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[AgentLampshade]

I want interactive loading screens back. DMC3SE took them away.

I swear I don't mean to top the page with my mundane suggestions. It just happens.

 

[Dahbomb]

Imagine if Itsuno and team, NT and Platinum are all working on DMC5.

NT is working on Hellblade and PG is working on Scalebound/Nier/Granblue.

Nah man... nah.

 

[GuardianE]

Imagine if Itsuno and team, NT and Platinum are all working on DMC5.

Personally that kind of sounds like a potential mess. As Kamiya tweeted, "the ship with too many captains climbs the mountain" or whatever. Basically, too many cooks spoil the broth.

I don't know if Platinum or NT serving as hired coders would really work to either of their strengths, and I'd prefer any creative collaboration between Platinum and Capcom to be a DMC x Bayo project with simultaneously released sister games.

 

[Dahbomb]

Would be more interesting to see From Software/Miyazaki collaborate on DMC.

 

[Seyavesh]

i don't wanna see any of those dudes touch dmc

i want a full on itsuno high budget well polished dmc with 100% of his vision coming in and making it through

also, trish (playable)

 

[Sesha]

NT is working on Hellblade and PG is working on Scalebound/Nier/Granblue.

Nah man... nah.

Rahni Tucker has been working on a secret project as creative director since 2014 though...

Not that I think it's DMC5.

Personally that kind of sounds like a potential mess. As Kamiya tweeted, "the ship with too many captains climbs the mountain" or whatever. Basically, too many cooks spoil the broth.

I don't know if Platinum or NT serving as hired coders would really work to either of their strengths, and I'd prefer any creative collaboration between Platinum and Capcom to be a DMC x Bayo project with simultaneously released sister games.

I love that quote so much. It's so much more clever than the actual maxim.

It is possible in a more outsourcing bits of development-sense, if they just did the grunt work like Access Games did with DMC4SE. I'd love it if the announcement was Capcom, NT and Platinum on DMC5, with everyone freaking out over it. Then eventually it turns out that NT and PG only did grunt development with little to no design input.

 

[Son Of Sparda]

If DMC5 had any direct competition then I would have agreed that a "DMC3/DMC4.5 with prettier graphics wouldn't cut it". But as it is, action stylish genre is a rare breed in its traditional form so I think fans of the genre will be all of over the game as long as they nail the core gameplay.

I honestly would be really annoyed by Capcom if they do that, but I think commercial wise the game would do more than okay even if it was to be just a DMC4.5.

Btw, I've only watched like 40 episodes of original Dragon Ball anime so that comparison is lost on me

First and foremost there needs to be quality. What's there needs to feel complete and polished. I don't necessarily need something over ambitious, because it will most likely fall flat in key areas like DMC4. I'd rather there be an incredibly polished foundation for them to build upon, while ensuring to hit all of the parts of a "complete game" adequately. No more SFV bullshit.

More than ever we've seen smaller budget games do incredibly well by focusing on what the fans want and delivering a well rounded experience that might not exactly match the pyrotechnics of AAA development. RER2 for example.

And in terms of content, DMC3 actually still surpasses a lot of the stylish character action competition out there currently, which says an equal amount about current day offerings as it does about how amazing DMC3 is. Bloodborne/Souls are indirect competitors with different focal points, and I've never really considered them to be any kind of endgoal for DMC outside of potentially some art direction cues.

Idk about that GE.

We haven't seen a really big/okay budget stylish action game in a while now, but smaller stuff like Onechanbara and Senran Kagura currently offer more contents (side modes, training, cosmetics, character/weapons) than DMC series. Though, they are very low budget titles and aren't as deep as DMC series when it comes to action, but still they could be considered stylish action games, considering their general gameplay design (especially Onechan).

I agree that Capcom can get away with offering a package similar to DMC3 (in regards to amount of contents) with DMC5, but that's mostly because they would have the only big stylish action game out there with virtually no competition. That certainly doesn't mean that DMC3's amount of content would and should be acceptable for today's standards. I mean even original Bayonetta was a much more content packed game than DMC3/DMC4 and that title came out 6 years ago.

 

[GuardianE]

Idk about that GE.

We haven't seen a really big/okay budget stylish action game in a while now, but smaller stuff like Onechanbara and Senran Kagura currently offer more contents (side modes, training, cosmetics, character/weapons) than DMC series. Though, they are very low budget titles and aren't as deep as DMC series when it comes to action, but still they could be considered stylish action games, considering their general gameplay design (especially Onechan).

I agree that Capcom can get away with offering a package similar to DMC3 (in regards to amount of contents) with DMC5, but that's mostly because they would have the only big stylish action game out there with virtually no competition. That certainly doesn't mean that DMC3's amount of content would and should be acceptable for today's standards. I mean even original Bayonetta was a much more content packed game than DMC3/DMC4 and that title came out 6 years ago.

DMC3SE's campaign was pretty long, it had fun unlockables, and there's Bloody Palace. It has the key ingredients and extras that one would expect from an action title. I think that they should expand on it with post-launch content, but I don't think that a game released with what DMC3 has to offer on opening day would be met with scorn. Again, it's no SFV, which was missing arguably central modes that a good majority of the audience expects.

While I do enjoy Senran Kagura (haven't tried Oneechanbara yet in my backlog), the combat definitely isn't the focus. There are fun juggle and cancel techniques and parries, but the driving focal point of those games are definitely the characters and the costumes, and if a game like Senran Kagura skimped on those things, it would be the equivalent of a DMC game without enemy step. While they're aged a little at this point, I was looking to MGR, Killer is Dead, God of War, Ninja Gaiden, and Bayo as direct competitors.

I think the lack of competition may be clouding my judgment, but I also don't have any expectations of a next entry meeting the very different priorities and standards of certain genre hybrids. At launch, I think DMC5 just needs to bring an overall solid foundation to build upon. And a DMC3SE-like foundation seems pretty acceptable to me.

I'm not going to say no to more modes, more options, more characters, more weapons, co-op, online interactivity (co-op in particular isn't something that can be just shoehorned in after the fact, and I do consider it to be a necessary next step for the series),... but I just think it's a bit much to suggest DMC3 in its current state would be unacceptable considering that it has a lot of meat on its bones.

 

[J_Macgrady]

I'm with GuardianE. The way you guys word it, it's almost like you are ashamed of DMC3SE & DMC4SE for not being some super ambitious game or something. They provide a nice foundation that the developers can build upon. Itsuno himself even said if he tried every fan suggestion that it would make a mess of a game:

I like to listen to all the fan feedback that I can, but listening to it doesn't mean listening to it and doing everything that the fans request, because that would end up with a not very good game. That's not to say that the fan feedback isn't good, but if you took it all on board and put it all together then you would get a mess in the game. You have to make these decisions about what to include and what not to include. The high level play that we see from the really hardcore fans is something that we want to keep.

At the same time, I want to expand the base of that structure so that you have this very high peak that the fans can reach, but that you still have an accessible of enough base so that people who aren't as hardcore can still get in there and enjoy the gameplay. With that in mind, I like to listen to the fan feedback but not necessarily do exactly what they've asked. Instead I think "Well that's what they like and this is why they want that, but how can I even go above and beyond that with my own idea that will hopefully satisfy those fan desires?"

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/devil-may-crys-future-isnt-tied-to-how-well-devil-/1100-6428432/

 

[Dahbomb]

DMC3 was super ambitious for its time, I even stated that. Even DMC4 was a bit ambitious though not as much as DMC3.

I am just saying you can't put out a DMC4.5 and expect it to sell that well or review well. Especially if you are keeping the same options, controls and camera. That might have been fine if this was 2-3 years after DMC4 but it's going to be almost a decade since 4 released by the time DMC5 actually gets released.

If Capcom listened to the fans then we would just get DMC4.5 with every DMC character thrown in (regardless of their impact on the story). They would still put puzzles and backtracking in the game with wonky camera controls because that's what the fans wanted. They would still have dumb enemies, pedestrian level design and the same moves/weapons we have always had.

So yeah Capcom shouldn't listen to the fans entirely, they should be delivering something that the fans didn't even think of. That's pushing the boundary... give me something I didn't even know I wanted.

 

[Seyavesh]

what kind of drugs are you doing if you think oneechanbara z2 has more content than 3se or 4se lol

like, seriously what

the reuse in that game is like dmc1 levels bad and the missions are straight up a less interesting version of bloody palace/secret missions

 

[J_Macgrady]

DMC3 was super ambitious for its time, I even stated that. Even DMC4 was a bit ambitious though not as much as DMC3.

I am just saying you can't put out a DMC4.5 and expect it to sell that well or review well. Especially if you are keeping the same options, controls and camera. That might have been fine if this was 2-3 years after DMC4 but it's going to be almost a decade since 4 released by the time DMC5 actually gets released.

If Capcom listened to the fans then we would just get DMC4.5 with every DMC character thrown in (regardless of their impact on the story). They would still put puzzles and backtracking in the game with wonky camera controls because that's what the fans wanted. They would still have dumb enemies, pedestrian level design and the same moves/weapons we have always had.

So yeah Capcom shouldn't listen to the fans entirely, they should be delivering something that the fans didn't even think of. That's pushing the boundary... give me something I didn't even know I wanted.

I know I never said I wanted any of those things outside of all of the characters being playable. There's just no point in being super extra over the top when it comes to breaking away from the series' comfort zone.

You're a fan giving suggestions to Capcom as well with the Souls genre hybrid theory stuff. They're coming off of making an action rpg. It should be a no brainer that they have matured with their outlook on how the game is structured. I'm just saying that DMC5 doesn't have to be something entirely different from what the series is all about in order for it to be a great game.

Because realistically, it takes a long time to implement a lot of this stuff. They took like 3 years making DMC4 and that still wasn't enough time to make a complete game. I rather they focus on making a complete well polished game than trying to do too much and end up pleasing only a few people.

 

[Golnei]

Yeah. Development was outsourced to Access Games, Swery65's studio, with development overseen by Itsuno and others from Capcom. Capcom was more involved in development than with DmC, going by the credits.

It's interesting to note that this means DMC4SE shares a reasonable amount of staff with the unmitigated technical disaster Drakengard 3, including the lead animator and programmer. I guess they did have a good base to build on here...

*Try not to offend any groups while making the game. That means that Trish/Lady shouldn't be clad in skimpier clothing and have little to do with the plot if they are in the game. Japanese companies are still notorious for poor implementation of female characters in games.

That could place them at risk of backlash from fans of the series who feel that they're being ignored to chase a new audience, like DmC. Something like DMC3 Lady's design would be a good middle ground between not breaking visual continuity with the rest of the series and avoiding inciting the wrath of either internet hate mob. Skimpier costumes could presumably be incorporated as DLC.

 

[Dahbomb]

I don't think DMC should be more Souls like in anything really. In fact, I think DMC has the opportunity to go much further than what the Souls games offer. The Souls games at this point are super refined in what they can offer... it's really hard for them to evolve much without massive mechanical changes (and by that point they would be completely different games).

Like yeah Souls bosses are godly but the Souls bosses are still confined to the mechanics of the game. DMC bosses can be faster and cover more of the screen with their attacks because your character can jump up really high and stay afloat in the air. They can be more aggressive because DMC characters have limitless stamina. The final phase of the Vergil fight in DmC DE is quite literally not possible in a Souls game and that's just a mild example.

Level design in Souls game is great and all but again... it has to follow the limitations of the character. DMC level designs can incorporate more verticality and better platforming segments because of better abilities. You have more avenues to create hidden pathways/secrets in the environments.

All that remains are the RPG mechanics (because the combat in the Souls game is like sub DMC1 tier so it's not even worth talking about) and those of course poor fit for DMC. Min/maxing DPS/damage mitigation is boring and having skills/weapons gated behind level requirements is not at all what DMC is about. This also extends to stuff like the healing, checkpoint system, itemization etc.


DMC games have not been all they can be. They can be improved in many ways and quite easily surpass the Souls games. I just get really frustrated when the Souls games have enemies/bosses that are more aggressive and have more variety in their attacks/animations than in a DMC game... like it should be the exact opposite.

 

[GuardianE]

I don't want it to sound like I want DMC4.5. I really don't. My point is that DMC3 was a much stronger overall package than DMC4 was, for a variety of reasons, and I feel like the completeness of the DMC3SE package cannot be overstated. Personally, I think it holds up quite well even to today's standards.

This is not to say that there shouldn't be an expansion of ideas, and incorporation of new things to meet general expectations in terms of control and options. And the things on the GAF Wishlist are things that I want in the game, if not at launch, then down the road. I also just want to be sure that the fundamentals aren't lost in the shuffle of trying to capture a different kind of audience (like what DmC originally set out to do).

That could place them at risk of backlash from fans of the series who feel that they're being ignored to chase a new audience, like DmC. Something like DMC3 Lady's design would be a good middle ground between not breaking visual continuity with the rest of the series and avoiding inciting the wrath of either internet hate mob. Skimpier costumes could presumably be incorporated as DLC.

Go all out with DLC, for sure. That's a gimme.. Let the designs go crazy, sexy, stupid.

 

[Seyavesh]

man this is slick

 

[Kaztinka]

what kind of drugs are you doing if you think oneechanbara z2 has more content than 3se or 4se lol

like, seriously what

the reuse in that game is like dmc1 levels bad and the missions are straight up a less interesting version of bloody palace/secret missions

IS THERE A BOSS THAT HAS AN ATTACK THAT MAKES YOU FIGHT PREVIOUS BOSSES WHO YOU ALSO FOUGHT 3 TIMES THOUGH?! cause that's a selling feature for me....

 

[GuardianE]

man this is slick

You know, I always wanted a collection where the covers just were plain black, with a simple red silhouette of the respective Trish/Dante/Nero from each title. No words or anything. I still think that'd look nice.

 

[DantesLink]

man this is slick

Pretty awesome, would get that day one!

 

[Dahbomb]

man this is slick

Make DmC the Definitive edition and we got ourselves a HELL of a party!

Now THIS would be a great 15th anniversary gift for the fans.

 

[Mizerman]

man this is slick

Would be a nice collection to have.

 

[J_Macgrady]

man this is slick

I like that reboot cover a lot more than the one we got.

 

[Son Of Sparda]

Okay a couple of things.

First, guys GE argued that DMC3 (no mention of SE, means the vanilla version) has enough content that is surpasses most current stylish action games today. I think you guys have forgotten how much SE actually added to the DMC3. Vanilla version means no Bloody Palace, no Vergil, no turbo mode and no Jester fights (there are probably a couple of other things that I can't remember right now).

I honestly don't think that's a good package for an action game coming out in 2018/2019.

Second, I said it in my initial post that Onechan is low budget. These games are literally bottom of the barrel when it comes to budget and resources. So, of course they can't compete with DMC on stuff like level design or length of campaign. But still when you consider that the base game has, 4 playable characters each with their own primary and secondary weapons, unlockable accessories, training mode, mission mode (with different difficulty settings) and a lot of cosmetic stuff (the base game alone has like a dozen costumes, there are also hairstyle, cosmetic accessories for each main part of the body, etc) then it's really not far fetched to say that they offer more content than vanilla DMC3/DMC4 did when they launched. And Onechan actually got more of those stuff through DLCs.

Though, I know the definition of content differs from person to person so, some of you might consider styles and gameplay systems (like jump canceling, buster moves, etc) as contents. In that case you are right to say that DMC has more content in its gameplay. Though, I personally look at those stuff as mechanisms and systems rather than contents.

At any rate, moving past the Onechan comparison I still don't see DMC3SE and 4SE as good standard content packed titles for a 2018/2019 game. Maybe my standards are a little bit too high but if I had to chose a DMC release which would have enough content to be released two, three years from now, then DmCE's would be the one. I think that should be the standard.

 

[TreIII]

man this is slick

Saw this pass my timeline earlier today when Kamiya smiled at it.

Really does look slick.

That could place them at risk of backlash from fans of the series who feel that they're being ignored to chase a new audience, like DmC. Something like DMC3 Lady's design would be a good middle ground between not breaking visual continuity with the rest of the series and avoiding inciting the wrath of either internet hate mob. Skimpier costumes could presumably be incorporated as DLC.

I don't think it would be so much "about chasing a new audience", as it would be about just doing more to make the series more palatable, as a whole. You can make the ladies look stylish and sexy without having their goods hanging out in their default outfits. Same goes for the white-haired trio, and they're the main attraction for the female demographic.

Besides, someone like Trish is due for a new outfit, anyway. It ain't 2001, no more, girl, go treat yourself to something new!

 

[GuardianE]

Okay a couple of things.

First, guys GE argued that DMC3 (no mention of SE, means the vanilla version) has enough content that is surpasses most current stylish action games today. I think you guys have forgotten how much SE actually added to the DMC3. Vanilla version means no Bloody Palace, no Vergil, no turbo mode and no Jester fights (there are probably a couple of other things that I can't remember right now).

I honestly don't think that's a good package for an action game coming out in 2018/2019.

Second, I said it in my initial post that Onechan is low budget. These games are literally bottom of the barrel when it comes to budget and resources. So, of course they can't compete with DMC on stuff like level design or length of campaign. But still when you consider that the base game has, 4 playable characters each with their own primary and secondary weapons, unlockable accessories, training mode, mission mode (with different difficulty settings) and a lot of cosmetic stuff (the base game alone has like a dozen costumes, there are also hairstyle, cosmetic accessories for each main part of the body, etc) then it's really not far fetched to say that they offer more content than vanilla DMC3/DMC4 did when they launched. And Onechan actually got more of those stuff through DLCs.

Though, I know the definition of content differs from person to person so, some of you might consider styles and gameplay systems (like jump canceling, buster moves, etc) as contents. In that case you are right to say that DMC has more content in its gameplay. Though, I personally look at those stuff as mechanisms and systems rather than contents.

At any rate, moving past the Onechan comparison I still don't see DMC3SE and 4SE as good standard content packed titles for a 2018/2019 game. Maybe my standards are a little bit too high but if I had to chose a DMC release which would have enough content to be released two, three years from now, then DmCE's would be the one. I think that should be the standard.

I actually did mean DMC3SE. I don't think I was very clear though in my earlier posts.

The main reason why I say that DMC3SE arguably has more content overall than modern day competition is because the campaign itself is very meaty/lengthy by today's standards, even with the good pacing and a strong focus. That, along with the extra fixins' supplemented in the SE, makes for a decent out of the gate package. It could be better, but I don't think it's the inadequate dinosaur that was being suggested.

Besides, someone like Trish is due for a new outfit, anyway. It ain't 2001, no more, girl, go treat yourself to something new!

I guess technically, Trish's costume (and hair) did change ever so slightly:

Her top went from a cup to tube top design with mesh, and her parted bangs were removed entirely. I actually prefer her old hair. But she could definitely stand to get a fresh new outfit.

 

[Son Of Sparda]

I actually did mean DMC3SE. I don't think I was very clear though in my earlier posts.

The main reason why I say that DMC3SE arguably has more content overall than modern day competition is because the campaign itself is very meaty/lengthy by today's standards, despite good pacing and a strong focus. That, along with the extra fixins' supplemented in the SE, makes for a decent out of the gate package. It could be better, but I don't think it's the inadequate dinosaur that was being suggested.

Ah, okay that makes more sense then. I only saw DMC3 in your post and thought you were talking about vanilla version.

That's fair. Though, personally for me, if they were to do this then they had to add more to the campaign in higher difficulties. Like give every enemy (including bosses) one or two new attacks on each tougher difficulty. Or change up platforming in certain areas/have newer and tougher secret missions when you get to higher difficulties to vary the campaign a little. Or have new weapons/styles (I hope they do with styles though) as rewards for clearing new difficulties with SS ranks.

They can also add certain challenges and time/damage trials to selected parts of campaigns to spice things up a little. All in all, having a meaty campaign could justify the lack of new modes (at launch) if they try new things with difficulties. I don't like how right now Son of Sparda and DMD have you go through the same waves of enemies with the same kind of attacks (sometimes bosses have new attacks which is cool) with DMD ones just hitting harder and going into a DT state.

Right now (thanks to difficulty settings being locked), by the time you finish the game for the first time on DMD, you've played through campaign so many times that it starts to get repetitive/boring.

 

[Dahbomb]

Trish is the least redesigned character in DMC history. Not even DmC and DMC2 manage to change her.

Even the DMC anime just had her in the default costume with a coat on her:

 

[Golnei]

I don't think it would be so much "about chasing a new audience", as it would be about just doing more to make the series more palatable, as a whole. You can make the ladies look stylish and sexy without having their goods hanging out in their default outfits. Same goes for the white-haired trio, and they're the main attraction for the female demographic.

Besides, someone like Trish is due for a new outfit, anyway. It ain't 2001, no more, girl, go treat yourself to something new!

DMC is still one of the larger names in the genre, so I can understand the need to make it palatable to a general audience in that respect - going the Onechanbara / Senran Kagura route probably won't help expand their niche, and even DMC4's Gloria stuff may have turned off more people than it attracted. But at the same time, they'd have to be careful to maintain the established appeal of the characters, and not sacrifice too much of what endears people to them in the first place.

In any case, I'd definitely support them refreshing Trish's standard look.

Trish is the least redesigned character in DMC history. Not even DmC and DMC2 manage to change her.

Even the DMC anime just had her in the default costume with a coat on her:

I guess we did have her Gloria costume...?

Also, speaking of coats, this still needs to make an appearance in one of the games.

 

[Kaleinc]

Quick question.

Wasn't DMC4SE development handled by another company for the most part

Yes and boy it shows. The half of modern PCs can't even run it.

It's interesting to note that this means DMC4SE shares a reasonable amount of staff with the unmitigated technical disaster Drakengard 3, including the lead animator and programmer. I guess they did have a good base to build on here...

Funny thing is Access Games delivered on the bolded part.

 

[AgentLampshade]

man this is slick

Where on earth did they get that image of DmC Dante? Can't say I've seen it before, and I'm pretty confident I'd seen all the promotional material for the game.

 

[kyo_strife]

Where on earth did they get that image of DmC Dante? Can't say I've seen it before, and I'm pretty confident I'd seen all the promotional material for the game.

Never seen that artwork before but Raiden sure has something to say about it

 

[BadWolf]

It's interesting to note that this means DMC4SE shares a reasonable amount of staff with the unmitigated technical disaster Drakengard 3, including the lead animator and programmer. I guess they did have a good base to build on here...

Playing through Drakengard 3 atm and enjoying it quite a bit to be honest.

The frame rate is very iffy but other than that the core combat is pretty fun for what it is, with weapon switching, dodging (with easily canceling out of attack animations), parrying etc. Zero is a great character, really dig her design too. The story and characters so far overall are the kind of goodness I can expect only from this director.

The biggest issue is clearly the lack of budget, which has luckily been fixed with Nier 2 it seems.

What's funny is that even with the really low budget, the game's main campaign is still leaps and bounds better than DMC4's, with no backtracking in the main campaign and no silly puzzles. And whatever basic platforming is there is funny since it's just there for characters to make fun of it. Playing through previous areas comes into play only when going for the other endings (which again have rearranged enemies and a lot of new story elements instead of just having you replay for a different ending).

Also has a bunch of sidequests (all optional but have really nice and useful rewards) where you can mostly just enjoy the combat with no exploration. One of the quests types is bloody palace like.

Man I seriously hope DMC5's campaign isn't garbage like DMC4's.

 

[badcrumble]

I think it's fairly safe to say that most of us are unworried about the quality of the combat but fairly worried about the quality of the campaign/amount of content.

My basic view is that the minimum DMC5 should shoot for is essentially a DMC3 quality campaign, plus the number of characters from DMC4SE, with Dante made marginally more accessible and Nero/Lady/Trish fleshed out with further depth.

A 'better' DMC5 would also include the amount of side and postgame content as Bayonetta 1/2.

And 'best' would actually restructure some of the core assumptions about how the campaign works (i.e. boldly going ahead to a shop-as-hub or open world concept or something) without abandoning the crucial score-attack part of the game.

 

[Son Of Sparda]

Playing through Drakengard 3 atm and enjoying it quite a bit to be honest.

The frame rate is very iffy but other than that the core combat is pretty fun for what it is, with weapon switching, dodging (with easily canceling out of attack animations), parrying etc. Zero is a great character, really dig her design too. The story and characters so far overall are the kind of goodness I can expect only from this director.

The biggest issue is clearly the lack of budget, which has luckily been fixed with Nier 2 it seems.

What's funny is that even with the really low budget, the game's main campaign is still leaps and bounds better than DMC4's, with no backtracking in the main campaign and no silly puzzles. And whatever basic platforming is there is funny since it's just there for characters to make fun of it. Playing through previous areas comes into play only when going for the other endings (which again have rearranged enemies and a lot of new story elements instead of just having you replay for a different ending).

Also has a bunch of sidequests (all optional but have really nice and useful rewards) where you can mostly just enjoy the combat with no exploration. One of the quests types is bloody palace like.

Man I seriously hope DMC5's campaign isn't garbage like DMC4's.

Oh man! I can't wait to see your reaction when you reach the true final boss. Please do a LTTP on it later


And yeah, I can't believe I forgot about Darkengard 3's campaign. The framerate was atrocious, some of the design choices were mind boggling (really? the music only has vocals in intoner mode? REALLY?) but for everything that the game did wrong, they nailed the campaign for an action title IMO. You replay through the game but not only the story changes, the layout of the enemies, bosses and even levels are different. That makes sure the campaign doesn't get boring and has very high replayability.

Also, the writing in that game is sometimes legit hilarious. I really enjoyed the bickering between Zero and her followers

 

[BadWolf]

My basic view is that the minimum DMC5 should shoot for is essentially a DMC3 quality campaign, plus the number of characters from DMC4SE, with Dante made marginally more accessible and Nero/Lady/Trish fleshed out with further depth.

In terms of story sure but actual campaign/mission design? That would be very disappointing.

DMC3 may have been smarter about how it arranged its backtracking compared to DMC4 (which was super blatant) but in the end it has about as much as, if not more, backtracking as DMC4.

It'd rather the series follow DmC's example of near zero (?) backtracking.

Oh man! I can wait to see your reaction when you reach the true final boss. Please do an LTTP on it later


And yeah, I can't believe I forgot about Darkengard 3's campaign. The framerate was atrocious, some of the design choices were mind boggling (really? the music only has vocals in intoner mode? REALLY?) but for everything that the game did wrong, they nailed the campaign for an action title IMO. You replay through the game but not only the story changes, the layout of the enemies, bosses and even levels are different. That makes sure the campaign doesn't get boring and has very high replayability.

Also, the writing in that game is sometimes legit hilarious. I really enjoyed the bickering between Zero and her followers

I've tried to avoid spoilers but have still heard about the final boss being really something, can't wait!

Yeah the writing is great, really dig how they mock and stray away from the usual things you expect in a game as well.

 

[Golnei]

I think it's fairly safe to say that most of us are unworried about the quality of the combat but fairly worried about the quality of the campaign/amount of content.

My basic view is that the minimum DMC5 should shoot for is essentially a DMC3 quality campaign, plus the number of characters from DMC4SE, with Dante made marginally more accessible and Nero/Lady/Trish fleshed out with further depth.

A 'better' DMC5 would also include the amount of side and postgame content as Bayonetta 1/2.

And 'best' would actually restructure some of the core assumptions about how the campaign works (i.e. boldly going ahead to a shop-as-hub or open world concept or something) without abandoning the crucial score-attack part of the game.

That's a very generous stance to take for a minimum expectation. I really don't think it's a stretch for there to be only two playable characters in the base game, and even then; DmC shows that it's relatively feasible for them to make the second one DLC.

Otherwise, I agree.

Playing through Drakengard 3 atm and enjoying it quite a bit to be honest.

The frame rate is very iffy but other than that the core combat is pretty fun for what it is, with weapon switching, dodging (with easily canceling out of attack animations), parrying etc. Zero is a great character, really dig her design too. The story and characters so far overall are the kind of goodness I can expect only from this director.

The biggest issue is clearly the lack of budget, which has luckily been fixed with Nier 2 it seems.

The combat isn't that bad, especially when taken against the first two games, but that framerate nearly killed the whole thing for me. I'm hoping it can eventually get a PC port to at least fix that much, but if the first Nier won't get ported, it looks like it'll have no chance.

Regardless, it is good to see Nier Automata get better treatment - the decent production values and far more polished gameplay are still so weird to see on a Yoko Taro-directed game. I still don't entirely believe it exists.

 

[Son Of Sparda]

I've tried to avoid spoilers but have still heard about the final boss being really something, can't wait!

Yeah the writing is great, really dig how they mock and stray away from the usual things you expect in a game as well.

Oh It is *something* alright I really hope you enjoy it.

Yeah. It also stays very true to the characters and their personalities through out the story, while making sure that they don't become annoyingly repetitive in who they are what are their desires.

I don't know if Taro did all the writings himself or if he had help, but either way, I hope we get the same writing team to do dialogues for Nier Automata.

 

[TreIII]

DMC is still one of the larger names in the genre, so I can understand the need to make it palatable to a general audience in that respect - going the Onechanbara / Senran Kagura route probably won't help expand their niche, and even DMC4's Gloria stuff may have turned off more people than it attracted. But at the same time, they'd have to be careful to maintain the established appeal of the characters, and not sacrifice too much of what endears people to them in the first place.

In any case, I'd definitely support them refreshing Trish's standard look.

Exactly, and that's all the more reason I just say that they just need to just a little more thought into character designs besides going immediately for blatant fanservice angle. Save that for the alts.

On that same note, I would hope that between the reception that DMC3 Vergil's alt received, as well as how both Kobayashi's other series, RE and BASARA, have both seen fit to try and make the "fanservice" go both ways, I hope that DMC5 will have quite a bit of in-game (and DLC/SeasonPass, I guess...) costumes that will satiate all parties involved. I'm all for #EqualOpportunityFanservice.

 

[badcrumble]

Just give me a default Lady design that's closer to DMC3 than it is to DMC4 and I'll be pretty satisfied, tbh.

 

[Sephzilla]

man this is slick

Three good games, a bad game, and DMC2.

Fine, I'd bite.

 

[Kaztinka]

Three good games, a bad game, and DMC2.

Fine, I'd bite.

LMFAO

 

[Golnei]

On that same note, I would hope that between the reception that DMC3 Vergil's alt received, as well as how both Kobayashi's other series, RE and BASARA, have both seen fit to try and make the "fanservice" go both ways, I hope that DMC5 will have quite a bit of in-game (and DLC/SeasonPass, I guess...) costumes that will satiate all parties involved. I'm all for #EqualOpportunityFanservice.

It'd be nice for some of that to bleed through - there is obviously some attempt to make the male cast appealing in that regard, from general designs to Nero's entire persona, but it could stand to be more of a deliberate focus, given how well it's worked to broaden the fanbases of the series you listed. Really, anything would be a step up after 4 and SE couldn't even provide coatless costumes - thankfully Vergil's one has been modded in.

 

[DantesLink]

Where on earth did they get that image of DmC Dante? Can't say I've seen it before, and I'm pretty confident I'd seen all the promotional material for the game.

Its shown up a few times on my radar.

Never seen that artwork before but Raiden sure has something to say about it

Though the cover style looked familiar, lol. Cool looking non-the-less.

 

[AgentLampshade]

I'm salty because I want to make that box art now I know that image exists, but I can't because its been done (probably better than I'd have made it too), but as long as we're sharing, here are my DMC boxes.

 

[Seyavesh]

Where on earth did they get that image of DmC Dante? Can't say I've seen it before, and I'm pretty confident I'd seen all the promotional material for the game.

all the boxart was custom assembled by the artist- you can actually see that the dmc4se one is a mishmash of different dmc4 art stuff too, haha.
it's a combination of this piece and another that actually shows up on the dmc4 title screen after you beat it iirc (the one w/ nero and dante on it)

also, the artist wanted to be credited w/ their twitter handle so she's here:
https://twitter.com/fateinteractive

 

[Son Of Sparda]

Capcom is trying to go for that 2.5 year dev cycle yet again. So if there is a DMC5 then it should release by the first half of 2018.

www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=217851206&posted=1#post217851206

 

[Dahbomb]

Probably does not apply to DMC5 but may apply to the DMC game after 5.

 

[darkslayer101]

looks like TGS 2017 it is...

 

[badcrumble]

Capcom is trying to go for that 2.5 year dev cycle yet again. So if there is a DMC5 then it should release by the first half of 2018.

www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=217851206&posted=1#post217851206

Possibly. I suspect that DMC4SE was a way to subsidize some of the development/design work for DMC5 (basically a test bed for some new characters that aren't particularly well-balanced for DMC4).

 

[J_Macgrady]

Capcom is trying to go for that 2.5 year dev cycle yet again. So if there is a DMC5 then it should release by the first half of 2018.

www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=217851206&posted=1#post217851206

I hope the season pass doesn't include the rest of the game and it's just characters, costumes, and story mode DLC.

Other than that E3 2017 it's going down guys. Watch.