Son Of Sparda
Member
It should be an interesting read.
Still in the early pages but thus far the shift from "mid-term to long-term perspective" and "increase stock of IPs" have caught my eyes.
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Devil May Cry 4 Special Edition |OT| Two girls, one motivated Vergil
- Thread starter Sigmaah
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Still in the early pages but thus far the shift from "mid-term to long-term perspective" and "increase stock of IPs" have caught my eyes.
From a cursory glance, seems like Capcom is doing better this year than they were last year.
They are still on the 2.5 year cycle for their IPs but that hasn't actually panned out all that well.
No big mention of DMC or its future. RIP. Even Sengoku Basara got way more coverage.
They are still on the 2.5 year cycle for their IPs but that hasn't actually panned out all that well.
No big mention of DMC or its future. RIP. Even Sengoku Basara got way more coverage.
Son Of Sparda
Member
Both DMC and Onimusha were mentioned in their history section though. Other stuff like Dino Crisis, Marvel Vs Capcom and Lost Planet didn't get any mention even though they were big at their times.
And last year (fiscal year 2015) was the worst year in the past decade for Capcom in regards to Net Sales. It's not surprising cause they didn't have anything.
And last year (fiscal year 2015) was the worst year in the past decade for Capcom in regards to Net Sales. It's not surprising cause they didn't have anything.
darkslayer101
Member
Regarding the dodge system, Maybe I am too used to the combat system of DMC and using shoulder button lock on and X seems natural to me. I feel like Trickster allows for single button dodge and that should suffice.
I do notice novice players having trouble switching style to trickster and then dodge, its like a gap in timing while i guess experienced players just switch quickly and dodge.
And about any DMC news, the real drought starts right now as capcom is too busy showing nothing for RE7 lol.
I do notice novice players having trouble switching style to trickster and then dodge, its like a gap in timing while i guess experienced players just switch quickly and dodge.
And about any DMC news, the real drought starts right now as capcom is too busy showing nothing for RE7 lol.
Son Of Sparda
Member
Well, I guess it's good to know that Capcom is only reluctant about celebrating 15th anniversary when it's for DMC series.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=217339374
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=217339374
Kaleinc
Banned
AgentLampshade
Member
I showed this off and they just said "that's cheating!"
CrimsonCrescendo
Banned
Lol, DMC 3 is handing my ass to me at the moment. I'm super rusty.
It's easy to forget after playing DMC 4/DmC for so long that DMC 1/3 had no issue laying the smack down on players if they didn't step up. They're punishing, but oh so satisfying when you get in to groove.
It's easy to forget after playing DMC 4/DmC for so long that DMC 1/3 had no issue laying the smack down on players if they didn't step up. They're punishing, but oh so satisfying when you get in to groove.
badcrumble
Member
Here's something I've sort of discussed here and there but I'd like to put forward as a question to the thread:
What are some ways that would be acceptable to you for DMC to become more accessible to newbies/a broader audience?
What are some ways that would be acceptable to you for DMC to become more accessible to newbies/a broader audience?
CrimsonCrescendo
Banned
I'm open to a lot of ideas as long as they give players options. Take Automatic Mode in DMC 4 for example. I know there has been disdain for it thrown around in the very thread, but it is a great way for new players to come to grips with the battle system. Even though Nero is the more casual player character, I think people forget that he is still rather involved. New players have to get used to the Rev mechanic (Active and Passive), The Devil Buster, Charging Blue Rose, Devil Trigger, Countering, and Pause Combos on top of the basic combat. New players can easily become overwhelmed, so taking some of the pressure off is a great idea.
Build off of ideas like that. Take ideas from Bayonetta too. Witch Time, at least in the first game, is technically a crutch. The game is designed to be able to be played without it on Infinite Climax. However, it is so fluidly integrated most people don't realize that. It's damn fun, allows players to become acclimated to the combat, allows less skilled players a window to attack enemies, and allows for people to get used to the combo system. That's why I said "technically". It's fully part of the game and most people will never do with out it, but high level players can basically disable it if they want on the highest difficulty.
Hell, even DmC had some good ideas. However, as with most things in DmC, the problem was in the execution. Take their version of parrying: Rather than having a Style dedicated to it with rather exact timing to it meaning most casuals never used it (I'll admit I had quite a bit of difficulty coming to grips with it even after all the time I spent playing DMC 4), they went with an active "parry by launching your own attack at the right moment". Good idea. The problem was that in DmC Vanilla, a dozen moves had ludicrous amounts of active frames and parry windows that it actively broke many of what were supposed to be difficult enemies (Edit: Funny enough, now that I think about it, that's exactly what they did with Nero, but it worked really well). Same with the auto-lock. Good idea and allows players who can't get a handle on hard lock an easier time. Problem? It was no where near as good as Bayonetta's auto lock and completely did away with hard lock meaning the whip mechanics didn't work as I wanted them to about 10% of the time, mostly when there were large groups of enemies.
As many have mentioned in here: Fix the dodge system. Again, look to Bayonetta or even DmC.
"Accessible" doesn't have to mean "Dumbed down" and hell, really doesn't have to affect series veterans at all (Automatic mode). It doesn't mean you can't have a sky high skill ceiling like Dante in DMC 4. Bayonetta is more "Accessible" but there is a massive difference between beginner combo spamming and High level gameplay.
darkslayer101
Member
TBH I don't think it needs to be more accessible when it already is. It only gets complicated with the learning curves and everything when one attempts crazy combos, other than that the bosses are pretty straightforward and the controls aren't complicated.
Only thing I can think of is the dodging system, which I think is already mitigated by switching to trickster, that way you only need to press one button. I remember my first time playing DMC3 and I always picked trickster so I can get the single button dash. That made it more accessible, at which point I learned the other maneuvers and soon was using all options in the repertoire.
*Dodging made more accessible.
*Style moves made more accessible (less switching involved if possible)
*Normal and Easy mode are easy enough for casuals but Hard mode available from start that is actually hard.
*More frequent checkpoints (in the checkpoint option, let players have non checkpoint system too if they want)
*Faster move acquisition
*Better tutorials, training modes etc.
*Have some indicator that allows for easy navigation. I don't exactly want way point navigation but something that makes it so people have an idea of where to go. Getting stuck in a DMC game is really lame.
*Scaling difficulty if you die a lot on easier modes.
Honestly they can do whatever they want for Easy/Normal as long as there's a hard mode available at start that is actually very hard.
badcrumble
Member
Yeah, I'd be down for more accessible dodging as well as packing more value into the dodge (passively activated stuff like Witch Time, Table Hopper, or DmC'a angel/devil dodge is a great way to add value).
I'm also not against offering easier difficulty levels for those who just want to play through the story, as long as the game is balanced around DMD and DMD remains brutally hard.
As I've said elsewhere, a larger number of smaller missions would be good too, IMO. DMC should be about moment to moment skill more than being an overall endurance test.
Also, though I think nothing should alter the controls/physics or damage values, I'd be down for slightly increased RPG-lite elements similar to what Bayonetta does with accessories.
Something I wouldn't be willing to compromise on, for example, would be an early-on "git gud" boss.
I'm also not against offering easier difficulty levels for those who just want to play through the story, as long as the game is balanced around DMD and DMD remains brutally hard.
As I've said elsewhere, a larger number of smaller missions would be good too, IMO. DMC should be about moment to moment skill more than being an overall endurance test.
Also, though I think nothing should alter the controls/physics or damage values, I'd be down for slightly increased RPG-lite elements similar to what Bayonetta does with accessories.
Something I wouldn't be willing to compromise on, for example, would be an early-on "git gud" boss.
-Maybe "Recommended" skill suggestions to new players in the shop
-Universal dodge
-Tweaked jumping for more directional control
-Allow in-game viewing of high score runthroughs from other players (similar to NG2's Ninja Cinema) while you're selecting missions
Otherwise, I feel like the games aren't really that hard for the casual player. The main issue is that it doesn't teach you how to play, and it's not something necessarily intuitive like Dark Souls.
badcrumble, you touched upon a "git gud" boss in the context of accessibility, and not only do I think this is important in general, it serves as a measure by which to teach the player about key mechanics that they may have otherwise been ignoring. Take, for example, DMC3 Cerberus, who forces the integration and combination of gun and sword play. Or MGR's Blade Wolf encounter, who is the first challenge where the game asks the player, "have you learned how to parry yet? It's kind of important."
Make the easy mode as easy and automated as people want, but Normal (Devil Hunter) should provide an adequate challenge with appropriate spikes that will force the player to learn. Otherwise, you're only doing a disservice to the player by holding their hand and narrowing their skill growth. This will in turn negatively affect their overall enjoyment. The average player isn't going to be proactive about looking up higher level mechanics. Instead, introduce them in a relatively punish free environment before a boss, and then test them during the boss.
Most people will play on Normal and will judge the game that way - and they're not wrong for doing so. That balance is critical.
-Universal dodge
-Tweaked jumping for more directional control
-Allow in-game viewing of high score runthroughs from other players (similar to NG2's Ninja Cinema) while you're selecting missions
Otherwise, I feel like the games aren't really that hard for the casual player. The main issue is that it doesn't teach you how to play, and it's not something necessarily intuitive like Dark Souls.
badcrumble, you touched upon a "git gud" boss in the context of accessibility, and not only do I think this is important in general, it serves as a measure by which to teach the player about key mechanics that they may have otherwise been ignoring. Take, for example, DMC3 Cerberus, who forces the integration and combination of gun and sword play. Or MGR's Blade Wolf encounter, who is the first challenge where the game asks the player, "have you learned how to parry yet? It's kind of important."
Make the easy mode as easy and automated as people want, but Normal (Devil Hunter) should provide an adequate challenge with appropriate spikes that will force the player to learn. Otherwise, you're only doing a disservice to the player by holding their hand and narrowing their skill growth. This will in turn negatively affect their overall enjoyment. The average player isn't going to be proactive about looking up higher level mechanics. Instead, introduce them in a relatively punish free environment before a boss, and then test them during the boss.
Most people will play on Normal and will judge the game that way - and they're not wrong for doing so. That balance is critical.
J_Macgrady
Member
Man you know how many issues that players have with these Japanese would be solved if they just had some god damn tutorials to teach players how to play their game lol.
Took me years before I even was aware of what dodge offset was because it's never mentioned in the game.
I would love a combo trials mode like the fighting games. It would help new and old players get familiar with the characters and their new moveset.
I don't want them to remove the style system completely, but they should incorporate more style moves into his core moveset like aerial rave, and twosome time.
That was what I was referring to. Some moves like Dodge, Aerial Rave, charged shots, parry and Twosome Time are too "core" to what DMC is now to be things that you need to be switching into and out of. Imagine having to switch to a style to access Dodge Offset in Bayonetta.. nah man nah.
I don't want any move/mechanic to be removed, I just want the easiest possible access to those moves/mechanics.
And yeah combo trials would be dope in a DMC game. It actually makes more sense in these games than a fighting game even. Most people learn combos in these games by either looking at the intro videos or in the case of DmC at the silhouette doing combos in the loading screen (another great feature).
I enjoy action games where I'm riding on the seat of my pants. To see if I can get better and kick some ass at the same time. Feels good.
These games kinda have to be hard, otherwise there wouldn't be much need to use the many mechanics of the game. It's a difficult balancing act, you want to get as many people playing and enjoying your game but you also don't want to compromise the vision, design and balance of the game.
Difficulty modes is in inelegant solution to this. A better method is probably dynamic difficult scaling like from Godhand.
Difficulty modes is in inelegant solution to this. A better method is probably dynamic difficult scaling like from Godhand.
badcrumble
Member
I suppose that's true. It's also good to have a real learning curve (new bosses/new enemies should teach the player specific lessons and skills).
I think the purpose of 'git gud' bosses should be to ensure basic competency with certain mechanics so you can be sure the player will have those skills going forward. In that sense, they shouldn't require the player to master *two* mechanics they haven't been tested on before - instead, they should be laser-focused on teaching one specific lesson.
First boss should be concentrated primarily on teaching the player to look for visual and audio cues that telegraph the enemy's attacks, I think.
The first boss should be hard and a decent enough wall for the player.
It just shouldn't be the top 3 hardest boss in the game. It should be hard enough where the player needs to perform basic evasion and offense at a decent level while utilizing some of the game's mechanics.
It just shouldn't be the top 3 hardest boss in the game. It should be hard enough where the player needs to perform basic evasion and offense at a decent level while utilizing some of the game's mechanics.
badcrumble
Member
Yeah, definitely agreed. I just think it's essential to test the player and make sure that each boss demands learning and improvement.
To me, an appropriate "git gud" boss isn't just a frustratingly difficult and unforgiving challenge. It means a boss where you need to play better by incorporating something that you've been ignoring or cleaning up obvious deficiencies. Something you can't clear just by mashing and luck, but rather forcing change within the player in order to beat.
badcrumble
Member
An example of (IMO) unacceptable 'casualization' is what Bayonetta 2 did with Umbran Climax - the whole game is balanced around it so that normal Wicked Weaves no longer do great damage (making skillful use of Dodge Offset no longer as useful), normal attacks don't even combo that well because even normal enemies can break out of your combos easily and basically at random, getting damaged no longer depletes your magic, and when you're *in* UC mode you basically perpetually juggle/stun everything onscreen while regenerating health - like DmC 1.0's Devil Trigger, it's TOO good. Bayo 2 got altered so the whole game is about building up magic to discharge on Umbran Climax; the original game's fairly solid gameplay loop of using normal moves and wicked weaves and proper evasion to build up magic for torture attacks that then grant you angel weapons is basically gone.
If DMC became something where you *need* to DT to win (and everything else is just about building up your meter) I'd be pretty unhappy about it.
If DMC became something where you *need* to DT to win (and everything else is just about building up your meter) I'd be pretty unhappy about it.
CrimsonCrescendo
Banned
Bayonetta 2 is an example of a sequel where the first game was so good that they worked way too much in its shadow. The core combat is basically the same (aka this is not a DMC 1 to 3 jump or even a 3 to 4 jump) with many of the weapons not being as fun as previous weapons and a lot of the new ideas actively detract from the experience including everything you mentioned plus aerial boss fights which look cool but play awfully, boss fights in general throwing way to much shit on the screen to the point where the camera zooms out to focus on other things and I can't tell what the hell is going on, certain enemies being 100% designed around being defeated with Witch Time, the difficulty was drastically reduced, the game became far too reliant on Umbran Climax for large enemies, and torture attacks being made mostly pointless. Bayonetta is, if not the best, damn near close to being one of the best action games of all time. Bayonetta 2, while still fun, isn't in my top 15.
I don't think DMC will ever be designed around Devil Trigger heavily. Only exception was stuff like end of DMC1/DmC where you had to actually attack with a Devil Trigger attack to finish the game.
I do think it's one area where the series can greatly expand or at least DT gauge as an extra resource that can be used sort of like how Vergil uses it for Summoned Swords.
I do think it's one area where the series can greatly expand or at least DT gauge as an extra resource that can be used sort of like how Vergil uses it for Summoned Swords.
badcrumble
Member
Definitely. As I've said elsewhere, I'd be into equippable DT modifiers (juggernaut, quicksilver, and doppelgänger for example). But also, to take DMC4 Dante for one, I'd be fine with the Disaster and RG gauges basically just being combined into the DT gauge (so Dante would have more options for building the gauge up and for using it on things). Obviously that'd require some rebalancing* but juggling three separate gauges is just clunky IMO. And between Just Release and the final Pandora move, you'd basically have DTE back again as a nice bonus.
*like, you don't want to bring back grenade launcher roll-cancels from DMC1
Are you sure this isn't just a case of the fact that you're playing the 4th Souls game and have already adapted to the game?
That's definitely a big factor with the Souls games.
Sure but I still think the later DS3 bosses are a lot harder than the first one.
Compared to say BB where those first 3 bosses were among the hardest bosses in the whole game.
Even in DmC DE, a game and series I have played a lot I felt that the first boss was the easiest and the final boss was the hardest.
I think BB is a tad bit of an unfair comparison considering there was a decent gameplay mechanics shakeup in that game which even Souls vets had to adjust to. But I do agree with you that the later DS3 bosses are harder than the starting ones.
I wasn't talking about from a veteran point of view but rather a new player perspective. Like it's no surprise that if a new player can make it past Yarnham in that game then they have acquired all the skills needed to beat the game without much extra effort. That was definitely a game with a skewered difficulty curve.
I don't think DMC has an egregious problem with difficulty curve or anything. Certainly has gotten better over time. Usually the games have a difficulty peak near the middle and then again at the end.
I don't think DMC has an egregious problem with difficulty curve or anything. Certainly has gotten better over time. Usually the games have a difficulty peak near the middle and then again at the end.
badcrumble
Member
I dunno, Cerberus requires a lot of a new player. You need to learn to:
-identify and respond to attack telegraphs
-discover enemy weak points
-always be shooting
-use aerial attacks without getting hurt during your vulnerable hang time
and more, and much of it is stuff that no previous enemy has really pushed you to do at all. I appreciate that DMC1 had you fight aerial enemies *and* an enemy requiring gun use before you ever go up against Phantom (IIRC).
In that sense, I don't mind that Cerberus is a hard boss - I mind that everything before him is so easy that players aren't taught enough before they face him.
made a kinda sloppy combo vid
really wish i had a good way of editing the music/vid simultaneously so i could match up the vid to the song because it's like, slightly off through my normal method of just jamming it in there
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0gmYyUQTKw
really wish i had a good way of editing the music/vid simultaneously so i could match up the vid to the song because it's like, slightly off through my normal method of just jamming it in there
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0gmYyUQTKw
That's only net sales though, which they blame on their arcades and amusement (pachislot) sectors underperforming. Profits are up, thanks to game software, especially digital backlog sales, which is why remasters is such a major part of their line-up now.
Well they have a bunch of Ace Attorney products to promote. AA6 recently came out, there's the ongoing anime, and they just announced DGS2. I can guarantee they would mention DMC's 15th if they had something. If they announced a PC port of DMC HD Collection or something they'd talk about celebrating DMC's 15th as well. But since they have nothing to show atm there's no point in acknowledging it, because at this point they'd just catch bad PR for it by not having anything to show. Sure it looks bad that they're not acknowledging at all, but by not addressing it, it won't be news and thusly hardcore fans are the only ones that care.
Basically everything Dahbomb suggested would have been my list.
I've thought about some other features as well. I've played around with the idea of having additional easy modes. One for example was what I called Super Easy, where super mode was automatically on. There wouldn't be a score deduction after missions, but as a trade off the difference between D rank and S rank would be almost negligible.
Another thought I had was, if they added optional co-op, being able to summon help like in Souls games. Not only because it would make things accessible to less skilled players, but also because the social aspect might be appealling. It definitely helps with the Souls games' appeal, and a social aspect would help draw more people to DMC. There are other ways to include social features in a way that would feel fitting to the franchise (the oft-discussed DMC.net for example), and summon-a-friend would just be one way.
Speaking of tutorials, though, tutorials I think is a very important factor for DMC. I tried to analyze how DMC games start and compare those with other titles. And the way DMC4 starts is, well, suboptimal to say the least.
- There are several minutes of cutscenes before gameplay starts, way more than DMC3. Gameplay should ideally start within the first two minutes.
- There is no good gameplay hook, as mission 1 starts off with the tutorial, and mission 2 is poorly paced and overlong.
- The tutorial throws a bunch of things at the player. Dodge by rolling, dodge by jumping, attacking, shooting, launching, Bustering. It throws all that at the players and expects them to remember it with no further exploration or explanations.
- Several more minutes of cutscenes bookend the mission
- Combat tutorials are basically over after mission 1. Exceed, DT, Style and Weapon Switching are not properly tutorialized.
- Mission 2 is monstrously long considering it's only the second one. It consists of long trecks through empty areas, while throwing multiple encounters and a boss fight at the player.
I think making the beginning of the game compelling and exhilarating is very important in making DMC both interesting and accessible to new players. Throwing a bunch of shit at them and expecting them to figure it all out by themselves is not a good idea. A game like DMC needs a lot of explaining because of the sheer breadth of systems. It's fine for hardcore action fans, but most among general audiences will be lost.
Edit: Oh, I forgot. A training/Dojo mode, and those additional tips and tricks DmC has during loading screens are on my list as well.
I always like the music choices for your videos.
Loved the finisher with Trish. Looked pretty swanky.
They should have some co-op in the game (in some manner) regardless. It's the next step, it's time.
There is some tutorial pop up for Exceed but there's no real mention of Just Rev in the game.
But yeah "tutorials" in these games are pretty mediocre.
Man PG/SE have gone full auto mode with Nier:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1281290
This is like the bad way to make games accessible IMO.
It's impossible to have tutorials for those at mission#2 when you don't even have those mechanics yet.
There is some tutorial pop up for Exceed but there's no real mention of Just Rev in the game.
But yeah "tutorials" in these games are pretty mediocre.
Man PG/SE have gone full auto mode with Nier:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1281290
This is like the bad way to make games accessible IMO.
Yeah, I know. Sorry, that should have read "never properly tutorialized".
J_Macgrady
Member
Unless Capcom decides to become more pure as a company we all know DMC5 is getting DLC. What type of DLC do you believe they should offer and what should be in the main game at launch?
I want all of the characters playable out of the box, but have the ability to buy costumes as DLC. Knowing Capcom though it will probably be the other way around.
I want all of the characters playable out of the box, but have the ability to buy costumes as DLC. Knowing Capcom though it will probably be the other way around.
Even though this is old news, but GOD DAMN IT NIER AUTOMATA!
http://www.playstationlifestyle.net/2016/08/22/nier-automata-length-to-exceed-25-hours/
Nier Automata literally have the potential of becoming the perfect video game
I know, I know, sorry, I'm just super hyped up about it and I need to stop
http://www.playstationlifestyle.net/2016/08/22/nier-automata-length-to-exceed-25-hours/
Nier Automata literally have the potential of becoming the perfect video game
I know, I know, sorry, I'm just super hyped up about it and I need to stop
Stuff that is acceptable as DLC:
*Costumes for characters.
*Skins for weapons/DTs.
*New missions with their own locations, enemies and bosses (like how the Souls games do it)
*New characters (as long as we get enough in the base game)
*Unlockables/microtransaction/currency (to help the whales and to get some extra cash going into the game even though it's disgusting. Just as long as it doesn't impact the end game and isn't part of the $60 product)
Stuff that is not acceptable as DLC:
*Modes (like trying to sell us Turbo mode as paid DLC)
*Weapons (core weapons locked behind DLC is a no no)
*Real ending DLC or main story DLC
Though honestly if the base game has enough content and later on sell us some "classic" weapon/boss sets then we would all end up buying it anyway. Like if they sold as Alastor/Ifrit/A&R/Cerberus/Nevan as DLC along with the bosses that come with them as extra fights.
Oh god yes! I need more Nevan in my life!
Son Of Sparda
Member
Huh. I guess I missed that part. Though, what they did even release in that period? I honestly can't remember any big Capcom game being released in that fiscal year.
And in regards to 15th anniversary, there were lots of ways that they could have celebrated/acknowledged it without causing bad PR. The simplest one could have been a tweet from Capcom JP/US/EU.
Or they could have went the RE way. Acknowledging the anniversary and saying something like they'll celebrate it "from October 2016 till October 2017" and then announce/tease new DMC next year. Another way would have been to do a few interviews with Itsuno and other devs from DMC3-DMC4 team, sharing some stories and insights from development of those titles and then finishing the interview with a message along the lines of "Thank you all for your continued support and please look forward to hopefully hearing more from DMC series in the future." They also could have done a simple remix video of the entire series and release it in their Youtube channel.
I don't see anyone getting upset over Capcom trying to do any of those things. On the contrary, I think it would have made fans happy since it meant that Capcom still hasn't forgotten about the series.
Honestly, I don't think of the "bad PR" argument as a compelling excuse for Capcom to completely ignore DMCs anniversary. I only can interpret Capcom's current behavior in one of the following ways:
A) Capcom is simply too focused on RE7 series that they don't care enough about their other franchises right now to celebrate their anniversaries. (which can't be true cause they just did that for Ace Attorney)
B) Same as the above with the exception that Capcom doesn't think DMC is big enough to warrant a celebration.
C) Contrary to what we all have believed thus far, DMC series is as dead as Onimusha, Mega Man, Dino Crisis, etc, to Capcom. So they don't see any reason for celebrating the anniversary of a dead series.
D) DMC series is alive but the next entry is still waaaaays off (like still in pre-production/early development phase) so they don't think they can even announce it by October 2017 to make it to the anniversary period.
PS: You know what could Capcom do to make this whole situation even more ludicrous? Completely ignoring DMC's anniversary right now and then announcing a new DMC title late 2017/early 2018 with the 15th anniversary logo. That would be so stupid that I can totally see Capcom doing it.
When looking at it as a genre staple, some form of that has been implemented since DMC3 (1's version doesn't include the auto-combos IIRC), so it's not too surprising an inclusion. Especially since the game's going for a general ARPG audience as well; having an automatic option may actually bode well for the complexity of the underlying 'manual' action.
When it comes to regular character action games, I'm not convinced it's that useful a learning tool either, unlike features like Witch Time. I wonder if it'd help to enable it on a conditional basis as something that can be toggled on ingame if a player gets too overwhelmed, instead of as a blanket option picked at the beginning of a level. That way, it'd incentivise beginners to try out the regular mechanics of the game while having a fall-back option.
It doesn't allow you to learn anything.
But if you are using that mode and are on easy mode then your prerogative isn't to learn the game to begin with.
I mean I get the disappointment of no DMC5 at E3/TGS this year but this is getting way into hyperbole territory. We can start talking about DMC being "dead" if there's nothing on the game after five years from now.
Also someone should do a "What I played/Expected/Got" collage with the DMC series. Just for the hell of it.
But if you are using that mode and are on easy mode then your prerogative isn't to learn the game to begin with.
The hell? DMC series is like light years ahead of those games. What's the last Onimusha and DC product to be released? DMC got DmC DE and DMC4SE only a year ago. Plus we don't know when Capcom is considering the start of the anniversary for the series, maybe they are considering the NA release date or the later European one.
I mean I get the disappointment of no DMC5 at E3/TGS this year but this is getting way into hyperbole territory. We can start talking about DMC being "dead" if there's nothing on the game after five years from now.
Also someone should do a "What I played/Expected/Got" collage with the DMC series. Just for the hell of it.
Chaos2Frozen
Member
This talk about difficulty reminds me of an Extra Credit video where there's a study that shows more players would rather give up a game completely than to reduce the difficulty.
badcrumble
Member
Yeah I'd agree that core weapons (and Styles for that matter) should not be locked behind DLC and that legacy weapons would be fine. I'd argue the same for legacy boss fights/regular enemies as well.
Also cool with me as DLC: decorations for the shop (lol whatever).
Regarding in-game currency: I get where they were going with Proud Souls/skill points (not locking you into your upgrade choices) but I'd honestly prefer to see everything go back under the Red Orbs umbrella and make moves nonrefundable again. The game should supply ways to grind via sidequests if you want to do that (so people don't just replay the first mission or whatever) but also get players to have a better sense of weighing their choices (whereas in DMC4/DmC you just dump all of your red orbs into health/DT upgrades and then ignore them forever).
I don't mind DMC3's fairly passive experience system for Styles and I freely admit that that's a secondary currency (of sorts) just like proud souls. Opening up particular skill branches as you master their simpler moves worked well (aka you need to use a Style to level it up) but also remained properly limited to just Style.
Son Of Sparda
Member
I said that's one of the interpretations that you can make from them ignoring DMCs 15th anniversary.
It's not likely (I don't believe that's the case anyway), but still it is a possibility. For all we know 4SE and DE could have been just side projects/cash grabs for Capcom, while Itsuno's team is focusing on another title/series for their next big development.
Also, I think DMC series will reach dead status if they don't say anything about it until after E3/TGS 2018. That'll be 5 years after DmC and a decade after DMC4. If they don't have anything to show/talk about by then, then the series is officially dead.
In FY2015 they had MH4U, RE HD, Revelations 2 and DmC DE.
Keep in mind I'm not trying excuse Capcom. I'm just trying to explain the possible logic behind some of their decisions. I don't like or agree with a lot of it.
I don't think "bad PR" is the reason, but it could be a reason. I mean, why risk it, especially if they have nothing to show yet. And that's the main reason, that they have nothing to show. It probably doesn't make sense for them to celebrate an anniversary if they have nothing to celebrate with. The 15th isn't that notable either. I'm convinced if this was the 20th they'd announce DMC6 at some point along with some other announcements throughout the year.
I do think they should at least recognize it on twitter. We'll see when the NA and PAL anniversaries for DMC1 arrive. But Capcom JP I can see why they didn't do anything.
I can actually see them doing that last thing. I don't think they actually will, but there is a solid possibility.
Capcom has a single content/multiple use, long term service based strategy for their games. SF5 is an example of this model. RE7 will be getting at least three pieces of DLC. DLC is basically guaranteed for DMC5.
I think anything goes for DLC as long as the game has a fair amount of content. I expect at least slightly more content than DMC4. I think the following should at least be in the base game:
- Dante
- 4 melee weapons & 4 firearms
- 8-10 hour campaign
- 8-10 bosses (not specifically boss fights, but individual bosses)
- Standard array of difficulty modes from Easy to Must Die
- The following unlockables: Turbo Mode, Bloody Palace, LDK costume, Super Dante.
- Expected features like Dojo mode, more evolved combat.
It's sad to say, but I am somewhat ok with Nero being DLC. I don't think he should, but it might make for a more tightly crafted game if they just focus on Dante. I think they would have enough on their hands making a fully-featured game with Dante without having to also consider Nero and give him unique weapons, bosses, and particularly having to make lots of new Buster animations.
Ideally they should reuse as much as they can from DMC4 so they won't have to create those things from scratch.
As for I would accept as DLC:
- Unique campaigns for Vergil/Lady/Trish
- Additional missions, weapons, bosses for Dante and Nero (provided the base game fulfills the above criteria)
- All costumes beside LDK and Super characters
- Legacy weapons and bosses
- Non-legacy modes like Gods Must Die, 30/40/50% Turbo Mode, Boss Rush