerial attacks. Experiment with this.
If you feel that your combos are "ending" and you are unable to continue them then you need to figure out how to continue them. This game is built upon never ending combos due to clever use of game play mechanics.
GoldenCrow
Member
Thanks for that Dahbomb. I have jump cancels and devil trigger invincibility frames down. Need to get to grips with certain enemy movesets so I can have more fun with them and leave things to the last moment, I definitely need to practice more with Dantes styles and mix them into the flow.
I believe that part of it, just like with fighting games, is muscle memory. Performing the same types of tricks and combination of presses with perfect timing so that you can do them on command given a particular scenario. You might start falling into the same rhythm and flowcharting your style, but you'll at least have certain series of attacks at your disposal when you need to. If you watch Donguri's Dante on the fly, he often goes through a set pattern of certain attacks and movement options, but then adapts given a particular setup or boss he's fighting. So practicing something you want to implement into your game over and over again can be the key to expanding your game.
If you haven't already, I'd check out the tutorial videos listed in the OP. Chaser's Nero and Dante tutorials, as well as the new Vergil tutorial (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UF16RaBq9V4), are helpful in giving you a slice of their potential.
Vergil has pretty much limitless possibilities with his trick teleport canceling. For Vergil specifically, he has certain combos that specifically do not kill until the final hit, like Dante's Crazy Combos in DMC3. You can utilize these if you're really struggling with Vergil's damage output and getting S ranks. It's actually harder to get high style with Vergil on the lower difficulties. You may want to just jump to something higher if you want to more freely play.
If you haven't already, I'd check out the tutorial videos listed in the OP. Chaser's Nero and Dante tutorials, as well as the new Vergil tutorial (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UF16RaBq9V4), are helpful in giving you a slice of their potential.
Vergil has pretty much limitless possibilities with his trick teleport canceling. For Vergil specifically, he has certain combos that specifically do not kill until the final hit, like Dante's Crazy Combos in DMC3. You can utilize these if you're really struggling with Vergil's damage output and getting S ranks. It's actually harder to get high style with Vergil on the lower difficulties. You may want to just jump to something higher if you want to more freely play.
AgentLampshade
Member
Alright folks, the writing for the Community Thread is ready to start. Sections include:
What is DMC? - A general run-down of the series. Genre, platforms available, basic lore info, other mediums (manga, anime) etc.
The Games - A more detailed run-through of the games in the series. What's changed in each iteration, new playable characters, story set up etc.
Basic Tutorials - A simple guide on how to effectively use each characters unique skillset and all-round advice for beginners.
Advanced tutorials and high level play - An in-depth look at the complex crazy stuff the high-level players do. Video tutorials are probably a good way of showing this instead of a wall of text. The high level gameplay is basically a few links to some of the most insane stuff out there to show people just how deep the games can be.
The reboot - The reboots story and premise can be mentioned above, but because of the vastly different mechanics, I think it'd be better for it to have it's own section here.
I also want to reserve the first post for GAF tournaments if people are interested. Problem is, someone else would have to organize them because I've no earthly idea where to even begin.
So what do you think? Any other sections to include? Any volunteers to write out a section? Also taking title suggestions.
What is DMC? - A general run-down of the series. Genre, platforms available, basic lore info, other mediums (manga, anime) etc.
The Games - A more detailed run-through of the games in the series. What's changed in each iteration, new playable characters, story set up etc.
Basic Tutorials - A simple guide on how to effectively use each characters unique skillset and all-round advice for beginners.
Advanced tutorials and high level play - An in-depth look at the complex crazy stuff the high-level players do. Video tutorials are probably a good way of showing this instead of a wall of text. The high level gameplay is basically a few links to some of the most insane stuff out there to show people just how deep the games can be.
The reboot - The reboots story and premise can be mentioned above, but because of the vastly different mechanics, I think it'd be better for it to have it's own section here.
I also want to reserve the first post for GAF tournaments if people are interested. Problem is, someone else would have to organize them because I've no earthly idea where to even begin.
So what do you think? Any other sections to include? Any volunteers to write out a section? Also taking title suggestions.
I'd be happy to help write any of the sections or with general editing. Except for the reboot. Maybe Basics tutorial?
I think that any section should be open to revision for others to add their two cents.
Maybe a section devoted to sales and performance? Or maybe a FAQ section? Resource list? I definitely think it'd be worthwhile to add our DMC5 wishlist in there too.
I think that any section should be open to revision for others to add their two cents.
Maybe a section devoted to sales and performance? Or maybe a FAQ section? Resource list? I definitely think it'd be worthwhile to add our DMC5 wishlist in there too.
http://s1.zetaboards.com/InfernalWorks/topic/5962781/1/
this dude tomas made his own tool for dmc4se model imports and released a nelo angelo for vergil
this dude tomas made his own tool for dmc4se model imports and released a nelo angelo for vergil
http://s1.zetaboards.com/InfernalWorks/topic/5962781/1/
this dude tomas made his own tool for dmc4se model imports and released a nelo angelo for vergil
Looks pretty dope even though its taken straight from 3SE.I wonder what it looks like in motion.
Also really pleased with the 3142 Artbook, the interviews are full of some cool info.
