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Devil May Cry 4 Special Edition |OT| Two girls, one motivated Vergil
- Thread starter Sigmaah
- Start date
Son Of Sparda
Member
I can't believe that I finally found someone who liked that part of DMC3 as well! I always thought that was a cool concept and added a nice little diversion to the game, but people hate platforming in DMC so passionately that I never talked about it.
Platforming isn't necessarily bad. It's just needs to be done in short non-annoying segments and in cool and somewhat skill based way.
And as you said, that rotating platforms in DMC3 were an example of good platforming in DMC series. IMO DMC4 is where platforming really went to shit and became plain annoying.
It's kinda off-topic but man, I wish the bolded part was true for other niche games, namely Yakuza series.
No matter how much we sing its praises and show awesome gifs/videos of it, people just don't seem interested. It's crazy how good these games are and how badly they sell in west. The entire series (6 games thus far) hasn't even reach 1 million overall sale in western markets...
badcrumble
Member
I wouldn't go so far as to say that the minecart was 'platforming' insofar as it's impossible to fall off of it, but I think it was a more visually fun way to handle what was generally a static battle arena.
The spinning gears with the bloodgoyles though... ehhhh.
The spinning gears with the bloodgoyles though... ehhhh.
Most of the Yakuza games aren't on PC/Steam which greatly limits its potential long term sales.
Plus they are barely advertised and localization seems to be a big issue with these games. This falls entirely on how Sega publishes/markets Yakuza in the West. Garbage company gonna remain garbage.
J_Macgrady
Member
What I mean by DMC4.5 is not literally the same exact game. All I mean is one that doesn't forget the foundation established by DMC3/4 and focuses on adding things on to that foundation as well as fix the flaws of the series. DMC4 was rushed it's no secret. I'm just not looking for something that tries too hard to do so many different things and what we have isn't polished and well made. They're only getting 3-3.5 years to make it.
For real. I don't think it needs to do much other than be great for people to get it eventually. People are hungry for a title that's on the level of the holy trinity.
Son Of Sparda
Member
Okay.... I think we might be talking about different parts of DMC3. I'm talking about those rotating/moving cubes that you had to jump on in order to reach a door on a higher level.
I always thought that was a nice little diversion and since the game wont punish you for falling down, it isn't really annoying either.
Yeah, I think Yakuza might be one of the few series that every fan in its community actually wishes for it to be released in as much platforms as possible. It's really eyebrow raising that Sega still isn't willing to bring the series to steam, even though they just recently had a huge success with Valkyria Chronicles re-release on that platform.
Unfortunately lack of advertising have always been another big problem with Yakuza titles in the past. Though, they've changed that a little bit with Yakuza 0. They had a trailer for its announcement at PSX. They had a PS blog post for its release date and recently another one with the pre-order bonuses. And speaking of which they are actually doing a cool Business Edition for anyone who buys the game early after its launch or pre-orders it, which includes a very very badass looking card holder.
So, at least they are trying with Y0. But the main problem is (and that's why I brought it up here) that the word of mouth is not getting out there. Like, the game looks great each time they show it, we fans use any opportunity we get to talk about its strengths and show them with gifs and stuff.
(hell, I've even done it here a few times)
Our last shot that we are currently working on is a Premier Yakuza thread that we wanna do before end of the year and we are hoping to get more attention with that. Though, I'm not sure how successful that might be.
Anyway, yeah sorry for the rant. It's just something that has become really head scratching for me that word of mouth does not seem to work with Yakuza. And I don't know what more can be done from us fans to get people interested in the series.
badcrumble
Member
I don't actually think DMC4 was rushed so much as it had a troubled development. Remember the early teaser featuring Ugly Dante in the snow, years before the game came out? I don't think they had a full idea of what they wanted to do with it for a while.
I'm guessing that wasn't present in the equivalent files from the original release of 4? If they had a training mode planned, maybe it fell victim to the compressed schedule SE had to be pushed out on, which would raise questions as to its scope - it's hard to believe something which could be achieved by third-party hacking couldn't be implemented in time for release, maybe they were going for something more comprehensive that couldn't be finished in time for all characters.
That teaser was made around the time the game started development. The earliest ideas they had were of Dante in a snowy castle, hence the artwork of Dante in a coat. What we know is that the team weren't too keen on working on DMC4 initially because they felt they had spent all of their ideas and done all they could do with Dante in 4. The introduction of Nero was what revitalized the team. Hard to say when in the development process this happened, but it most have been somewhere between the teasers at E3 and TGS 2005 and the proper reveal trailer at TGS 2006.
Looks like they might have wanted to implement a training mode. They probably scrapped the idea early if that's the only hint of its existence. We know the original plan for 4SE was for playable Vergil, new costumes, and skins of Lady and Trish for Nero and Dante. Maybe they wanted to make a practice mode as well.
Son Of Sparda
Member
So they did plan to add it at one point. So now I can blame the girls for taking away this mode from us. Thanks babes.
But on a more serious note, I wonder why it is called practice and not training. Maybe it was supposed to be something more than what we got in DmC?
Pretty frustrating omission from the console versions.
Curiouser and curiouser.
If they weren't able to implement a basic training mode then that means that what they had in mind was larger in scope and more involved. Probably just going into DMC5 but this is good news, at least it's on their mind.
Huh. Didn't realize that was supposed to be a thing.
Damn. That should have been in. I wonder if they ran out of time?
J_Macgrady
Member
They probably did because like Sesha said, Lady and Trish originally were supposed to be costumes for Dante, Nero and Vergil. Half way through development they decided to make them playable with their own moveset. It'll be in DMC5 so I ain't even worried about it.
CrimsonCrescendo
Banned
An actual tutorial on the advanced mechanics of Devil May Cry, and I'm talking more than a "Press X to do thing" but an actual walkthrough like what ChaserTech did a few years ago and more would be amazing. I know players who didn't Rev Nero's sword or always had to do it manually because they didn't understand the timing. It would allow for newcomers to not feel like the engaging with the combat mechanics of Devil May Cry is so unobtainable and intimidating. Sure you might not be making combo videos, but helping players make that first step into the deeper mechanics of Devil May Cry would be a good step to rebuilding the community surrounding it (being able to share combos would also help with community engagement). I can't tell you how many countless hours learning the nuances of the combat system added to my playtime of Devil May Cry 3 and 4. But that's because I wanted to learn and had to look up youtube videos and engaged with the community.
Son Of Sparda
Member
I think a truly fleshed out training mode not only should teach players the advance mechanics of the game but also should give them exercises. When you are learning stuff the sentiment is that "practice makes perfect"and I agree with that. So practice/training mode should IMO provide that option to players.
And it would be even better if we could have customized exercises. Like the game provides you the combo-able attacks and let you choose the chain of attacks that (would work) you are looking for and then you can set how many times you want to do that attack (consecutively or not). Then have the game help you do the newly made exercise by telling you whether you managed to do it properly.
For example, if I wanna practice JC on Helm's Breaker then I can set my exercise to something simple like this:
High Time ---> Helm's Breaker --/--> JC ---> Helm's Breaker (10x - consecutively)
And there would be a counter to show me how good I'm doing or if I've messed up and didn't manage to do the attacks consecutively.
I don't know if making something like that is even feasible or not. But that's what I consider to be the ultimate and truly next level practice/training mode.
And it would be even better if we could have customized exercises. Like the game provides you the combo-able attacks and let you choose the chain of attacks that (would work) you are looking for and then you can set how many times you want to do that attack (consecutively or not). Then have the game help you do the newly made exercise by telling you whether you managed to do it properly.
For example, if I wanna practice JC on Helm's Breaker then I can set my exercise to something simple like this:
High Time ---> Helm's Breaker --/--> JC ---> Helm's Breaker (10x - consecutively)
And there would be a counter to show me how good I'm doing or if I've messed up and didn't manage to do the attacks consecutively.
I don't know if making something like that is even feasible or not. But that's what I consider to be the ultimate and truly next level practice/training mode.
A tutorial like what Skullgirls or Guilty Gear Xrd has would be a good addition, but more important than that is having a good tutorial during the actual campaign. DMC4's problems is that it just throws everything at the player at once during the beginning, and expects them to remember everything. While later tutorials, the little there are, are never explored to the same extent. At the same time during mission 1, players are introduced to the story and the fundamental characters and expected to pay attention to 10+ minutes of cutscenes. For veteran players this isn't an issue, but for newcomers and casual DMC fans it's a lot tougher.
You're gonna buy enemy step, exceed and distortion and you're gonna like it.
J_Macgrady
Member
Word lol. Once they saw how people abused it in DMC3 they were like "nah ya gotta buy this shit if you want to style on demons."
I hope they finally get rid of DMC2 from the timeline or go beyond it. The franchise can't be tied to the worst game in the series just because it exists.
Or what? You are going to boycott DMC5?
Ayy lmao...
I don't care either way to be honest but I would like it if I had it as a default ability.
You'll do it and you will grudgingly accept it.
If DMC5 erases DMC2 from canon I will throw a party. In return I wouldn't even throw that much of a hissy fit if it also brought back Mundus.
Mundus should come back when Dante has an offspring. Maybe some future spin off game. Maybe we can have a female lead.
I don't think it really matters much if DMC2 is in continuity or not. It's not like it even changed the status quo. They can start a new story after DMC2 and then be like "oh the other characters were on vacation" or something. It's like the DMC anime, which is in continuity but nothing really happens so it doesn't matter if it's in continuity or not.
I don't think it really matters much if DMC2 is in continuity or not. It's not like it even changed the status quo. They can start a new story after DMC2 and then be like "oh the other characters were on vacation" or something. It's like the DMC anime, which is in continuity but nothing really happens so it doesn't matter if it's in continuity or not.
J_Macgrady
Member
Yeah I guess that works. It just seemed like the developers always felt chained to it so it would be nice to finally move on from it one way or the other.
I guess don't really care if they erase it or not. What I actually want is for DMC5 to ignore DMC2 like 3 and 4 have and just do it's own thing.
That I'm cool with. Something like Dante's daughter and Nero teaming up to take down Mundus is an okay plot for a game in my mind.
That I'm cool with. Something like Dante's daughter and Nero teaming up to take down Mundus is an okay plot for a game in my mind.
Son Of Sparda
Member
What DMC needs is a new rival for Dante. Someone who is equally strong or even a little bit stronger than him, and have no problem with the idea of killing Dante and everyone he loves, if they get in his way.
Basically someone like Vergil but much more vicious and evil. Well, either that or one of the ancient demonic gods that way outclasses both Sparda and Mundus in terms of power.
Basically someone like Vergil but much more vicious and evil. Well, either that or one of the ancient demonic gods that way outclasses both Sparda and Mundus in terms of power.
badcrumble
Member
I think for at least one game (maybe longer) someone who's essentially an evil/antagonist version of Lady would work well as a *secondary* antagonist if and when they redeem Vergil (which is likely the only thing left to do with him): someone who's so single-minded in their crusade against demons that they want to kill Trish/Dante/Nero/Vergil and won't listen to reason about it.
I think DmC fucked up its approach to the Sparda material pretty badly but the fundamental idea of bringing angels into the picture isn't a bad one. DMC4 certainly hints at it aesthetically (though at times I wonder whether DMC4 and Bayonetta 1 were both made from the same notes, given some uncanny similarities between their plots).
Old man Nero would be kinda hype. Would be interesting to see him in a mentor role.
If they go with the "human" type antagonist for future DMC games (like an evil version of Lady) then you probably have to start incorporating in sorcerery/miracles/magics in the story for the character to compete with Dante. So basically Father Alexander Anderson. Either that or you go the other route and focus on sci fi stuff like MGR and Senator Armstrong. I think magic fits better with DMC but I think technology is also important in DMC because one of the appealing factors of DMC is that it marries traditional fantasy means of combat (devil arms, swords etc) with modern means (guns, Red Queen etc).
I thinkit would be cool for Dante to talk smack with another antagonist. [
If they go with the "human" type antagonist for future DMC games (like an evil version of Lady) then you probably have to start incorporating in sorcerery/miracles/magics in the story for the character to compete with Dante. So basically Father Alexander Anderson. Either that or you go the other route and focus on sci fi stuff like MGR and Senator Armstrong. I think magic fits better with DMC but I think technology is also important in DMC because one of the appealing factors of DMC is that it marries traditional fantasy means of combat (devil arms, swords etc) with modern means (guns, Red Queen etc).
I thinkit would be cool for Dante to talk smack with another antagonist. [
Son Of Sparda
Member
I like the idea of a stubborn and single-minded antagonist, though I'm kinda burnt out of human antagonists so I don't know about that part.
Also, something else DMC hasn't really touched upon is the idea of having an antagonist that Dante hates so much that he wouldn't even be able to control himself whenever he sees him. Imagine the guy being so despicable that Dante would be the one who wants to kill him no matter what or who gets hurt. And both Dante and the villain would be so strong that their fight with each other would create chaos and disaster in the surrounding environment.
I think that might be a cool thing to see.
Also, something else DMC hasn't really touched upon is the idea of having an antagonist that Dante hates so much that he wouldn't even be able to control himself whenever he sees him. Imagine the guy being so despicable that Dante would be the one who wants to kill him no matter what or who gets hurt. And both Dante and the villain would be so strong that their fight with each other would create chaos and disaster in the surrounding environment.
I think that might be a cool thing to see.
I kinda got that from the Berserk but that's okay
J_Macgrady
Member
I like the idea of a stubborn and single-minded antagonist, though I'm kinda burnt out of human antagonists so I don't know about that part.
Also, something else DMC hasn't really touched upon is the idea of having an antagonist that Dante hates so much that he wouldn't even be able to control himself whenever he sees him. Imagine the guy being so despicable that Dante would be the one who wants to kill him no matter what or who gets hurt. And both Dante and the villain would be so strong that their fight with each other would create chaos and disaster in the surrounding environment.
I think that might be a cool thing to see.
I kinda got that from the Berserk but that's okay
Would be dope, but I don't know. Dante activated "Don't give a fuck" mode in DMC4. This person would have to want to harm Lady/Trish or say the most disrespectful Yo Mama jokes for Dante to hate the villain that much.
Son Of Sparda
Member
Well, I was thinking that he kills one of the girls *cough* Trish *cough* and rips Nero's devil arm off so those would be the things that make Dante lose his shit. But, that most likely would cause riots among fanbase so they should probably have him do something a little bit less radical
I like the idea of a stubborn and single-minded antagonist, though I'm kinda burnt out of human antagonists so I don't know about that part.
Also, something else DMC hasn't really touched upon is the idea of having an antagonist that Dante hates so much that he wouldn't even be able to control himself whenever he sees him. Imagine the guy being so despicable that Dante would be the one who wants to kill him no matter what or who gets hurt. And both Dante and the villain would be so strong that their fight with each other would create chaos and disaster in the surrounding environment.
I think that might be a cool thing to see.
I kinda got that from the Berserk but that's okay
oh please no, we have enough angry protagonists in modern video games
and I don't want Dante to have an "on/off" switch to his temper
We need another Vergil though
Son Of Sparda
Member
But... but... I need to get my A+ quality Berserk fix from somewhere...
DAT SWEET MUSOU BOOTY THOUGH!!
I know, I know man
but with the horrible new anime, the "not" so great looking upcoming musou game
I feel like Berserk will never get a real proper treatment outside of its manga & old anime
but with the horrible new anime, the "not" so great looking upcoming musou game
I feel like Berserk will never get a real proper treatment outside of its manga & old anime
I'd hate to see Dante devolve into too much of a screaming shonen protagonist. That's what we have Nero for - giving the older Dante an antagonist he drops the playful dismissiveness he regarded the Order of the Sword with in 4 could work (especially if it's contrasted with his usual demeanour when facing rank-and-file demons), but that should come across very differently when taking into account how his character's developed.
Also, not there's much of a chance of them actually being used that way, but Trish and Lady should remain well away from the fridge. The former's death in DMC1 was more than enough in that regard, we don't need a repeat of that scene; and there's much more interesting places to take her character if the narrative can consistently remember she exists. Nero losing his arm and eye and getting cybernetic replacements would be natural character progression, though.
Son Of Sparda
Member
Yeah, I didn't really mean that he would shout and scream any chance he gets. Just hate the guy's guts so much that would attack him any chance he'd get, regardless of where they were or who was around. And the other guy should feel the same way.
Basically I just want two super power entities go at each others throat and don't give a shit about anything else.
Also, I thought it was obvious but just to make it crystal clear, I was joking about killing one of the girls and Nero losing his arm. I've stated before that I would like for the series to not be afraid of killing its characters, but they should do that at the right time. And IMO now is not that time.
It would have been so much more interesting if it wasn't just a simple-ass, by-the-books musou
I'll never understand how can everyone drop the ball so hard with this IP, when it comes to adaptations from manga.
Basically I just want two super power entities go at each others throat and don't give a shit about anything else.
Also, I thought it was obvious but just to make it crystal clear, I was joking about killing one of the girls and Nero losing his arm. I've stated before that I would like for the series to not be afraid of killing its characters, but they should do that at the right time. And IMO now is not that time.
It would have been so much more interesting if it wasn't just a simple-ass, by-the-books musou
I'll never understand how can everyone drop the ball so hard with this IP, when it comes to adaptations from manga.
CrimsonCrescendo
Banned
DMC 5 needs to:
1) Get better writers (The Nero/KYYYYYYYYRRRIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEE romance was bloody awful and Kyrie had no character to speak of beyond "caring older sister/love interest")
2) Get away from Sparda
3) Get away from "The power of Sparda"
4) Don't devolve into "More POWAH" memes with Vergil
5) Set up an actual arc for the next few games to follow instead of being self-contained in a super vague timeline
6) Have Uncle Dante come back but have interesting things for his character to do (rather than just being on clean up duty)
7) STAY THE FUCK AWAY FROM SPARDA
1) Get better writers (The Nero/KYYYYYYYYRRRIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEE romance was bloody awful and Kyrie had no character to speak of beyond "caring older sister/love interest")
2) Get away from Sparda
3) Get away from "The power of Sparda"
4) Don't devolve into "More POWAH" memes with Vergil
5) Set up an actual arc for the next few games to follow instead of being self-contained in a super vague timeline
6) Have Uncle Dante come back but have interesting things for his character to do (rather than just being on clean up duty)
7) STAY THE FUCK AWAY FROM SPARDA
Hell naw son...
That's now as iconic as Dante saying "jackpot".
Yeah if Vergil returns I want to see more depth in the character. But at the same time I still want the classic lines like "now I'm a LITTLE motivated!"
CrimsonCrescendo
Banned
Hey, that's all in good fun! Let's just not wear it out!
Son Of Sparda
Member
I want the hair thingy that Vergil does to be in. It has already reached the meme status so it would be a shame to not include it xD
*The Legendary Dark Knight will remember that*
*The Legendary Dark Knight will remember that*
Btw, I love how DMC has completely taken that nickname away from Batman. Searching it in google gives you like 20-30 DMC results for every one Batman result LMAO
Son Of Sparda
Member
Oh you are right. My bad.
Though, one could say that before DMC came along Batman used to be a "legendary" Dark Knight, right?
Though, one could say that before DMC came along Batman used to be a "legendary" Dark Knight, right?
badcrumble
Member
Freely admit that it was Alexander Anderson I was thinking of when I made my post, hahaha.
I also think that for *primary* villains they probably need to make an entry that broadens/deepens the DMC cosmology and also further clarifies Sparda's role within it by contextualizing him within a bigger picture than we've gotten so far.
1) 100% agreed. Kyrie was a cardboard cutout at best.
2) Yep.
3) Yep.
4) No! It must remain.
5) Wouldn't mind that.
6) Of course.
7) Damn straight.
As long as the next antagonist isn't another human vying for the power of Sparda, we're on the right track.
I'm an advocate of having an old god from before Mundus who can possess a human like form - someone powerful and charismatic.
The foil can make or break a game. They need to not only create a villain, but a truly marketable character.
I'm an advocate of having an old god from before Mundus who can possess a human like form - someone powerful and charismatic.
The foil can make or break a game. They need to not only create a villain, but a truly marketable character.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6H_FVqgAGdA
some light trish tech. i really should've found this eons ago but somehow never did
some light trish tech. i really should've found this eons ago but somehow never did