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Devil May Cry 4 Special Edition |OT| Two girls, one motivated Vergil

S

Sesha

Member
If DMC5 is developed mainly with the upgraded console in mind, they'll just compromise some other feature in order to keep it at 60. I don't think there's any need to worry about that specifically.

I'm more worried if whether or not I'll be able to run it on my laptop when it's finally out. It runs SF5 fine and will do the same for DS3. I hope my girl will be able to handle it.

TreIII said:
Point, but I think it says a lot when even his DMC4 novelization had some interesting details that I wished could've been better fleshed out in game (like Nero having the brief heart to heart with "Vergil" before his "I NEED MORE POWAH" moment and the like), but didn't have the time to do so because 4 was rushed.

Plus, if Bayonetta 2 has showcased anything, he can definitely take things to crazy, yet interesting lengths, if he's allowed.
And if it helps, the whole Aesir -> Loki/Loptr thing just gave me a whole bunch of Mundus vibes, right down to Aesir himself being the true "creator god" of the Bayo-verse. Now, if only that kind of character dynamic could be realized in a character who isn't as annoying as Loki was...
Click to expand...

I actually hated that. I'm glad it wasn't in the full game.

As for Bayo 2, I thought it worked ok for that game, but I really don't want Mundus to turn out to be some kind of (Bayo 2 spoilers)
Aesir or Fortinbras
-type character.
 
T

TreIII

Member
Sesha said:
I actually hated that. I'm glad it wasn't in the full game.

As for Bayo 2, I thought it worked ok for that game, but I really don't want Mundus to turn out to be some kind of (Bayo 2 spoilers)
Aesir or Fortinbras
-type character.
Click to expand...

Granted, it wasn't the best told moment (and I would hope an editor would clean it up to make it flow better in game). But I think between that and how in the book, Dante clearly stated that "Vergil had probably rolled through Fortuna before", it would have done plenty to curtail all the speculation on Nero's parentage before it even got started. (And would have just replaced them with MORE, different questions, but I digress!)

Anyway, I'd actually consider
either of those two
to be an upgrade over what we got previously from Mundus. Let's be honest, the guy didn't really have much character besides being a) Sparda and his fam's eternal enemy and b) being a bastard/bad boss who likes screwing with his own underlings. At least
Fortinbras
actually had a bit of charisma going for him.
 
R

RazMaTaz

Banned
If what is said is true about Deep Down being released on PS4K, then it makes me wonder...

Even though Panta Rei is in Capcoms hands, it still doesnt mean Devil May Cry will be developed using it. In order to retain that performance and cost, DMC could still very well be made using the Unreal Engine 4.0 that Capcom is utilising at present.

IF, and its a big IF, they use Panta Rei for DMC5, then I am sure Capcom will retain a way to keep the performance and features balanced at least. This could be simply degrading the textures to allow more room for performance on PS4, or it could run a variable framerate much like God Of War 3 on the lesser PS4 and run consistant 60FPS on PS4K.

This PS4K should just be modular, so it avoids upgrading a console another 2 years from now when Nvidia and AMD introduce their new iteration of cards.
 
T

TreIII

Member
RazMaTaz said:
If what is said is true about Deep Down being released on PS4K, then it makes me wonder...

Even though Panta Rei is in Capcoms hands, it still doesnt mean Devil May Cry will be developed using it. In order to retain that performance and cost, DMC could still very well be made using the Unreal Engine 4.0 that Capcom is utilising at present.

IF, and its a big IF, they use Panta Rei for DMC5, then I am sure Capcom will retain a way to keep the performance and features balanced at least. This could be simply degrading the textures to allow more room for performance on PS4, or it could run a variable framerate much like God Of War 3 on the lesser PS4 and run consistant 60FPS on PS4K.

This PS4K should just be modular, so it avoids upgrading a console another 2 years from now when Nvidia and AMD introduce their new iteration of cards.
Click to expand...

Either are possibilities. But at this point, I wonder if Itsuno's team would be fine working with MT Framework for at least one more game, to shave off costs and speed up development time. It'd help that they're already be familiar with the engine and have assets from DMC4/4SE ready to go, if necessary.

If that was case, whatever else the PS4/4.5 could offer on top would just mean that they could cut loose with adding extra effects and what-not, and less on having to create everything from scratch.
 
S

Sesha

Member
TreIII said:
Anyway, I'd actually consider
either of those two
to be an upgrade over what we got previously from Mundus. Let's be honest, the guy didn't really have much character besides being a) Sparda and his fam's eternal enemy and b) being a bastard/bad boss who likes screwing with his own underlings. At least
Fortinbras
actually had a bit of charisma going for him.
Click to expand...

Oh, both are definitely better than Mundus. I liked
Fortinbras
. I just don't want to see that kind of development for Mundus. They've been moving away from DMC1's original canon from the start. I'd rather they write him off for good and start anew. New threats, new stories.
If they really want to bring Mundus back and pull a
Aesir or Fortinbras
, they could do it for DMC: The Next Generation featuring Nero and Dante's daughter that they totally definitely should do. Keep the theme of children cleaning up their parents' messes going.

direct_quote said:
Could see DMC5 being PS4.5 exclusive with that Sony money.. Please don't do that Capcom...
Click to expand...

There's no way that will happen. PS4 will have at least 50m owners by the time DMC5 drops. There's no way Capcom would agree to that unless Sony footed the majority of the bill. But even Sony wouldn't do that. They want people to continue to buy PS4s and software for it.
 
B

BadWolf

Member
direct_quote said:
Well that sucks.
Click to expand...

On the basic level yeah, it's a huge loss for Capcom (and friggin DMC) and a major get for SNK. We know that SNK has been head hunting their employees from the old days but this is the first mention of a major Capcom employee moving over.

What's worrying though is that Neo-G has been at Capcom for a very long time (over 20 years) and has a pretty specific area of expertise, I really hope him leaving doesn't mean that Capcom is less likely to be making those kinds of games in the future.
 
S

Sesha

Member
Lol, Capcom:

"In terms of in-house development, I thought cultivating personnel would take time and be very risky, but I now understand that the internal know-how already exists and I recognize the merits of being able to exert control. Rather than simply increasing the number of personnel, the issue going forward will be the degree to which Capcom is able to retain high-quality personnel." - page 34
 
D

direct_quote

Member
Sesha said:
Lol, Capcom:

"In terms of in-house development, I thought cultivating personnel would take time and be very risky, but I now understand that the internal know-how already exists and I recognize the merits of being able to exert control. Rather than simply increasing the number of personnel, the issue going forward will be the degree to which Capcom is able to retain high-quality personnel." - page 34
Click to expand...
While it's sad that Capcom has lost major talent, at some point someone has to cultivate new action game directors and battle designers.. Hopefully Itsuno can really prove his worth and cultivate a good work environment to get DMC5 to be the best action game out there.
 
S

Sesha

Member
direct_quote said:
While it's sad that Capcom has lost major talent, at some point someone has to cultivate new action game directors and battle designers.. Hopefully Itsuno can really prove his worth and cultivate a good work environment to get DMC5 to be the best action game out there.
Click to expand...

The problem is that they need major talent to train the new guys, which is why I brought out that quote. So far this is mainly affects their fighting game stuff outside of Street Fighter, but it's not a good look for a company busy with hiring to lose someone like Neo_G.

At least this means less for DMC than I originally thought. I've been following Neo_G and obsessing about his work for so long I forgot he was only a planner on DMC4.
 
S

Seyavesh

Member
yeah, from what i understand neo_g was more of a DMC fan than someone who is central to DMC's combat design and was responsible for the super broken sparda bros in vanilla and ultimate mvc3

the more worrying thing is that denial from JYB during some anime con panel about DMC5 being in development- specifically that the mocap pic with him and reuben wasn't for dmc5
 
S

Sesha

Member
That was Dan Southworth. He just said that the mo-cap wasn't for DMC5. He said it didn't disqualify DMC5 from happening.

I don't think DMC5 has been very long in development. There was the gameblog.fr comment about DMC5 only having been in development for a few months, and Itsuno's twitter post in January. Since Verendus told us over a year ago that DMC5 was happening, my hypothesis is that the game's been in pre-production/planning stages for a while and only recently entered full development.

Keep in mind. If they want to release a new DMC game at all during this gen, it has to be in development by now. Remember the integrated report that said new DMC titles were planned by March 31st, 2018. The only way for DMC5 to make it by that date is for it to be in development right now. While Capcom could push the game until 2019 or later, they'll be missing out on this gen entirely.
Itsuno is working on something, and I can't see any way for it to be anything else but DMC5.
 
G

GuardianE

Santa May Claus
As painful as it is to see neo _g go, I'm still excited by the prospect of the new blood and their motivations. As long as they're driven and excited.

The fact that Neo_g was a giant DMC fanboy was a huge plus. There needs to be more advocates within the development side for the series. I hope there are.
 
S

Sesha

Member
I'm curious if the planners that worked on DMC4SE are working on DMC5. All three of them were new to the series (as planners, at least). Junya Kumabe will probably be there. He was prominent during DMC4SE's promotion, and also worked on Dragon's Dogma. It seems like he's become one of Itsuno's guys.
 
S

Son Of Sparda

Member
Shit, Neo_G is a huge loss for Capcom not only for their fighting side.

First Greg and now Neo_G. we lost two of the big DMC supporters withing Capcom in a short span of time :(
 
S

Sesha

Member
Plot of DMC5: Dante is on a quest from Lady to figure out how every demon suddenly died and Hell became completely desolate. Comes across Kratos carrying hundreds of Devil Arms. During the ending, a voice with a British accent sounds out: "How can this be a party without any ladies?" Bam, Bayonetta arrives.

Title drop: Gods, Devils and Witches: God of War x DMC x Bayonetta.

A Sony, Capcom and Sega Collaboration.
 
R

RazMaTaz

Banned
This is what concerns me greatly. God Of War 3 was a technical marvel, and people during then were expecting a much bigger scale Devil May Cry game (DMC4), but that didnt happen. DMC4 felt short. If God Of War 4 ends up setting another technical marvel standard, I sincerely hope Capcom takes inspiration from it.

I really hope Capcom brings their A game with DMC5. Take inspiration from Bayonetta, DmC, and God Of war, take the best elements of DMC4,3 and 1, and add a Bloodborne style environment, and whip out something incredible.
 
S

Sesha

Member
RazMaTaz said:
This is what concerns me greatly. God Of War 3 was a technical marvel, and people during then were expecting a much bigger scale Devil May Cry game (DMC4), but that didnt happen. DMC4 felt short. If God Of War 4 ends up setting another technical marvel standard, I sincerely hope Capcom takes inspiration from it.

I really hope Capcom brings their A game with DMC5. Take inspiration from Bayonetta, DmC, and God Of war, take the best elements of DMC4,3 and 1, and add a Bloodborne style environment, and whip out something incredible.
Click to expand...

Keep in mind, God of War 3 came out two years later on a single platform, and is a first party title meaning SSM had much better access to technical knowledge of how the Cell prosessor worked. And DMC4 was impressive on a technical level when it came out, despite setbacks like being multiplat. It was one of the better-looking titles when it released, ran at a mostly stable 60 fps, and had impressive VFX.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
30 FPS first party exclusive title vs 60 FPS 3rd party multiplatform title.

Come on son.

They have to get the level design, art design and game play down first. And also not have nonsensical writing.
 
S

Son Of Sparda

Member
Dahbomb said:
30 FPS first party exclusive title vs 60 FPS 3rd party multiplatform title.

Come on son.

They have to get the level design, art design and game play down first. And also not have nonsensical writing.
Click to expand...

I agree, though I wanted to point out that GoW isn't 30fps. I *think* the FPS in GoW titles is uncapped and mostly frequents between 40s and 50s.
 
S

Sesha

Member
GoW3 was 60 fps only when nothing was going on. Besides that it varied wildly between 30s to low 50s.

As for DMC5, just by being DMC4.5 and avoiding the heavy asset reuse and the clunky puzzles and platforming it'll get 8/10s from most outlets. But that's not enough. They need to bring their SSS game.
 
D

direct_quote

Member
GOW3 also had a fixed camera, and DMC4 had a heavily restricted camera in areas to maintain 60 fps, with heavy slowdown in the forest areas. I think it is a hard feat to get stable 60 fps with a free roam camera... Most platinum games had highly variable frame rates last gen with free roam cameras.. And blocky looking areas in MGR..

That's why I wouldn't be surprised if DMC5 was 30fps on vanilla PS4. And 60 fps on 4k PS4.
 
G

GuardianE

Santa May Claus
I'd be incredibly surprised if they opted for a gimped PS4 version performance wise, unless Sony is footing the bill. Outcry over 30fps DmC did not go unheard. 60fps was all over the marketing material for DmCDE and DMC4SE.

Theyll scale it down, less impressive textures and lighting, lower the res, but that I dont think they're touching that fps.
 
S

Sesha

Member
I don't believe DMC5 will be 30fps. That risks creating a narrative that DMC5 is a downgrade compared to its predecessors, which will work against it. I don't think Capcom wants to risk that. I believe it will be graphically scaled down like GuardianE says. I don't even believe the PS4K version will be at 4K resolution.

Either way, I'm not too worried. I'm more worried about stuff like whether the good features of DmC will be added. I'm not confident the team is aware of some of those things. Not to mention, Capcom might do the same they did with DmC, which is poo-poo certain features because they're worried it might turn off consumers.
 
S

Sesha

Member
Huh, they used early trailer footage for DMC4, from back when Gilgamesh's lighting effects resembled Beowulf's and looked way cooler than what we ended up with.

Dahbomb said:
And thus begins the hype campaign for E3 DMC5...
Click to expand...

Guess we should dig up the DMC-GAF hype chariot macro again.
 
S

Son Of Sparda

Member
darkslayer101 said:
remember when DMC artbook was releasing a day before TGS2015 and we all prepped the hype chariot....
Click to expand...

I remember the Suda 51 pic that we had at the front of it.... LOL!

P.S: Man, speaking of that pic, my avatar was way cooler back then. I had to change it due to the P5 bet and then somehow I lost it :(
 
C

CrimsonCrescendo

Banned
Replaying Devil May Cry 2 and I'm consistently amazed at how bad it is. The knockback you give enemies makes it nigh impossible to combo them, the guns are so overpowered it's not funny, the enemies are utter shit and are boring to fight (there being more enemies in this game is not a plus because of this), the AI flat out doesn't work at times, all difficulty has been stripped from it, the levels are absurdly spacious making the knockback even worse when you get to the city levels, any sense of speed in the combat has been taken out, some of the attack animations are way too drawn out, enemies like the infested tank and helicopter fucking exist, weapon variety is gone, moveset variety is gone, the camera is worse, the platforming is somehow even worse than DMC 1's, the level aesthetics are boring as hell, the list goes on and on. It fails on every single goddamn level as a sequel to Devil May Cry. I'm amazed this game didn't kill the franchise. It makes me appreciate how amazing Devil May Cry 3 was even more considering it was following this mess up.


On another note: Are we going to set up a Official Thread?
 
S

Sesha

Member
CrimsonCrescendo said:
Replaying Devil May Cry 2 and I'm consistently amazed at how bad it is. The knockback you give enemies makes it nigh impossible to combo them, the guns are so overpowered it's not funny, the enemies are utter shit and are boring to fight (there being more enemies in this game is not a plus because of this), the AI flat out doesn't work at times, all difficulty has been stripped from it, the levels are absurdly spacious making the knockback even worse when you get to the city levels, any sense of speed in the combat has been taken out, some of the attack animations are way too drawn out, enemies like the infested tank and helicopter fucking exist, weapon variety is gone, moveset variety is gone, the camera is worse, the platforming is somehow even worse than DMC 1's, the level aesthetics are boring as hell, the list goes on and on. It fails on every single goddamn level as a sequel to Devil May Cry. I'm amazed this game didn't kill the franchise. It makes me appreciate how amazing Devil May Cry 3 was even more considering it was following this mess up.

On another note: Are we going to set up a Official Thread?
Click to expand...

B-b-but DMC2 had prototype versions of Fireworks, Rainstorm and Twosome Time, as well as Wall Hike and Flip Escape, meaning DMC3 owes its quality entirely to DMC2 because Itsuno had to have done DMC2 first and arghleblarglalglgegiejgiuegiehgi. *coughs*
Sorry, I don't know what came over me.

We are, but I assume people are busy, so it's taking some time. I'm busy working on my thesis and a thousand other things. I may have to renege on writing for the OP because I'm not good with multitasking.
 
A

Akiller

Member
https://youtu.be/2DYAAYdWTXw

deb2119a2c.png
 
S

Sesha

Member
He does lots of different mo-cap work, though, including Uncharted 4.

At this point I can't get excited about all these maybe/maybe-nots anymore. I just want to hear something from Itsuno or Kobayashi, or see some mention in a financial report.
 
C

CrimsonCrescendo

Banned
It's amazing how well Devil May Cry 3 and 4's mocap has held up. It doesn't have the facial capture nuance of something like The Last of Us, but on the whole, considering one is a late gen PS2 title and the other is on the earlier side of a generation, they hold up pretty damn well. Props to Langdon's team.

It's also interesting when you hear just how integrated Rueben is into the character of Dante and the series with 3 and 4. He did the motion capture, he worked on the script, he worked on the translation of the script, he was an unofficial producer, and he served as somewhat of a casting director.

Sesha said:
We are, but I assume people are busy, so it's taking some time. I'm busy working on my thesis and a thousand other things. I may have to renege on writing for the OP because I'm not good with multitasking.
Click to expand...

Completely understandable.
 
S

Sesha

Member
DMC3 deserves to be known as a revolutionary title for its use of mo-cap alone. And yeah, Reuben is almost as integral to DMC as Itsuno is at this point. Though I think his range is weak, which might limit future portrayals of the character, he's undeniably central in having defined the character as we know today.

Edit: I just re-read a previous interview with Itsuno, and I came across this part, which stuck out to me:

"It was a three year project working on DmC: Devil May Cry with Ninja Theory, and I was going back and forth to Cambridge working on it with them. And I got a lot of great memories, I'm still really great friends with those guys, whenever I see them I'm like 'give me a hug, bro', and even though it was a divisive game, and that was the reaction from fans, obviously -- I still feel it's a well respected game. I don't like thinking of it as this separate other thing from the rest of the other games. My work on that game definitely influenced DMC4SE."
Click to expand...

The last part makes me happy to read. Like we did with the previous DMC feedback list, we need to let Itsuno know of the other good features from DmC that should be in future games. We covered some, but it's important to show that fans don't consider DmC a complete disaster, that there's always ways to innovate on the old formula to the overall benefit of the series.

The faster we get the OT going so we can have more people behind the feedback, the better.
 
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